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Fair to Midland
Jan 13, 2010

by Cowcaster

api call girl posted:

Like, have you considered maybe that's a personal problem of yours rather than some failure of his?

No because it's literally his biggest criticism. He even admits he's horrible at making up names, I can look it up if you want but yeah he admits it.

I only know this because I followed him through his making of the last 3 Wheel of Time books.

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VAGENDA OF MANOCIDE
Aug 1, 2004

whoa, what just happened here?







College Slice

Fair to Midland posted:

No because it's literally his biggest criticism. He even admits he's horrible and making up names, I can look it up if you want but yeah he admits it.

Fantasy naming has an incredibly low bar. And you're saying for you he doesn't even clear that.

Fair to Midland
Jan 13, 2010

by Cowcaster

api call girl posted:

Fantasy naming has an incredibly low bar. And you're saying for you he doesn't even clear that.

No I'm saying he himself has said he doesn't clear that.

e: And I know anyone can call bullshit, which is fair, it's in http://www.theoryland.com/wheel-of-time-interview-search.php somewhere.

e2: Oh poo poo I didn't realize this quote site had more than one page.

quote:

“How . . .” Dalinar said. “You fell into a chasm!”
“I fell face-first, sir,” Kaladin said, “and fortunately, I’m particularly hard-headed.”

quote:

“You have quite the clever tongue on you!”
“I’ve never actually had someone’s tongue on me,” Shallan said, turning a page and not looking up, “clever or not. I’d hazard to consider it an unpleasant experience.”
“It ain’t so bad,” Gaz said.”

quote:

“We actually killed the thing.”
“Sad, I know,” she said, feeling depressed. “It was beautiful.”
“It would be more beautiful if it hadn't tried to eat me.”
“From my perspective,” Shallan noted, “it didn't try, it succeeded.”
“Nonsense,” Kaladin said. “It didn't manage to swallow me. Doesn't count.”

http://www.goodreads.com/work/quotes/16482835-words-of-radiance

Okay sorry I'm done, tl;dr like his stories hate his dialogue/humor. Honestly can't wait for more short stories cause I think those are his strengths.

Fair to Midland fucked around with this message at 04:24 on Apr 13, 2014

Habibi
Dec 8, 2004

We have the capability to make San Jose's first Cup Champion.

The Sharks could be that Champion.

api call girl posted:

Like, have you considered maybe that's a personal problem of yours rather than some failure of his?

Like, really? Really??

Habibi
Dec 8, 2004

We have the capability to make San Jose's first Cup Champion.

The Sharks could be that Champion.

Fair to Midland posted:

Warbreaker spoilers
“Hello, a cheerful voice said in his mind. Would you like to destroy some evil today?”
I agree with most of your thoughts regarding his humor, but I found this line so out of nowhere that it was pretty hilarious - and that was before I read Warbreaker to discover that Nightblood is an at least partially sentient sword with the 'mind' of a six year old, which for some reason made it even funnier.

wellwhoopdedooo
Nov 23, 2007

Pound Trooper!

Fair to Midland posted:

No I'm saying he himself has said he doesn't clear that.

e: And I know anyone can call bullshit, which is fair, it's in http://www.theoryland.com/wheel-of-time-interview-search.php somewhere.

e2: Oh poo poo I didn't realize this quote site had more than one page.




http://www.goodreads.com/work/quotes/16482835-words-of-radiance

Okay sorry I'm done, tl;dr like his stories hate his dialogue/humor. Honestly can't wait for more short stories cause I think those are his strengths.

Aw, come on! Gaz's line at the end is one of the few genuinely good jokes. I thought it was perfectly understated, the terrible lead-up notwithstanding.

thespaceinvader
Mar 30, 2011

The slightest touch from a Gol-Shogeg will result in Instant Death!
What's wrong with the names now? Maybe I'm just jaded to fantasy lit having terrible names (quite likely, I read a shitton of bad fantasy), but his names seem fine to me.

DarkHorse
Dec 13, 2006

Vroom Vroom, BEEP BEEP!
Nap Ghost
I just finished Warbreaker, and wow that was pretty good. I kept thinking I had things figured out, and then I would either read it spelled out like it was perfectly obvious all along or discover that I was terribly, gloriously wrong. And this was even after accidentally reading some spoilers from this thread.

NinjaDebugger
Apr 22, 2008


thespaceinvader posted:

What's wrong with the names now? Maybe I'm just jaded to fantasy lit having terrible names (quite likely, I read a shitton of bad fantasy), but his names seem fine to me.

Have to agree. Whole lot of humorless monsters in this thread, and people have dumb as hell names in real life, I don't really expect fantasy to be any better. I'm pretty happy if there are visible themes in related names and they're not just random strings of syllables.

Xachariah
Jul 26, 2004

The only names in Sanderson's books that have made me roll my eyes are Wax and Wayne in Alloy of Law. Maybe Newcago in Steelheart too? Other than that he seems mostly fine for naming, far better than many other fantasy authors I have read.

enigma105
Mar 16, 2004

His record...it's over 9-7!!!

Xachariah posted:

The only names in Sanderson's books that have made me roll my eyes are Wax and Wayne in Alloy of Law. Maybe Newcago in Steelheart too? Other than that he seems mostly fine for naming, far better than many other fantasy authors I have read.

Sanderson talks a bit about names in WoK here: http://www.writingexcuses.com/2012/06/10/writing-excuses-7-24-project-in-depth-way-of-kings/

And I'm pretty forgiving of names as well. Fantasy names are a tough thing though, since you want them to be a little alien but still "feel right". He's doing better than most D&D players at least.

NovemberMike
Dec 28, 2008

thespaceinvader posted:

What's wrong with the names now? Maybe I'm just jaded to fantasy lit having terrible names (quite likely, I read a shitton of bad fantasy), but his names seem fine to me.

Eh, he has a lot of problems with making them meaningful. When you look at Dalinar, Kaladin or Shallan nothing really comes out and says which ones are noble or where they're from. If you're doing real names then it's easy to infer something about Pierre, Rachel and Jim Bob.

Rumda
Nov 4, 2009

Moth Lesbian Comrade

NovemberMike posted:

Eh, he has a lot of problems with making them meaningful. When you look at Dalinar, Kaladin or Shallan nothing really comes out and says which ones are noble or where they're from. If you're doing real names then it's easy to infer something about Pierre, Rachel and Jim Bob.

Well the problem with those specific names is they ARE all noble vorin names.

Illuyankas
Oct 22, 2010

If he'd made the lower class names more obviously asymmetric it may have helped, but the palindrome thing is pretty useful for judging names by.

RC Cola
Aug 1, 2011

Dovie'andi se tovya sagain
Keep in mind people are now naming their children khaliseei

Fezz
Aug 31, 2001

You should feel ashamed.

Rumda posted:

Well the problem with those specific names is they ARE all noble vorin names.

It's even mentioned several times that Kaladin has a name that more closely matches the names that lighteyes have.

Rumda
Nov 4, 2009

Moth Lesbian Comrade

Fezz posted:

It's even mentioned several times that Kaladin has a name that more closely matches the names that lighteyes have.

And as bipolar as he is it shreds him up in his low moments.

The Gardenator
May 4, 2007


Yams Fan
Brandon Sanderson: Unfunny Dialogue and Horrible Names

Ugly In The Morning
Jul 1, 2010
Pillbug

Xachariah posted:

The only names in Sanderson's books that have made me roll my eyes are Wax and Wayne in Alloy of Law. Maybe Newcago in Steelheart too? Other than that he seems mostly fine for naming, far better than many other fantasy authors I have read.

I thought Wax and Wayne was kind of clever, I didn't even notice the joke until I was talking to one of my friends about it and we both realized at the same time.

Also, was anyone surprised that Sanderson had Adolin mention that he's "shat in his shardplate" in WoR? Yeah, I mean, he didn't say "poo poo" per se, but it's the first really profane thing I've seen in his books.

NinjaDebugger
Apr 22, 2008


Ugly In The Morning posted:

Also, was anyone surprised that Sanderson had Adolin mention that he's "shat in his shardplate" in WoR? Yeah, I mean, he didn't say "poo poo" per se, but it's the first really profane thing I've seen in his books.

Very, but not for the reason you think.

It's a simple reality that even happens in sports, especially things like marathons, but it's usually completely ignored in real life, let alone in fantasy novels, so it was interesting to see it become visible for a bit.

adebisi lives
Nov 11, 2009
I'm just happy this thread finally shut up about anime.

Illuyankas
Oct 22, 2010

adebisi lives posted:

I'm just happy this thread finally shut up about anime.

Szeth is the Vegeta of Stormlight

NovemberMike
Dec 28, 2008

Rumda posted:

Well the problem with those specific names is they ARE all noble vorin names.

Right, and all the names I chose are pretty traditional Christian names. I didn't go into Li or Abdul or Mtembe or Miyamoto territory.

One of the problems is that he tends to give people one word names and a last name if they're related to other people. Think about Taravingian, is that a first name or a last name? Is it supposed to be Vorin? Or the Kholin family, how is it that a large and powerful noble family like that has two branches (Dalinar and Gavilar->Elhokar)? What was Kaladain's last name? Even if he was a commoner he'd likely have something about his parent's profession unless every single person has a different first name (as it appears they do, Sanderson doesn't seem to repeat names often).

New Yorp New Yorp
Jul 18, 2003

Only in Kenya.
Pillbug

NovemberMike posted:

Or the Kholin family, how is it that a large and powerful noble family like that has two branches (Dalinar and Gavilar->Elhokar)?

Dalinar and Gavilar are brothers. Does that help?

egg tats
Apr 3, 2010

NovemberMike posted:

Right, and all the names I chose are pretty traditional Christian names. I didn't go into Li or Abdul or Mtembe or Miyamoto territory.

One of the problems is that he tends to give people one word names and a last name if they're related to other people. Think about Taravingian, is that a first name or a last name? Is it supposed to be Vorin? Or the Kholin family, how is it that a large and powerful noble family like that has two branches (Dalinar and Gavilar->Elhokar)? What was Kaladain's last name? Even if he was a commoner he'd likely have something about his parent's profession unless every single person has a different first name (as it appears they do, Sanderson doesn't seem to repeat names often).

Lots of cultures didn't do the last name thing though. Kaladin might have been just "Kaladin son of Lirin" officially, while not having a last name. The only last names we see are house names and that might be intentional.

Hell, Kaladin has a proper last name now too, it's Stormblessed.

Edit:vvvv that's not even szeth's last name! He takes it to avoid shaming his father, traditionally it would be Szeth Son <DAD'S NAME>:eng101:

egg tats fucked around with this message at 15:05 on Apr 14, 2014

Xachariah
Jul 26, 2004

NovemberMike posted:

Right, and all the names I chose are pretty traditional Christian names. I didn't go into Li or Abdul or Mtembe or Miyamoto territory.

One of the problems is that he tends to give people one word names and a last name if they're related to other people. Think about Taravingian, is that a first name or a last name? Is it supposed to be Vorin? Or the Kholin family, how is it that a large and powerful noble family like that has two branches (Dalinar and Gavilar->Elhokar)? What was Kaladain's last name? Even if he was a commoner he'd likely have something about his parent's profession unless every single person has a different first name (as it appears they do, Sanderson doesn't seem to repeat names often).

Taravangian is the king of a Vorin city-state so it's probably a Vorin name. Gavilar was the Alethi king, Elhokar was his son, Jasnah was Gavilar's daughter and Dalinar was his younger brother.

Kaladin's last name hasn't been mentioned, and as a "darkeyes" he probably doesn't have a real one for all we know.

As far as I can tell last names are only for certain lighteyes and sorta the Shin. Szeth being Szeth-son-son-Vallano.

By the way does anyone else tend to see Szeth as Jet Li? Started WoK again since it's been a while and can't shake the image.

New Yorp New Yorp
Jul 18, 2003

Only in Kenya.
Pillbug

Xachariah posted:

By the way does anyone else tend to see Szeth as Jet Li? Started WoK again since it's been a while and can't shake the image.

It's funny because Szeth is the one character who doesn't look Asian. His people have big, round Caucasian eyes.

Walh Hara
May 11, 2012

NovemberMike posted:

Right, and all the names I chose are pretty traditional Christian names. I didn't go into Li or Abdul or Mtembe or Miyamoto territory.

One of the problems is that he tends to give people one word names and a last name if they're related to other people. Think about Taravingian, is that a first name or a last name? Is it supposed to be Vorin? Or the Kholin family, how is it that a large and powerful noble family like that has two branches (Dalinar and Gavilar->Elhokar)? What was Kaladain's last name? Even if he was a commoner he'd likely have something about his parent's profession unless every single person has a different first name (as it appears they do, Sanderson doesn't seem to repeat names often).

Ehm, you lost me here. Obviously the only people with a family name are people in a renowned family. Kaladin, Lopen, Moash, Gaz and all the other darkeyes don't have a family name. Which is pretty normal, really. Commoners only got lastnames in real life in the 19th century (code Napoleon)*. Taravingian is also a first name and may or may not have a family name, but since there is no reason for us to know his family name (since he has no family) I can't say I care.

*) well, we don't really know, when there were multiple people with the same name people would automatically refer to one or the other using occupation and the name of the father and stuff and you could perhaps consider this their lastname (although this lastname could change multiple times over their lifetime and depend on circumstances/location + you could have multiple and/or nicknames), but that's besides the point. Kaladin, Moash, etc aren't referred by their occupation and/or name of the father because they're the only one with that name around, as would have happened in real life before the 19th century among commoners. If Sanderson had used the same name for 2 people, we (you) would be calling him lazy and stupid for doing so.

edit: apparantly how recent family names (for everyone, not just the elite) are varies a lot from country to country, but it was generally only after the 17th century.

Walh Hara fucked around with this message at 15:14 on Apr 14, 2014

Rumda
Nov 4, 2009

Moth Lesbian Comrade

Walh Hara posted:

Taravingian ...(since he has no family)

That at least may not be true (though who can tell with him) in the first part of WoK Jasnah soulcasts a fallen stone which was trapping a granddaughter along with servants.

Xachariah
Jul 26, 2004

senae posted:

Edit:vvvv that's not even szeth's last name! He takes it to avoid shaming his father, traditionally it would be Szeth Son <DAD'S NAME>:eng101:

Yeah Szeth-son-Naruto (okay Neturo but he's anime as gently caress OK).

Iunnrais
Jul 25, 2007

It's gaelic.

Walh Hara posted:


*) well, we don't really know, when there were multiple people with the same name people would automatically refer to one or the other using occupation and the name of the father and stuff and you could perhaps consider this their lastname (although this lastname could change multiple times over their lifetime and depend on circumstances/location + you could have multiple and/or nicknames), but that's besides the point. Kaladin, Moash, etc aren't referred by their occupation and/or name of the father because they're the only one with that name around, as would have happened in real life before the 19th century among commoners. If Sanderson had used the same name for 2 people, we (you) would be calling him lazy and stupid for doing so.

edit: apparantly how recent family names (for everyone, not just the elite) are varies a lot from country to country, but it was generally only after the 17th century.

Hrm. I was under the impression that the Domesday Book established family names for everyone in England at that time, grabbing whatever descriptor people were using at the time (like "Smith", or "Steven's Son") and locking it in forever. I don't know about the rest of Europe.

Walh Hara
May 11, 2012

Iunnrais posted:

Hrm. I was under the impression that the Domesday Book established family names for everyone in England at that time, grabbing whatever descriptor people were using at the time (like "Smith", or "Steven's Son") and locking it in forever. I don't know about the rest of Europe.

England is a very big exception (edit: if this is true).

edit: I don't think that's true. Quotes from wikipedia (horrible source, but too lazy to find primary source): "As Domesday Book normally records only the Christian name of an under-tenant, it is not possible to search for the surnames of families claiming a Norman origin; but much has been done, and is still being done, to identify the under-tenants, the great bulk of whom bear foreign Christian names."

Walh Hara fucked around with this message at 16:37 on Apr 14, 2014

404GoonNotFound
Aug 6, 2006

The McRib is back!?!?

Ithaqua posted:

It's funny because Szeth is the one character who doesn't look Asian. His people have big, round Caucasian eyes.

Clearly Szeth is Bourne-era Matt Damon.

Infinite Karma
Oct 23, 2004
Good as dead





Ithaqua posted:

It's funny because Szeth is the one character who doesn't look Asian. His people have big, round Caucasian eyes.

Pretty sure this is Szeth

Illuyankas
Oct 22, 2010

Infinite Karma posted:

Pretty sure this is Szeth



Get M. Night to direct the Stormlight movie



I'm rereading the Mistborn books, and got to the part in Final Empire where Demoux appears, and apparently he's one of the three dudes who show up looking for Hoid in Way of Kings. However I'm pretty sure someone said Stormlight Archives start off either just after or just before Alloy of Law, which is several centuries after the trilogy, so either worldhopping ignores time and space or that info was incorrect.

mythicknight
Jan 28, 2009

my thick night

Finally got Words of Radiance on Friday

Finished it this morning.

gently caress. I should have paced myself. I feel so empty now.

Tunicate
May 15, 2012

Illuyankas posted:

I'm rereading the Mistborn books, and got to the part in Final Empire where Demoux appears, and apparently he's one of the three dudes who show up looking for Hoid in Way of Kings. However I'm pretty sure someone said Stormlight Archives start off either just after or just before Alloy of Law, which is several centuries after the trilogy, so either worldhopping ignores time and space or that info was incorrect.

Pay attention to a story Rock tells in a bar in Words of Radiance.

Lobsterpillar
Feb 4, 2014

Tunicate posted:

Pay attention to a story Rock tells in a bar in Words of Radiance.

I assumed that was Hoid that he tells the story about. Time dilation, maybe?

Demoux is an Atium burner, so maybe he got chummy with Harmony and got atium feruchemy, so can do what the lord ruler does.

Ugly In The Morning
Jul 1, 2010
Pillbug

Lobsterpillar posted:

I assumed that was Hoid that he tells the story about. Time dilation, maybe?

Demoux is an Atium burner, so maybe he got chummy with Harmony and got atium feruchemy, so can do what the lord ruler does.

I thought he was a full Mistborn, since he was sick for 16 days instead of one.

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Tunicate
May 15, 2012

Lobsterpillar posted:

I assumed that was Hoid that he tells the story about. Time dilation, maybe?
Yes, it was, when someone shows up and asks what year it is, you can kinda assume there's some time wonkiness going on.

Tunicate fucked around with this message at 23:47 on Apr 14, 2014

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