Zoq-Fot-Pik posted:

I think he's pointing out that SJW types are oddly fascinated with non-games like Dear Esther, Gone Home, and assorted Twine crap.

Zoq-Fot-Pik posted:

Those people are really, really funny. In fact, here's a quote from one:


Source: http://designislaw.tumblr.com/post/70292634713/the-allegiance-of-whiteness-the-games-village-of

quote:

intellectual giant Kanye West

Zoq-Fot-Pik posted:

I think he's pointing out that SJW types are oddly fascinated with non-games like Dear Esther, Gone Home, and assorted Twine crap.

Adam Bowen posted:

I just enjoy the hysterical leftist wanna-be gender police acting like the far right morality police and attempting to exert influence over a medium that they know absolutely nothing about. Like the Parents Television Council or whatever the group was that tried to get D&D banned, since the SJWs don't enjoy video games (because they view them as "masculine" and hence driven by evil white, straight, cis-males) they are determined to destroy them. I'm not really upset because the more they shriek and flail their arms like toddlers, the faster their movement falls apart.

It's just too bad that there are real problems with gaming and gender that need to be addressed, but while the non-gamer gender police patrol the internet trying to bully everyone into submission they are actually driving people away from their cause. Game companies are starting to realize that for all the hysteria on tumblr, twitter, and web forums, these SJWs don't actually buy video games and all of their wailing has zero effect on game sales. If anything, they stir controversy that brings more attention to games with problematic messages.

Zoq-Fot-Pik posted:

I think he's pointing out that SJW types are oddly fascinated with non-games like Dear Esther, Gone Home, and assorted Twine crap.

Suspicious Dish posted:

Isn't Twine a puzzle physics platformer? How does that match with the other two?

Fag Boy Jim posted:

I like "what is a game" debates. They're cool and people learn a lot about game design through them, and they definitely don't scream at each other and not listen to anything the other party has to say.

KittyEmpress posted:

Hello I am a feminist and that means I can't play games because they are masculine. It doesn't mean that the idea of an activity being masculine and thus excluding me is bad. Just that I cannot do it because I am a feminist. That is what feminism is. We seek to destroy everything masculine. One day everyone will be forced to wear dresses. Despite the fact that the big argument feminism teaches is that anyone should be free to do any thing without being represented as a horrible rare thing.

I will just go delete all my steam games because Adam Bowen is right and no feminist actually plays games, we just scream and screech.


You are a loving idiot.

KittyEmpress posted:

Hello I am a feminist and that means I can't play games because they are masculine. It doesn't mean that the idea of an activity being masculine and thus excluding me is bad. Just that I cannot do it because I am a feminist. That is what feminism is. We seek to destroy everything masculine. One day everyone will be forced to wear dresses. Despite the fact that the big argument feminism teaches is that anyone should be free to do any thing without being represented as a horrible rare thing.

I will just go delete all my steam games because Adam Bowen is right and no feminist actually plays games, we just scream and screech.


You are a loving idiot.

Pomp posted:

Why do you hate men????

Adam Bowen posted:

Did I use the word feminist at all? Can you read?

Suspicious Dish posted:

My favorite part is how the argument gradually gets broader until you're arguing that playing tag or jump rope at recess isn't actually a game because there was no goal.

It always happens.

Fag Boy Jim posted:

I like "what is a game" debates. They're cool and people learn a lot about game design through them, and they definitely don't scream at each other and not listen to anything the other party has to say.

Supercar Gautier posted:

He's fairly directly saying that there's a large group of non-gaming "SJWs" besieging the industry from outside it in an attempt to destroy it. It's textbook gamers-crying-censorship.

Zoq-Fot-Pik posted:

I suppose it's easy to make this kind of mistake when all you have to go on is text on a screen, but I'm pretty sure he was exaggerating, using hyperbole for comedy purposes.

Fag Boy Jim posted:

Categorizing things is cool and can lead to better understanding of whatever you're trying to define, IMO. It's a lot more useful than going "Everything is a game" and congratulating yourself for being inclusive.

BARONS GAMES WHINER posted:

In a few months Zynga is going to post an almost exact clone of Adam Bowen's post that will be much more popular and make more money.

Zoq-Fot-Pik posted:

Yeah, which is why I'm definitely going to provide a sincere response to the posters above, who will definitely consider what I say from a neutral viewpoint, haha.

Pomp posted:

Well, you're right about one thing, the post was hyperbolic and funny.

Fag Boy Jim posted:

I'm going to do this, op. It's going to be a hell of a thread.

Fag Boy Jim posted:

Categorizing things is cool and can lead to better understanding of whatever you're trying to define, IMO. It's a lot more useful than going "Everything is a game" and congratulating yourself for being inclusive.

ImpAtom posted:

To realtalk:

Trying to categorize "game" is silly because for a variety of reasons "video game" is now shorthand for any form of interactive electronic media. It doesn't matter if you're talking about Pong, The Walking Dead or Cut the Rope. There was an attempt back in the 90s to classify games structured after fiction instead of goal-oriented focused experiences as "interactive fiction" but it never caught on as much and pretty much anyone you talk to except the most pretentious of the pretentious uses game as an interchangable moniker.

The only time this division comes up is when people are trying to be exclusionary for something they dislike or in rare cases when someone is being absolutely pretentious as gently caress and trying to say that Bioshock Infinite isn't a GAME, it's ART. For 90% of conversation, trying to divide it by game/not-game is pointless and just poisons the well about any actual conversation that could be had.

Zoq-Fot-Pik posted:

I suppose it's easy to make this kind of mistake when all you have to go on is text on a screen, but I'm pretty sure he was exaggerating, using hyperbole for comedy purposes.

Adam Bowen posted:

I just enjoy the hysterical leftist wanna-be gender police acting like the far right morality police and attempting to exert influence over a medium that they know absolutely nothing about. Like the Parents Television Council or whatever the group was that tried to get D&D banned, since the SJWs don't enjoy video games (because they view them as "masculine" and hence driven by evil white, straight, cis-males) they are determined to destroy them. I'm not really upset because the more they shriek and flail their arms like toddlers, the faster their movement falls apart.

It's just too bad that there are real problems with gaming and gender that need to be addressed, but while the non-gamer gender police patrol the internet trying to bully everyone into submission they are actually driving people away from their cause. Game companies are starting to realize that for all the hysteria on tumblr, twitter, and web forums, these SJWs don't actually buy video games and all of their wailing has zero effect on game sales. If anything, they stir controversy that brings more attention to games with problematic messages.

Fag Boy Jim posted:

"Video game" is, in fact, colloquially shorthand for any interactive electronic media, but from a game design standpoint, this is like going to an entomologist and saying that "bug" is shorthand for anything small and insect-y, so spiders are bugs. You may think that people interested in game design are pretentious shits, but in my experience, the real pretentious shits are the people who think they can make something Art and Transcendent in the video game format despite not knowing poo poo about video games. Case in point: Ken Levine, who tried to cram serious themes in the framework of "shoot a bunch of people in the loving face". Some semblance of game design knowledge might have clued him into the idea that "shoot a bunch of people in the face" is not a framework that lends itself well to serious, thoughtful stories.

ImpAtom posted:

I don't think people who care about video game design are pretentious shits. I'd enjoy the discussion if it was a case of going "what defines a video game" instead of (as it frequently is) a case of "(x thing I dislike) isn't a REAL game and people who like it are trying to poison the well for us REAL GAMES" There's a reason I used Bioshock Infinite for that example.

Fag Boy Jim posted:

Those people are definitely dumb as poo poo, but unfortunately people who actually are interested in game/IF design have been swept up in it. It's an unfortunate situation IMO.

Zoq-Fot-Pik posted:

Yeah. It was a decent summation of SJWs, in my opinion.

Suspicious Dish posted:

ooh, nice, let's have a semantics argument for 5 pages! I love you!

Equeen posted:

Hahaha you think dumb teens from tumblr can actually influence the gaming industry. I'm not saying SJWs don't deserve to be mocked, but keep clinging to that boogeyman.

Adam Bowen posted:

I don't believe that feminists and SJWs are that similar.

Fag Boy Jim posted:

"Video game" is, in fact, colloquially shorthand for any interactive electronic media, but from a game design standpoint, this is like going to an entomologist and saying that "bug" is shorthand for anything small and insect-y, so spiders are bugs. You may think that people interested in game design are pretentious shits, but in my experience, the real pretentious shits are the people who think they can make something Art and Transcendent in the video game format despite not knowing poo poo about video games. Case in point: Ken Levine, who tried to cram serious themes in the framework of "shoot a bunch of people in the loving face". Some semblance of game design knowledge might have clued him into the idea that "shoot a bunch of people in the face" is not a framework that lends itself well to serious, thoughtful stories.

Pomp posted:

I agree with you to a degree, but a lot of unbearable idiots get really upset when someones tries to handle serious themes in a manner that doesn't involve killing dudes or >use FORK on MOP.

Every bad post in RPS Comments Section, Circa 2014 posted:

There are people who like to laugh when people who are very poor at writing and design try to hamfistedly write about serious themes in interactive media.

Pomp posted:

I agree with you to a degree, but a lot of unbearable idiots get really upset when someones tries to handle serious themes in a manner that doesn't involve killing dudes or >use FORK on MOP.

edit:Apparently we completely agree on this.

Adam Bowen posted:

I don't believe that feminists and SJWs are that similar.

A Yolo Wizard posted:

Pomp posted:

Says every goon until they say something that makes them uncomfortable, or just flat out disagree with, then they're just another crazy SJW.

Zoq-Fot-Pik posted:

Wow. You sure turned that around on me. Nice one. It's almost like I am the gamers.txt, haha, I bet nobody's used that zinger yet.