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Angry Diplomat posted:Stone Giants can show up in there? They can, I saw one this game, along with cyclops...es. Cyclopes. I don't know. It was like Orc 4: Large Rock Edition.
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Apr 22, 2014 16:19
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I don't think I've ever seen that happen. I mean, you get all kinds of nasty fuckers like Orc Sorcerers/High Priests/Warlords/uniques and Ogre Mages and stuff, and I believe I've encountered Hill Giants down there, but never Stone Giants.
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Currently, I am impressed by how monstrous a Minotaur fighter of Cheibriados is. Cleared Lair, and the only really threatening thing was a herd of death yaks.
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Apr 22, 2014 16:26
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Prism posted:They can, I saw one this game, along with cyclops...es. Cyclopes. I don't know. It was like Orc 4: Large Rock Edition. Both of these are correct! Kikka posted:Currently, I am impressed by how monstrous a Minotaur fighter of Cheibriados is. Cleared Lair, and the only really threatening thing was a herd of death yaks. kaschei fucked around with this message at 16:33 on Apr 22, 2014 |
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Apr 22, 2014 16:31
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Aren't ettins scarier than stone giants? I guess stone giants are harder to kill but ettin damage seems really spiky.
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Apr 22, 2014 16:45
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Jeffrey posted:Aren't ettins scarier than stone giants? I guess stone giants are harder to kill but ettin damage seems really spiky.
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Apr 22, 2014 16:47
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Ettins are really clumsy and have no ranged attacks whatsoever, so I don't find them nearly as scary as stone giants. If an Ettin shows up early you can safely kill it via a thousand poisoned needles. Stone giants on the other hand will throw a rock right into your face if you stay in LOS. Ettins do have the potential for massive amounts of damage though, so if they get lucky suddenly your entire health bar is gone!Kikka posted:Currently, I am impressed by how monstrous a Minotaur fighter of Cheibriados is. Cleared Lair, and the only really threatening thing was a herd of death yaks. Cheibriados is an awesome god who turns you into an unstoppable juggernaut...right up until you finally find something you can't kill. Then you realize you're kind of hosed. Of course, you can always abuse slouch and step from time if things get really dicey. The most fun I had with Chei was actually a High Elf archer. I was basically a turret, slowly marching up the rooms of enemies and then gunning them down before they could even get in melee range. Being slow isn't such a big deal when nothing can reach you in the first place. Naturally I augmented my character with a lot of translocations spells and buffs so against anything I couldn't kill with one volley, I could just blink to a new position and resume the barrage. It was basically like playing as a mega imp.
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Apr 22, 2014 16:59
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Trog gifted this to me on D:4  (That's good, right? I know a great mace is what I should be looking for but at least I can use my +1 shield of protection with that!)
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Apr 22, 2014 17:10
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Yes, it is. Eveningstar is the strongest mace you can wield one-handed. The brand's a bit lackluster but I wouldn't say no to the resists it provides.
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Apr 22, 2014 17:17
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Eveningstars are pretty much the best 1-hand mace, and those stats are pretty drat good. Venom isn't as great as it could be, but it's also not bad.
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Apr 22, 2014 17:18
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Agent Kool-Aid posted:Eveningstars are pretty much the best 1-hand mace, and those stats are pretty drat good. Venom isn't as great as it could be, but it's also not bad. Better or worse than demon whips? Oka handed me an electrified demon whip and it just tears everything up, but if eveningstars are an upgrade I will keep an eye out.
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Apr 22, 2014 17:24
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It's a hard question to answer. Eveningstars have more base damage but attack with 0.7 delay, demon whips get down to 0.5 delay. The more slaying/damage added per hit, the more things will tilt in favor of the demon whip. A demon whip of electrocution with good enchantment is certainly a contender for best one-handed weapon in the game.
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Apr 22, 2014 17:30
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ctNwdO8KoM
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Apr 22, 2014 17:37
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PleasingFungus posted:The spell? yes. Also, I need to make those informative posts with more proofreading and maybe some wizlab testing and sleep. Edit: I totally mangled that. Lesser is not "At Least" or greater even. https://loom.shalott.org/learndb.html scroll of recharging When used on a wand, refills a varying number of charges. When used on a rod, will increase the rod's enchantment by 1d2, restore the rod's power, and add 1d2 magic points to its limit, up to 17. Wand limits: invis, heal, haste, fireball, tele: 9; lightning, drain: 12; fire, cold: 15; other: 24. Note that these limits apply to recharging only, not starting values. One scroll will add to # of charges between 1 and two less than the maximum number of charges, weighted to the middle of the distribution. Recharging a wand sets the charges to the lesser of x*3 or charges+1+random2avg(((x-1)*3)+1,3), where charges is the current number of charges and x is 3 for invis/fball/tele/heal/haste, 4 for lightning/drain, 5 for fire/cold, and 8 for others. "lesser of", is not "least of". LordSloth fucked around with this message at 18:00 on Apr 22, 2014 |
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Apr 22, 2014 17:51
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Do you guys mind if I steal these for the screenshots page?
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Apr 22, 2014 17:53
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Jeffrey posted:It's a hard question to answer. Eveningstars have more base damage but attack with 0.7 delay, demon whips get down to 0.5 delay. The more slaying/damage added per hit, the more things will tilt in favor of the demon whip. A demon whip of electrocution with good enchantment is certainly a contender for best one-handed weapon in the game. Evening stars also have 80% weighting towards STR, while demon whips only have 20%. You probably want to aim for whichever weapon benefits from your stats the most.
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Apr 22, 2014 17:57
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Jeffrey posted:It's a hard question to answer. Eveningstars have more base damage but attack with 0.7 delay, demon whips get down to 0.5 delay. The more slaying/damage added per hit, the more things will tilt in favor of the demon whip. A demon whip of electrocution with good enchantment is certainly a contender for best one-handed weapon in the game. It is +10, +2. Okawaru really wanted to make sure I hit (his next gift was armor with +Accuracy on it - boots I think, I am not at home and can't check here). It came with +0 damage but I dropped a scroll on it. Since I do use shields I guess I should never drop this thing.
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Apr 22, 2014 17:58
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Internet Kraken posted:Evening stars also have 80% weighting towards STR, while demon whips only have 20%. You probably want to aim for whichever weapon benefits from your stats the most. This is murky too - it's not as simple as it looks. At max str weight, dex isn't counted at all, at max dex weight, str and dex count equally. It's complicated enough that I generally choose to ignore it in favor of other factors, not sure how often it should really sway one's decision.
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Apr 22, 2014 18:16
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Cool, just had a greater naga resist like 5 banishment attempts in a row, then hit me for 41 damage the turn I read a tp scroll. God dammit  That's three characters I've lost in the lair branches this tournament. I just need one more win but I keep loving up. Jeffrey posted:This is murky too - it's not as simple as it looks. At max str weight, dex isn't counted at all, at max dex weight, str and dex count equally. It's complicated enough that I generally choose to ignore it in favor of other factors, not sure how often it should really sway one's decision. Its complicated but in the end it simply means this; an eveningstar is better for characters with high STR and a demon whip is better for characters with high DEX. Obviously there are other important factors, but if for example you had to make your own endgame weapon via enchanting scrolls and had to choose between the two you'd want to go with the one that favors your stats.
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Apr 22, 2014 18:34
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Is it worth dropping some skill into bows for the +8/+8 bow of Krishna {speed, Dex+3, sInv}? A +8/+8 bow of speed seems pretty great, but it's not a long bow, and I hadn't really planned on picking up bows at all. I'm a HOFi, so my aptitude isn't terrible (-1) and it might be nice to have ranged options outside of a pile of evocables. If I do go into bows, what's a good amount of skill to get it usable?
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Apr 22, 2014 18:34
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I'd absolutely keep that thing and train Bows up a bit; it'll be extremely handy for softening enemies up, and the egos on it are pretty sweet. Ranged weapon speed and damage (and really everything) are complicated as gently caress for some goddamn reason, but it's generally understood that your stats are Very Important; as a Hill Orc you'll have good Strength, so just throw whatever points you can spare in Bows and you'll probably be golden. It's not like you're using it as your main form of attack.Prism posted:It is +10, +2. Okawaru really wanted to make sure I hit (his next gift was armor with +Accuracy on it - boots I think, I am not at home and can't check here). It came with +0 damage but I dropped a scroll on it. Okawaru's weapon gifts heavily weight towards high accuracy bonuses, while Trog does the same for damage. It's a neat little thematic distinction - the deity of valor and prowess in arms favours finely-balanced, precise weapons, while the deity of rage and violence prefers big, brutal, destructive ones. Angry Diplomat fucked around with this message at 18:38 on Apr 22, 2014 |
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Apr 22, 2014 18:35
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Not My Leg posted:Is it worth dropping some skill into bows for the +8/+8 bow of Krishna {speed, Dex+3, sInv}? A +8/+8 bow of speed seems pretty great, but it's not a long bow, and I hadn't really planned on picking up bows at all. I'm a HOFi, so my aptitude isn't terrible (-1) and it might be nice to have ranged options outside of a pile of evocables. If I do go into bows, what's a good amount of skill to get it usable? It actually is a long bow! I would generally prefer to boost evocations but if you're not happy with your selection then Krishna is an excellent choice.
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Apr 22, 2014 18:38
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Internet Kraken posted:Cool, just had a greater naga resist like 5 banishment attempts in a row, then hit me for 41 damage the turn I read a tp scroll. God dammit For the record, since I think someone misstated it earlier, strength weighting works like this: a 0% strength weight gives equal weight to strength and dex when determining stat-based bonus damage a 50% strength weight gives three times as much value to strength as to dex (75%/25%) for damage a 100% strength weight considers only strength for damage a 0% strength weight considers only dex when determining stat-based bonus accuracy a 50% strength weight weapon gives three times as much value to dex as to strength (75%/25%) for accuracy a 100% strength weight weapon gives equal weight to strength and dexterity for accuracy kaschei fucked around with this message at 18:43 on Apr 22, 2014 |
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Apr 22, 2014 18:40
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Not My Leg posted:Is it worth dropping some skill into bows for the +8/+8 bow of Krishna {speed, Dex+3, sInv}? A +8/+8 bow of speed seems pretty great, but it's not a long bow, and I hadn't really planned on picking up bows at all. I'm a HOFi, so my aptitude isn't terrible (-1) and it might be nice to have ranged options outside of a pile of evocables. If I do go into bows, what's a good amount of skill to get it usable? I think it actually is a longbow, or at least that's what the wiki says. Check if it's 6 base damage or 3. It's probably not quite as good as a high-enchanted longbow of velocity, or piercer, but it's definitely something to consider.
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Apr 22, 2014 18:40
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loving gently caress! gently caress! First time getting 15 runes, grab the orb and run upstairs. No problems till I get to Depths:1 and then the RNG decides to drop 3 Pan lords on top of the only exit. GOD DAMMIT. Welp there goes 20 hours of my life. code:
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Apr 22, 2014 18:44
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I think speed out-damages velocity on a per-time basis although it does chew through arrows faster (since you shoot more of them).
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Apr 22, 2014 18:45
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kaschei posted:I think speed out-damages velocity on a per-time basis although it does chew through arrows faster (since you shoot more of them). I guess that'd be a good one to test, especially with the speed brand changes. I don't think running out of arrows faster is a huge problem, though I guess that depends on getting a good amount of elemental arrow drops.
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Apr 22, 2014 18:50
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Did they change the speed brand on ranged weapons? I was under the impression that since it's only on unrandarts IIRC that it was left untouched while they were reworking it on melee weapons.
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Apr 22, 2014 18:54
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megane posted:Do you guys mind if I steal these for the screenshots page? Hey sure. That's cool. Here's a less-cropped one if you want to change how I did it or something. 
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Apr 22, 2014 18:54
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Sage Grimm posted:Did they change the speed brand on ranged weapons? I was under the impression that since it's only on unrandarts IIRC that it was left untouched while they were reworking it on melee weapons. Oh no idea, I had just assumed. EDIT: Looks like it, apparently the speed brand on launchers was already 2/3 so it was just a matter of removing the damage penalty: http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a=commit;h=411bbedfe50ed36ed9394081bbcc659d93ebc5cb Jeffrey of YOSPOS fucked around with this message at 19:02 on Apr 22, 2014 |
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Apr 22, 2014 18:55
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Capt. Allah posted:loving gently caress! gently caress! I'm surprised you stuck with Okawaru for the endgame instead of switching to like Makhleb or TSO. I assume you wanted to keep the stacking for Haste + Finesse for maximum damage output?
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Apr 22, 2014 19:12
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Brannock posted:I'm surprised you stuck with Okawaru for the endgame instead of switching to like Makhleb or TSO. I assume you wanted to keep the stacking for Haste + Finesse for maximum damage output? Haste + Finesse is the exact same as Finesse for the purposes of hitting dudes with swords. Obviously different for the purposes of Getting Out of Dodge.
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Apr 22, 2014 19:14
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Jeffrey posted:It's a hard question to answer. Eveningstars have more base damage but attack with 0.7 delay, demon whips get down to 0.5 delay. The more slaying/damage added per hit, the more things will tilt in favor of the demon whip. A demon whip of electrocution with good enchantment is certainly a contender for best one-handed weapon in the game. The higher your skill and the higher the enemy's AC the better the eveningstar gets, except that there's usually enough more demon whips on a given run that you just might manage to get a better brand on one or simply use a scroll of branding to get a decent one. Jeffrey posted:I guess that'd be a good one to test, especially with the speed brand changes. I don't think running out of arrows faster is a huge problem, though I guess that depends on getting a good amount of elemental arrow drops. The big difference is that speed bows actually stack with elemental ammo while velocity bows don't appear to. Though it's entirely possible that I'm wrong there, the ranged code is a gigantic mess and I'm tired of trying to figure it out.
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Apr 22, 2014 19:16
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Fitzy Fitz posted:Hey sure. That's cool. Here's a less-cropped one if you want to change how I did it or something. Hahaa, you didn't say they were titan simulacra!
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Apr 22, 2014 19:17
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Internet Kraken posted:Cool, just had a greater naga resist like 5 banishment attempts in a row, then hit me for 41 damage the turn I read a tp scroll. God dammit Um... you know Greater Nagas are IMMUNE to hostile enchantments, right? Don't try to banish them.
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Apr 22, 2014 19:18
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Jeffrey posted:I guess that'd be a good one to test, especially with the speed brand changes. I don't think running out of arrows faster is a huge problem, though I guess that depends on getting a good amount of elemental arrow drops. I don't think running out of arrows will be a problem. I haven't shot any arrows all game, so they should be lying all over the place. Also, thanks to everyone who pointed out it was a longbow, I just took a quick glance and then forgot. Looks like I'll be training bows for a little while, then hopefully getting my first tournament win. I already have three runes, so it's just a matter of deciding when I want to take on Zot (and whether I want to die going for 15 runes again). I have three runes because I wisely decided to do Slime before I even entered Vaults. This is a pro move and not a terrible idea in every way (it is a really terrible idea). I thought I would try it because I had AC near 50, all artifact gear (no corrosion), inherent clarity, rMut and Stasis amulets, great resistances, and all the evocables. It was still a terrible idea that should not have worked. Mutation roulette question. Would you take Slow Healing 1 in exchange for inherent clarity and sInv?
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Apr 22, 2014 19:19
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Yes I would, especially if I didn't care about turncounts.
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Apr 22, 2014 19:23
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dis astranagant posted:The big difference is that speed bows actually stack with elemental ammo while velocity bows don't appear to. Though it's entirely possible that I'm wrong there, the ranged code is a gigantic mess and I'm tired of trying to figure it out. The reasoning I've heard as to why velocity bows are good is that they stack with elemental ammo, so I'd be surprised if they didn't, though I haven't even tried reading that bit of code myself.
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Apr 22, 2014 19:24
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Brannock posted:I'm surprised you stuck with Okawaru for the endgame instead of switching to like Makhleb or TSO. I assume you wanted to keep the stacking for Haste + Finesse for maximum damage output? I didn't go TSO because I got a necronomicon and a randart pain brand bardiche really early so I was pumping necromacy all game. Makhleb would have been a good idea though. If I had a potion of magic on me at the end I could have deaths doored myself or Brjoirjoigjoigjhoirhoijfs Revivification-ed myself too. In conclusion, gently caress.
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Apr 22, 2014 19:34
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scalded schlong posted:Hahaa, you didn't say they were titan simulacra! This is the first time I've used this combo, but Kiku's corpse drop with simulacrum is ridiculous.
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Apr 22, 2014 19:35
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Jeffrey posted:The reasoning I've heard as to why velocity bows are good is that they stack with elemental ammo, so I'd be surprised if they didn't, though I haven't even tried reading that bit of code myself. Well, the only thing in the code that indicates that they would also implies that an elemental bow can get its bonus shooting steel ammo but shooting steel ammo out of a flaming bow doesn't piss off Dithmenos despite a specific check for using a flaming launcher after that point. poo poo's weird, yo.
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Apr 22, 2014 19:36
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