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Bremen posted:I wish this was how the Newfoundland mission ended. I want the whale to get up and shuffle toward you for 2 turns before that hatches out of it.
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May 6, 2014 22:29
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 This, except a whale!
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May 6, 2014 23:35
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Green Intern posted:
That was what I was pretty much thinking as well.
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May 6, 2014 23:51
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Something cool I learned the last game I played, regarding panic, is that it becomes a non issue not when you fill the world with sats, but when you fill all but one. The last continent will continue to get abduction missions, but no matter which you take, panic will not rise since you completed a mission in that continent. So you can leave a continent naked, endlessly farming abductions for engineers, scientists, money and troops, and panic will remain static.
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May 7, 2014 02:46
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grimlock_master posted:Something cool I learned the last game I played, regarding panic, is that it becomes a non issue not when you fill the world with sats, but when you fill all but one. The last continent will continue to get abduction missions, but no matter which you take, panic will not rise since you completed a mission in that continent. So you can leave a continent naked, endlessly farming abductions for engineers, scientists, money and troops, and panic will remain static. This is only true on the lower difficulties. On impossible the continent-wide panic increase from the ignored missions will be greater than the panic decrease from the completed mission. I'm uncertain, but think Classic is in that same boat.
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May 7, 2014 03:50
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Jade/Guava: Have you played Shadowrun Returns, out of curiosity? I think it might make for a fun bonus feature if one of you were to play the game (on the back of a ton of X-Com expertise) and see how easy it was for you to get into it. Similar gameplay but with scripted encounters that you don't yet know in advance... show the learning process. Of course, a completely different skill system and it's much more plot-driven than X-Com, so it might not end up working.
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May 7, 2014 03:50
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Kytrarewn posted:Jade/Guava: Have you played Shadowrun Returns, out of curiosity? I played Shadowrun for the Genesis, does that count? I had assumed Returns was another attempt at a 1st person shooter, but I guess it's turn based combat from looking at it now. I have to be honest here - I obviously love the XCOM games, but the only other game anything like it that I didn't think was derivative crap was the Jagged Alliance series (1, 2 and Unfinished Business specifically). I heard the newest Jagged Alliance games were crap though and it makes a me sad snapperhead.
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May 7, 2014 04:16
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Nearly have the final mission save ready for Rookiefest. Six identical rookies, except for the pseudo-volunteer, whose stats were hacked up so he could qualify and then back down again so he's at rookie level once more. Plus five SHIVs. It might be worth it to take every single SHIV and the one Volunteer, actually.
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May 7, 2014 04:20
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GuavaMoment posted:I played Shadowrun for the Genesis, does that count? I had assumed Returns was another attempt at a 1st person shooter, but I guess it's turn based combat from looking at it now. The only similarities between XCOM and Shadowrun Returns is the combat system. Also Returns actually has a plot. 
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May 7, 2014 04:25
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Peanut3141 posted:This is only true on the lower difficulties. On impossible the continent-wide panic increase from the ignored missions will be greater than the panic decrease from the completed mission. I'm uncertain, but think Classic is in that same boat. Weird, I thought that succesful abduction missions only affected the country in which it took place. I never heard of a continent-wide panic decrease. Have you had this particular situation in classic, with more that one abduction in a continent? I played on normal, and when I had three abductions in Europe, panic stayed rock bottom.
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May 7, 2014 04:25
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grimlock_master posted:Weird, I thought that succesful abduction missions only affected the country in which it took place. I never heard of a continent-wide panic decrease. Have you had this particular situation in classic, with more that one abduction in a continent? I played on normal, and when I had three abductions in Europe, panic stayed rock bottom. I'm having trouble finding a source, but I thought I remembered reading this was a change with Enemy Within to prevent endless abduction farming. Anecdotally, I did farm until I got bored on Normal EU, but I was unable to control panic on my latest Classic Ironman EW playthrough and was forced to eventually cover my last continent.
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May 7, 2014 04:47
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And Rookiefest save is a go. Anyone that wants to take up Jade's challenge in that regard just lemme know, and I'll send you the save file. All you have to do is go into the final mission and pick your squad loadout. For that, you have five bog-standard rookies and five SHIVs, plus the Volunteer. As a note on the Volunteer. His stats have been reduced a significant amount, based on the armor and whatnot he gets, so he'll have equal Will and almost equal HP to the others. I can't alter Mobility, so you'll just have to deal with him being a tiny bit faster. That's unavoidable, given the semi-scripted nature of the final mission. If we're being honest? Take the SHIV. I think two is fair, personally speaking, because by default in the original you could take at least a couple of tanks. And you won't be able to heal them, since I didn't do that Foundry project. It's already set on Classic difficulty. Have fun. EDIT: There is some leftover equipment from the squad I actually used to get to that point. All Hero units, if you must know. Leave it. The jury's still out on whether or not ARC Throwers are okay, but I'm leaning towards no. And the SCOPE is definitely out. Medkits and Frag 'nades only. Sucks t'be you. Bacchante fucked around with this message at 05:22 on May 7, 2014 |
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May 7, 2014 05:06
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Is there any particular reason you can't just upload the save somewhere and post a link?
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May 7, 2014 06:31
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I've got it uploaded. Just unsure as to the policy of linking direct downloads in a thread, so I'm being cautious for the time being. Guava's already got his grubby little mitts on it.
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May 7, 2014 06:33
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Bacchante posted:I've got it uploaded. Just unsure as to the policy of linking direct downloads in a thread, so I'm being cautious for the time being. Guava's already got his grubby little mitts on it. And I'm already complaining about things! Bacchante, check PMs again please. I want a more varied group of rookies to choose from.
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May 7, 2014 06:35
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Oh, you're just impossible to please, aintcha Guava? I'll get on that.
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May 7, 2014 07:13
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Kytrarewn posted:Jade/Guava: Have you played Shadowrun Returns, out of curiosity? I think it might make for a fun bonus feature if one of you were to play the game (on the back of a ton of X-Com expertise) and see how easy it was for you to get into it. I've played all of Shadowrun Returns: Dead Mans Switch. Streamed it even. But uhm... Yeah they're not similar at all. Shadowrun is all plot and the actual game play felt very light and almost a necessary burden of telling the story. Combat is not in depth, nor offers anything particularly interesting to fiddle around with. The most I got out of the combat was playing a Street Samurai named Hans 'Hanzo' Steel, and screaming 'Hanzo Steel!' every time I ran up to someone and wailed on them with a sword.
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May 7, 2014 10:53
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The main similarity between them seems to just be the cover and action system. Sort of. Even then, it feels fairly superficial.
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May 7, 2014 11:35
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KittyEmpress posted:And yet, every page in this thread has had someone complaining that they can't manage panic, and that the panic system is bullshit and impossible. I didn't say it can't be managed. It said it's bullshit. It's bullshit because it auto-fails you two missions without letting you play them. The fact it lets you choose which two missions to auto-fail, and that the panic fallout from those is easy to math out (even though it's hidden, which is another layer of bullshit) doesn't change that. It's still auto-failing two missions without letting you play them, no matter how well you're doing on research, money or recruits.
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May 7, 2014 11:48
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DatonKallandor posted:I didn't say it can't be managed. It said it's bullshit. It's bullshit because it auto-fails you two missions without letting you play them. The fact it lets you choose which two missions to auto-fail, and that the panic fallout from those is easy to math out (even though it's hidden, which is another layer of bullshit) doesn't change that. It's still auto-failing two missions without letting you play them, no matter how well you're doing on research, money or recruits. You must've missed the 10 pages that were nothing but Snapshot v Squadsight (and ITZ v Double Tap). First attempt, Volunteer killed by Cyberdick. I hope you didn't turn stuff like Aiming angles on!
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May 7, 2014 12:29
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DatonKallandor posted:I didn't say it can't be managed. It said it's bullshit. It's bullshit because it auto-fails you two missions without letting you play them. The fact it lets you choose which two missions to auto-fail, and that the panic fallout from those is easy to math out (even though it's hidden, which is another layer of bullshit) doesn't change that. It's still auto-failing two missions without letting you play them, no matter how well you're doing on research, money or recruits. You said it was "entirely random" with "no skill component", which is straight-up wrong because making compromises between managing panic and getting your desired mission reward is a skill. Being forced to make a decision instead of being able to just do everything and get all the benefits is straight-up just good game design. Being able to snowball an early edge into being able to completely ignore the panic game is a terrible decision from a game design perspective, since now you're doing three times as many pointless mop-up missions (extra tedium), and you're removing even more difficulty from the game as you progress. The stock game already gives you too much of a cakewalk victory lap, I have no idea why anyone would think making that start earlier yet require even more missions is a good change. Also I think people are confusing "complexity" with "strategic depth", especially when they suggest that UFO Defense had a deep strategic layer. There really wasn't an awful lot of depth, despite the complexity.
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May 7, 2014 12:30
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You can check the Second Wave options in the menu, but none of them are on whatsoever. Your Volunteer actually has two more HP than he ought to! Lucky you. I couldn't lower it any further than that without instantly killing him on mission load. Whoops. EDIT: I was tempted to turn on Save Scum, however, in true XCOM fashion. But, in the end, I did not. Bacchante fucked around with this message at 12:37 on May 7, 2014 |
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May 7, 2014 12:35
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Jabor posted:You said it was "entirely random" with "no skill component", which is straight-up wrong because making compromises between managing panic and getting your desired mission reward is a skill. Being forced to make a decision instead of being able to just do everything and get all the benefits is straight-up just good game design. Being able to snowball an early edge into being able to completely ignore the panic game is a terrible decision from a game design perspective, since now you're doing three times as many pointless mop-up missions (extra tedium), and you're removing even more difficulty from the game as you progress. The stock game already gives you too much of a cakewalk victory lap, I have no idea why anyone would think making that start earlier yet require even more missions is a good change. Original Geoscape base building: For extra bases - build 1-2 hangers, 1x living quarters, 1x general stores, 1x Small Radar, 1x Large Radar. And maybe 1-2 labs/workshops. Advanced base building: Make sure that your hangers only connect once to your elevators just in case you need to defend the place. I think that's about it. Maybe expand em as needed with more quarters/stores and hyperwaves. Otherwise, you can manage the geoscape just fine with 1 Skyranger. (Crashing X-Com encountered. Going down the side apparently makes it crash when my soldiers miss. They are rookies, missing is a given.)
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May 7, 2014 12:40
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... That's a bit weird. 99.99% sure that's not me. I wonder why that's happening? As a note, how's your one SHIV doing?
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May 7, 2014 12:41
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Is it too late to sign up?  E: IS IT TOO LATE TO SIGN UP? I BROUGHT BBQ. SORRY I'M LATE, SYSTEM UPDATES AND ALL. Canuck-Errant fucked around with this message at 12:55 on May 7, 2014 |
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May 7, 2014 12:50
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I think so. I would have signed up already, but I imagine we have all the elite soldiers we'll ever need.
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May 7, 2014 13:03
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Maybe you could sign up as Rookies for Guava's death-reels.
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May 7, 2014 13:08
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Jabor posted:You said it was "entirely random" with "no skill component", which is straight-up wrong because making compromises between managing panic and getting your desired mission reward is a skill. Being forced to make a decision instead of being able to just do everything and get all the benefits is straight-up just good game design. Being able to snowball an early edge into being able to completely ignore the panic game is a terrible decision from a game design perspective, since now you're doing three times as many pointless mop-up missions (extra tedium), and you're removing even more difficulty from the game as you progress. The stock game already gives you too much of a cakewalk victory lap, I have no idea why anyone would think making that start earlier yet require even more missions is a good change. For a skilled, knowledgeable player losing EU/EW only happens on the Geoscape when the RNG screws you over on panic/interceptions. As the obsession with the "douchedisk" shows, the tactical game is near 100% controllable. Advance, activate, eliminate, repeat. Even without the somewhat exploity behaviour of churning through piles of recruits until you have broken the tactical side of the game, I can confidently play on Classic without worrying about whether I will be able to manage the tactical missions. On the other hand, in the original, you could manage the Geoscape, but not the tactical game. Unless you scum, you will lose troops to aliens that fire from the darkness and there is little you can do about it. But on the Geoscape, you can set up proper coverage, intercept UFOs before they cause terror missions and generally control the map.
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May 7, 2014 13:09
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Burzmali posted:[...] Even without the somewhat exploity behaviour of churning through piles of recruits until you have broken the tactical side of the game, I can confidently play on Classic without worrying about whether I will be able to manage the tactical missions. [...] Personally speaking, I don't see this as an exploit. In-universe, it makes complete sense. XCOM requests a pile of recruits, they get given basic marksmanship and willpower tests, and then the ones that don't make the grade are fired. It's what I'd do in the original game, too.
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May 7, 2014 13:13
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Random abduction mission/sat idea... 1) Satellites do not permanently prevent abduction missions. 2) When the aliens decide to launch abduction missions, the AI chooses six targets. 3) If you have a satellite over a target, you will get a day's advance warning of an attack. EG "Intelligence suggests that the invaders plan to attack Great Britain, Mexico, France, Japan, and two other unknown locations" 4) In the day before the attack, you can launch interceptors stationed in a region to patrol the skies over a country, and eliminate the possibility of an abduction mission appearing in that country today. Patrolling interceptors are not available to shoot down random UFOs, and may be damaged or (in very rare cases) destroyed during the abduction mission. They lower panic slightly. 5) After a day has passed, the up to three highest-panic targets without patrolling interceptors are attacked. You can still only send the skyranger to one of them. It'd make development and deployment of interceptors more important, give you greater control of which nations get attacked without eliminating abduction missions entirely, while maintaining the Sophie's choice of only being able to send the skyranger to one place. (which I really like) While you could just fill the hangars in every country to block all abductions, it'd be expensive and they take damage while patrolling so that might catch up eventually. And for me, it makes a bit more sense than a single satellite somehow blocking the aliens from attempting an attack.
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May 7, 2014 13:19
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Here. This is a save right before the final mission, with a massive crop of only rookies and five SHIVs. Just in case. As a quick note, don't promote the Volunteer and you won't have any of the tempting PSI abilities on your bar except for the Plot one. Which, again, not supposed to use. All the rookies have identical starting stats, but for some reason some picky guy wanted there to be more of them. I dunno. It's possible he meant that he wanted a wide variety of stats to choose from with his rookies, ala Not Created Equally, but it wasn't entirely clear. And, honestly, I think that going by the baseline for the new XCOM is more fitting anyhow.
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May 7, 2014 14:24
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I think a lot of people take the geoscape too literally when trying to reason out the gameplay choices. I always saw it as an abstraction of the alien war. Obviously the aliens are not just fighting one tiny yet improbably strong human force who can only field 4-6 agents to one location on the globe at a time. It's sort of a metaphor for the real war going on. I think the panic management does a good job of reinforcing the narrative.
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May 7, 2014 14:25
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Jade Star posted:I've played all of Shadowrun Returns: Dead Mans Switch. Streamed it even. But uhm... Yeah they're not similar at all. Shadowrun is all plot and the actual game play felt very light and almost a necessary burden of telling the story. Combat is not in depth, nor offers anything particularly interesting to fiddle around with. The most I got out of the combat was playing a Street Samurai named Hans 'Hanzo' Steel, and screaming 'Hanzo Steel!' every time I ran up to someone and wailed on them with a sword. OK, thanks for the clarification. I made it about 3 hours into the game shortly after release and there was no real combat focus by then, but I thought that the combat might have become more in-depth after that point. I apologize for the distraction.
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May 7, 2014 14:34
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I think anybody saying it's hard to lose a single country on classic or above as long as you know panic management has been fairly lucky*. Due to the way monthly scheduling works, the way your base layout can look and rewards can be assigned I'd say not losing a country (shouldn't lose more than one still) in the first three months definitely contains a visible luck element, moreso than rocket strays but less so than 80% shots probably? Not losing anything ever feels great, but I've learned not to have that as my goal lately since losing a single country ever is totally acceptable and statistically probable from bad luck alone. Also, something I've just experienced for the first time while playing along with the LP. Your operative can just randomly die on EXALT missions due to at least one bug: On the missions that tell you to extract the operative, the non hack-defense ones, if you extract him before killing everything enemies can off-screen kill him similar to, say, a civilian on a terror mission...you still beat the mission and get your intel, but he'll likely be listed KIA by Heavy Trauma (Unknown) upon return, even if your squad mopped everything up after he extracted. I like to think this is more of an xcom style 'feature' than a bug. It's entirely avoidable now that I know it exists, but I hate both EXALT and whichever member of the peanut gallery suggested putting the operative on the copter before just murdering everything and bringing him home with the boys. And myself for humoring them. *Disclaimer: I don't think this is a bad thing. In a game like xcom, perfection really should, and does, have a luck element attached to it. I just find it funny when anybody tries to claim that any aspect of xcom is entirely skill if you want perfection because it contains so many dice rolls everywhere, both inside and outside of missions, that perfection has to be a function of luck somewhere. Or on the opposite side when somebody tries to claim that the luck elements are bullshit or ruin the strategy elements or something, since provided enough skill all the luck elements are doing is preventing pure perfection, which you need all of never.
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May 7, 2014 14:38
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Bacchante posted:Here. This is a save right before the final mission, with a massive crop of only rookies and five SHIVs. Just in case. I think what Guava was saying is that, yes, he wanted rookies from Not Created Equally, because to be fair when he did his runs of the earlier X-Com final missions he did pick and choose the best rookies for the job.
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May 7, 2014 14:41
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In which case, in all honesty, I'd rather just give him maximum base-stat rookies. Because savescumming to get just six of them wouldn't take long at all if you were right before the final mission. I'll fix that up. EDIT: There we go. These are the top-of-the-line Rookies that you'd get if you hired 70 and fired everyone who didn't meet your exacting standards. Which is generally what I start doing every month after the Alien Base, but that's just me. Plus a few extra bog standard ones in case you want to mix and match your high-quality rookies with schmucks. Bacchante fucked around with this message at 15:02 on May 7, 2014 |
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May 7, 2014 14:47
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Canuck-Errant posted:Is it too late to sign up? TheDarkFlame posted:I think so. I would have signed up already, but I imagine we have all the elite soldiers we'll ever need. I rather doubt that Jade would turn away applications right now. I'm virtually certain he wouldn't mind getting the haikus and art at the very least. I'd say prep your applications while you wait for Jade to respond. Worst case scenario, the thread gets more haikus and we praise you for your efforts, and that's honestly a pretty great worst case scenario. More to the point, if you apply at this stage you'll end up at the back of the line, and Jade's not really losing anyone, so good luck ending up on the squad. ...At least for this run. There will be others, though. I applied like two weeks after the thread started, and I figure I'm probably still 5th in line or something, but maybe I'll be a starter on the next run.
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May 7, 2014 15:07
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Bacchante posted:Personally speaking, I don't see this as an exploit. In-universe, it makes complete sense. XCOM requests a pile of recruits, they get given basic marksmanship and willpower tests, and then the ones that don't make the grade are fired. It's what I'd do in the original game, too. edit: a word Burzmali fucked around with this message at 16:24 on May 7, 2014 |
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May 7, 2014 16:20
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Original X-Com still had plenty of disparity between troops. I had Captains who weren't allowed to get Autocannons because they were still too scrawny (I did not engage in troop screening. The aliens were good enough at cleaning out the chaff)
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May 7, 2014 16:22
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Burzmali posted:I'd consider it close as the any soldier you get in EU is very likely to survive for the entire campaign, a +15 aim bonus is better than a free scope and it doesn't take up a slot. The troops in the originals used to improve after every mission, not just at level up, so better starting soldiers had a better survival chance, but all veterans were equally decent. EDIT: Looking at it, even with the maximum stats from Not Created Equally (80 Aim, 59 Will), you'll still be getting under 50% to hit fairly consistently. The more relevant bit is the significantly increased panic resistance. Bacchante fucked around with this message at 17:32 on May 7, 2014 |
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May 7, 2014 17:27
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