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Michaellaneous posted:iirc, on one of the retsutalk they talk about that. If you superpose the models of their faces over each other it is basically the exact same. Also, both characters start their games as surly, former elite soldiers with unlikely hair and even more unlikely swords. They are accompanied by a black single dad whose design is based off of a well-known actor, who uses firearms as his primary weapon and serves as comic relief for most of the game. Also, both games start with the main characters getting off of a train in order to commit an act of sabotage. FFXIII wants to be FFVII really badly.
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May 17, 2014 18:41
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BottledBodhisvata posted:Or it would be, if the battle system doesn't poo poo the bed around that point and that game force-feeds you to a bunch of utterly bullshit HP sponge enemies that will take up every random encounter you face from here on out. I disagree. I found the level of challenge consistent. My opinion. It's actually 20 minutes, and then you also have the 3 minutes that it takes doom to kill you. It is there to prevent you from sitting in Solidarity (COM-SEN-MED) and doing 100 damage at a time for 7 hours. Supports the idea of a puzzle battle since if you're doing it wrong, you can't brute force your way through it. Also, the level cap. Not saying it isn't a valid complaint, just pointing out that you were wrong. There are actually no fetch quests in that game. They are all "Bounty" style quests where you go to a monster, and kill it. I am sure this game will be full of fetch quests, but of all the problems 13 had, that wasn't one of them.
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May 17, 2014 18:42
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Vorpal Cat posted:So while we're talking about what an emotionless blob Lighting is, why do people always say Lightning is a female version of Cloud? Cloud in FF7 was a wise cracking rear end in a top hat for most of the game not a brooding emotionless stoic, which is why is whole physiological breakdown in act 2 is such a big deal. Lightning seems way more like a female version of Squall to me. Than again as the FF7 thread has repeatedly pointed out basically no one seems to actually remember FF7 at least not in terms of characterization. There are basically two Clouds at this point, the wisecracking rear end in a top hat from the original, and the brooding obsessed loser from Kingdom Hearts and the EU. The developers have said it themselves, Lightning's design is supposed to be a female Cloud. Her personality is a different story though, and I don't think they said whether that was supposed to be his. If it is, they got it wrong anyway, because she's not much like EU Cloud either. She's about as close to that Cloud as he is to his original form.
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May 17, 2014 18:48
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Vorpal Cat posted:So while we're talking about what an emotionless blob Lighting is, why do people always say Lightning is a female version of Cloud? Cloud in FF7 was a wise cracking rear end in a top hat for most of the game not a brooding emotionless stoic, which is why is whole physiological breakdown in act 2 is such a big deal. Lightning seems way more like a female version of Squall to me. Than again as the FF7 thread has repeatedly pointed out basically no one seems to actually remember FF7 at least not in terms of characterization. There are basically two Clouds at this point, the wisecracking rear end in a top hat from the original, and the brooding obsessed loser from Kingdom Hearts and the EU. While it is true that is how Cloud acted in the game, most people just remember him as a brooding jackass and most of the recent stuff about him centers on that aspect of his character development. Hell, I got into the series at FFX and didn't go back to play FFVII for a long time. Until I did, I thought Cloud acted exactly as Lightning does in this game.
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May 17, 2014 18:53
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Vorpal Cat posted:So while we're talking about what an emotionless blob Lighting is, why do people always say Lightning is a female version of Cloud? Cloud in FF7 was a wise cracking rear end in a top hat for most of the game not a brooding emotionless stoic, which is why is whole physiological breakdown in act 2 is such a big deal. Lightning seems way more like a female version of Squall to me. Than again as the FF7 thread has repeatedly pointed out basically no one seems to actually remember FF7 at least not in terms of characterization. There are basically two Clouds at this point, the wisecracking rear end in a top hat from the original, and the brooding obsessed loser from Kingdom Hearts and the EU. pretty much what momomo says. The developers pretty much came out and said flat out that Lightning was meant to be a female version of cloud.
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May 17, 2014 18:58
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Cleretic posted:There honestly is a faint tinge of disappointment in this whole thing, at least to me. Let's forget how disappointing the previous XIII games were; This is Final Fantasy, previously King poo poo of JRPGs, doing a game whose structure seems to be a combination of Chrono Trigger and Majora's Mask, with a more active combat engine that seems to be borrowing from Kingdom Hearts. I don't think they screwed it up.  I liked all three 'XIII' games 
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May 17, 2014 19:04
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DoubleDonut posted:Also, both characters start their games as surly, former elite soldiers with unlikely hair and even more unlikely swords. They are accompanied by a black single dad whose design is based off of a well-known actor, who uses firearms as his primary weapon and serves as comic relief for most of the game. Also, both games start with the main characters getting off of a train in order to commit an act of sabotage. They even both start with a boss fight against a scorpion robot who will counter attack if you hit it while the tail is up!
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May 17, 2014 19:10
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Rirse posted:They even both start with a boss fight against a scorpion robot who will counter attack if you hit it while the tail is up! There's nothing wrong with wanting to be FFVII, I always liked its flavor. It's the closest we've ever really gotten to a big-time release of a Shadowrun type setting, in that everything is futuristic, yet magical.
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May 17, 2014 19:13
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They straight up said that they wanted lightning to be a female cloud. Which is a pretty weak idea. Instead of asking "What did people like about FFVII?" they would just copy things wholesale. I don't think many people have played FFVII in like a decade anyway. It hasn't aged very well compared to other FFs. Its amazing how differently its all characterized now, I am not surprised SE hasn't remade it, it would shatter so many kid's dreams. Then again, I am not a big FFVII fan? Its kind of in the middle of my list for FFs.
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May 17, 2014 19:24
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Gensuki posted:There are actually no fetch quests in that game. They are all "Bounty" style quests where you go to a monster, and kill it.
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May 17, 2014 19:28
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The problem with making Lightning Cloud is that Cloud was meant to be a subversion. He's only playing the part of a stone-cold badass, deep down he's a grunt who got lucky one day. A lot of people forget that. So Lightning isn't an imitation of a full-fledged character, she's an imitation of a persona.
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May 17, 2014 19:28
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I am really surprised that they gave Cloud a broken nose in this render, as if to suggest he actually was in the military and was some sort of fightman. For how boring his design is it is one thing that it has going for it that Lightning's doesn't.
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May 17, 2014 19:31
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And also probably that is a thing. http://www.p4rgaming.com/motomu-toriyama-admits-he-wants-to-marry-lightning/ How did they ever made that thing go past the stakeholders?
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May 17, 2014 19:33
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Michaellaneous posted:And also probably that is a thing. That's a parody site.
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May 17, 2014 19:37
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Lance Streetman posted:That's a parody site. It's not far from the truth, though...
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May 17, 2014 19:38
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Lance Streetman posted:That's a parody site. I know it is, but even the devs must have seen the fact that the numbers of FF are plumeting into the ground, and look for a reason.
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May 17, 2014 19:39
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Speedball posted:The problem with making Lightning Cloud is that Cloud was meant to be a subversion. He's only playing the part of a stone-cold badass, deep down he's a grunt who got lucky one day. A lot of people forget that. So Lightning isn't an imitation of a full-fledged character, she's an imitation of a persona. So imitating an imitation leads to pink-haired surly block of wood with extendo-gun/sword? That get me, you hear so many people raving on and on about how they love FFVII, but almost none of them seem to remember more than the most superficial parts of it judging from all those painfully generic portrayals of the cast and scenes that followed it. It's like reverse-nostalgia: intense love for an old product while forgetting everything that made it interesting to begin with.
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May 17, 2014 20:01
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BottledBodhisvata posted:Zeus kills his father. That's a kinda biggie. Can you point out a source for that? Pretty sure neither Hesiod nor the writers after him say he was killed. He gets imprisoned and never comes up again, sure, but not outright killed. The whole "gods can be killed" thing really seems to be more of a Norse/Shinto belief than a Greco-Roman one.
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May 17, 2014 20:08
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Geostomp posted:It's like reverse-nostalgia: intense love for an old product while forgetting everything that made it interesting to begin with. No, that's normal nostalgia. People who idolize the past tend to forget what it was actually like. I've said it before, but I wish they'd handed XIII-3 off to Yoshi-P, the guy who did the new version of FFXIV. He did such a good job on that game that I really want to see him work on more projects.
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May 17, 2014 20:23
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Lance Streetman posted:No, that's normal nostalgia. People who idolize the past tend to forget what it was actually like. I think by reverse he meant that with normal nostalgia, people forget all the things wrong with it (Sonic 1 is an awful game). Here, they forget all of the good things.
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May 17, 2014 20:25
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Gensuki posted:I think by reverse he meant that with normal nostalgia, people forget all the things wrong with it (Sonic 1 is an awful game). Here, they forget all of the good things. Exactly. From what most FFVII fan or official works of the last decade or so have, you'd think it was the most boring, angst-stuffed garbage to exist. If it weren't for the LP I've followed on this site, I'd never have known that it actually did have interesting and goofy things happening.
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May 17, 2014 20:30
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Speedball posted:The problem with making Lightning Cloud is that Cloud was meant to be a subversion. He's only playing the part of a stone-cold badass, deep down he's a grunt who got lucky one day. A lot of people forget that. So Lightning isn't an imitation of a full-fledged character, she's an imitation of a persona. Yeah, but all the teenage 'fans' of FFVII don't get the whole subversive element and just take him at face value and love it. Which in turn just lead to the developers abandoning that element entirely. Like some kind of Poe's Law thing. As I recall, Kojima ran into similar problems with people not 'getting' Solid Snake?
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May 17, 2014 20:48
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DoubleDonut posted:Also, both characters start their games as surly, former elite soldiers with unlikely hair and even more unlikely swords. They are accompanied by a black single dad whose design is based off of a well-known actor, who uses firearms as his primary weapon and serves as comic relief for most of the game. Also, both games start with the main characters getting off of a train in order to commit an act of sabotage. Not to mention the first setting of the game being a sprawling neon-green city with the first boss being a giant robot scorpion.
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May 17, 2014 20:50
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4th Asclepiadean posted:Can you point out a source for that? Pretty sure neither Hesiod nor the writers after him say he was killed. He gets imprisoned and never comes up again, sure, but not outright killed. I don't think I could, but that's what I understood to be the common myth of Zeus? That his father ate his children in turn because one was prophecised to kill him, Zeus's mother saves him by swapping him with a stone... Then again, there's a similar myth related to the birth of Krishna in Hindu tradition so perhaps it's an archetype rather than a specific belief.
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May 17, 2014 20:55
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BottledBodhisvata posted:I don't think I could, but that's what I understood to be the common myth of Zeus? That his father ate his children in turn because one was prophecised to kill him, Zeus's mother saves him by swapping him with a stone... Death of a deity I would think is a pretty common in mythology when it concerns gods of a pantheon. I don't think I've ever even heard of a monotheistic belief where that particular god died. (not counting figurative Jesus deaths.)
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May 17, 2014 20:58
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BottledBodhisvata posted:I don't think I could, but that's what I understood to be the common myth of Zeus? That his father ate his children in turn because one was prophecised to kill him, Zeus's mother saves him by swapping him with a stone... I thought it was just that Zeus would overthrow him, not kill. I thought the Greek pantheon was capable of feeling pain, being imprisoned, tortured, but not die. The titans, like Prometheus were immortal but tortured. He was chained to a rock and had his liver eaten daily, but it'd regenerate eternally. I know our livers regenerate fairly fast, but not to that type of damage.
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May 17, 2014 21:07
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FeyerbrandX posted:I thought it was just that Zeus would overthrow him, not kill. I thought the Greek pantheon was capable of feeling pain, being imprisoned, tortured, but not die. Greek immortals are actually fairly unique in how they cannot die. They can be "imprisoned in Tartarus," though, which is much the same thing. In fact, one of the most common archetypes among pantheon religions is a creation god or goddess braving the underworld to retrieve his/her dead mate. Isis and Osiris, Enki and Inanna, Izanami and Izanagi, Hunahpu and Xbalanque. The archetype is present in Greek myth, too, but in their case it's conducted between the very human Orpheus and Ariadne.
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May 17, 2014 22:27
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Rigged Death Trap posted:Oh yeah: So it takes them four minutes to hit all the important plot details of Final Fantasy XIII? My only real experience with FF13 was actually watching Pork Lift and his friend whose name I can't recall going through it, and I think after about fourteen episodes they still hadn't gotten out of Cocoon, as well as the tutorial sections. People said it got good after the tutorial stuff but why does it last for like ten hours? Why did that game have positively glacial pacing?
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May 17, 2014 23:34
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CARRIERHASARRIVED posted:So it takes them four minutes to hit all the important plot details of Final Fantasy XIII? My only real experience with FF13 was actually watching Pork Lift and his friend whose name I can't recall going through it, and I think after about fourteen episodes they still hadn't gotten out of Cocoon, as well as the tutorial sections. People said it got good after the tutorial stuff but why does it last for like ten hours? The original FFXIII was less a game and more a series of disparate art assets and cut scenes, because SE at that point was so horribly mismanaged that they could no longer put out a complete product even with a several-year development cycle. As a result, everything was padded and elongated to give the product some pretense of substance - it got by on name recognition, but didn't do too well in retrospect. 13-2 was a cash grab scraped together mostly using a bunch of leftover assets from its predecessor. Since a lot of the art and the gameplay was pre-made, SE got some decent returns on it despite its dismal sales. The interesting (and hilarious) thing about 13-2 and 13-3 is that they're expanding on a mythos that made never made any loving sense, because the first game was, again, just a series of barely-connected cutscenes and cliches strung together out of last-minute desperation. This results in the premise of Lightning Returns, which is "the world we live in is literally too stupid to exist." It doesn't help that Motomu Toriyama is always at the helm, whose attempts at video game writing are some of the worst in the industry even taking into account how low that particular bar has to be.
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May 17, 2014 23:56
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Oxxidation posted:The interesting (and hilarious) thing about 13-2 and 13-3 is that they're expanding on a mythos that made never made any loving sense, because the first game was, again, just a series of barely-connected cutscenes and cliches strung together out of last-minute desperation. This results in the premise of Lightning Returns, which is "the world we live in is literally too stupid to exist." It doesn't help that Motomu Toriyama is always at the helm, whose attempts at video game writing are some of the worst in the industry even taking into account how low that particular bar has to be. Thinking about this POV, it reminds me a lot of Other M. Maybe it's like the Yoshio Sakamoto thing where nobody really questions Toriyama because of how Japanese business culture is. There was obviously not a lot of incredibly positive reception to XIII, so a lot of us find it strange that 2 sequels came out of it, even from a cash-grab standpoint. Maybe it might be because Toriyama wants his project to succeed by shoving it down our throats, or possibly it's because he's trying to have the biggest balls in the room by not abandoning ship or admitting he isn't necessarily as good as he thinks he is. That's all just speculation of course though, as it's not as if we're all there at any Square Enix business meetings. Could be as simple as contractual obligations to meet whatever quota they have.
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May 18, 2014 04:38
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BottledBodhisvata posted:Welcome to Final Fantasy 13 You don't really get it. I've watched the first LP, and I've seen summaries of the first FF13. What's a cocoon? How do those robot angels work? Who made them? Who is Lightning even?
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May 18, 2014 06:29
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TheModernAmerican posted:You don't really get it. I've watched the first LP, and I've seen summaries of the first FF13. What's a cocoon? How do those robot angels work? Who made them? Who is Lightning even? All excellent questions that will never be answered.
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May 18, 2014 06:34
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TheModernAmerican posted:You don't really get it. I've watched the first LP, and I've seen summaries of the first FF13. What's a cocoon? How do those robot angels work? Who made them? Who is Lightning even? It's the character who killed an entire series of games.
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May 18, 2014 06:47
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Credit where it's due, though, the guys in charge of the music for FFXIII did a hell of a job. I love the main battle theme.
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May 18, 2014 06:47
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They also did the best version of the Chocobo Theme
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May 18, 2014 06:50
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TheModernAmerican posted:You don't really get it. I've watched the first LP, and I've seen summaries of the first FF13. What's a cocoon? How do those robot angels work? Who made them? Who is Lightning even? Cocoon was made by Lindzei because humans kept dying on pulse. This was answered in the datalog for the first game. The Robot Angels work the same way minnows/a stereo/you work. It is very complicated, and you would basically have to spend your life studying it. Sure there is probably some short answer to hold you over, but that wouldn't really answer the question. Short answer is Bhunivelze. He is God proper in this game. He made the gods (e.g. etro) and those idiots made the fal'cie and humans. The Fal'cie, as you wisely pointed out were like angels, and were meant to guide/support humans. There is no short answer for the last one so... here goes. Lightning was a cop. Her sister wandered too close to a crashed UFO and the government wanted to run some experiments on her, so she hid inside the UFO. She turned into a rock because the Angel-Mechas liked her and wanted to re-use her to clean dishes or whatever angels want humans for. Seeing this angered lightning, so she tried to kill said angel. That angel was impressed by the humans (Lightning being one of them) who so valiantly managed to annoy it kinda, so it drafted them into helping destroy the hell out of cocoon. It wanted help from puny humans because gods are lazy. It wanted cocoon to fall because it missed its mother/father and blowing up cocoon would cause so many deaths that the gates of heaven would be blown apart by the current of souls. They succeeded, but asked for a miracle, and resident crackhead god etro heard them and answered their prayers. Etro changed History to make everyone not be l'cie.In return, Lightning was drafted into being a valkyrie, which is someone who guards Valhalla, because gods are lazy and want humans to do stuff for them. Valhalla is an in-between world, and is where Etro is dying. By the way Etro is dying. Gods die very slowly. She is dying there because time does not flow in Valhalla. So she's not dying as long as time's stopped. Caius kills Etro, because while time may have stopped, her heart inside him also stopped. With etro dead, time shat itself in fear, confusion, anger, and gates. Also Chaos. This destroyed the world. Seeing as Lightning had served an angel and a demigod, Bhunivelze saw her as the most qualified human to prepare the world for the reboot. This brings us to now when lightning is "The Saviour" by virtue of being basically the last sentient being who is 1. Competent and 2. knowledgeable of what is happening. All of the old party members are one of these two, but not the other (Hope and Vanille are incompetent, Sazh and Snow don't understand all this triple god nonsense, and fang is kinda pissed I hear? Not sure.) So,  aside does this clear it up? Did I miss anything? Any names or processes that need elaboration? I love talking about this game, its plot, its characters and the timeline. Oh yes... Timelines.
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May 18, 2014 07:00
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CARRIERHASARRIVED posted:They also did the best version of the Chocobo Theme You linked to the wrong one.
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May 18, 2014 07:01
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TheModernAmerican posted:You don't really get it. I've watched the first LP, and I've seen summaries of the first FF13. What's a cocoon? How do those robot angels work? Who made them? Who is Lightning even? Respectively Cocoon is an artificial moon floating above a planet called Pulse. Inside the moon is a high-tech civilization. The Fal'cie provide sustenance and resources to the people in it. It will one day be destroyed and everyone will die which is supposed to summon Bhunivelze. Cocoon was destroyed in XIII-2 (because caius/paradox/plot), but Hope created another one and saved all the people from certain death. Robot Angels? You mean the Fal'cie? They're demigods created by the gods, either Pulse (The god, not the planet) or Lindzei. Etro, despite being a god, did not create any fal'cie. Lightning is a soldier who has a sister named Serah. She became the keeper of souls in XIII-2 because Etro said so. She apparently worked under some dude named Amodar. And uhhhhhhhh ... ... no that's all I got 
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May 18, 2014 07:06
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The T posted:You linked to the wrong one. I've never heard the lyrics that clearly before. I like the song more now.
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May 18, 2014 07:08
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The T posted:You linked to the wrong one. You really don't want to get into this debate with me. e: I seriously can't stand the FFXIII-2 Chocobo Theme even if people say no just listen to it like its a joke!!! I don't know why. CARRIERHASARRIVED fucked around with this message at 07:18 on May 18, 2014 |
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May 18, 2014 07:15
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