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DarthBlingBling
Apr 19, 2004

These were also dark times for gamers as we were shunned by others for being geeky or nerdy and computer games were seen as Childs play things, during these dark ages the whispers began circulating about a 3D space combat game called Elite

- CMDR Bald Man In A Box
Me and the missus would play the DS version in bed on occasions. Would always end with her closing the connection and accusing me of cheating.

Playing the NSMB games doesn't fair much better either.

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Somethingdumb
Nov 19, 2011

Wicked grosso, dude

darealkooky posted:

are you that guy from friends

no, I'm the other guy from friends

Scaly Haylie
Dec 25, 2004

darealkooky posted:

are you that guy from friends

He's a person in a relationship.

CJacobs
Apr 17, 2011

Reach for the moon!

Somethingdumb posted:

no, I'm the other guy from friends

"Kyle, could you BE any worse at Mario?? Hellloo?"

RoadCrewWorker
Nov 19, 2007

camels aren't so great

Somethingdumb posted:

no, I'm the other guy from friends
As a friend myself i can confirm this is correct.

Houle
Oct 21, 2010

Somethingdumb posted:

My girlfriend and I played Mario Party a few times for fun and it always went well, but we're on a break so who knows. 50:50 chance it'll either me, Meghan, Kyle and Nicole or Me, Kyle, Nicole, and someone else/the AI

I guess it depends on how competitive it gets. Truth be told what really turned from fun to trying to kill one another fairly fast was Super Mario 3D World. It would be a race between who could win the level while killing one another as many times as possible.

Lemur Crisis
May 6, 2009

What will you do?
Where can you run?
On-topic since political correctness has been mentioned in videos: This Keith effortpost is kind of really good.

Runa
Feb 13, 2011

Lemur Crisis posted:

On-topic since political correctness has been mentioned in videos: This Keith effortpost is kind of really good.

Really, really good.

Kudos, Keith.

Somethingdumb
Nov 19, 2011

Wicked grosso, dude
Thanks, guys! I really appreciate it.

Arsonist Daria
Feb 27, 2011

Requiescat in pace.
Keith, you use words all pretty.

That Far Cry 4 box art is just a huge middle finger to everyone who engages in critical analysis.

I AM GRANDO
Aug 20, 2006

Lemur Crisis posted:

On-topic since political correctness has been mentioned in videos: This Keith effortpost is kind of really good.

Keith, you're the chillest guy on the internet. You're like a pop-culture Bob Ross, calming my rear end down with the chill truth and Pea Pod the squirrel.

I don't even know what Far Cry is, but if I did I would be furious at somebody about it.

Portals
Apr 18, 2012

Lemur Crisis posted:

On-topic since political correctness has been mentioned in videos: This Keith effortpost is kind of really good.

Yeah, I really like this. I feel the same way about this kind of thing but you put it into words perfectly.

Chakan
Mar 30, 2011

Jack Gladney posted:

Keith, you're the chillest guy on the internet. You're like a pop-culture Bob Ross, calming my rear end down with the chill truth and Pea Pod the squirrel.

I don't even know what Far Cry is, but if I did I would be furious at somebody about it.

It's a game series where (near as I can recall) you're a dude stranded on a tropical island with everyone gunning for you. Survive and Escape.

And Keith's writeup is very good, thanks for sharing it man.

Carbon dioxide
Oct 9, 2012

I know this is not saying much, but that's the best post on tumblr I've ever read.

Somethingdumb
Nov 19, 2011

Wicked grosso, dude
Thanks, guys, you're the best!

Jack Gladney posted:

I don't even know what Far Cry is, but if I did I would be furious at somebody about it.

Far Cry was a really really fun shooter but fell into some pretty obvious pits in terms of the way it dealt with race/sexuality/other things. It had a lot of white savior/noble savage poo poo and the writer, Jeffrey Yohalem AKA Jeffy Yole, when confronted about the possible racist implications of the game, got really defensive in a sort of 'you just dont get my art, it's a masterpeice' kind of way.

BottledBodhisvata
Jul 26, 2013

by Lowtax
The most offensive part of Far Cry 4's cover is the guy's suit. That sort of pink should have been banned in the 80's.

EDIT:

Actually, since we're all talking about your blog post:

Keith posted:

And even if you think I’m a whiner, even if you think maybe I over think things, or that I’m TOO sensitive, or that I’m looking for reasons to be upset, take a look at who’s agreeing with you: racists, sexists, homophobes and companies. And they think you’re one of them. They think you’re one of them but you’re afraid to show it, afraid to go all out. Wouldn’t you rather hang out with a whiner?

This paragraph sets my teeth on edge. So, somebody who disagrees with you is either: racist, sexist, homophobic...or a company? A company of what? A company of heroes? A company of "problematic" people? Do you mean corporations? Because corporations aren't entities capable of racism, unless that racism is a means to create profit. gently caress, no, I wouldn't want to hang out with a whiner, and I wouldn't want to hang out with somebody who feels that it is essential we never offend anybody because god forbid, somebody's feelings get hurt. This is childish logic, it's like saying "either you're with me or you are evil". You're making broad generalizations of some sort of nebulous group of faceless creatures that could be "racists" or "sexists", a label that you can freely levy at anything or anyone to whom you can find justification for offense. I'm glad you have an intimate understanding of this imaginary enemy you have neatly created that you can tell me exactly what they think of me, personally, and the way I think and communicate.

BottledBodhisvata fucked around with this message at 01:30 on May 21, 2014

Somethingdumb
Nov 19, 2011

Wicked grosso, dude

BottledBodhisvata posted:

or a company? A company of what? A company of heroes? A company of "problematic" people? Do you mean corporations?
yeah, that kind of company

BottledBodhisvata posted:

Because corporations aren't entities capable of racism, unless that racism is a means to create profit. gently caress, no, I wouldn't want to hang out with a whiner, and I wouldn't want to hang out with somebody who feels that it is essential we never offend anybody because god forbid, somebody's feelings get hurt. This is childish logic, it's like saying "either you're with me or you are evil". You're making broad generalizations of some sort of nebulous group of faceless creatures that could be "racists" or "sexists", a label that you can freely levy at anything or anyone to whom you can find justification for offense. I'm glad you have an intimate understanding of this imaginary enemy you have neatly created that you can tell me exactly what they think of me, personally, and the way I think and communicate.
Corporations can 100% be entities capable of racism, or sexism, or homophobia. There absolutely is money in the consolidation of power and it is absolutely in their interest to preserve that status quo.

I don't think this is too hard of a logical leap to make:
If something is racist, and I call it out for being racist, who's getting angry with me over that? 1. racists 2. people who think I'm just being a whiner. Who else would be in that group? I'm not saying you're a racist, you might not be, I'm just saying that if something is racist and you're more concerned with people trying to express and overcome their own oppression, you should maybe consider who's got your back in that (because its probably a bunch of loving racists)

edit: also, earlier in the post I had also included this note

Keith posted:

*Because it lies almost entirely beyond the scope this thing (and in favor of NOT getting into a whole thing about libertarianism), I’ll reduce the complicated and vast array of grays to two key parties.
So I definitely wasn't generalizing. I was pretty careful to allow for a near endless spectrum of motivation.

Somethingdumb fucked around with this message at 02:04 on May 21, 2014

Runa
Feb 13, 2011

In America, corporations are people too. :hehe:

I AM GRANDO
Aug 20, 2006

BottledBodhisvata posted:

The most offensive part of Far Cry 4's cover is the guy's suit. That sort of pink should have been banned in the 80's.

EDIT:

Actually, since we're all talking about your blog post:


This paragraph sets my teeth on edge. So, somebody who disagrees with you is either: racist, sexist, homophobic...or a company? A company of what? A company of heroes? A company of "problematic" people? Do you mean corporations? Because corporations aren't entities capable of racism, unless that racism is a means to create profit. gently caress, no, I wouldn't want to hang out with a whiner, and I wouldn't want to hang out with somebody who feels that it is essential we never offend anybody because god forbid, somebody's feelings get hurt. This is childish logic, it's like saying "either you're with me or you are evil". You're making broad generalizations of some sort of nebulous group of faceless creatures that could be "racists" or "sexists", a label that you can freely levy at anything or anyone to whom you can find justification for offense. I'm glad you have an intimate understanding of this imaginary enemy you have neatly created that you can tell me exactly what they think of me, personally, and the way I think and communicate.

Childish thinking is actually plugging your ears and yelling "IT'S JUST A JOKE WHY CAN'T YOU TAKE A JOKE IT'S NO BIG DEAL!" when people who have experienced things you haven't try to teach you what the world looks like from their point of view. An adult can listen to another person describe his or her response to life without resorting to deaf defensiveness and yelling "your argument doesn't exist because it's hard for me to imagine what it's like to be you!"

Badger of Basra
Jul 26, 2007

Everyone get ready for the best/worst thread in Let's Play!

Akratic Method
Mar 9, 2013

It's going to pay off eventually--I'm sure of it.

Any day now.

BottledBodhisvata posted:

This is childish logic, it's like saying "either you're with me or you are evil".

I think it's supposed to be more like saying "Look, I get that you're not evil, but have you maybe noticed that you're reinforcing the ones who are and who defend jokes like this for the seriously wrong reasons? They think you're evil, and that makes them think 'yes, see, we're the silent majority!'"


Though, Keith: I will say that if you were to revise this I'd suggest taking "companies" out of the sentence. You're completely correct that companies can be racist (if the people setting or implementing their policies are) but it's also possible for them to not be racist, which makes that generalized term sit weirdly next to "racist" and "homophobe" which are groups in which, by definition, everyone shares that bigotry.

Somethingdumb
Nov 19, 2011

Wicked grosso, dude
Yeah, i already did that. It wasnt important

ChairMaster
Aug 22, 2009

by R. Guyovich
Upon seeing that cover, I felt SURE that they had to be doing it on purpose, and that this game would actually be a story about white imperialism and maybe you play as a not white guy guy this time instead of a white guy coming to save all the dumb natives. Like they had actually read all the criticism of the previous game. Apparently the dude in the suit isn't supposed to be white though, so who even knows now.

BottledBodhisvata
Jul 26, 2013

by Lowtax

Keith posted:

Try counting the amount of games in the last 10 years that was almost entirely just shooting people from the middle east.

I decided to do this. I have Wikipedia, and so I went through their listings year by year. Now, I'll admit, I tailored my search towards shooters, largely, and I took your criteria of "almost entirely...shooting people from the middle east" to heart. I'm prone to error, so I'd say it's easily possible that one or two games missed my eye, or games not featured by Wikipedia are not also included, so feel free to fill in this list with your own count. I largely had to assess which games to click on based off their titles. In lieu of playing every single game, I went through their summaries and calculated how much of the game took place in the middle east and what sort of foe were they fighting. I didn't count games that featured the Middle East as a level, but went all around the world, like a majority of games do. The game had to primarily consist of murdering Middle Easterners. So, how many games fit that criteria?

13. A very generous eleven. I can even name them all:

BattleField 2: A war with China that takes place in Kazakhstan, no idea if you end up fighting mostly Chinese or actual Kazaks.
SOCOM: US Navy Seals-- Primary action takes place in Afghanistan.
Call of Duty 4: The entire American campaign, although the game features a lot of Russian locations as well as a few others. Later games in the series don't really hover in the Middle East.
Assassin's Creed: The first game and Revelations. You could also count the two DS-spin offs of the first game, which would bring the total up to 15 then, but I'm lumping them all together for the sake of brevity.
Uncharted 3? I think you just kill a lot of non-white people in all the Uncharted games, but their nationalities are usually mixed or indeterminate.
Army of 2? This one seems to go all over the place, but a good chunk of it seemed--according to the summary--to take place in the Mideast so I dunno.
Prince of Persia: Any of them, I guess? In the one where you can't die, all the enemies are former humans which would make them Middle Eastern.
50 Cent Blood on the Sand: Bitch took my skull!
Ghost Recon Shadow Wars: I played the first...five or so missions of it and to be honest it looked like it was going to have Russians as the main villains, but it took place in the Middle East I think?
Operation Flashpoint: The Chinese also get a role in this one.
ARMA 3: An actual honest-to-God Middle Eastern Coalition, led by Iran.
Medal of Honor: The one that isn't in WW2 is in Afghanistan.
Medal of Honor: Warfighter: The other one that isn't in WW2.

No Far Cry game has featured Middle Eastern enemies. The first and third games have had indeterminate or mixed nationalities among its pirates, and the second game takes place in Africa.

Spec Ops: The Line subverts this by taking place in the UAE, but 90% of the enemies you kill are American.

The most frequent video game villain nationality is Russian, which is easily tied with the Nazis. Second up is Asia, specifically Korean and Chinese. Third most is South American countries, which are surprisingly numerous, and even though they're third most frequent, they easily dwarf the games that focus on the Mideast. I mean, this is 13 (or 15) across ten years.

So, take from that what you will.

Runa
Feb 13, 2011

Well, that sure shows us. Pack it in, outrage-outrage-outragers.

CJacobs
Apr 17, 2011

Reach for the moon!
I will say that I do dislike the "all you do in video games is be a buff white guy and shoot brown people" cliche argument because it's unbelievably not true but the rest of Keith's post seemed fine to me.

Real hurthling!
Sep 11, 2001




CJacobs posted:

I will say that I do dislike the "all you do in video games is be a buff white guy and shoot brown people" cliche argument because it's unbelievably not true

This annoyance is probably something you should fight against. While not true in an absolute sense, there is truth in the statement and posting about it in this way makes you look pedantic or perhaps deaf to hyperbole as a rhetorical device.

CJacobs
Apr 17, 2011

Reach for the moon!
I should also clarify that I don't really care about the politics of video games and just like playing them. Choosing to take a neutral stance on something that doesn't matter to you is not siding with the "wrong people". If that makes me part of the problem then whatever so be it.

edit: vvvv I didn't plan on saying anything more about it either way :thumbsup:

CJacobs fucked around with this message at 04:37 on May 21, 2014

Dark Cohomology
Nov 4, 2009

Somethingdumb posted:

Corporations can 100% be entities capable of racism, or sexism, or homophobia.

Chick-fil-a's creed:
1. We're so Christian we don't work on Sunday oh man we're so Christian
2. We hate gay people
3. Something about chicken I guess


T.G. Xarbala posted:

Well, that sure shows us. Pack it in, outrage-outrage-outragers.

Inception!

RoadCrewWorker
Nov 19, 2007

camels aren't so great
Please don't argue with CJacobs about hosed up videogame thematics if you value this thread at all.

Anyway, the linked post was a decent read. Nice work.

DecayDOA
Jun 3, 2013

As long as the times refuse to change, we're going to make a hell of a racket.
Just adding my voice to the chorus, but, yeah, good post. And as for the whole "standing neutral" thing, well, as the man said, you can't be neutral on a moving train. You're either fighting against racism/sexism/bigotry of all types or you're supporting it merely by your passive participation. That's what "systemic injustice" means.

DecayDOA fucked around with this message at 05:47 on May 21, 2014

Pladdicus
Aug 13, 2010
Mario ladies and gentlemen! Very contraversial stuff.

More superscope videos please, Yoshi's Safari is dabomb, nintendo has the best peripherals.

Akratic Method
Mar 9, 2013

It's going to pay off eventually--I'm sure of it.

Any day now.

Pladdicus posted:

More superscope videos please, Yoshi's Safari is dabomb, nintendo has the best peripherals.

When I was 12 I used to fortify my bedroom with a beanbag chair for cover and take potshots at imaginary tanks using the Super Scope. Since we never got another game that used it after Super Scope 6, I think I used it more for that than for its actual purpose as a video game peripheral.

Patter Song
Mar 26, 2010

Hereby it is manifest that during the time men live without a common power to keep them all in awe, they are in that condition which is called war; and such a war as is of every man against every man.
Fun Shoe

Real hurthling! posted:

This annoyance is probably something you should fight against. While not true in an absolute sense, there is truth in the statement and posting about it in this way makes you look pedantic or perhaps deaf to hyperbole as a rhetorical device.

Especially since you could change it to "Shooting brown guys and Russians" and end up pretty much covering everything.

BottledBodhisvata
Jul 26, 2013

by Lowtax

DecayDJK posted:

Just adding my voice to the chorus, but, yeah, good post. And as for the whole "standing neutral" thing, well, as the man said, you can't be neutral on a moving train. You're either fighting against racism/sexism/bigotry of all types or you're supporting it merely by your passive participation. That's what "systemic injustice" means.

You're either with us or against us.

I AM GRANDO
Aug 20, 2006

BottledBodhisvata posted:

You're either with us or against us.

I believe it was RUSH who said, "if you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice."

Somethingdumb
Nov 19, 2011

Wicked grosso, dude
I don't have much interesting in chastising people who would just rather get involved, but there is a problem. All I really want is for people to see the problem.

Lexical Unit
Sep 16, 2003

Lemur Crisis posted:

On-topic since political correctness has been mentioned in videos: This Keith effortpost is kind of really good.
Thank you for this, Keith. Seriously.

Mored0ts
Mar 18, 2009

BottledBodhisvata posted:

You're either with us or against us.

You're either with us or a meanie by enabling other meanies. Meanies that were never mean to you, so you don't feel directly meaned against, but that doesn't make it any less real or worth taking a stand against.

Somethingdumb posted:

All I really want is for people to see the problem.

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RBA Starblade
Apr 28, 2008

Going Home.

Games Idiot Court Jester

BottledBodhisvata posted:

You're either with us or against us.

All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.

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