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Why do 'reduce auto insurance rates by 15%' and 'Prevent unfair price increases for natural gas consumers' not get expenditure numbers? Does the NDP think they can just mandate that those numbers don't go up and the companies are just going to say "okay" and cut their prices, rather than the policy including some kind of government expenditure, either in the form of a subsidy to consumers or a subsidy to corporations?
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May 22, 2014 16:45
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Helsing posted:So the Liberals are calling for an increase in personal income taxes for people making over $150,000 while the NDP will leave person income taxes untouched. That is a pretty stark reversal from 2011 when Horwath at least called for higher taxes on people making over $250,000. Don't forget the minimum wage. Or any wage, for that matter. There is literally no mention of 'wage' in the platform, while 'job' gets 17. Apparently as long as we're all employed (thanks to job creators of course) it could be at $10/hour McJobs and it's all okay. The funny thing is that the most successful social democratic countries (Scandinavia) run their taxation system in the reverse of the way our Canadian social democrats do: they have very high personal taxes but relatively low corporate taxes (bearing in mind that all their taxes would be considered prohibitively high compared to North American levels), designed to bring corporations into the country but then get a lot of their money anyway from the salaries they pay their employees. On taxation policy Wynne's platform is closer to that model than Horwath's in this election.
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May 22, 2014 16:48
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Really bold move there.
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I didn't think it would be possible to come up with a lamer title than 2011's "Plan For Affordable Change" but I think "Plan that Makes Sense" may have done it.
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May 22, 2014 16:49
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Helsing posted:The NDP also says that they'll "boost transit investment by $350 million annually to kick start priority transit projects" and they specifically say their priorities are "the Downtown Relief Line, Scarborough transit, Clean Trains Now on the air-rail link, all-day two-way GO train services to Kitchener-Waterloo, and year-round daily GO train service to St. Catharines and Niagara Falls." Nothing about Ottawa or Eastern Ontario at all, huh? Figures. :P
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May 22, 2014 16:51
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JohnnyCanuck posted:Nothing about Ottawa or Eastern Ontario at all, huh? Figures. :P Hell, even Hudak said Ottawa and Kitchener-Waterloo LRT would continue under a P.C. government, even though he's scrapping trains in the GTHA.
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May 22, 2014 16:58
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So, uh, why are the ONDP and OLP two different parties at this point? They seem to be occupying the same ideological ground, so to speak. I mean, they are proposing slightly different programs, but I find it hard to believe that either party would be much against the milquetoast slightly-left-leaning policies the other party proposes. Why even bother splitting the centre-left vote? Just merge already. Edit: Although I guess with the Sun ad and all that, maybe Horwath's plan is to start trying to split the PC vote instead??
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May 22, 2014 17:05
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vyelkin posted:I have to say that I'm resigned to hoping it's a trainwreck because I really, really don't want vote splitting to hand Hudak a government. So... Mission accomplished?
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May 22, 2014 17:05
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vyelkin posted:Don't forget the minimum wage. Or any wage, for that matter. There is literally no mention of 'wage' in the platform, while 'job' gets 17. Apparently as long as we're all employed (thanks to job creators of course) it could be at $10/hour McJobs and it's all okay. http://www.ontariondp.ca/issues There you go, a mention of wages. Specifically that Hudak would drive them down using tired, old ideas (not specified).
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May 22, 2014 17:10
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She picked a title that invokes Common Sense Revolution. Good job! ...gently caress.
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May 22, 2014 17:13
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eXXon posted:http://www.ontariondp.ca/issues quote:Tim Hudak’s plan isn’t much different. On top of his pie-in-the-sky “million jobs” plan, he would drive your wages down using tired, old ideas that have failed for years. Hudak's Conservatives voted against Andrea Horwath’s tax credit for job creators. I like how she can't even attack Hudak for more than two sentences without swinging back into JOB CREATORS JOB CREATORS JOB CREATORS talk.
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May 22, 2014 17:29
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Yesterday Kathleen Wynne dismissed the NDP as "irrelevant" and Andrea Horwath laughed it off. Today, she has made a commitment to that irrelevance, with a platform seemingly designed to alienate everyone. NDP supporters (as extrapolated from this thread) are upset at her apparent shift to the right, with all the "job creators" talk, left-wing swing voters who don't want a Hudak government are now more likely (in my opinion) to swing back to the Liberals, and right-wing voters typically don't have a second choice anyway, but also Horwath wants to  raise corporate taxes so, good luck with that!
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May 22, 2014 17:58
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vyelkin posted:Mentions of 'family' or 'families': 15  ". gently caress you NDP.
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May 22, 2014 18:58
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CFRA in Ottawa (home to Lowell Green) has already started to call for Hudak's head. I don't know what's going on. This poll from Forum research http://www.thestar.com/news/queenspark/2014/05/22/poll_tory_cuts_and_lowkey_ndp_campaign_helping_liberals.html shows the Liberals curb-stomping everyone.
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May 22, 2014 19:17
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sbaldrick posted:CFRA in Ottawa (home to Lowell Green) has already started to call for Hudak's head. I don't know what's going on. It's interactive voice response which is traditionally unreliable in Canada though (thanks to Helsing for pointing that out). Much as I'd like the poll to be true, I don't want to fall into the Romney trap so I'll wait for other polls from other companies with other methodologies before I take too much confidence from this.
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May 22, 2014 19:20
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So was the "you'll know it when you see it" policy supposed to be in the ONDP platform or are we still waiting?
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May 22, 2014 19:37
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vyelkin posted:It's interactive voice response which is traditionally unreliable in Canada though (thanks to Helsing for pointing that out). Much as I'd like the poll to be true, I don't want to fall into the Romney trap so I'll wait for other polls from other companies with other methodologies before I take too much confidence from this. Every poll is all over the place this year. I more trust that CFRA isn't on-board with Hudak for the way the election is blowing.
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May 22, 2014 19:42
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sbaldrick posted:Every poll is all over the place this year. I more trust that CFRA isn't on-board with Hudak for the way the election is blowing. Who at CFRA is calling for Hudak's head?
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May 22, 2014 20:06
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aarp posted:So was the "you'll know it when you see it" policy supposed to be in the ONDP platform or are we still waiting? I was referring to the platform leaflets that are going out. They're being delivered to over a million homes over the next couple of days.
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May 22, 2014 20:16
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Anecdotal talk , my street of 10 houses in a NW Toronto ward has 6 NDP signs. The local candidate (not incumbent) is a cool guy though.
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May 22, 2014 20:16
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 for anyone that still had hope for the ONDP before this. But don't worry, they will totally govern from the left if elected despite campaigning from the right because that is a thing that happens.
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May 22, 2014 21:02
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I'm wondering if geese can fill us in on which parts of the ONDP platform were supposed to bring the disgruntled back into the fold..
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May 22, 2014 21:15
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Jimbozig posted:So, uh, why are the ONDP and OLP two different parties at this point? They seem to be occupying the same ideological ground, so to speak. I mean, they are proposing slightly different programs, but I find it hard to believe that either party would be much against the milquetoast slightly-left-leaning policies the other party proposes. Why even bother splitting the centre-left vote? Just merge already. A quick glance at politics south of the boarder ought to relieve you of this thought process. If we had only two parties its unlikely the Liberals would be shifting so far to the left. Even if all three parties are terrible the fact that there are three of them prevents them from doing what the Democratic party does in the States, i.e. relying that traditional left wing voters will be forced to vote for the not-Conservative. The NDP is also still theoretically the party of labour and while people who pay close attention to politics may recognize that it doesn't currently fulfill that function, I think its still the most likely of the three parties to break free of the neoliberal ideological stranglehold on politics. While I'm not sure I'll end up voting for them this time round (in fact earlier today I took a call from Rosaio Marchese's office and had to explain to them why I can't in good conscience volunteer on behalf of an ONDP candidate this cycle, despite logging quite a few hours in 2011 as a canvasser) I do think that anyone who considers themselves leftwing should remain within the ONDP fold and try to push it to the left. Polls show that even people who don't tend to vote NDP associate that party with fighting for the working poor and standing against corporate interests. Even if that perception is currently inaccurate it does make the ONDP valuable in comparison to the OLP, which is fundamentally a party oriented toward the wealthy. While it may make sense to occasionally vote strategically and not always reflexively support the ONDP, I'm still happy they exist. A two party system would only push our political spectrum even further to the right, and as long as the ONDP exists its at least possible, however remote that possibility in practice, that they will eventually shift left and return to their roots as a labour party. quote:Edit: Although I guess with the Sun ad and all that, maybe Horwath's plan is to start trying to split the PC vote instead?? It seems like roughly 20% of the electorate are swing voters between the ONDP and the OLP, while about 10% are swing voters between the ONDP and the OPC. There's also a chunk of the electorate of around 10% who could end up voting for any party, as weird as that sounds to anyone who actually follows politics (protip: a pretty substantial chunk of the electorate have a basically incoherent approach to politics and their thought processes are going to be quite alien to anyone with sufficient political interest to be reading this thread in the first place). So yeah, Horwath is trying to position herself to win voters who are outraged at the Liberals but feeling skittish about Hudak's hard right turn.
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May 22, 2014 21:22
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Literally just had the MP for Mississauga East-Streetsville come thru my condo building and say hello. I've never had that happen, it was really neat. Then again I'm originally from Burlington which is a Conservative stronghold due to Rich Old Fuckers.
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May 22, 2014 21:31
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e:
Ambrose Burnside fucked around with this message at 03:58 on May 23, 2014 |
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May 22, 2014 21:41
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brucio posted:I'm wondering if geese can fill us in on which parts of the ONDP platform were supposed to bring the disgruntled back into the fold.. It's not really my department here, but my sense is that the most disgruntled of the base are the people in and around downtown Toronto. Specific planks in the budget that I personally think the base in Toronto would be happy about are (copied from the platform doc): Stop corporate tax giveaways and close tax loopholes Bring better public transit to cities and towns across Ontario Prioritize high impact transit projects (specifically Downtown Relief Line, Clean Trains, a solution for Scarborough transit) Invest in safe and affordable childcare spaces Freeze post-secondary tuition and make student loans interest-free Expand dental benefits for children from low-income households Protect tenants by enforcing building standards and maintenance rules Help communities create bike networks and make roads safer for everyone Conduct an Environmental Assessment of pipeline projects that impact our communities Will that please them? It's not my job to know, but based on this thread, probably not. For what it's worth, it seems the base outside Toronto is pretty happy with the direction of the party. 
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May 22, 2014 22:17
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geese posted:For what it's worth, it seems the base outside Toronto is pretty happy with the direction of the party.
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May 22, 2014 22:22
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  e: Best Premier Andrea Horwath: 38 per cent Kathleen Wynne: 32 per cent Tim Hudak: 30 per cent everything is terrible Pinterest Mom fucked around with this message at 23:14 on May 22, 2014 |
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May 22, 2014 23:07
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If the PCs win, I'm quitting show business.
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May 22, 2014 23:18
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geese posted:Freeze post-secondary tuition and make student loans interest-free This isn't aimed at you in particular, but I'd really prefer if this was targeted rather than also applying to the rich and  middle class.
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May 22, 2014 23:37
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Has the NDP figured out a way to pay for all of its promises?
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May 23, 2014 03:57
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I think I've seen or heard the PC ad about 20 times today on CBC. I hope they blew all of their cash on this buy-in.
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May 23, 2014 04:00
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Mordecai posted:This isn't aimed at you in particular, but I'd really prefer if this was targeted rather than also applying to the rich and A better idea would be a OSAP forgiveness which would really jump start the economy.
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May 23, 2014 04:04
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Ipsos Reid posted:Ontario Race Tightens: Hudak PCs Slip (35%, -4), Horwath NDP Gain (28%, +4) and Wynne Liberals Stall (31%, +1) among Decided Voters
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May 23, 2014 04:34
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sbaldrick posted:A better idea would be a OSAP forgiveness which would really jump start the economy. I would not hesitate to vote NDP if they promised this.
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May 23, 2014 04:42
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Helsing posted:Nearly three quarters (72%) of Ontarians are of the opinion that ‘it is time for another provincial party to take over and run the province  I don't get that logic at all. Let's vote for the Tories because things are ok now so clearly we need a change of leadership and have someone gently caress everything up again.
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May 23, 2014 05:03
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CAPTAIN CAPSLOCK posted:
You mean the government isn't like tuna casserole night? We've been having the same tuna casserole every Thursday for the last ten years. It's time for a change! I don't like the colour of the drapes. Let's go out and buy blue drapes. It's time for a change! HackensackBackpack fucked around with this message at 05:40 on May 23, 2014 |
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May 23, 2014 05:18
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CAPTAIN CAPSLOCK posted:
Well, it's a stupid data point to begin with since you'd assume that everyone who's not voting for the OLP thinks it's time to change the governing party (to the one they support). I mean it'd be pretty funny but you're never going to see a situation where 70% intend to vote against the ruling party, but only 20% think it's time to change.
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May 23, 2014 06:22
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sbaldrick posted:A better idea would be a OSAP forgiveness which would really jump start the economy. Wouldn't that just be mostly a one-time cash infusion, though? Yes, if everyone had their loans forgiven, they would have more money each paycheque in the long-term from then on but everyone coming afterwards would still be stuck. What about something like changing the tax code to allow credits or deductions on more than just the interest paid on the loan? Something like 25-50% of the principal as well?
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May 23, 2014 14:21
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Lobok posted:What about something like changing the tax code to allow credits or deductions on more than just the interest paid on the loan? Something like 25-50% of the principal as well? I don't see how letting people take out more loan than they can afford is going to do anything but drive up the cost of tuition and related expenses like it has in the U.S. (Or, for that matter, the housing markets in both the U.S. and Canada.) Tuition rates in Ontario are not exorbitant.
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May 23, 2014 15:22
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tagesschau posted:I don't see how letting people take out more loan than they can afford is going to do anything but drive up the cost of tuition and related expenses like it has in the U.S. (Or, for that matter, the housing markets in both the U.S. and Canada.) Tuition rates in Ontario are not exorbitant. I'm not advocating that people be given higher OSAP loans, though. Just that when you pay the loan back you can claim more than the interest paid. If people want to have separate student lines of credit that's totally on them.
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May 23, 2014 15:37
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