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Handgun Phonics posted:I've been wondering lately- is there a way to get the latest versions of the Inverse World character sheets as separate .pdfs, instead of all in one long document? I'm trying to put a specific few on the table for my players, and it's a little troublesome to keep digging through a giant document to find the ones they can use each time. The IW PDF table of contents links to a download page for a document that just has the PDfs in it.
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May 23, 2014 02:17
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Something Else posted:The IW PDF table of contents links to a download page for a document that just has the PDfs in it. No, I have that one, I mean individual PDFs for each class. Rather than all 8 combined into a single 16-page document, I'm looking for 8 2-page documents. Alternatively, a tool that would make it practical to cut them up myself.
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May 23, 2014 03:48
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Handgun Phonics posted:I've been wondering lately- is there a way to get the latest versions of the Inverse World character sheets as separate .pdfs, instead of all in one long document? I'm trying to put a specific few on the table for my players, and it's a little troublesome to keep digging through a giant document to find the ones they can use each time. You can print certain pages as a PDF. CutePDF is good for that.
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May 23, 2014 06:20
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I used CutePDF and the Print command to separate the Basic Moves out of the core class PDF, I don't see a reason why it wouldn't work here. EDIT: Beaten
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May 23, 2014 06:21
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More like why is this site so hopeless infested with banners that the entire thing is blocked by all levels of adblock? Eugh. Handgun Phonics fucked around with this message at 21:39 on May 23, 2014 |
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May 23, 2014 21:36
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I think you might be at the wrong site; I can get to the download page without any problems. http://www.cutepdf.com/Products/CutePDF/writer.asp
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May 23, 2014 21:48
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Evil Mastermind posted:I think you might be at the wrong site; I can get to the download page without any problems. I followed the link, it apparently is just normally riddled with ads is all. The editor honestly works really well, to the point I'm a bit surprised.
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May 23, 2014 23:11
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zarathud posted:If I can get your final Word versions, I can insert the icons for you. I don't have PM's but I'm finishing bonds and some minor edits on the playbooks tonight, feel free to email me, mail (dot) rickf at gmail (dot) com.
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May 24, 2014 00:35
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I've been working on Pirate World with Supreme Court! Here's a preview of some stuff we did this week. Comments and criticism are appreciated, as always.
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May 24, 2014 05:54
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Thanks for posting that! Comments and criticism definitely appreciated.
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May 24, 2014 08:57
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Fenarisk posted:I don't have PM's but I'm finishing bonds and some minor edits on the playbooks tonight, feel free to email me, mail (dot) rickf at gmail (dot) com. Just sent you an e-mail.
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May 24, 2014 15:13
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So after a long downtime I finally finished my Inquisitor playbook. I made a classic version with races and alignments, and a modern version with drives and styles. Gnome7, would you be so kind as to add them to the megapost? 
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May 24, 2014 21:54
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So a while back, I mentioned a player of mine who came from a background of heavy D&D and Pathfinder gaming. In an attempt to ease him into the system, I oversaw the creation of this class idea he had, since he found the Thief not killy enough, and didn't want to deal with poisons at all. This class is anime as gently caress but I'll get to that in a moment. Anyway, I made sure that he steered away from his original idea of having a Dark Magic Wizard Who Can Fight In Close Combat And Also Stealth And Gets Backstab because of obvious reasons, so now his character is a close-combat, shadow-summoning teleporting killguy. We're still balancing the class out, and it will never truly be balanced I feel, because we're getting into debates over completely stupid poo poo. Like, he climbed a wall and was peeking in through a window, and wanted to use his shadow teleport to get into the room. It failed, and it took me like 10 minutes to convince him that "Oh it just didn't work, moving on" wasn't going to fly on a 6 minus. He REALLY didn't want to take that 1d4 fall damage. He got all pissy at taking 2 damage in the end and was like "oh well I fall and break my leg or something whatever" so I went with it and now his dexterous killguy has a broken ankle for a while. Anyway, I tell you that, to tell you this: I suppose it's due to his background, or due to narrow-sightedness during the creation of his special anime class, but he has literally no way to give himself any sort of boon outside of stealth and combat. Even classes like the base Fighter have moves that help them threaten people, or improve their weapon in some way while they have downtime. I like to do adventure things like "social dungeons", where instead of cleaning out a goblin hive or whatever, you're navigating the perils of a lord's dinner while trying to solve a murder mystery or convince a bunch of people to give you support for something. I'm fully prepared for some kind of meltdown and a wide rewrite of his character yet again and it's kind of sad. Nothing I say can convince him to just use a class like the Assassin. I've even offered to just retcon his character and let him keep his current levels and everything.
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May 24, 2014 21:55
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It sounds like you have a problematic player. You should have him read the DW guide to see if it helps him understand things at all, but given the petulant reactions I'm guessing it won't and you should probably just sever - tell him his actions are damaging everyone else's fun, not just his own.
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May 24, 2014 21:59
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I don't have a problem with his custom class or anything. It can be anime as heck. In fact, I support all classes being a little bit goofy. Our party is Wizard Judge Dredd, a Werewolf, Sub-Zero and two characters hellbent on killing the other, but neither of them know the other one is after their head. Shadow Ninja fits right in. The issue I'm having is helping him be happy while still having the same limitations, more or less, that the other players do. I don't want to cut ties because he likes the game and all, and I'm willing to work with him, but it's just getting a bit out of hand. Plus I can't really boot him out of the game because he's my roommate and we play in our living room. E: I didn't really come here to complain (even though I am), mostly just to vent and ask for advice, but between my first post and this one, he left for work so I can't get to his playbook file at the moment. If he's cool with me posting it, I'd love some feedback so we can bring it more in line with other stuff. Babe Magnet fucked around with this message at 22:11 on May 24, 2014 |
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May 24, 2014 22:08
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Social moves are a very important point of every class. A playbook without any way to interact with other players and NPCs outside of combat and stealth gets fairly boring, fairly quickly. I'd really recommend making him read the DM's Guide in the OP, see if that helps him wrap his head around the system. And also going back over his character and writing a move about intimidating dudes or pickpocketing or something.Deltasquid posted:So after a long downtime I finally finished my Inquisitor playbook. I made a classic version with races and alignments, and a modern version with drives and styles. Sure thing, buddy.
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May 24, 2014 22:13
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I think he has trouble understanding that Dungeon World is a lot closer to interactive fiction than a war game. Fiction and a good story with drama is more important than upping some numbers here and there. So when his move fails, he should see it as an opportunity for something new and exciting to happen to his character, not a failed opportunity because he had a +1 instead of a +3 or whatever. How did he fall? Did a sudden breeze of air made him stumble and just kinda slip? Did he get startled by something moving in the room? Did he try to rush things ahead as usual? All of these options provide characterization to his character and none really imply his character is too unskilled to perform the task at hand, just that the dice rolls and thus the story decided that whatever he tried turned out otherwise. gnome7 posted:Sure thing, buddy. You rock.
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May 24, 2014 22:14
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Tell him to stop arguing with the GM, straight up. That wouldn't fly in any other system. Sure, there's some interaction, player suggestions, and a bit of negotiation in DW, but that doesn't stop that there's one guy who facilitates the game for the rest. I mean, I know you Never speak the name of your move, but Deal damage is straight up a move that is part of the rules. If he's arguing with that he's breaking the rules. TheDemon fucked around with this message at 22:20 on May 24, 2014 |
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May 24, 2014 22:18
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^^^ I get what you're saying, but like, I wouldn't consider it an argument, really? My word is law, and he should know this, but I usually try to work out something with my players if they aren't super jazzed about a result. My other players are aware enough to understand that "Taking Damage" is not nearly he worst thing I can do to their characters, so any sort of negotiating is going to put them deeper into trouble. They started getting wise to this around the time our fighter want to try and get between something to avoid the bowman he pissed of, so I let him save all the damage and had the bowman shoot at a different player instead. It's just that, the "problem player" sees these penalties as 100% blanket negative in all contexts and desperately tries to avoid doing anything that doesn't make his ninja look like a cool stealthy shadow god. Yeah, for a while I felt like it was on me, like I wasn't narrating the results of his actions fairly enough, or something, but none of the other players are having the same issues he is. I even try to make the result of the same actions failing different every time. Context and fiction are super important, and it's something I always stress. I'm definitely going to go over his class again tonight before we play. I'm not going to just let him wade into something his character can't handle without being super boring for him. I'll get up some reading material for him, and hope it sinks in, but I think me and the other players are reaching our limits to just how far we can pull him away from the D&D mindset that's tripping him up. Babe Magnet fucked around with this message at 22:27 on May 24, 2014 |
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May 24, 2014 22:22
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Your player sounds problematic. Don't do any passive-aggressive bullshit to try get him to shape up, just confront him directly. If he refuses to hold up his part of the social contract boot him. That being said, this Babe Magnet posted:"Oh it just didn't work, moving on" is something to avoid. Failure should make things more interesting, rather than just throwing a wall up in front of the player. Maybe he teleports in successfully (and lands on somebody or something who'd been taking a nap who immediately raises the alarm), maybe he teleports halfway through something and ends up having to do something drastic and unstealthy to break free, maybe he teleports in to find somebody burglarizing the place who doesn't want to share 
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May 24, 2014 22:23
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Does he know that when someone rolls a 6- that the GM is supposed to pick from a list of moves and narrate them happening? I'd just tell him that straight up. "When you roll a failure, the game gives me a list of moves to make. What I pick happens. That's the rules of this game." something like that. You can even show him the list, so long as you make it absolutely explicit that it's the GM's prerogative to pick from them, not his. e: This really isn't a system problem, it's a problematic player. He's using what he perceives as leeway in the system to get away with more than he would in say, Pathfinder, but that leeway actually doesn't exist. That's where you have to shut this down. e2: And honestly, the class doesn't matter at all. Dungeon World gives enough options in Basic Moves to take care of everything social. Sure, most classes have a bit of a balance, but that's not necessary. Just leave it. TheDemon fucked around with this message at 22:29 on May 24, 2014 |
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May 24, 2014 22:24
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Tollymain posted:Your player sounds problematic. Don't do any passive-aggressive bullshit to try get him to shape up, just confront him directly. If he refuses to hold up his part of the social contract boot him. Oh, I know. What you quoted was part of me explaining that "nothing happens, continue" is something I specifically don't, and shouldn't do, but it was something he wanted to happen because he wanted to not take d4 damage. This is the kind of guy who, when told his thief (when he still played him) couldn't do something for some reason or another (I think it was the "you fudged your swing, the elf ducks and kicks you" situation I described a while back. He wanted to get out of that situation unscathed, but it was the almost-failure of his action that caused the attack in the first place) went into the rulebook and scanned it for a while and then stopped what we were doing to explain that our warrior, who kept throwing his halberd like a big awkward javelin, was literally unable to perform actions or attacks while it wasn't in his hands because the Warrior's class description includes the line "My weapon, without me, is useless. Without my weapon, I am useless", the quote lifted from the Rifleman's Creed. That's what I'm dealing with, here.
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May 24, 2014 22:31
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The best thing about Dungeon World is that fiction comes before the rules, so just shut any rules lawyering down. Sounds like this guy isn't getting it.
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May 24, 2014 22:39
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We're all kind of new to the system, some of us picking it up faster than others, so I'm not leaving out the possibility of it being mostly my fault, but I'm looking at all this I'm typing and going over my thoughts of what's happened so far and holy poo poo. Going to have a talk before tonight's game, definitely. Speaking of game rules, though, I am really loving the whole "on a 6-, mark XP" thing because it forces people to actually do things. Our Ranger was, at first, content to just sit back and react to things around him because it was safe, but when he started falling entire levels behind because he just wouldn't do anything, he began to actually play and cause things to happen, and it's been good for all of us. Babe Magnet fucked around with this message at 22:47 on May 24, 2014 |
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May 24, 2014 22:45
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Like I said, make him read the DW guide and see if that helps him understand the flow of the game. Also, don't let people with no or limited grasp of fiction first in general/DW in the specifics write up an entire class, it's bound to be terrible.
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May 24, 2014 22:48
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If you post the playbook maybe we could salvage it?
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May 24, 2014 22:49
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Letting him design his own class was a desperate attempt to actually let him have fun in the game. He seemed to hate everything about the Thief that wasn't "extra sneak attack damage". I realize now that it was a mistake, but I'm going to keep working with it because gently caress it. I'll post the playbook when he gets home in a few hours, since he's got it on his computer. I would like some help with it, yeah.
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May 24, 2014 22:53
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For the record, the thief player in my group consistently one-shots some of my boss fights when I slip up. (to the cleric) "The warmaster dodges your attack and pins you against the wall. With a thundering roar, he lifts you off your feet and boasts "I shall break you!"" "So you could say he's vulnerable to me?" "Uh... I guess?" "I shall backstab him." *rolls a 12* "Yeah I'm going to just pour all of these damage modifiers on top of each other."And then he rolls 8 + 6 + 4 damage or some poo poo like that. It happens like once per session but his hilarious critical hits always catch me off guard. and that's with just his base damage and like two advanced moves.
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May 24, 2014 23:01
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I love when my players do that, just constantly stepping on each other's toes. They're competitive and it's gotten them into a lot of trouble.
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May 24, 2014 23:06
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Babe Magnet posted:I love when my players do that, just constantly stepping on each other's toes. They're competitive and it's gotten them into a lot of trouble. He actually backstabbed the Warmaster who turned his back to him, but yeah my thief player would absolutely shank the cleric as well if given the chance. All of my players, including the good-aligned bard, seriously contemplated selling the insufferable elf wizard into slavery.
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May 24, 2014 23:11
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Even though he's kind of poo poo Being a Fan of his For example, when I used to run games for randos like that, I'd just change my language so that whenever they failed it was never because their characters were weak or incompetent or the players were wrong, it was always some suddenly revealed obstacle or barrier to be overcome. In DW DMing terms, just don't Deal Damage to him or Take Away Resources unless he chooses--or better yet, offers--to give them up as part of an Opportunity at a Price or Tell the Requirements and Ask, otherwise spam Unwelcome Truths at him. Reveal that there's magical wards that protect the room from shadow teleportation because people are so afraid of his powers or something. When he fucks up a combat roll just reveal that there was some magical charm or mirror image that he shatters, or have bodyguards jump in front of his assassination targets. Some players really want the Dark Souls experience, walking the razor thin line between life and death and stealing victory from the jaws of defeat, others just want to be terrifying infallible badasses and will throw tantrums or get passive aggressive when you contradict that narrative. The former can be bored by soft moves but get excited when they start having to make tough decisions, the latter can get discouraged or tilt when faced with hard moves but be really interesting when they feel in control of dealing with soft moves. I say give them what they want unless they ask for something new, like what someone else is having. Also I strongly recommend against showing the guy--or anyone who isn't actually going to DM--the DM chapter. Whenever I've seen that done the problem player just starts calling out every move the DM makes by name--even though that's against the DM's principals--and being an even bigger metagamer and backseat DM than they already were. It makes sense to me though, because system mastery is where D&D players think power comes from, but in DW it's just being a participant in the conversation about the fiction that power comes from. So if you tell them more about the system, you'll just be feeding that hunger for system mastery, not deemphasizing its importance.
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May 25, 2014 00:06
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First, if you want a beefy magic user that can also stealth but do cool poo poo as well as aid the group and is well balanced just have him play The Lantern from Inverse World and take some of the shadow blade poo poo. Second, I'm working on a beefy defender grizzled I've-seen-some-poo poo class, and I have a preference questions. For a main defender type move, would people find it more interesting to have a shield with choices similar to how a Fighter has their signature weapon, or a general defense option that lets you pick shield/mundane/magic tattoos/muscles/etc.
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May 25, 2014 00:16
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The second option sounds way cooler.
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May 25, 2014 00:21
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Yeah, I probably won't show him actual DM stuff. I don't want to try and force him to read anything. If anything, I'll double-down on reading that stuff again so I can interpret it to him in my own way. The issue isn't really that I want his character to fail more, it's just that, when something he doesn't like happens, he makes a big deal out of it and it bogs the game down. I'm completely fine with making every one of his failures Not Actually His Fault, but that's going to be tough in some circumstances. He strives for a rigid, inflexible internal logic in a system where it's kind of his responsibility to create that logic in the first place. For example the idea that a particular room is warded against shadow magic or whatever he actually uses will just cause him to question whether or not I'm creating situations that specifically cause him to fail. And then there goes 30 minutes I need to explain that taking away your resources is one of the things I can do to take you out of your comfort zone, that the DM guide specifically tells me to do it sometimes, etc. I'm still testing the waters to see what exactly he, and my other players of course, want out of this game, so I'm not sure where to take my DMing style to. I'm kind of taking shots in the dark this early on.
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May 25, 2014 00:26
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Fenarisk posted:First, if you want a beefy magic user that can also stealth but do cool poo poo as well as aid the group and is well balanced just have him play The Lantern from Inverse World and take some of the shadow blade poo poo. Have choices, and have players pick shield-magic tatoos-etc. as their base description like the signature weapon.
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May 25, 2014 00:26
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Not 100% sure on these yet, but starting moves for The Bulwark Living Rampart You are unbreakable of mind and body, and your ability to defend those near you is legendary. You ignore the clumsy tag on any armor you wear. Whatever it is that has turned you into a walking wall of imperviousness is unique to you: Choose 1 from the list to describe your method of defense Towering Shield, Ancient Object, Mystic Tattoos, Mazes of Scars, Giants Muscles Choose 2 enhancements for your defense Unmoving: with your feet planted firmly, you cannot be moved against your will Massive: +1 armor, but +1 weight Mighty: add messy and forceful to attacks with your method of defense Brutal: +2 damage to attacks with your method of defense Inspiring: spending hold from Defend heals the ally and you for your level Swift: when you have hold from Defend, you can never be caught off guard Even the Humble Show Off When you attempt to sway the opinions of someone or get into their good graces by playing to your mighty and stalwart nature, roll +CON. *On a 10+, they will hear you out, offer up valuable knowledge, or direct you to their superiors in a favorable manner. *On a 7-9, they also require some flagrant spectacle of strength and resilience as they see fit, the GM will tell you how. Unchained and Unfettered When you spend hold from Defend, you may leap into action and act to spend that hold on any ally you can see, no matter the obstacles or enemies that seek to harm them. *On a 12+, you may also choose an additional effect for free when you spend hold: You break the bonds or any enchantment affecting the ally Your ceaseless defense brings courage and vigor to all nearby allies You momentarily ignore a single debility of your choice Your mighty defense knocks a foe off balance, or strikes fear into their heart The Best Defense is More Defense When you Hack & Slash with your method of defense, you may roll +CON instead of +STR. *On a 12+, you also gain +1 armor forward. *On a 6 or less, you momentarily lose your method of defense in addition to whatever move the GM uses
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May 25, 2014 01:07
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Babe Magnet posted:Yeah, I probably won't show him actual DM stuff. I don't want to try and force him to read anything. If anything, I'll double-down on reading that stuff again so I can interpret it to him in my own way. The issue isn't really that I want his character to fail more, it's just that, when something he doesn't like happens, he makes a big deal out of it and it bogs the game down. I'm completely fine with making every one of his failures Not Actually His Fault, but that's going to be tough in some circumstances. He strives for a rigid, inflexible internal logic in a system where it's kind of his responsibility to create that logic in the first place. For example the idea that a particular room is warded against shadow magic or whatever he actually uses will just cause him to question whether or not I'm creating situations that specifically cause him to fail. And then there goes 30 minutes I need to explain that taking away your resources is one of the things I can do to take you out of your comfort zone, that the DM guide specifically tells me to do it sometimes, etc. I'm still testing the waters to see what exactly he, and my other players of course, want out of this game, so I'm not sure where to take my DMing style to. I'm kind of taking shots in the dark this early on. Don't do that bolded stuff, it's unnecessary and goes against the DM principles of Never Naming Your Moves and always Beginning and Ending with the Fiction. You aren't empowered to say DM stuff because of such and such DM move, those are just there to guide you and keep the game varied, punchy, and interesting. If you act as though--or, worse, believe--that you need to justify yourself in terms of rules and mechanics in order to speak and be listened to, everyone's going to follow your example and speak only in terms of rules and mechanics, and that's what the conversation will be about. It'll be Hackmaster. This, as you know by experience, sucks if you want to be playing DW. Whenever someone complains about what happens, especially to accuse the DM of all people of metagaming, stick to your guns and shut that poo poo down right there: Address the Character, Not the Player, and explain how what you said followed from the fiction, then ask what do you do. Killfuck Soulshitter must have achieved notoriety by being such an awesome badass, or maybe one of his assassin brothers or whatever must have betrayed the order by tipping off his target. Ask him who that traitor might be, and what he's gonna do. That'll deemphasize the rulesy bullshit, or the perceived competition between player and DM, and refocus the player on the fiction and the conversation.
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May 25, 2014 01:20
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Fenarisk posted:First, if you want a beefy magic user that can also stealth but do cool poo poo as well as aid the group and is well balanced just have him play The Lantern from Inverse World and take some of the shadow blade poo poo. Or the Ninja, which is basically wall to wall flipping out and killing people at range and in melee, from ahead, from behind, from above, and while walking calmly away from an explosion.
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May 25, 2014 02:21
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Fenarisk posted:Bulwark I love it! Comments: Everything you didn't copy from Signature Weapon is cool - Unmoving, Inspiring, Swift. Maybe rename 'Swift' to 'Vigilant'. The 'Massive' enhancement doesn't really make sense without a default weight or armor for your method of defense, and more specifically it doesn't make sense with Mystic Tattoos. 'Brutal' and 'Mighty' are too offensive - maybe replace 'Brutal' with 'Spiked' - things take damage (1 or 2) when they attack you. Replace 'Mighty' with 'Charging' - when you charge with your method of defense, anyone who gets in your way is tossed into the air, bull-rushed off a cliff - something like a forceful attack. If that's too offensive, you could just have 'Rebuking' and apply huge knockback to anything that attacks you. The last move feels too offensive - it's Hack & Slash but better. I feel like the class should be more reactive - shatter weapons, redirect attacks. I'm imagining some combination of moves which would goad a ton of monsters into attacking you and then allow you to redirect all their attacks into eachother while you emerge unscathed. Bounce spells off your shield, etc.
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May 25, 2014 02:24
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 Working on a thing. Based off a Boxer, Martial Artist, or any other Sports Fight Man. I like personal, class-specific currencies, and combo systems in games, so that's what the class is based around. Advanced moves, whenever they happen, will be mostly based around helping you gain Combo Points, giving you more stuff to do with your combo points, expanding your Signature Move, and helping you find dudes to punch for money. Also, punchey guys are my favorite types of fighters. E: also totally stole the Assassin "Contract Killer" thing because it's neat
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May 25, 2014 02:47
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