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Kiwi Ghost Chips posted:Innocent until proven guilty. I've stayed out of this fracas so far, but I have to ask: have you ever considered a career in nuclear reactor shielding? Because this is one of the most appalling dense things I've ever heard.
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Jun 19, 2014 21:36
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Joementum posted:There was a thread about it. Jesus Christ
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Jun 19, 2014 21:45
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Captain_Maclaine posted:I've stayed out of this fracas so far, but I have to ask: have you ever considered a career in nuclear reactor shielding? Because this is one of the most appalling dense things I've ever heard. Hey now, we should all remember that according the totally non partisan judges ruling on republicans getting caught violating what little remains if campaign finance laws quote:The plaintiffs have found a way to circumvent campaign finance laws, and that circumvention should not and cannot be condemned or restricted. Instead, it should be recognized as promoting political speech, an activity that is ingrained in our culture. quote:"This is not a recognition that quid pro quo corruption is the only source of corruption in our political system or that issue advocacy money could not be used for some corrupting purpose. Rather, the larger danger is giving government an expanded role in uprooting all forms of perceived corruption which may result in corruption of the First Amendment itself. … As other histories tell us, attempts to purify the public square lead to places like the Guillotine and the Gulag." http://talkingpointsmemo.com/muckraker/judge-shuts-down-wisconsin-john-doe
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Jun 19, 2014 21:46
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hangedman1984 posted:Isn't Slenderman the goon answer to Slenderman? He was made up by a goon wasn't he? hobbesmaster posted:Eisenhower sent advisors.
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Jun 19, 2014 21:49
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Captain_Maclaine posted:I've stayed out of this fracas so far, but I have to ask: have you ever considered a career in nuclear reactor shielding? Because this is one of the most appalling dense things I've ever heard.  As a Nuclear Engineer, I love you so much for this joke and I'm absolutely stealing it.
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Jun 19, 2014 21:58
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Fried Chicken posted:we had the news break just earlier today about evidence if coordinating and your response is "nope not happening!" Which is being investigated. quote:they have an easier time raising money because they are selling access to power they currently have, not potential power in the future They have an easier time raising money because they have a machine already in place. They have franking privileges, they have name recognition, they have the inherent publicity of being in Congress, etc. quote:a power grant that restore things prior to 1971 Correct, it would make the parade of horribles I listed earlier come true. It would give Congress power that it's never really tried to use without being slapped down before. quote:and yet the corrupt practices law was struck down post CU rather than being one of those always narrowly interpreted laws like you are claiming The point is that those earlier laws barely did anything. The campaign finance party didn't start in earnest until 1971. It's not surprising they didn't get slapped down until then. quote:because you use a federal statute that ties states adopting the federal standards as a bare minimum and tie it to funding, same as we have done everything from highway laws to the Medicaid expansion Funding for what? quote:i can't decide if you pretending that the voters really do support the things the plutocrats want is adorable in its desperation or idiotic in its time wasting. Freedom Industries was fined and went bankrupt. Not sure what you think the giant miscarriage of justice was. quote:Because the law didn't have a millionaires provision, it had public subsidies rather than limits on private contributions. And Minnesota's public financing was struck down by the court of appeals in 1994. Yes it did. It provided unequal public financing in response to an opponent's excess spending.
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Jun 19, 2014 22:15
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Kiwi Ghost Chips posted:Freedom Industries was fined and went bankrupt. Not sure what you think the giant miscarriage of justice was. They declared bankruptcy so they could get out of any and all responsibility for it. What is wrong with you?
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Jun 19, 2014 22:23
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Alter Ego posted:Malia Obama in 2036 I'm really hoping that Obama gets a spot on the Supreme Court. Just imagine it.
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Jun 19, 2014 22:27
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Dr. Arbitrary posted:I'm really hoping that Obama gets a spot on the Supreme Court. Just imagine it.
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Jun 19, 2014 22:31
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FilthyImp posted:Can he replace Clarence T-dog? That would be exquisite. Pelosi gets Scalia Obama gets Clarence
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Jun 19, 2014 22:33
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FilthyImp posted:Can he replace Clarence T-dog? That would be exquisite.
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Jun 19, 2014 22:34
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Dr. Arbitrary posted:I'm really hoping that Obama gets a spot on the Supreme Court. Just imagine it. Mr Ice Cream Glove posted:Pelosi gets Scalia
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Jun 19, 2014 22:35
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On Terra Firma posted:They declared bankruptcy so they could get out of any and all responsibility for it. What is wrong with you? He's a genuinely terrible person who has nothing better to do than troll D&D. It's a shame that Labrador lost his bid, he'd have been a hilarious Majority Leader.
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Jun 19, 2014 22:35
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Obama as a justice would finally allow the poor guy to be clear; finally, his time for delivering tens of pages of opinion will come.
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Jun 19, 2014 22:39
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On Terra Firma posted:They declared bankruptcy so they could get out of any and all responsibility for it. What is wrong with you? That's not how bankruptcy works. All the assets are sold to the creditors (like their victims), new financing is found to continue the business, and the owners lose everything.
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Jun 19, 2014 22:40
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Internet Webguy posted:While the discussion has been interesting on the last few pages, history has been made today as Texas state commissioners voted in favor of reparations. Ha ha. So what's the next step?
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Jun 19, 2014 22:41
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effectual posted:Ha ha. So what's the next step? Backpedal like crazy.
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Jun 19, 2014 22:46
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Kiwi Ghost Chips posted:That's not how bankruptcy works. All the assets are sold to the creditors (like their victims), new financing is found to continue the business, and the owners lose everything. Oh yes, surely that is what happened, and in no way whatsoever did the owners sneak as much of their assets out of the original company as possible, found another that is functionally identical after taking some minor symbolic hits, and continue with business as loving usual. quote:Freedom Industries, the company whose licorice-smelling chemical leak contaminated the tap water of 300,000 West Virginians, will cease to exist once it goes through bankruptcy, but that doesn’t mean its executives are out of the chemical business. But I'm sure I'm just imagining things here, of course. None of this skullduggery must have happened. I am not being sarcastic. You are not an idiot. Captain_Maclaine fucked around with this message at 23:03 on Jun 19, 2014 |
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Jun 19, 2014 22:52
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Captain_Maclaine posted:Oh yes, surely that is what happened, and in no way whatsoever did the owners sneak as much of their assets out of the original company, found another that is functionally identical after taking some minor symbolic hits, and continue with business as loving usual.
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Jun 19, 2014 22:56
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Captain_Maclaine posted:Oh yes, surely that is what happened, and in no way whatsoever did the owners sneak as much of their assets out of the original company, found another that is functionally identical after taking some minor symbolic hits, and continue with business as loving usual. Yeah, anyone who believes that companies who declare bankruptcy in situations like that actually end up paying anything or having their assets touched in any way is extremely naive. They have way too many ways to funnel stuff out of the company into another identical company.
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Jun 19, 2014 22:56
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ufarn posted:Yeah, thank god for the death of a potential Cheney dynasty. Can we count the Clintons as a dynasty if it's just husband and wife?
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Jun 19, 2014 23:01
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Kalman posted:If the Kochs didn't donate to Walker he'd still be taking their calls, because they agree politically and the Kochs have influence with a lot of people. Conversely, if I gave 3 million to Walker he wouldn't listen to word one because he is never going to advocate for single payer health care no matter how much money I give him and I can't influence other people who may be helpful to him. Except Walker would like another 3 million from you and as such he would in fact take your call. He just wouldn't give two shits about what you're requesting and all you'd get are empty promises at best. Fried Chicken posted:Votes wrapping up. McCarty just won majority leader I thought his last name was McCarthy? I really want some McCarthyism 2.0 because the GOP isn't insane enough yet. Captain_Maclaine posted:That, and much like fellow war criminal Donald Rumsfeld, I'm pretty certain that Cheney genuinely feels he needs to redeem the Iraq debacle and through it his own reputation. Was it him or his only-slightly-less-horrible daughter Liz, that said how awful it would be if Dick ended up branded as the American Pinochet? Dick Cheney: Undead and Loving It? Fried Chicken posted:Hey now, we should all remember that according the totally non partisan judges ruling on republicans getting caught violating what little remains if campaign finance laws Can't wait for the appeals that send this to the SCOTUS so Roberts can lead a 5-4 ruling on why this was totally ok and Dr. Arbitrary posted:I'm really hoping that Obama gets a spot on the Supreme Court. Just imagine it. IIRC, the Speaker of the House doesn't have to be a member of congress. So unless his two terms would rule him out, you could have a Speaker Obama running the House in 2017. Neither will happen though.
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Jun 19, 2014 23:03
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Kiwi Ghost Chips posted:That's not how bankruptcy works. All the assets are sold to the creditors (like their victims), new financing is found to continue the business, and the owners lose everything. God no. Filing for bankruptcy blocks the victims from filing suits. Bankruptcy code forbids filing a lawsuit against someone who has filed for bankruptcy. It then filed for a debtor-in-possession, which allows it to get a loan from someone to continue operations for now. The creditor for the DIP also gets first priority over other creditors because they took a risk. Freedom was able to get such a loan from a pair of companies called mountaineer Funding and VF Funding. So payments to those creditors are delayed indefinitely until those two companies are paid, and no lawsuits can be filed by those harmed Now comes the fun part: Freedom industries is owned by chemstream holdings. Chemstream holdings has the exact same street address as a company called Rosebud Mining. Which is kinda interesting. More interesting is this, Rosebud Mining owns two mineral financing companies you may have heard of - VF Funding and Mountaineer Funding. Further, Rosebud and Chemstream are owned by the same person - j Clifford Forrest. So one guy owns the shells that own the fronts. He poisoned 9 counties, them had one front declare bankruptcy to block lawsuits, them transferred money from a pair of fronts from a different shell to block creditor claims. Then he sold most of the assets to another front they own called Lexycon So he lost nothing and blocked any claims of restitution by any injured party or creditor, and actually made a little by selling the Freedom Industries assets he didn't transfer Ain't being rich awesome? Fried Chicken fucked around with this message at 23:09 on Jun 19, 2014 |
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Jun 19, 2014 23:03
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Evil Fluffy posted:Dick Cheney: Undead and Loving It? Seriously, you guys have great ideas but I thought I'd telegraphed pretty clearly that I was going with "Dick Cheney: American Pinochet" both because it fits and also he wouldn't like it.
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Jun 19, 2014 23:04
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elhondo posted:Jesus Christ if you can't see how trying A solution is better than trying NO solution, then whatever man, don't come crying to me.
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Jun 19, 2014 23:05
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Khisanth Magus posted:Yeah, anyone who believes that companies who declare bankruptcy in situations like that actually end up paying anything or having their assets touched in any way is extremely naive. They have way too many ways to funnel stuff out of the company into another identical company. It depends on how hard the creditors pursue things. Those shenanigans don't always work.
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Jun 19, 2014 23:11
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Captain_Maclaine posted:Seriously, you guys have great ideas but I thought I'd telegraphed pretty clearly that I was going with "Dick Cheney: American Pinochet" both because it fits and also he wouldn't like it. A sort of symbolic sequel to Manchester's American Caesar: Douglas MacArthur, 1880-1964, if you will. Which is also the title of an Iggy Pop album. Both are worth your time.
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Jun 19, 2014 23:19
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hobbesmaster posted:It depends on how hard the creditors pursue things. Those shenanigans don't always work. So it only works when your creditors have less money than you do, that's a great way to run things, no nothing wrong with that at all.
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Jun 19, 2014 23:30
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ReindeerF posted:Yeah, I meant in terms of morphology. As someone pointed out in one of the many Slenderman threads, of course he's the ultimate goon nightmare - he's thin, clean-shaven and wears a suit everywhere. The clear answer to that is a hulking, slovenly, poorly manicured oaf who smells of bacon. ZerglingMinor was a saint.
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Jun 19, 2014 23:45
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kelvron posted:ZerglingMinor was a saint.
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Jun 19, 2014 23:54
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Fried Chicken posted:God no. I knew nobody involved in the upper management would face any kind of penalty at all but I figured they'd at least need to sell the poo poo to a friend of theirs instead of themselves. Isn't the free market great. 
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Jun 19, 2014 23:59
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Fried Chicken posted:God no. This is the kind of story that should define the career of a young, intrepid investigative journalist. First it makes local headlines, then regional, then national, ultimately culminating in at least one executive being marched out in cuffs with his blazer pulled up over his face. Or failing that, said executive being confronted by an angry crowd wielding torches and pitchforks. Instead it's the kind of thing that takes up a chapter in a Matt Taibbi book a few years after the fact, because as evil as it is on the surface it's 100% legal.
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Jun 20, 2014 00:22
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Evil Fluffy posted:Except Walker would like another 3 million from you and as such he would in fact take your call. He just wouldn't give two shits about what you're requesting and all you'd get are empty promises at best. So you agree money doesn't buy results, and that the influence it provides requires the politician to already be inclined to agree with you?
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Jun 20, 2014 00:24
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Rhesus Pieces posted:This is the kind of story that should be broken by an intrepid investigative journalist, make local headlines, then go national, ultimately culminating in at least one executive being marched out in cuffs with his blazer pulled up over his face. Or failing that, being confronted by an angry crowd wielding torches and pitchforks. When roughly half of the country actively cheers stuff like this as a brilliant bootstrappy innovative business strategy to fight against the tyranny of the federal government and Obama, it would probably be difficult to get a good mob going.
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Jun 20, 2014 00:25
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Fried Chicken posted:Ain't being rich awesome? This is why no one ever wants to go digging for the truth, it's almost always too painful. 
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Jun 20, 2014 00:29
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Kiwi Ghost Chips posted:The state committee and its local committees have a 5k combined contribution limit for each candidate. Yes, but they can spend in a fairly coordinated manner. Captain_Maclaine posted:I've stayed out of this fracas so far, but I have to ask: have you ever considered a career in nuclear reactor shielding? Because this is one of the most appalling dense things I've ever heard. This is amazing.
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Jun 20, 2014 00:32
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Rhesus Pieces posted:This is the kind of story that should define the career of a young, intrepid investigative journalist. First it makes local headlines, then regional, then national, ultimately culminating in at least one executive being marched out in cuffs with his blazer pulled up over his face. Or failing that, said executive being confronted by an angry crowd wielding torches and pitchforks. It might not be legal. Just having companies in different names doesn't always shield you from liability depending on who owns what percentage of the companies and how they're related. They're almost certainly shielded from personal liability but liability on their investments could be an issue depending on their structure and whether the state decides to get serious about going after them. (it's west virginia so the company will get away with it)
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Jun 20, 2014 00:42
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Kalman posted:So you agree money doesn't buy results, and that the influence it provides requires the politician to already be inclined to agree with you? Money buys you access, and if you offered a shitheel like Scott Walker enough of it he would push for whatever you're asking. 3mil might not buy him to support UHC but for enough money he will sell out.
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Jun 20, 2014 00:56
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Fried Chicken posted:God no. I didn't have all the information at my fingertips and didn't have time to delve into it, but this is what I was getting at. Nuclear shielding was an understatement. The front of Icarus I and II were plated with Kiwi Ghost Chips.
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Jun 20, 2014 01:24
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Good Citizen posted:It might not be legal. Just having companies in different names doesn't always shield you from liability depending on who owns what percentage of the companies and how they're related. They're almost certainly shielded from personal liability but liability on their investments could be an issue depending on their structure and whether the state decides to get serious about going after them. Only if your lawyer really hosed up or you've been too lazy to maintain the bare minimum of walls between the companies. It basically never happens.
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Jun 20, 2014 01:27
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