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Honestly there needs to be a small xp bonus for loot bags over the minimum. Just have the game take into account how many bags it gives on that specific spawn of the heist, and dole out an "up-to X" xp bonus like with gage courier packages, so spergs can see if they missed something and pubbie LUA fairies won't completely bypass everything in one heist.
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Jul 1, 2014 15:29
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Drowning Rabbit posted:This thread having the same tag as the Secret discussion thread has really hosed me up when I look at a thread listing. I requested a change, sorry about that I don't have the secret thread bookmarked because Sykic posted:BEAT THAT DIRT! A++
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Jul 1, 2014 15:32
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So is there any comment on possible updates to the stealth system? I though the general flavor was that you typically did things to make your game more fun for the general playerbase? Was the old system really in need of tweaking? As someone who has played literally 2 hours of this game is there any way to explain how the old system was so that I understand why everyone is upset?
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Jul 1, 2014 15:36
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Fellis posted:I requested a change, sorry about that I don't have the secret thread bookmarked because While I appreciate it, it wasn't necessary to go to that effort. Thanks though!
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Jul 1, 2014 15:41
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Bootcha posted:Honestly there needs to be a small xp bonus for loot bags over the minimum. Just have the game take into account how many bags it gives on that specific spawn of the heist, and dole out an "up-to X" xp bonus like with gage courier packages, so spergs can see if they missed something and pubbie LUA fairies won't completely bypass everything in one heist. The EXP system is pretty much hosed up, in my opinion, in the way it causes not only immense frustration at failures, but you can actually game the system to get faster xp/minute by constantly failing an overkill mission at lower levels. Would it hurt too much to get proportional XP according to number of objectives completed/time spent in mission? I can understand getting no money, but you should get an equivalent amount of xp for time played.
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Jul 1, 2014 15:43
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Philosopher King posted:So is there any comment on possible updates to the stealth system? I though the general flavor was that you typically did things to make your game more fun for the general playerbase? Was the old system really in need of tweaking? As someone who has played literally 2 hours of this game is there any way to explain how the old system was so that I understand why everyone is upset? Mastermind and Ghost were the primary forces involved in early Stealth. Ghost had the jammer and Shinobi while the Mastermind could answer 4 pagers and could shout down one guard without triggering a call. Even without ghost skills though, the Dominator skill allowed people to easily control most jobs without slinking around or worrying about triggering more guards to spawn. It made stealth manageable to more people and was eventually changed because it was making the game too easy for some.
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Jul 1, 2014 15:47
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Philosopher King posted:So is there any comment on possible updates to the stealth system? I though the general flavor was that you typically did things to make your game more fun for the general playerbase? Was the old system really in need of tweaking? As someone who has played literally 2 hours of this game is there any way to explain how the old system was so that I understand why everyone is upset? Your question's a little confusing but here we go: The stealth system hasn't undergone too many huge changes through this game, which is fine because it generally works quite well. You have to take lighter armor and weapons to make yourself less conspicuous, and the less conspicuous you are the slower the 'detected' circles will fill up when a guard/camera/civvie is looking at you. You also generally need to suppress your weapons for sneaky work, which generally lowers their damage. The thing is, stealth is very all or nothing on a lot of maps. Either you pull off the stealth maneuver and you get out without barely firing a shot, or you blow it, you go loud, and now you have 10 minutes of manshooting while plan B completes and you have no armor, lovely weapons, and probably ECMs, which are practically useless after a heist has gone loud. Combine this with a relative lack of ghost skills that actually make it less likely you will be detected by the things that blow your stealth run most often (guards and cameras) and most goons don't see the point in trying to keep a lot of heists quiet. There are a couple of maps like Firestarter Day 2 which can be well designed in that if you get halfway through Plan A and blow it, it gives you a Plan B benefit, but they are the exception, not the rule. Unless you are comparing it to Payday 1, in which case it's an apples to oranges comparison as PD1 didn't even really have a fully realized stealth system. You could keep one or two heists quieter for a while if you were really careful, but eventually everything was going loud and things like armor upgrades were given to you for free for leveling, so that barely even mattered anyway. As far as why people keep whining 'fix the stealth system' in OKS posts, my only thought is that they could want skills in Ghost that actually make stealthing easier. Beyond that, you've got me what the gently caress they're blubbering about. Crabtree posted:Mastermind and Ghost were the primary forces involved in early Stealth. Ghost had the jammer and Shinobi while the Mastermind could answer 4 pagers and could shout down one guard without triggering a call. Even without ghost skills though, the Dominator skill allowed people to easily control most jobs without slinking around or worrying about triggering more guards to spawn. It made stealth manageable to more people and was eventually changed because it was making the game too easy for some. That was kind of wonky, but it's important to note that Dominator was always super, super unreliable in stealth. Even a sunglasses at night guard would resist it pretty often, and if he fired his gun and alerted everyone else, you WERE going loud. Taking Dominator out of the equation by making the guard's pager go off was a clearly superior solution, not just for the stealth system but for those of us who don't want to rerun a single day until Pubbie Jones's Magic Elixir of Solving works out for him. Coolguye fucked around with this message at 15:54 on Jul 1, 2014 |
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Jul 1, 2014 15:52
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Coolguye posted:SMG Specialist loving rules and is a bargain, for how good it makes an entire handful of weapons that are in both the primary and secondary slots I'm amazed it isn't a 4/8 skill. Wait, SMG Specialist applies to primary-slot weapons too? This is the first I've heard of this. FAUXTON posted:Also, hope they're boosting the reward on Big Bank. If clearing the vault you're looking at 20 minutes plus in most cases, and the reward is usually less than half that of a decent Firestarter run, which takes less than 40 minutes. I absolutely agree. Everything about Big Bank is epic in scale, except that utterly mediocre payoff that makes the whole endeavor feel like a wasted effort. I still haven't stealthed it and except for doing that for novelty's sake, it's pretty much lost it's luster.
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Jul 1, 2014 15:54
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Coolguye posted:That was kind of wonky, but it's important to note that Dominator was always super, super unreliable in stealth. Even a sunglasses at night guard would resist it pretty often, and if he fired his gun and alerted everyone else, you WERE going loud. Taking Dominator out of the equation by making the guard's pager go off was a clearly superior solution, not just for the stealth system but for those of us who don't want to rerun a single day until Pubbie Jones's Magic Elixir of Solving works out for him. Outside of the one guard that wouldn't respond to anything and hilariously handcuffed everyone that tried to shout them down, dominating was typically about acting immediately to when they spot you and getting lucky (like anything else in PD2). It wasn't foolproof, but it was helpful to shout at least one guard down so that the rest could be killed without worrying about the call limit being reached. But then again, even the superior solution didn't stop pubbies from being pubbies as now stealth is hoping the RNG doesn't gently caress you in between idiots not having silenced guns and Shinobi aced glitching out.
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Jul 1, 2014 16:10
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I'm just waiting for the day the mass media finally notices this motherfucker. Makes most GTA missions look like some kind of Mormon outreach program.
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Jul 1, 2014 16:16
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Going to be upset if there isn't an achievement to beat up a cloaker with a riot baton. Then real upset I have to do it.
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Jul 1, 2014 16:17
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I realize people hate Joker, but I still love using it. Also, people really can't seem to not shoot my dominated hostages. They'll be on their loving knees, cuffed, chilling in an empty hallway, and some rear end in a top hat will wander over there and pop them...or they will put their hands up in combat, when I'm clearly shouting at them to put their guns away, and my teammates just paste them anyway. I just respecced Mastermind from Ghost, and I feel a lot more useful and I have a lot more fun, but holy poo poo that is going to get old real fast.
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Jul 1, 2014 16:18
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If they haven't made the connection by now then they'll likely never do it. Not unless some shooter wears a mask and screams about someone named Bain.
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Jul 1, 2014 16:21
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Arsonide posted:I realize people hate Joker, but I still love using it. Also, people really can't seem to not shoot my dominated hostages. They'll be on their loving knees, cuffed, chilling in an empty hallway, and some rear end in a top hat will wander over there and pop them...or they will put their hands up in combat, when I'm clearly shouting at them to put their guns away, and my teammates just paste them anyway. I just respecced Mastermind from Ghost, and I feel a lot more useful and I have a lot more fun, but holy poo poo that is going to get old real fast. I'm the team MM and I also host most of the time, and desync often makes the other guys see a cop still shooting while I already have him surrendered.
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Jul 1, 2014 16:24
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Arsonide posted:I realize people hate Joker, but I still love using it. Also, people really can't seem to not shoot my dominated hostages. They'll be on their loving knees, cuffed, chilling in an empty hallway, and some rear end in a top hat will wander over there and pop them...or they will put their hands up in combat, when I'm clearly shouting at them to put their guns away, and my teammates just paste them anyway. I just respecced Mastermind from Ghost, and I feel a lot more useful and I have a lot more fun, but holy poo poo that is going to get old real fast. To be fair it's hard to not shoot dudes getting dominated if it's happening during a firefight, and I actually try! Once you get into SHOOT ALL THESE DUDES mode and you see DUDE, well...
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Jul 1, 2014 16:26
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Just did the Big Bank with a friend last night, What a mission, we were down to our last rounds of ammo for most of the heist and were mostly reliant on the AI having infinite ammo. We'd deliberately not looked up anything about this mission so there was a lot of time spent huf durfing about. Best bit was when we moved the bags over to the office opposite the vault and the bus promptly ran over em. Shame the payout sucked :/
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Jul 1, 2014 16:26
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Jim DiGriz posted:I'm the team MM and I also host most of the time, and desync often makes the other guys see a cop still shooting while I already have him surrendered. In the match in question I was a client and lagging pretty bad, so they had no excuse, host would have received and distributed the message in time.
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Jul 1, 2014 16:26
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Darwinism posted:To be fair it's hard to not shoot dudes getting dominated if it's happening during a firefight, and I actually try! Once you get into SHOOT ALL THESE DUDES mode and you see DUDE, well... I'm a Mastermind who loves recruiting for the Crime.Net Internship Program, and I still have this problem too. Sometimes a dude just wasn't meant to be taken alive.
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Jul 1, 2014 16:28
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So pumped for the new shotguns, I just want to know what they are now.
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Jul 1, 2014 16:29
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SeanBeansShako posted:So pumped for the new shotguns 
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Jul 1, 2014 16:33
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Darwinism posted:To be fair it's hard to not shoot dudes getting dominated if it's happening during a firefight, and I actually try! Once you get into SHOOT ALL THESE DUDES mode and you see DUDE, well... I've been guilty of popping surrendering cops and hostage cops. But Darwinism kinda hits it on the head: When you're in SHOOTFUCKINGCOP mode in a frantic bullet/Loco spraying, it's hard not to see anything not lying down or with a mask as something you need to shoot right loving now because your armor needs to recharge.
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Jul 1, 2014 16:51
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Don't tell me not to shoot mans, tell your cops to lie down flat. #yesallcriminals
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Jul 1, 2014 16:55
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Played a bunch of games yesterday with some very helpful goons who dragged me up from rank 6 to rank 41 in a night. Deathwish stealth missions, Overkill loud missions, it was awesome. Money, xp, the lot. You guys.  here is one thing I'd suggest every newbie do, speaking as one: go back to the OP, find the newbie guide, and at least read the Heist Basics section. Knowing how to crowd control quickly and efficiently is like a day-one thing you should learn. Things will probably go wrong unless you've got some insane high level dudes walking you through each heist. Even when things don't go wrong, sometimes it's just Plan B time. the rest of the thing you can read once you've done a few heists and figured out the context for just wtf all those words mean  e: is there any good guide on Gage Courier packs? I've found a couple on my own but I never seem to be very good at finding them all. Psion fucked around with this message at 17:04 on Jul 1, 2014 |
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Jul 1, 2014 17:01
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Another tip: gently caress up. Skim those guides, maybe run through on normal with AI once, just to get the objectives down, fail, then throw yourself in a real game and hope for the best. I'm serious. You'll gently caress up, but this is a heist game, and that is half the fun of a heist, when poo poo hits the fan.
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Jul 1, 2014 17:06
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Yeah that's a good thing too. There's a ton of pro min/max stuff you can come back to later, but don't sit staring at someone's level 100 build when you're still figuring out how to play the game. Just get in there and rob jewelry stores and banks. I made sure a friend of mine who was brand new played Mallcrasher as his first mission. "ok here is what you need to do: shoot cops, break poo poo." Worked out great.
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Jul 1, 2014 17:10
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I can't wait for the Striker to be OP as gently caress even though the gun is a legendary hunk of garbage in real life.
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Jul 1, 2014 17:21
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Can someone explain the comic in the OP I want to feel like a cool Payday 2 player as well.
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Jul 1, 2014 17:21
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Along with the mad XP and cash, I learned a lot by tailing goons (thanks y'all!) for a while the other day. For stealth I was still lost on some of the terminology, basic why's, etc. though, and this video helped me out: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4GaEG8W0RwU Blow poo poo up mode was definitely the way to start, though. At level ~60 I'm just now getting a feel for what to do with stealth. Glad I chose going up Enforcer first so I still have a plan B(roseph), especially for times like a pubbie lobby I joined last night of "my detection is OK at 75, it's all coming from my silencer" lvl ~10's that'd been failing FF day 1 stealth on Very Hard. Went full on fat kid armor, told them to follow me and go into blow poo poo up mode and we made it out no prob  . Let's not talk about day 3, though.PS This game is flippin fun.
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Jul 1, 2014 17:23
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Psion posted:e: is there any good guide on Gage Courier packs? I've found a couple on my own but I never seem to be very good at finding them all. Here you go. Memorize jewelry store and the bank heist maps, as they are easiest to lock down in stealth. http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=247135116
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Jul 1, 2014 17:31
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For courier packages I suggest running four stores overkill, you'll need an ECM or the saw to do it though. You can clear the map in a couple of minutes and there's just as many packages on it as on other maps. You will need to memorize the locations of the packages so it might take a bit longer the first times you do it but the plan is simple: Find the ATM and bust it open with your ECM or saw, as soon as you grab the money from it you will complete the objective and the van will be on it's way. Now run around collecting packages and leave when you are done.
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Jul 1, 2014 17:37
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Fellis posted:New DLC teaser page up: Aw man, I would kill for an expandable baton melee weapon. Give cloakers a taste of their own medicine. Also excellent work on the OP Fellis. Kikas posted:vvvvvvv Philosopher King posted:Can someone explain the comic in the OP I want to feel like a cool Payday 2 player as well.
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Jul 1, 2014 17:38
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Drewjitsu posted:Here you go. Memorize jewelry store and the bank heist maps, as they are easiest to lock down in stealth. Thanks! That looks great. I want some CAR-4 mods (who doesn't ) and that cool laser thing.
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Jul 1, 2014 17:39
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We are about to DIG FOR GOLD DOUBLOONS. SECRET PIRATE SHIP OF ONE EYED WILL CONFIRMED!
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Jul 1, 2014 17:46
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JoshVanValkenburg posted:We are about to DIG FOR GOLD DOUBLOONS. SECRET PIRATE SHIP OF ONE EYED WILL CONFIRMED! Is Chester Copperpot a new contact now?
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Jul 1, 2014 17:48
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Haven't played this since January and wow, they've really overhauled the game. Seems a lot easier to get useful/cool stuff, which is great, because it taking forever to get to the cool stuff is what killed my interest before. How do I get in on some decent goon games? I'm only level 16ish right now and keep failing heists because a whole lot of pubbies dive for the loot all at once, then blaming me for failing to cover them all.
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Jul 1, 2014 17:51
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The biggest change to the stealth is that they tweaked the number of guards and the way they worked on some of the maps. As an example, on Framing Frame Day 1, the strategy used to be to carefully kill and bag up the 4 guards roaming around the gallery and then you were free to sprint around at top speed smashing cameras and windows and throwing grenades everywhere. Now there are up to 6 guards with an additional one spawning once you've killed 4 AND one who walks in from off map, patrols around for a while checking things out, and then leaves the map again. More cynical people will say that this is Overkill being upset at how easily people were beating what they consider "endgame heists" and making them a pain in the rear end. I'd say it's more that there was no difference between stealthing a normal heist and an Overkill heist beyond the payout and how bad it would be if things go loud. It's hard to get used to after several dozen runs of Framing Frame the old way but it's not a huge deal and makes it a lot more rewarding when you get it right. My only issue with it is the pathing on guards still isn't fixed causing them to stall in doorways or teleport through walls sometimes so leaving them alive can cause problems. It does make Day 3 of Framing Frame even more obnoxious. Now you have all these extra guards who notice the vault bookcase being moved and loot bags sitting around. That wouldn't be a problem if it weren't for the design of the mission being that if you go loud the entire stealth portion is scrapped. Bumped into guard number 5 on the staircase while carrying the last bag of gold up and were a half second late on dropping the ECM jammer? gently caress the last 25 minutes now you babysit a computer and wade through tans to get to a breaker box every 20 seconds. What new guys have to keep in mind is a lot of the complaining comes from people who have played 100+ hours of this game and don't like that overnight things can change in ways that force you to shift your playstyle. Just relax, play with goons, increase that bankroll, and one day you'll be able to afford a flat of your own.
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Jul 1, 2014 17:52
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I noticed that the game is called Payday and not Heist. Any chance they'll add more variety of missions? I feel kidnapping/extraction of targets is already pretty much there in the engine and all they need to do is connect the dots.
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Jul 1, 2014 18:01
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Philosopher King posted:I noticed that the game is called Payday and not Heist. Any chance they'll add more variety of missions? I feel kidnapping/extraction of targets is already pretty much there in the engine and all they need to do is connect the dots.
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Jul 1, 2014 18:03
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InequalityGodzilla posted:That would involve making good decisions and variety. Thus far Overkill has had problems with both. So what happened this time they just tripped over making a good game?
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Jul 1, 2014 18:05
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Crabtree posted:IS HE BEATING A COP WITH A POLICE BATON? Yesssssss New update rules, Overkill is really doing great work. Pushing the Big Bank with Gus Fring, then selling Payday 2 for cheap during summer sale, and then now pushing new DLC to all those customers, brilliant moves. I like that they're doing the TF2 thing where the update gets its own little teaser page that reveals over time. Although its kinda silly to post it today, reveals tomorrow, and then we get it Thursday. But I'm not complaining! Gimme dem shotguns. And batons. And ... shovels
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Jul 1, 2014 18:07
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