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Tatum Girlparts posted:^^^What does that have to do with the south? What it has to do with the south is that while you are more likely to be around a minority in the south in a general sense, higher level education and other institutional things in the south are far, far less likely to have minorities operating in them relative to the amount of white people. And when it comes to southern universities, it's mostly to do with the fact most states (Florida included since the snake man got into office) have been loving up their education systems on which many minorities relied previously.
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Jul 7, 2014 21:27
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vintagepurple posted:There are also a lot of black southerners who hold conservative viewpoints on certain issues but still don't vote republican (if they bother voting at all) because republicans are pretty clearly the party of rich white guys only. Basically this, in its entirety, is why I get so annoyed at non-Southern progressives. We're trying, there's a pretty big push even, but we need help. So act like a loving progressive and help us out, don't act like the Tea Party and poo poo on people because of their circumstances.
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Jul 7, 2014 21:30
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SedanChair posted:What's your point? My point was stop posting in this thread, or you're going on probation, but I guess I needed to make that more clear.
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Jul 7, 2014 21:35
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Alexzandvar posted:What it has to do with the south is that while you are more likely to be around a minority in the south in a general sense, higher level education and other institutional things in the south are far, far less likely to have minorities operating in them relative to the amount of white people. Anecdotally, the first university I went to was majority-minorty. Just because you go to a predominantly white school doesn't mean everyone does.
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Jul 7, 2014 21:45
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Alexzandvar posted:What it has to do with the south is that while you are more likely to be around a minority in the south in a general sense, higher level education and other institutional things in the south are far, far less likely to have minorities operating in them relative to the amount of white people. And when it comes to southern universities, it's mostly to do with the fact most states (Florida included since the snake man got into office) have been loving up their education systems on which many minorities relied previously. You realize this is a national issue not a regional one right? See people have already covered the totally not racist 'lol nuke the place full of the poor minorities that'll fix our ills' creepy poo poo people do but this is actually the worst. So only the south has issues with our education system? Only in he south does the deck get stacked against minority children and children in low income areas in getting a good education? That's how poo poo goes now? You're talking about a national issue but pretending it's only in the 'bad' part of the country.
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Jul 7, 2014 21:49
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Popular Thug Drink posted:Anecdotally, the first university I went to was majority-minorty. Just because you go to a predominantly white school doesn't mean everyone does. I'm only using my school as an example due to it's size, and often size being a good indicator of better population selection. But like I said in the rest of my post lack of minorities in southern schools is more likely due to failing education systems rather than say, everyone just being racist and when it comes to the south lovely (pre-college) education investment is a pretty big constant. Tatum Girlparts posted:You realize this is a national issue not a regional one right? I was not attempting to say "this only happening in the south" but rather trying to say that the idea that the south does have some issues with it. In none of my posts do I advocate nuking the south nor do I say I want to burn it to the ground. I have family spread all over the south, and I go to University in the south. Venom Snake fucked around with this message at 21:56 on Jul 7, 2014 |
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Jul 7, 2014 21:52
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nucleicmaxid posted:Basically this, in its entirety, is why I get so annoyed at non-Southern progressives. We're trying, there's a pretty big push even, but we need help. So act like a loving progressive and help us out, don't act like the Tea Party and poo poo on people because of their circumstances. So we should be accommodating to people that continue to vote Republican on single issues? I agree that a progressive policies are what are NEEDED in the South. Totally! My rants are basically against the romanticizing of the South as if it would only be great if X happened. The only X that needs to happen is a reversal of centuries of white privilege and anti-community behavior from the region. You also said I provided no evidence that the South is worse off in some ways. I'm sorry but that HDI posted in the OP here and in GBS are exactly that. In just about every category the Southern region comes up last, followed by Northern states that have adopted a lot of their positions on things like Idaho and North Dakota. You are right to point out that Conservatism has melded itself with a lot of Southern identity and a lot of mine (and I think other posters) disdain isn't for just the South but for the entire political ideology that is folded in with it. There are people in the South doing amazing work, and I cheer them on, but its hard as an outsider to be hopeful when, welp, looks like yet another theocratic old white guy is elected to office. Less birth control for women, less voting rights for minorities, and you can forget those roads getting fixed for the next 6 years. The progressives in the cities need to mobilize and vote to enact any real change, but that is going to be difficult as we have seen with the levers of power handled by the rich white folk, and for those that would otherwise be on the side of progress getting sucked into identify politics of "Real Southern America" and voting against their own interests. Let me ask you this, nucleicmaxid; do you agree that American politics on the National stage would look very different and be more open to progressive ideals if the South did not have a deep and entrenched opposition to federal powers? Also, I never advocated marching on the South and salting the earth. Only that the solutions to the impoverished region are going to be solved by using economic or political force against the landed elite in order to get the South with the rest of the Country. Lastly, while SedanChair is being pedantic about it, I think he does have a point. There ARE black Conservatives, they just aren't a huge voting block because by and large the Republican party isn't friendly to them.
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Jul 7, 2014 21:57
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You realize those of us who are southern progressives are still proud of our homes right? It's like, yea man, gently caress you if you want to act like the south is some nasty hive of single issue voters, I guess it's easier to talk about your 'disdain' for us and talk about how we need to work faster, and at the same time say change takes time to handwave away your own inaction.
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Jul 7, 2014 22:02
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Tatum Girlparts posted:You realize those of us who are southern progressives are still proud of our homes right? It's like, yea man, gently caress you if you want to act like the south is some nasty hive of single issue voters, I guess it's easier to talk about your 'disdain' for us and talk about how we need to work faster, and at the same time say change takes time to handwave away your own inaction. Southern progressives actually gives me hope the future, especially battleground Texas. Although the stereotype of the leftist circular firing squad is in full effect when it comes to cooperation with southern leftist organizations mostly due to the idea anyone from the south cannot possibly by liberal "enough" and are all blue dog democrats.
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Jul 7, 2014 22:06
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Jastiger posted:More Jastiger posted:Jastiger, OP of the GBS thread in question, here. Looks like that's not true at all. Also, you seem to be pointedly working hard at missing the point that these are economic issues. As well, you ignore the point that your smug, sarcastic attitude toward those who vote straight ticket Republican only enforces their desire to vote straight ticket Republican. You're actually making the job of Progressives in the South a lot harder by giving Conservatives a smugfaced shitheel enemy to point their base's hatred at. You're forcing us to side with yourself and other people who stated, literally, that they wanted a second Sherman's March in 2014. Sure you amended it later when you got called out on it, and tried to hide behind 'oh, no, no I meant an ECONOMIC Sherman's March!' but that doesn't even make any sense. The problems in the South are problems that are present on a national (hell, global) scale. They will be solved the same way these sorts of problems are solved elsewhere, with understanding, facts, evidence, and a slow push toward making the world a better place. You've conflated Southern culture up to and including the food they like with racist conservatism, and in doing so you've helped alienate people who might actually be on your side 99.99% of the time, and you've helped strengthen the people you actually should be disliking by offending people into voting for them. In short - You're not helping, shut up or start helping. edit: typos Yngwie Mangosteen fucked around with this message at 22:09 on Jul 7, 2014 |
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Jul 7, 2014 22:06
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missing the point.
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Look man you gotta respect that he's not going to get active until the battle's already about to be won, we're going too slow for him to get involved now. He's gotta wait till the last minute to be all 'oh man we did it guys, great job all of us I guess' and he can tell his friends he was totally a part of the movement to turn Texas blue. Like a real progressive activist. I think it was ol Teddy himself who said those famous words "Speak softly, so they don't see you sneaking in the back door for the victory party".
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Jul 7, 2014 22:09
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I think a large part of why people view the south poorly, are the voices of the people who represent you. Usually ones threatening that they're going to secede again. Along with the ever present confederate flag of course. Jagoffs from around the country, north and south alike will fly that flag in rural areas. It's a beacon that lets everyone around that person know just what kind of backwards rear end in a top hat they are. It can't be terribly surprising that people equate those people with "The South".
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Jul 7, 2014 22:12
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While some of their social programs are bad for those in poverty, I don't believe the south is racist on the whole. For instance, if you said that the vaginas of black women resemble a roast beef sandwich from Philipe's which has soaked in oily worcestershire sauce for some days, then been topped with ape cum, many southerners wouldn't agree.
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Jul 7, 2014 22:15
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Talmonis posted:I think a large part of why people view the south poorly, are the voices of the people who represent you. Usually ones threatening that they're going to secede again. It's not that those are the only voices from here. Wendy Davis, Bill Clinton, the SPLC, etc. etc. are also voices from the South. They're just not as fun to pick at as some rural redneck with a confederate flag.
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Jul 7, 2014 22:16
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Talmonis posted:I think a large part of why people view the south poorly, are the voices of the people who represent you. Usually ones threatening that they're going to secede again. Bill Clinton, famous for his confederate flag and secession talk.
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Jul 7, 2014 22:18
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El Kooserino posted:While some of their social programs are bad for those in poverty, I don't believe the south is racist on the whole. For instance, if you said that the vaginas of black women resemble a roast beef sandwich from Philipe's which has soaked in oily worcestershire sauce for some days, then been topped with ape cum, many southerners wouldn't agree. Taking this into consideration. Thanks
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Jul 7, 2014 22:18
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I always like to point out that most of the country's sundown towns were actually in the North during these sorts of North Vs. South shitfests. If I remember correctly, it had to do with the way the economic system was set up in the South that made sundown towns unfeasible. Also, holy poo poo, its crazy how much of a perfect storm came together to make a shitload of our cultural identity come out of the South: Jazz, Rock and Roll, Blues, and that is just music.
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Jul 7, 2014 22:24
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Talmonis posted:I think a large part of why people view the south poorly, are the voices of the people who represent you. Usually ones threatening that they're going to secede again. Now do a find-replace with "the south" and "Islam".
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Jul 7, 2014 22:25
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blackguy32 posted:I always like to point out that most of the country's sundown towns were actually in the North during these sorts of North Vs. South shitfests. If I remember correctly, it had to do with the way the economic system was set up in the South that made sundown towns unfeasible. Yea in the south if you were going to lynch every minority that hung around after dark that meant you were going to be basically stringing up half the town and, more importantly to stupid rear end racists, most all the cheap labor that the town relied on. edit: Also yea the most famous 'sundown town' was Hawthorne California, not 'the north' I suppose but also pretty far from what people call 'the south', that was the place with the nice sign saying 'friend of the family, you better not let the sun set on you in Hawthorne' or some permutation of that. sexpig by night fucked around with this message at 22:42 on Jul 7, 2014 |
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Jul 7, 2014 22:31
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Talmonis posted:I think a large part of why people view the south poorly, are the voices of the people who represent you. Usually ones threatening that they're going to secede again. Bill Clinton, Jimmy Carter, LBJ. There have been plenty of progressive national Southern leaders, in fact every democratic President for the last half century except for Obama! Also the only place where secession talk has any real following is in Texas, and it's still a joke here.
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Jul 7, 2014 22:47
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Talmonis posted:I think a large part of why people view the south poorly, are the voices of the people who represent you. Usually ones threatening that they're going to secede again. Not sure who you're talking to here, as this is the guy who represents me.  How do you mean represent? In Congress, as Representatives, or as token examples that you can point to for an easy moral superiority boost? I mean it's fun to imagine that the south is Literally Deliverance if you're a spiteful person but don't expect anyone to take you seriously except for other spiteful, sheltered people. These are the Forums, after all.
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Jul 7, 2014 22:49
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Sheng-ji Yang posted:Bill Clinton, Jimmy Carter, LBJ. There have been plenty of progressive national Southern leaders, in fact every democratic President for the last half century except for Obama! Bill Clinton as a progressive leader 
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Jul 7, 2014 22:50
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Gen. Ripper posted:Bill Clinton as a progressive leader Agreed he was a secessionist confederacy lover as originally said.
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Jul 7, 2014 22:53
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Jastiger posted:You are right to point out that Conservatism has melded itself with a lot of Southern identity and a lot of mine (and I think other posters) disdain isn't for just the South but for the entire political ideology that is folded in with it. Here's your problem. Conservatism isn't a part of southern identity. Period. Racism isn't. Evangelical christianity isn't. The South has lots of people that believe in those things, yes, but I, and plenty of others, identifity as southern and are firmly against them. And we can't have a dialogue with jerkoffs like you because you can't discuss the south's issues without framing it as inherent flaw in southern identity. You also seem to assume that everything we enjoy about the South is "romanticism." I don't love a romantic idea of the South. I like the South. It's my home. I've spent quite a lot of time there. I know what it's like. Trying to convince the poor cotton farmers from my hometown that they need to vote differently is not going to work if you insist that their very culture is the problem. My grandfather fought for the Nazis. He killed american soldiers in Italy. His cause was terrible but I don't hate him for it, and I cherish the remnants of alsatian culture in my family's life. I can appreciate these things even though the culture associated with them was horrendously flawed and committed terrible acts. What you're doing is the equivalent of approaching problems of race and inequality in Germany by declaring that eating sauerkraut, celebrating german history, or even identifying as german at all is inherently fascist, authoritarian, and antisemitic. If you'd look objectively you'd see that progressive southerners look on their own recent history in much the same way as germans do: with a lot of regret, a lot of shame, and a lot of hope for a better future.
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Jul 7, 2014 23:14
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nucleicmaxid posted:Looks like that's not true at all. I understand why you get mad at it, I'm not really nice about it. But I'm not wrong on the data. The South has some of the worst scores in a lot of the ways we measure democratic success. Pointing that out may be a dick move, but I don't think its wrong. I have agreed with you in many ways that the problems ARE economic but you can't get past the fact that since I"m not flying down there handing out leaflets in Montgomery therefore I'm the problem. What do you propose I do? What Talmonis meant were the folks that identify with Southern culture. You don't see folks like Clinton or goddam heroes like Lewis flaunting Southern pride. You hear them talking about making it a better place to be, not thumbing their noses at folks like Michelle Alexander or the EPA. The narrative is absolutely "we're South and proud of it, eff everyone else" even if that isn't' even the majority opinion of Southerners, you can absolutely see that as a cultural trend in pop culture and even in news outlets. "Real America" is rural, "Liberal Obamas America" is Not The South. "Big City Elites" want to tell you what to do with their "data", "Small Town America" has all the REAL values. VintagePurple posted:Here's your problem. Conservatism isn't a part of southern identity. Period. Racism isn't. Evangelical christianity isn't. The South has lots of people that believe in those things, yes, but I, and plenty of others, identifity as southern and are firmly against them. And we can't have a dialogue with jerkoffs like you because you can't discuss the south's issues without framing it as inherent flaw in southern identity. You also seem to assume that everything we enjoy about the South is "romanticism." I don't love a romantic idea of the South. I like the South. It's my home. I've spent quite a lot of time there. I know what it's like. Right, not every Southerner thinks those things. I have said as much. I'm saying that politically the South says those things in the way they run the states, pass laws, and send to Congress. Higher voter turn out equals less Conservative candidates and the South has literally codified, then repealed, and are not re-codifying a lower voter turn out. Its terrible. Its why the stats are what they are. Its not the same as saying eating Saurkraut means you're a Nazi. It means if you think Merkel is a nut, the EU is evil, immigrants are ruining Germany, and maybe we should go back to militarizing everyone that we might wonder what you'd do if you were alive 80 (in the US 150) years ago and there is a problem. Jastiger fucked around with this message at 23:20 on Jul 7, 2014 |
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Jul 7, 2014 23:15
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Jastiger posted:I understand why you get mad at it, I'm not really nice about it. But I'm not wrong on the data. The South has some of the worst scores in a lot of the ways we measure democratic success. Pointing that out may be a dick move, but I don't think its wrong. I have agreed with you in many ways that the problems ARE economic but you can't get past the fact that since I"m not flying down there handing out leaflets in Montgomery therefore I'm the problem. Angela Merkel doesn't go around shouting about how german she is. Do you think she identifies as german?
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Jul 7, 2014 23:17
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vintagepurple posted:Angela Merkel doesn't go around shouting about how german she is. Do you think she identifies as german? Ninja edit post above yours.
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Jul 7, 2014 23:21
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Jastiger posted:What Talmonis meant were the folks that identify with Southern culture. You don't see folks like Clinton or goddam heroes like Lewis flaunting Southern pride. You hear them talking about making it a better place to be, not thumbing their noses at folks like Michelle Alexander or the EPA. The narrative is absolutely "we're South and proud of it, eff everyone else" even if that isn't' even the majority opinion of Southerners, you can absolutely see that as a cultural trend in pop culture and even in news outlets. "Real America" is rural, "Liberal Obamas America" is Not The South. "Big City Elites" want to tell you what to do with their "data", "Small Town America" has all the REAL values. "Look its not everyone in the South thats the problem, it's just Southern culture and anyone who identifies as a Southerner are poo poo and terrible and I can't want to march an army south and burn down their cities just like my hero Sherman  ."Also lol at Clinton not flaunting being a Southerner. Half of his charismatic appeal is being a good ol boy from Hope, Arkansas who plays sax and loves him some fried chicken. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k84lMPX_Kjg Sheng-Ji Yang fucked around with this message at 23:24 on Jul 7, 2014 |
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Jul 7, 2014 23:21
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The Germans at least felt shame about the Reich and went about aggressively removing its influence on German society as much as they could.
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Jul 7, 2014 23:22
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So now we've reached the point where Jastiger, who has experienced southern identity and culture solely through television and the internet, makes strident assertions about what southern culture is while insisting that they know more than people born and raised in the south.Jastiger posted:What do you propose I do? At the very least you could stop pretending and posturing like you're accomplishing anything via the internet other than vacant nonsense complaints. boner confessor fucked around with this message at 23:29 on Jul 7, 2014 |
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Jul 7, 2014 23:27
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Popular Thug Drink posted:So now we've reached the point where Jastiger, who has experienced southern identity and culture solely through television and the internet, makes strident assertions about what southern culture is while insisting that they know more than people born and raised in the south. Pretty much this. I'd empty quote it a hundred times if it meant that Jastiger would realize that he's actually got more in common with southern bigots than he does with southern progressives. Southern progressives are dead tired of xenophobia and petty squabbles. Now I guess we wait for the non-Southern progressives to catch up.
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Jul 7, 2014 23:35
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nucleicmaxid posted:Pretty much this. I'd empty quote it a hundred times if it meant that Jastiger would realize that he's actually got more in common with southern bigots than he does with southern progressives. Southern progressives are dead tired of xenophobia and petty squabbles. Now I guess we wait for the non-Southern progressives to catch up. Southern Progressives are actually MORE progressive than Northern Progressives as evidenced by their strong social safety nets, high voter turn out, and strong environmental regulations?
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Jul 7, 2014 23:37
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Jastiger posted:I have agreed with you in many ways that the problems ARE economic but you can't get past the fact that since I"m not flying down there handing out leaflets in Montgomery therefore I'm the problem. Flying down to Montgomery and handing out leaflets would be a pretty good start, actually. You'd let your actions speak louder than your words and you'd get first-hand experience with Southern culture, allowing you to speak from experience instead of just talking out of your rear end.
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Jul 7, 2014 23:37
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Jastiger posted:Southern Progressives are actually MORE progressive than Northern Progressives as evidenced by their strong social safety nets, high voter turn out, and strong environmental regulations? Nah it's more like how when I go to things back home in Louisiana I don't get a bunch of 'oh poo poo man you're from texas and pro gay rights/workers rights/whatever the gently caress rights' as if I'm so wacky, but when I go to things up north I get to hear from a bunch of shitbags that never left their state how backwards and stupid my home is like I'm loving fleeing Darfur. Legitimately the biggest hurdle we have to deal with is people like you who stereotype the people we're trying to win over as a bunch of braindead hicks who wave confederate flags around yelling about secession. Like, you realize you make our job harder, right? You realize you actively make it worse to be progressive and try to fight for improvements?
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Jul 7, 2014 23:43
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Jastiger posted:Southern Progressives are actually MORE progressive than Northern Progressives as evidenced by their strong social safety nets, high voter turn out, and strong environmental regulations? We don't just bandwagon onto the general attitude of the area, blindly deciding that another group is worthy of extermination due to their beliefs. We actually take into account the world as a whole, and work to make it a better place without trying to 'slam' or 'score points on' people who should be our ideological brothers and sisters. At least not until they start saying we should all be exterminated like vermin for faults that are present on a national scale. You're a progressive because of where you're from. We're progressives because its the right way to be. You're a progressive in a bastion of progressiveness, we're progressives despite the pushback we get from some people around us. Note: This is mostly tongue in cheek, but you are actually in fact an absolutely TERRIBLE progressive.
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Jul 7, 2014 23:44
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Popular Thug Drink posted:It's just as historically revisionist to claim that Sherman only burned 'military' infrastructure, anything used by bushwhackers, bandits, militia, etc. counted as military and local commanders had discretion to do as they pleased. That's not entirely accurate. Corps commanders, not just whatever local commander on the ground, had discretion to burn property like mills, cotton gins, and plantation houses. Also, the most devastating blow to the Southern economy and way of life wasn't the burning of plantaions or cotton gins, it was the liberation of thousands of slaves in Georgia and the Carolinas. Popular Thug Drink posted:It also doesn't help anyone when foragers come by and sieze all of your military livestock, destroy the military roads and railroads, and tear up your military farmhouse. Except for the fact that it ends the war sooner? The March to the Sea knocked the Confederate war effort to pieces and made it difficult, if not impossible, to continue the war into the future. Popular Thug Drink posted:Sherman's March was absolutely total war performed against civilians, and while we're lucky that starvation and generational poverty was the worst result compared to the massacres that crop up when this happened elsewhere and when, it's odd how much people fetishize the march as some kind of petulant power fantasy against a symbolic caricature of the south. It's one of the more puzzlingly hypocritical aspects of internet liberals that they would nominally be against needless collective punishment except against dastardly racist white southerners. This right here is why it's so generally insufferable to listen to Southerners talk about their past. It's not the fault of generations of racism that papered over class divisions, crippled and destroyed any attempt at organized labor movements, and led poor Southerners into the arms of wealthy planters that was the cause of generational poverty, it was William T. Sherman. I'm curious how Sherman's March, rather than the existence of the plantation economy, was the real culprit behind generational poverty in the South, especially when Sherman was the mastermind of early Union attempts at land redistribution to African Americans along the Atlantic coast of South Carolina, Georgia, and Florida (land redistribution that would have gone a long way to breaking the entrenched power of the Southern planter elite). The myth of the March to the Sea's limitless brutality was concocted by white Southerners to justify Reconstruction era resistance to federal authority and to support the myth of the Lost Cause. Tatum Girlparts posted:People who pretend Sherman was in any way just or moral in his march are literally saying it's ok to destroy an entire civilian population's livelihood and food sources because you're mad at their leaders. The idea that white Southerners opposed the war in significant numbers ignores not only the broad support for secession and war among the yeoman and laboring classes, but also ignores the broad white supremacist cross class coalition that had been created in the South, a coalition that co-opted poor whites into supporting slavery and the war effort because being a poor white man was better than being black in the antebellum and postbellum South. I'll also point out that that civilian population's livelihood was slavery first and foremost, and it's kinda great that the March to the Sea did more to irreparably shatter the slave system in the South than any other single military operation in the Civil War.
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Jul 7, 2014 23:48
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Totally agreed, Naked Lincoln, that's why I supported the napalming of Vietnam, lots of those guys were in favor of the war and ya know, it DID gently caress with the NVA a lot so, ya know, what's the real focus here?
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Jul 7, 2014 23:52
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Popular Thug Drink posted:So now we've reached the point where Jastiger, who has experienced southern identity and culture solely through television and the internet, makes strident assertions about what southern culture is while insisting that they know more than people born and raised in the south. Not to mention demanding that religious southern progressives need not apply. "Whoah, organizing some of the biggest protests against Alabamas draconian immigration law? Sorry, you guys better stay at home."
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Jul 7, 2014 23:53
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Mormon Star Wars posted:Not to mention demanding that religious southern progressives need not apply. Which again is really funny in light of his "I want more Huey Long and less Mitch McConnell" statement.
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Jul 7, 2014 23:55
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I have lived in the northern part of South Carolina for going on fifteen years. I live in a college town so the racism isn't blatant, but it exists. There isn't a whole lot to be said that hasn't been said already. Poverty, racism, classism, ultra-concentration of wealth, ignorance, corruption, teen pregnancy, reliance on social welfare, etc. There are no linchpin solutions, or at least so few that it wouldn't make a difference. All of these problems are like a web. They are strengthened by tradition and reinforced by ignorance. It's a culture and it's difficult to change culture. Generally you have to wait for the next generation to make itself known and hope they do it better than the people who are dying out. So I'll stick to anecdotes. I feel like I could take a stab at the why, but the why is incredibly big. I live in a college town. It isn't bad. Racism exists, but it's a sort of look over your shoulder to make sure black people can't hear you tell horrible jokes racism. I think I have become more aware of my own prejudices more in the South than if I lived elsewhere. Federalism is a joke. What you see in the news about corruption is the barest tip of the iceberg and for the most part, innocuous. Hahaaa, Sanford cheated on his wife. That's adorable. Let's not prosecute him. Big business buys small time politicians for a pittance. Kershaw county in particular is sitting on a (supposed) enormous amount of gold. The uncle of a friend of mine recorded the city council talking in open session about what was essentially bribery. It was so blatant and no one cared. This mining is the sort that will use fracking techniques that will poison the water table with horrible poo poo. After he exposed it the threats, death threats, death threats to friends and family members, etc just rolled in. If he wasn't retired he probably would have lost his job as well. He isn't an environmentalist, he just wants to live on his land and have drinkable well water. Moving on, my friend of fifteen years, the one I met off the bus on my first day of high school, the one whom I disabused of stupid, intolerant ideas from a young age so we could be friends because he desperately wanted one. We talked about kicking off a political podcast together a year or so back. He's about as intelligent as one can be without access to higher learning. A month ago my best friend believes that black people are more likely to commit crimes, are mentally inferior and generally are genetically predisposed to laziness and violence. It blew my mind. I have had half a dozen talks with him since then and there is nothing I can do to disabuse him of this idea. This is a person I thought to be rational and reasonable. We had our disagreements, but up until just a short time ago it was the sort of disagreement that was ideological rather than based purely in ignorance. I mention this person because I thought that he was intelligent and educated, but deep down he is harboring these unsaid malignant thoughts. This opinion is fairly common. Religion here is disgusting. I'm not, but most people in my area go to church. Their hypocrisy burns. They "get their Jesus" once a week and don't live it for the rest. They lie, cheat, steal and worse, but go to church like it is some sort of magic spell to cleanse them of their horrible behavior. The majority have never read the bible but in the tiniest of bits. Partially due to laziness, but I think the primary reason is just because the average reading level isn't high enough. Even if someone wanted to, your average KJB is too difficult to understand for your average person and doubly so in the South. Religion is capital B.I.G. in the South. I have made a few dozen attempts to try, because I want to believe in something. But the barriers are enormous. Most churches fit into five different types in the area: 1. Small, aging churches with suspicious old people. They are tiny, run down things. Sometimes a Preacher/Minister/whatever will work at several different churches in order to maintain a decent income. 2. Cults. I'm not sure of a better way to put it. They're not dominant in my area, but I just have to travel south, east or west for twenty minutes before you have your choice between Southern Baptists or cults. The flavor of the area is Pentecostalism of which its description is an entirely different post. 3. Mega churches. Personally I think of the vast majority of them as scams. They have young people, which tends to separate them from the vast majority of other churches. The local ones love that prosperity gospel which (in my opinion) reduces God to a sort of magic spell that makes you rich through prayer. You can recognize the scams by the size of the house(s) that the person who runs it owns. The more like it looks like something from MTV cribs, the more likely that you're being scammed. 4. Minority religions. The Catholics are quiet about who they are out here, but they exist. Since there is a Native American reservation out here there is a church of Mormon. They're less quiet but don't proselytize. I like the Mormons out here, awkward but kind. 5. Non-White churches. They may fit into one or two of the above categories. My experience with these are limited, but you will be hard pressed to find a church that isn't segregated out here. I tried an AME Zion church in which I was the only white face amongst a sea of black ones. It was perhaps the most positive experience I have ever had with a church. Upbeat, lots of hugging/touching, happy singing, etc. I was sold until I met the pastor. From moment one I didn't trust him and couldn't shake the feeling. He had this sort of oily, used car salesman kind of charisma. I wish it could have worked out because I loved the place otherwise, and also it lets me segue into... Dating outside of my race. Holy poo poo so much hate. I went to said church partially to try to impress a girl. It was in college so the anger was simmering and didn't last long. In high school though I dated two black women. They were wonderful, but the hatred and exclusion just made me feel like it wasn't worth it sometimes. Education is terrible. The parents and grandparents who were able to drop out and work in the cotton mills are still telling their children that they dropped out of high school and got a job, or at least that education isn't the path to success. There is a cultural bias against education because up until a generation ago it wasn't particularly necessary. Manufacturing is a shadow of what it once was and the jobs that people had twenty or thirty years ago just aren't there. Young people now just move away or die. I'm isolated from this since the college is in town, but I can go twenty miles in any direction and just see the poverty and neglect. Abandoned businesses and run down homes for miles. I think the worst part is that there is either a general disdain or unthinking fear regarding other points of view. There is little dissenting thought, only the culture. I live in a culture where people are taught to actively work against their own interests. Fit in or get out. Edit: Fixed a few words and phrases, nothing overtly changed. Ice Phisherman fucked around with this message at 00:03 on Jul 8, 2014 |
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Jul 7, 2014 23:57
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