|
Skijump rocket motorcycles were pretty cool, though.
|
#
?
Jul 8, 2014 19:42
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 11, 2024 09:32 |
|
|
Psion posted:Skijump rocket motorcycles were pretty cool, though. Oh yeah, no denying that. VIII has some pretty good scenes and set-pieces and stuff.
|
|
#
?
Jul 8, 2014 19:46
|
|
|
FinalGamer posted:So basically they're exactly like FF7 fans Wikipedia posted:As of November 2012, 39,663,771 accounts exist on LiveJournal, with 1,790,795 listed as "active in some way."[30] Of those users who provided their date of birth, the majority were in the 17–25 age group, with an exceptionally large group of 32-year-olds. Among the users specifying their gender in their profile, 45% of those accounts identified as male, and 55% as female. 20% of accounts did not specify a gender.[31]
|
|
#
?
Jul 8, 2014 21:05
|
|
the teenage livejournal ones that is. Do people still use livejournal, god I'm old by internet standards.
|
In the last two years Livejournal did enough loving with the site's code that everyone jumped ship to other social media (typically Tumblr) except for the most stubborn, the most devoted, and the Russians, half of which may or may not be spambots. So while a lot of English accounts are still around, very few are active and now it's basically a politics box for Russian users.
|
|
#
?
Jul 8, 2014 21:23
|
|
|
Pesky Splinter posted:VIII's plot is basically a jumble of individual stories that, by themselves, would more than be sufficent for a narrative. The FF8 world always felt so abnormally empty to me, too. Even though it's no worse than any other JRPG of its time - it was a staple of the genre to have little isolated towns floating around in a big vast overworld. But FF8's detailed city backgrounds made it seem a lot more jarring than usual. Like it should be more modern and have a much more thickly populated world closer to our own, but then you step outside and that world just isn't there.
|
|
#
?
Jul 8, 2014 23:55
|
|
|
Bifauxnen posted:The FF8 world always felt so abnormally empty to me, too. Even though it's no worse than any other JRPG of its time - it was a staple of the genre to have little isolated towns floating around in a big vast overworld. But FF8's detailed city backgrounds made it seem a lot more jarring than usual. Like it should be more modern and have a much more thickly populated world closer to our own, but then you step outside and that world just isn't there. All this talk about FF8 makes me want to play it again. I do own it on steam, along with FF7 which this LP is making me want to play again....Hmm. Edit: To respond to it being empty, it doesn't help when you can't even ACCESS the very few populated towns at the end of the game. Silegna fucked around with this message at 00:38 on Jul 9, 2014 |
|
#
?
Jul 9, 2014 00:34
|
|
|
Play the first disc or two of 8, then stop and play something else. Best solution.
|
|
#
?
Jul 9, 2014 00:39
|
|
|
Pesky Splinter posted:VIII's plot is basically a jumble of individual stories that, by themselves, would more than be sufficent for a narrative. Agreed. As a teenager I hated replaying VIII because I thought it didn't flow very well. But I loved the ending. On the flip side, I really liked VII's progression but was confused by some of the plot points and the ending, so I almost never finished endgame/postgame stuff. Now that I'm older and understand both games a bit better, I realize VII is the superior game in pretty much every way.
|
|
#
?
Jul 9, 2014 00:45
|
|
|
Bregor posted:Agreed. As a teenager I hated replaying VIII because I thought it didn't flow very well. But I loved the ending. Yes, it is. The plot is a bit strange, but it's a charming game. Though it hasn't aged well.
|
|
#
?
Jul 9, 2014 00:58
|
|
|
Bifauxnen posted:The FF8 world always felt so abnormally empty to me, too. Even though it's no worse than any other JRPG of its time - it was a staple of the genre to have little isolated towns floating around in a big vast overworld. But FF8's detailed city backgrounds made it seem a lot more jarring than usual. Like it should be more modern and have a much more thickly populated world closer to our own, but then you step outside and that world just isn't there. It looks semi-coherent for the first disc and a half, where everything is connected by roads and railways. Then once you get to pilot the Garden, you get to Shumi and Trabia and wonder how the people there get anywhere. Especially considering Selphie's dress code.
|
|
#
?
Jul 9, 2014 01:01
|
|
|
ApplesandOranges posted:It looks semi-coherent for the first disc and a half, where everything is connected by roads and railways. Then once you get to pilot the Garden, you get to Shumi and Trabia and wonder how the people there get anywhere. Isn't selphie the one who can't be rotated on her Z axis because of her outfit? I don't get that she is NOT cold up in Trabia dressed in Overalls and a skirt.
|
|
#
?
Jul 9, 2014 01:13
|
|
|
But it is nice when you get to Esthar and see a proper-sized city that fills half a continent. You don't even have to pretend that there's a thousand houses just off-screen like you do in places like Galbadia.
|
|
#
?
Jul 9, 2014 20:47
|
|
|
I have the same problem with VIII as you all do with the world feeling lifeless and small and the multiple plotlines that never thread together in a cohesive, satisfying way. The disparity between Gardens and their countries are jarring, Balamb is ridiculous and Trabia doesn't even get a town. Even Esthar feels empty as hell, it is like 4 screens of running on an elevated road in front of a background of blue, sterile skyscrapers with no other movement and almost no people. Even the goddamn shopping mall is just a few computer kiosks as opposed to Wall Market. Actually walking around the whole place is a fraction of the size of Midgar's train tunnels, and if you count the NPCs in the train sequences Esthar has even less interaction and characterization going on, let alone compared to the whole of Midgar-- and Esthar is as big as it gets. It fills up the world map some, sure, but at least you can enter some of the houses in Galbadia. VII's towns make sense in the context of Shinra's domination; they aren't designated as being entire countries as they are in VIII. Everywhere in the world the locals got used up and poo poo out, or became a tourist destination, and often both. Evidence that there used to be more to these places and they are now insignificant and depressed helps the story rather than detracts from it, especially in regards to Wutai, the slums, Corel, and Gongaga. And at the end you can go back to all of those places and talk to those individuals to finish subplots and see how they are responding to events, they aren't just magically off limits forever. IX did a pretty great job with its cities and making its countries feel like real countries, Burmecia withstanding, though it still went and made most places off limits towards the end.
|
|
#
?
Jul 9, 2014 21:37
|
|
|
It's kind of funny because FF8 is sort of set in a post-apocalyptic world, but good job reading the datalogs if you caught that before the final plot dump. Maybe it wouldn't feel so jarring if they bothered to explain the world a bit, because honestly the parts of the world map that aren't supposed to be exploded by monsters aren't that bad.
|
|
#
?
Jul 9, 2014 22:33
|
|
|
BioMe posted:It's kind of funny because FF8 is sort of set in a post-apocalyptic world, but good job reading the datalogs if you caught that before the final plot dump. Maybe it wouldn't feel so jarring if they bothered to explain the world a bit, because honestly the parts of the world map that aren't supposed to be exploded by monsters aren't that bad. And everyone is so stylish. And there doesn't seem to be any real scarcity of resources. And most of the towns seem pretty cheerful (if empty). Honestly, even the battle cutscenes in that game didn't seem terribly war-like. Everything was so sterile. Even the Garden battle seemed really... not-urgent. Maybe that's why it took me seven years and five restarts to finish that game... nothing seemed important. <generic bitching about Squall's attitude here>
|
|
#
?
Jul 10, 2014 00:07
|
|
|
I'm surprised nobody's mentioned thevoiceofdog's LP stream of FF8, including thevoiceofdog, assuming he's viewing this thread. It's even finished and everything. So, yeah.
|
|
#
?
Jul 10, 2014 14:57
|
|
|
Old JRPG towns are small due to a plethora of reasons. Some of them: Technically: 1) Memory limitation. 2) Rendering limitation (for 3D games mostly). Design-wise: 3) Easier on the player's brain to memorize a few landmarks and the city layout. Less clutter. 4) Layouts can be more intuitive. You don't need to look for something. Just look at the BG screen you're at and you'll probably see a building with a weapon sign, there's your weapon seller. 5) If you make a really small town most people will notice it but they'll understand the town is a representation of something bigger. If you try to go realistic and fail at conveying a real-size town things will look and feel very, very awkward. All these go very well with each other and thus you have tiny "towns" made of 3-4 buildings. 5) has plenty of workarounds - FF8 tried to implement some by making you see only certain parts of the cities, take taxis to other districts, etc. It's very hard to implement big cities in games without making them feel very fatiguing.
|
|
#
?
Jul 11, 2014 08:36
|
|
|
The approach taken in eg Xenogears works pretty well - city map with small regions you can enter.
|
|
#
?
Jul 11, 2014 08:50
|
|
|
I thought FF9 did an excellent job making gigantic cities that feel alive, while realistically only being six or seven screens big for the most part. 12 also had big cities, but they were a pain more than anything, because they were just gigantic messes you navigated to reach the next goal with nothing to actually do in them, as opposed to being used as a dungeon of sorts, is the FF9 towns. Minera fucked around with this message at 08:56 on Jul 11, 2014 |
|
#
?
Jul 11, 2014 08:54
|
|
|
If you look at the maps for cities in 12, you'll see that they are all just small corridors with no particular point to them.
|
|
#
?
Jul 11, 2014 12:09
|
|
|
Attitude Indicator posted:If you look at the maps for cities in 12, you'll see that they are all just small corridors with no particular point to them. If you look at your surroundings in 12, you'll see that the corridors are made to look like bustling city streets with lots of shops and residences, whether you can go into every door or not. I agree that they're a bit large and tedious, but most RPG cities are either ovals or corridors with shops stuck to the side, if you just look at the map. I, personally, felt that 12 did a decent job of making cities feel like cities.
|
|
#
?
Jul 11, 2014 13:08
|
|
|
TravBot posted:If you look at your surroundings in 12, you'll see that the corridors are made to look like bustling city streets with lots of shops and residences, whether you can go into every door or not. I agree that they're a bit large and tedious, but most RPG cities are either ovals or corridors with shops stuck to the side, if you just look at the map. I, personally, felt that 12 did a decent job of making cities feel like cities. Yeah, it seems like they did fill them up with as much NPCs as possible, even if the majority are non-interactable (and quite a few are) Attitude Indicator posted:If you look at the maps for cities in 12, you'll see that they are all just small corridors with no particular point to them. Patently false.    And on those where it does look corridorish it's alleviated by good, consistent art direction. The only village/town that is a single unbroken set of corridors is Eruyt Village (where the viera are) and yet still the place is really quite gorgeous.
|
|
#
?
Jul 11, 2014 13:20
|
|
|
Rigged Death Trap posted:Yeah, it seems like they did fill them up with as much NPCs as possible, even if the majority are non-interactable (and quite a few are) And that was one of my favorite decisions of theirs. Who walks around a city and speaks to literally everybody and expects to get a response? Most people wouldn't give you the time of day, and I'm sure this would be true in fantasy settings too.
|
|
#
?
Jul 11, 2014 13:31
|
|
|
TravBot posted:And that was one of my favorite decisions of theirs. Who walks around a city and speaks to literally everybody and expects to get a response? Most people wouldn't give you the time of day, and I'm sure this would be true in fantasy settings too. I can kind of justify it in worlds where adventurer types are few and far between. Everyone wants you to fetch quest for them cause no one else can do it.
|
|
#
?
Jul 11, 2014 13:34
|
|
|
Rigged Death Trap posted:
Eh, theyre not linear, but still mostly corridors. all the cities in 12 felt very cramped, like the whole place was back-allyes. that was my impression of it anyway, but I haven't played it since release. Art direction was pretty good yeah
|
|
#
?
Jul 11, 2014 13:45
|
|
|
Elentor posted:Old JRPG towns are small due to a plethora of reasons. Yes, I can't possibly imagine a place like Vivec in a JRPG.
|
|
#
?
Jul 11, 2014 15:33
|
|
|
Even Vivec is tiny compared to Daggerfall. But then again, almost every single house there was a hollow cardboard box with no interactivity or features. And the city was entirely flat. But it was big! *EDIT* That is, Daggerfall in the game Daggerfall was huge. Didn't play teso but it's probably about a dozen buildings and an auction house in that game.
|
|
#
?
Jul 11, 2014 16:17
|
|
|
waah posted:Yes, I can't possibly imagine a place like Vivec in a JRPG. My first thought was Balmora. Vivec is probably the most JRPG-like place in Morrowind. All the Cantons would make it like a larger Beginner's hall from Sector 7, with lots of people and shops just on different floors. It's just missing a two-tone demi-God in the basement.
|
|
#
?
Jul 11, 2014 16:25
|
|
|
A JRPG with a town like the one in the Quest for Glory 2 would be hilarious to watch. FYI, QfG2 is a game where you're told that to buy the town map (for fast travel) you need to change you money at the money changer. The money changer is on the other side of the city and you get there following the map seller's directions like "at the next right turn turn left". You get your currency changed and suddenly realize that you need to get back to the starting point. After you eventually make it there, that simple map is like a drop of water in the desert. Then, there's the starting town in Ishar 3. And on the less insane side of the scale there's Tarant.
|
|
#
?
Jul 11, 2014 16:30
|
|
|
Weavered posted:My first thought was Balmora. Vivec is probably the most JRPG-like place in Morrowind. All the Cantons would make it like a larger Beginner's hall from Sector 7, with lots of people and shops just on different floors. It's just missing a two-tone demi-God in the basement. Which one was the one with the giant crab shell, cause that was the coolest city with the coolest dudes (it was Ald'run). The city on the Northeast coast (Sadrith Mora) felt the most like a JRPG town to me with it built around a giant mushshroom. To me it had that Guadosalam (from FFX) feel to it. However Gus Hobbleton is right, Vivec is probably more like Midgar than I first thought. It existed to be big. But Midgar had more character. Vivec just had hundreds of doors for you to open so you could steal everyone's pottery to sell. Of course now I am dangerously close to wanting to reinstall Morrowind.
|
|
#
?
Jul 11, 2014 16:54
|
|
|
Why would you ever uninstall Morrowind?
|
|
#
?
Jul 11, 2014 17:54
|
|
|
I'm probably going to get hate for this, but I really don't like the Morrowind games. I personally feel like they take open-world too far and use it as an excuse to disregard designing around pacing. I understand a lot of people like them for a variety of reasons, but I really dislike them for my own.
|
|
#
?
Jul 11, 2014 18:28
|
|
|
There is only one Morrowind game, although it had two expansions. 
|
|
#
?
Jul 11, 2014 22:44
|
|
|
Minrad posted:I thought FF9 did an excellent job making gigantic cities that feel alive, while realistically only being six or seven screens big for the most part. Arcadia still haunts me to this day. It seems like it's almost inevitable that a game's largest city will also have a tedious mandatory fetch quest requiring you to hunt down specific NPCs.
|
|
#
?
Jul 11, 2014 22:48
|
|
|
SelenicMartian posted:A JRPG with a town like the one in the Quest for Glory 2 would be hilarious to watch. That was pretty much the copy protection for qfg2 though, the game came with a physical map with street names and you were told the street the money seller lives on.
|
|
#
?
Jul 12, 2014 01:12
|
|
|
This discussion reminded me of something I've been trying to get down for a while, for whatever weird obsessive reason. Can someone help me complete a list of RPGs that feature cool industrial/high tech cities? Here's what I've got so far (i.e. what I've played, basically.) FF VI Chrono Trigger (Counting kingdom of Zeal although that's questionable) FF VII, of course FF VIII FF XI (Lindblum) Star Ocean 2 Saga Frontier Phantasy Star II Xenogears FF X (Bevelle) FFXII Shin Megami Tensei II Lost Odyssey As you can see, I'm a child of the 32-bit era. I haven't listed anything that I haven't played. I know FFXIII has a setting that falls within this category, but that's pretty much it as far as a game I know about that I haven't played. And XIII doesn't really let the player explore those city areas, does it?
|
|
#
?
Jul 15, 2014 06:49
|
|
|
SMERSH Mouth posted:This discussion reminded me of something I've been trying to get down for a while, for whatever weird obsessive reason. Dark Cloud 2 for the PS2 had future versions of every town you rebuilt in the present time. Not RPGs, but Snatcher, Blade Runner and Beneath a Steel Sky are all adventure games where you can explore at least a portion of their respective industrial/future cities.
|
|
#
?
Jul 15, 2014 07:22
|
|
|
FFXIII really doesn't let you explore much, no. It's very pretty at least? You might at least see some neat design. XIII-2 is a little less railroaded and has some cool high-tech cityscape.
|
|
#
?
Jul 15, 2014 07:33
|
|
|
Resonance of Fate is entirely set in a decaying city of gears.
|
|
#
?
Jul 15, 2014 07:47
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 11, 2024 09:32 |
|
|
SMERSH Mouth posted:This discussion reminded me of something I've been trying to get down for a while, for whatever weird obsessive reason. A complete list would probably be hundreds of titles. Breath of Fire V is what comes to mind for me, especially since a couple pages back we had a giant discussion about that series. The entire game takes place in a decaying high-tech underground complex -- where the driving goal of the protagonists is to get to the surface.
|
|
#
?
Jul 15, 2014 08:14
|
|
