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I picked up the New Sun books by Gene Wolfe a little while back because of the recommendation in this thread and they have exceeded all my expectations. I can't speak for his other work, but these books are masterpieces.
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Jul 12, 2014 19:40
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oxsnard posted:This is a good point. Alexander Dumas' works were seen as pulp serialized garbage among many scholars at the time they were released. The Count of Monte Cristo is hands down my favorite novel of all time. In particular the depiction of life in France at the time along with the characters and observations of human nature still get to me every time I read it. While there's no doubt much of today's popular fiction is destined to be forgotten in the future, there are plenty of books the future will see as classics, perhaps for reasons we can't currently foresee. I think French culture will probably make a bigger impact on future generations than Westeros culture.
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Jul 12, 2014 20:39
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Mr. Squishy posted:Speaking of, I picked up his Peace cheap the other day because of a vague recollection of the name (probably from a post of yours) and a lack of rocket-ships on the cover. Should I get round to it sooner rather than later? Yes. It's a book that defies short, punchy descriptions, but "Slaughterhouse Five as written by Nabokov" isn't terribly far off the mark. edit: I wrote a terrible review of Peace that nonetheless contains some tips for making the first hundred pages or so a little bit less confusing. Popular Human fucked around with this message at 21:07 on Jul 12, 2014 |
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Jul 12, 2014 21:05
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Bad
rest his guts fucked around with this message at 16:14 on Jun 24, 2019 |
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Jul 12, 2014 21:19
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Popular Human posted:"Slaughterhouse Five as written by Nabokov" Guess I'll go check out Gene Wolfe's Peace and maybe the Book of the New Sun stuff.
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Jul 12, 2014 21:24
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Yeah, there's no military stuff or anything in it, but like Billy Pilgrim, the protagonist of Peace is "unstuck in time" - traveling back and forth through his life while the present-day version of him (a dying invalid) wanders around his increasingly labyrinthine and creepy-rear end mansion. It's my favorite Gene Wolfe novel and one of my all-time favorites, and I'd love for more people to read it since it definitely warrants discussion. On that note, I should probably stop talking about Gene Wolfe so much in the one "let's talk about good literature and not loving science fiction and fantasy for once" thread we have.
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Jul 12, 2014 21:35
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Stop talking about grr martin in this thread or I will commit murder suicide.
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Jul 13, 2014 00:00
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I am reading Memoirs of my Mental Illness since I made the mistake of letting someone borrow the book I was reading and its a really good look at well, being crazy. You can sit there and read these crazy insane things like magical thinking and realise that some one legit believed these were real. Coupled with the letter he sends to one of the uhhh asylum wardens or whatever its called you can tell he still believes a lot of what he wrote, at least partially. Its fascinating and even though I am only part way in I would say its most definently worth reading.
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Jul 13, 2014 00:06
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Trying to figure out what is going to endure the centuries is a fool's game. It's really hard to say what will have a long and lasting impact on culture, especially when good ol' Shakespeare and all his bawdy antics are plenty long lasting. I doubt people are going to be discussing Harry Potter in 200 years but who the gently caress knows? The quality of a book doesn't assure its longevity in public memory.
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Jul 13, 2014 00:08
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Stravinsky posted:Stop talking about grr martin in this thread or I will commit murder suicide. Jorge Ricardo Raymundo Martinez isn't the author the Book Barn needs, he's the author the Book Barn deserves. Let us all pay tribute to our lord and savior with a roast capon served on a bed of neeps and honeyed locusts.
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Jul 13, 2014 00:25
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Stravinsky posted:Stop talking about grr martin in this thread or I will commit murder suicide. Yo Stravinsky, I’m really sad for you, Imma let you finish committing suicide but George R R Martin had one of the best novels of all time.
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Jul 13, 2014 00:35
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Holy poo poo guys! Now can we get a niggerstomper58 rewrite or a motherfucking grey alien open palm slam in here?
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Jul 13, 2014 00:46
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Good opinion
rest his guts fucked around with this message at 16:17 on Jun 24, 2019 |
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Jul 13, 2014 01:13
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I'm currently working my way through The Forsyte Saga. I say working, but it's actually more like enjoying. I bought it years ago when I was reading Real Literature like Tolstoy, but I never got round to reading it until now. It's basically a really in-depth study of Victorian and Edwardian society and culture and I love it.
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Jul 13, 2014 04:39
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Fly McCool posted:If I wan't a look at mental illness I needn't look any further than TCC, Goons in Platoons, D&D, E/N, YLLS, or the Deals & Coupons sub-forums. It's cheaper and takes less energy to read than some big book with lots of words that I don't understand and will not look up. Deals and Coupons?  Also, FYAD is either schizophrenia, the internet community equivalent of a Zen koan, or both.
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Jul 13, 2014 08:03
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Iamblikhos posted:many 20th century poets tried, often with hilariously lovely results (see under 'murray, les' and 'olson, charles') This is a long while ago, but if you can read Norwegian, 'Terje Vigen' by Henrik Ibsen is probably the best epic poem I have ever had the pleasure of reading. It is amazing. gently caress, Norwegian literature has some really strong points (or, had before we got stuck in a weird navel-gazing literary paradigm). Basically anything by our very own nazi Knut Hamsun is fantastic, and he wrote about almost everything over the course of his career. Then there's also excellent lyrical poets like Nordahl Grieg or Wildenwey. Sigrid Undset is also good, and was one of the first really great female authors to receive widespread acclaim under her own name. post your favourite local literary tradition here yo
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Jul 13, 2014 13:06
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V. Illych L. posted:post your favourite local literary tradition here yo I live in Indiana, and our literary tradition is basically Lew Wallace.
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Jul 13, 2014 18:42
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as a Kentuckian I get to claim Robert Penn Warren also Frank X Walker (also Jesse Stuart I guess)
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Jul 13, 2014 19:06
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Let's see, Maine has . . . Stephen King and his son? wait. poo poo  (Then again we also have Longfellow, or at least he was born here. Haven't gotten around to him yet, but he's supposed to be good, right?)
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Jul 13, 2014 19:41
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He was born in LA, but he's been here long enough that I'm claiming Robert Bringhurst for BC.
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Jul 13, 2014 20:48
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I'm about five pages from finishing "Swann's Way." I like it, but I kind of wish that Proust were a little more liberal with his paragraph breaks.
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Jul 13, 2014 21:31
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Barlow posted:To throw out more suggestions, I've really been enjoying the work of John Edward Williams. This past year I read Stoner , which chronicles the life of a long-suffering English professor named William Stoner in Missouri during the early 20th century. The book does a good job exploring questions about what the purpose of a life is, and uses fairly mundane existence of the central character to inquire into what constitutes a life worth living. It's perhaps my favorite American novel. That sounds interesting. In some ways, your description reminds me of Nabokov's Pnin, which I love, but I never hear people talk about, probably because when Lolita and Pale Fire and Speak, Memory are in your bibliography, everything else is going to pale. But Pnin is a deeply beautiful book.
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Jul 14, 2014 00:34
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dogcrash truther posted:That sounds interesting. In some ways, your description reminds me of Nabokov's Pnin, which I love, but I never hear people talk about, probably because when Lolita and Pale Fire and Speak, Memory are in your bibliography, everything else is going to pale. But Pnin is a deeply beautiful book. I liked Pnin but yeah, it gets overshadowed by his other work. I love the first-edition cover art though. It's so adorable. 
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Jul 14, 2014 01:00
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All Nines posted:Let's see, Maine has . . . Stephen King and his son? Hawthorne went to college in Maine with Longfellow and spent some substantial time in the state at least. Plus it can claim all of Massachusett literary culture prior to 1820. Regrettable I think much of 19th century lyrical poetry -like that by Longfellow, John Greenleaf Whittier or James Russell Lowe- reflects tastes that are too different from modern sensibilities to be of much interest. So much of their work was designed to be read out loud or shared that it's difficult to find it really fulfilling to read it by yourself. Walt Whitman's free flowing style though is still amazing and I would rank him still as the foremost American poet.
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Jul 14, 2014 02:23
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I love reading poetry aloud but I found a Longfellow book and found him too sentimental. I was reading some Blake aloud but the Songs of Innocence were too simple and the allegories were too complex for an audience.Mr.48 posted:I think its a bit silly to try to separate "proper" literature from genre fiction. Any kind of fiction belongs to some genre, so really the people who do this are just trying to exclude genres they happen to dislike. To me what makes something literature is passing the test of time, in the sense that generations of people who weren't even alive at the time of writing still find the work compelling. Much of the literature of future generations will consist of what we might call genre fiction today. Look back in time and you will find lots of novels involving the supernatural, or science fiction that we consider to be classics of literature today. Yeah but people in the sci-fi and fantasy threads aren't mostly posting about Vonnegut or Lord Dunsany or JG Ballard or even Iain M Banks. They're full of unironic praise of formulaic 30 book series. I read Knut Hamsun's 'Hunger' yesterday. It was all interior, with very little you could call plot, but it was so much fun to read and so relatable. I think that too much fantasy and sci-fi as a kid makes you tend to read things on a literal level, so you don't enjoy metaphor or play with language. I could care less about plot - I just want cool sentences. Gleri posted:I picked up the New Sun books by Gene Wolfe a little while back because of the recommendation in this thread and they have exceeded all my expectations. I can't speak for his other work, but these books are masterpieces. That's what the genre lit threads should be about! Why don't we just have threads mocking the trash books? Count Chocula fucked around with this message at 05:28 on Jul 14, 2014 |
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Jul 14, 2014 05:24
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Without singling anyone out, if you can't determine what is or isn't genre fiction, you're overthinking it. Or you possibly might have a chip on your shoulder about people not taking what you like seriously enough. The question of what is or isn't genre fiction isn't some crazy mystery for the ages. Good stuff within a genre understands the genre, using its established components to comment on the genre and to deal with all the stuff that a non-genre book does. Crummy genre books are about plot twists and recklessly incorporate stuff because it would be cool or whatever. I already regret writing and posting this. Anyway its really obvious when something is in a genre, and it doesn't matter except I guess if you work at a book store and are trying to figure out where to put something
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Jul 14, 2014 05:35
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If we are considering works of collected mythology literature, then the Kalevala is pretty amazing and it will help you understand the mindset of the Uralic and Finnic peoples. Pretty much the only Pre-Christian Europeans who escaped romanization entirely until my grandparents were kids. It wasn't until the Russians nixed Shamanism and the Swedes decided they wanted to co-opt some culture that their orally sung folktales were replaced by weird rock and roll and heavy metal with string instruments. Look at how primal that poo poo is. Wagner had to synthesize the Germanic Epic from scraps. Elias Lönnrot just had to take a pen and write it down first hand. It's concepts are entirely foreign on the first reading and Lönnrot's prose was distinct and influential for the time. It's morals are valuable even though it can be extremely difficult to discern what the stories are trying to teach you. "Thus the ancient Wainamoinen, In his copper-banded vessel, Left his tribe in Kalevala, Sailing o'er the rolling billows, Sailing through the azure vapors, Sailing through the dusk of evening, Sailing to the fiery sunset, To the higher-landed regions, To the lower verge of heaven;" "Thus the wise and worthy singer Sings not all his garnered wisdom; Better leave unsung some sayings Than to sing them out of season."
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Jul 14, 2014 11:04
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The Walking Dad posted:Wagner had to synthesize the Germanic Epic from scraps. Elias Lönnrot just had to take a pen and write it down first hand. Nonsense. Lönnrot created the narrative in Kalevala, most of the stories in it had no clear connection when they were collected.
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Jul 14, 2014 12:16
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Barlow posted:Walt Whitman's free flowing style though is still amazing and I would rank him still as the foremost American poet. When people write things like this I can't imagine what the gently caress they were thinking. "You know the guy widely considered for the last 100 years to be the foremost American poet? Yeah, well, I think so too, so now you know it's real."
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Jul 14, 2014 14:11
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Who doesn't value goonsensus over the opinions of literary scholars and renowned critics?
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Jul 14, 2014 15:08
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dogcrash truther posted:When people write things like this I can't imagine what the gently caress they were thinking. "You know the guy widely considered for the last 100 years to be the foremost American poet? Yeah, well, I think so too, so now you know it's real." Not quite sure I understand your criticism. My only point is that compared to figures like Lowell or Whittier, who were regarded by many contemporaries as the the greatest poets of the 19th century, Whitman's reputation has better stood the test of time. Should I not think highly of Whitman because I'm being trendy by liking him or something? Also, don't mistake me, there is a wider world then Emily Dickinson or Whitman and a lot of the more traditional 19th century poetry is quite great. Lowell's "The Present Crisis" is one of my favorite poems and my username is derived from the author of the first great American epic poem, "The Columbiad." Still, I think that in a world where we grow up on Dylan Thomas or e.e. cummings the rigid rhyme schemes and sentimentality of this more traditional 19th century work alienates a lot of modern readers. Barlow fucked around with this message at 17:57 on Jul 14, 2014 |
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Jul 14, 2014 17:47
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It's incredibly messed up, to me, that you espoused a personal opinion.
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Jul 14, 2014 18:15
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Ras Het posted:Nonsense. Lönnrot created the narrative in Kalevala, most of the stories in it had no clear connection when they were collected. http://www.jstor.org/discover/10.2307/848271?uid=3739736&uid=2&uid=4&uid=3739256&sid=21104332018377 Yeah here is a pretty good rundown. I'm sorry if I didn't specify. I still believe Lönnrot synthesized the Kalevala in much the same way Wagner did. I think they are differentiated in just how close to their source material they were. There are also vast collections containing all of the original folktales that he and others wrote down. It's not easy to find translations for those however. http://www.jfr.indiana.edu/review.php?id=152 Is a decent book for a few of those.
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Jul 14, 2014 23:25
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Smoking Crow posted:Seriously. Almost every thread in this place is for genre novels. As Stephen King said, his novels are the literary version of a Big Mac and fries. Is this all you people read? Do you eat only fast food and hate to talk about filet mignon as well? Seriously, try to read something good for a loving change. You're not in high school anymore, read some loving real works of art. nope
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Jul 15, 2014 03:25
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tentative8e8op posted:Its actually really fun when you understand what the three-legged dog/whatever really represents, and your whole scene's meaning changes. also no
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Jul 15, 2014 03:25
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I don't understand why people who are mad about too many threads for talking about genre books do nothing but talk about genre books in the thread for talking about non genre literature.
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Jul 15, 2014 03:44
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Barlow posted:Not quite sure I understand your criticism. My only point is that compared to figures like Lowell or Whittier, who were regarded by many contemporaries as the the greatest poets of the 19th century, Whitman's reputation has better stood the test of time. Should I not think highly of Whitman because I'm being trendy by liking him or something? Your not being trendy, because there's pretty much no other choice. It's like saying, "Boy, you know what, in my opinion, Shakespeare was an influential writer. Definitely one if the greats of not THE greatest English playwright of the last 500 years." Anyway, Whitman's good, I made a thread about him.
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Jul 15, 2014 04:03
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edit: I was going to argue about Walt Whitman but it turns out half the poets I would have preferred to him didn't start writing until their 30s and thus can't really be counted as 19th century. Welp! I still think "no other choice" is an exaggeration, though. The 19th century can't be that bad. 
Tuxedo Catfish fucked around with this message at 04:16 on Jul 15, 2014 |
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Jul 15, 2014 04:08
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Farecoal posted:nope I'm happy you disagree with something i posted a month ago
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Jul 15, 2014 05:11
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savinhill posted:I don't understand why people who are mad about too many threads for talking about genre books do nothing but talk about genre books in the thread for talking about non genre literature. I know, right? Why not just make more non-genre literature threads and not talk about genre books in them? There's a Whitman thread now. Sounds like we need a Shakespeare thread.
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Jul 15, 2014 05:24
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