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At that note, we would also change our vote to the Andorian Elevation Act from Yes to No, which at this point would put it in a tie. This one agrees that such a clause was entirely unnecessary.
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Jul 17, 2014 21:47
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Juvenalian.Satyr posted:This one's suggestion for compromise might have been lost through the shuffle, but again, Viscardus, we would change our vote from No to Yes for the Justice Act and the One Turn Plan under the compromise that you change your personal vote on the Prevention of Genocide Act from No to Yes. Why would I vote for an act that I have already declared contradicts the core principles of the party? The bill you are asking me to vote for would result in giving away all of our technology to all races. That is an absolutely insane policy no matter your position on whether or not the Acutians and Evucks should be rewarded for committing genocide. The aid proposed to be given to the Boarines will have almost no effect, as well, so there is no point worrying about it.
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Jul 17, 2014 21:49
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 46 needed for a majority - Last vote: tokyosexwale  One Turn PlanYes: 41 No: 16 Abstain: 13  Justice Act of 3000Yes: 26 No: 43 Abstain: 1  Tryhard Galactic Standard of Living BillYes: 37 No: 31 Abstain: 2  The Andorian Elevation ActYes: 33 No: 33 Abstain: 4  Peltian Quality of Life ActYes: 53 No: 12 Abstain: 5  No Aid to Terrorists ActYes: 24 No: 43 Abstain: 3  Initial Galactic Stimulus ActYes: 23 No: 39 Abstain: 8  Legislative BlitzYes: 7 No: 58 Abstain: 5  Prevention of Genocide ActYes: 30 No: 37 Abstain: 3
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Jul 17, 2014 21:52
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Cythereal posted:And you never considered directed breeding or genetic engineering to rectify this? Flesh and chitin are as mutable as steel and plastic. Queen of All Hives spare this one if this is the kind of mind it must work with... Lady, guy, or...This one or could ya' give me a pronoun to work with because I'm tryin' to be sensitive and all that, but it's way easier to build a bomb or a vibroblade than to go from 'soft fluffy owl' to 'face-ripping naturally armed killing machine', especially when we've got crops that need tending and all that.
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Jul 17, 2014 21:52
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Forgive my lack of knowledge in the game, but maybe I'm just naive in thinking that giving medical aid might help a race in medical crisis, but obviously I don't have enough knowledge of the game to make an informed decision. At this point, I'm just gonna bow out of the legislative side of the LP. Both out of ignorance and the fact that (probably unintentionally) the condescension that ignorance earns. I'll let my vote stand and remain a part of the Eightfold Unity because I like the idea behind it, but this isn't worth getting invested in.
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Jul 17, 2014 21:54
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Night10194 posted:Lady, guy, or...This one or could ya' give me a pronoun to work with because I'm tryin' to be sensitive and all that, but it's way easier to build a bomb or a vibroblade than to go from 'soft fluffy owl' to 'face-ripping naturally armed killing machine', especially when we've got crops that need tending and all that. Because you've never tried, clearly. Your species has chosen its priorities, as this one's has chosen its. The Thoraxians stand as a species in which each incarnation is supremely well adapted to its task, be it labor, warfare, scientific research, or other pursuits, and is respected and feared by all. Your species is alternately the laughingstock and precocious little fuzzy-wuzzy of the system that can only accomplish worthwhile tasks through overwhelming numbers and suicidal use of explosives. This one will permit you to decide for yourself which species had the more sensible priorities.
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Jul 17, 2014 21:56
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Cythereal posted:Because you've never tried, clearly. Your species has chosen its priorities, as this one's has chosen its. The Thoraxians stand as a species in which each incarnation is supremely well adapted to its task, be it labor, warfare, scientific research, or other pursuits, and is respected and feared by all. Your species is alternately the laughingstock and precocious little fuzzy-wuzzy of the system that can only accomplish worthwhile tasks through overwhelming numbers and suicidal use of explosives. Suicide bombers beat claws and mandibles hands down.
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Jul 17, 2014 22:04
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I did actually decide to change my vote, and edited my original post, but I do think that checking Piracy and pursuing Hydral technology is a Big Deal. But I kept my votes on the Elevation Act and One Turn Plan the same: I like the Andors best of all, and not as big a fan of the Peltians as most goons seem to be. Posting it here as well so sniper doesn't have to dig back, but it's a small change. One Turn Plan: No Justice Act of 3000: Yes Tryhard Galactic Standard of Living Bill: Yes The Andorian Elevation Act: Yes Peltian Quality of Life Act: No No Aid to Terrorists Act: No Initial Galactic Stimulus Act: Yes Legislative Blitz: No Prevention of Genocide Act: Yes
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Jul 17, 2014 22:04
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unwantedplatypus posted:Suicide bombers beat claws and mandibles hands down. Your unusual definitions of reality and logic are well-known to all at this point, you need not continue presenting evidence.
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Jul 17, 2014 22:05
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Viscardus posted:I hope not, because that's a very silly justification. Why should it bother you whether such provisions are included in future bills? You will remain free to vote them down if you disagree with them. Never mind that you are the only one to bring up this reasoning, which sounds suspiciously like a post-hoc justification. To keep this brief: your whole party schtick is "never forget," but you're asking that when it comes to you we neither look at your past nor assume that your present will affect your future. You didn't advocate for anti-piracy, pro-technology issues during the drafting phase (if you had, there may have been other bills that included similar provisions - note the redundancy of various QOL and ambassadorship measures), the most critical period for lobbying for votes. Your reaction to votes going against you has been sour, drawing attention away from your policy and towards your personality. This is not a recipe for getting bills passed regardless of their content, and a stance of "you should only consider this bill on grounds of its pragmatism" holds water only with the Tryhard faction.
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Jul 17, 2014 22:07
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Juvenalian.Satyr posted:I did actually decide to change my vote, and edited my original post, but I do think that checking Piracy and pursuing Hydral technology is a Big Deal. But I kept my votes on the Elevation Act and One Turn Plan the same: I like the Andors best of all, and not as big a fan of the Peltians as most goons seem to be. Noted. In case my above statement wasn't clear, I'm going to make it more blatant. Eiba, what was so unconscionably objectionable to you in the Justice Act that you felt the need to throw a pall over the inaugural proceedings of this council by explicitly nullifying it?
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Jul 17, 2014 22:07
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unwantedplatypus posted:Suicide bombers beat claws and mandibles hands down. Oh, hell, when crazy over there is in my corner it makes me start thinking the Thoraxian probably has a point.
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Jul 17, 2014 22:10
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Night10194 posted:Oh, hell, when crazy over there is in my corner it makes me start thinking the Thoraxian probably has a point. Well, modern explosives are more than powerful enough to take out groups of thoraxians, despite their toughness. Sentient Beings are the best guidance systems and the Thoraxians evolutionary advantages only really apply at close range. So suicide bombing peltians are always going to trade at least 1 for 1 with unarmed thoraxians.
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Jul 17, 2014 22:20
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sniper4625 posted:Eiba, what was so unconscionably objectionable to you in the Justice Act that you felt the need to throw a pall over the inaugural proceedings of this council by explicitly nullifying it? Specifically Article 6 was an issue, not so much of substance, but of principle. If I hadn't been indisposed and had to propose my act at the last minute, I might have targeted my nullification more precisely, but in the end it didn't and doesn't matter at all. The people of this body have spoken- they are steadfastly opposed to Revenganance. It's not a principle they support, even if it's specific proposals are constructive. If you're upset with rational legislation being thrown out along with your ideology, perhaps you should have thought of that before cultivating such a blatant culture of evil in your party.
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Jul 17, 2014 22:20
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Eiba posted:Why ask this of me? Because you proposed the bill, obviously. I'm not sure why you're attempting to spread the blame the voters, who remain remarkably split on your bill. At the end of the day, the Justice Act was a victim of poor PR and deliberately fostered misapprehensions. As pointed out, nothing in the Justice Act that could be considered negative is unique to it, and your much pointed-to Proviso 6 is 1) only in effect for about 3 years and 2) replicated in the One Turn Act, which is passing with massive support. Where is your opposition to the CI? No, you saw a chance to score cheap political points by piling on the Revengence Party, and you took it. An admirable political move, but one that reveals your willingness to sacrifice necessary action on the altar of political expediency. Edit: Let me be clear, I'm not up in arms that the Justice Act is failing. That's how politics goes. I'm irritated about a proviso that serves no purpose but to divide this council in its very first session. If you oppose our goals, then feel free to lobby against us, but to attempt nullification through your own proposal is a horrible precedent to be setting. sniper4625 fucked around with this message at 22:34 on Jul 17, 2014 |
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Jul 17, 2014 22:28
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unwantedplatypus posted:Well, modern explosives are more than powerful enough to take out groups of thoraxians, despite their toughness. Sentient Beings are the best guidance systems and the Thoraxians evolutionary advantages only really apply at close range. So suicide bombing peltians are always going to trade at least 1 for 1 with unarmed thoraxians. This one had in mind a rhetorical question, but you truly do appear to be that foolish. You truly do think us mere insects, unaware or unwilling to use technology and applied biology. The Queen's gift of spaceflight merely finished a research project already near completion. We did not need the Queen to teach us rocketry or metallurgy or ballistics like your misbegotten kind. We are past mere masters of the siege and the bombardment and the encirclement and all the other tools of war. We are not content to rest on our laurels and let the domination of one moment and one situation beguile us into thinking us dominant over all time and all situations. Chiting is strong, yet the flesh-forges graft stronger materials onto the warriors' exoskeletons. The flesh-forges make weapons that reach further than you can see and rend steel as easily as your skin. Make your choice of prayers, mammal. That your species never faces the hive in battle, or that your species' leaders have vision that you so clearly do not.
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Jul 17, 2014 22:36
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Gorgo Primus posted:Please, like only the Evucks suffered under Hydral rule. Everyone's attempts to gain access to the stars were sabotaged and punished by the Hydrals of old, but only the evil Evucks and exploitative Cappibots (and the Peltian-eating Burlusts would have surely joined them had they not been too busy killing themselves and being incapable of working well with others) decided the solution was genocide of our superiors - rather than attempting to win them over to seeing the value of our races amongst the stars with clever words and peaceful shows of great intellect. To address your first point. Yes, all races suffered under their rule I assume. Though the way some people here seem to outright flirt with calling for the Empire to be reestablished I occasionally wonder. I note for example the term 'superiors'. Do you mean this in the technological way or do you wish to acknowledge them as some sort of higher life form deserving to rule, which seems a queer way of thinking for a communist. But yes, only we and the Acutians actually carried out any action against them. Why? I can see many reasons. Perhpas the other races didn't have our ingenuity or the Acutians resourcefulness. They would have done something had they had a way, but they didn't. Or perhaps they simply lacked the courage. They feared extinction more than they craved their freedom. Or perhaps they honestly measured their moral tabboos against the possibility of never becoming a free race allowed to venture into space, and they decided that eventhough they had the means to end the Hydral Empire, and the courage, for the sake of these Hydras they would simply accept their endless imprisonment, slavery and possibly one day extinction once the Hydral decided they wanted their planet. If that is a trait you find makes you our superiors, or more fit to be part of a Federation, I wonder how this Federation would fare against an outside aggressor. As to 'talking things out'. We had no bargaining position. You expect us to simply ASK them to leave us alone and explore the stars. Well we did actually. We were that desperate we gave it a shot. It didn't help.But that's not surprise. The Skylaxians, diplomats without peer didn't manage to convince the Hydras to gain the skies. Our own benefactor Harry, who is the most informed of all of us to the feasibility of a 'peaceful' approach to acquiring freedom, you know what he did? He loaded a ship full of weapon and starship technology and brought it to the planet of the fiercest most violent race in the galaxy. (no offence intended) There WAS no talking. There was action, or there was submission. And I have to say for a communist, you seem to have acquired a bit of a taste for Imperial boot. As to your last point. Many seem to think like that Oh, those Evucks, they have no morals. Obviously, they'll put a knife in our back the moment the next deal is half a smiron more worthwhile than the next. And those Evucks exist. They're called idiots, criminals and pirates, and they're not allowed within a large reach of real power. We may not have arbitrary, often self-destructive tabboos, but we do understand the value of long term thinking. You may have noticed we HAVE built a society and don't collapse into barbarism just because we don't have a weird list of 'self-improving things you're not allowed to do ever' If you break an agreement and turn on people that you were cooperating with, you will not be cooperated with again, and in fact will be made an enemy of. The cost of that will vastly outweigh any possible gain that any treason would benefit us. I guess if for some reason you all decided to disarm all your ships and let us have the only fleet people might get tempted. So... yeah, don't make us the sole military power in the Federation, but I think that's a pretty good general rule for all factions? Anyway, I would advise against it even in such a case. You see, we Evucks, we learn. And while my fellow Evuck has seemed to taken a lesson about stagnation. (I have no evidence the Hydral Empire was stagnating) my personal lesson is that if a race starts to call for Empire, it is painting a large target on itself, and will find itself badly, badly hurt. We have no intention of becoming the next Empire. We've seen what happens with Empires. And for all your flowery words, if we were to regularly come by in big ships and demand taxes and destroy your research and take slaves and whatever else... well... I very much doubt that all your high minded, moralizing talk of not taking such extreme methods would last there as they do in this gathering of people that live free of the 8 headed terrors of the skies. No, if you could destroy us to gain your freedom, you would. Because somewhere inside, I'm sure you're all sensible individuals. And that is why we will not search Empire. That is why will join the Federation, and our long term self-interest will be a lot more consistent than what the moral feel food sensation of the day is.
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Jul 17, 2014 22:38
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Cythereal posted:This one had in mind a rhetorical question, but you truly do appear to be that foolish. You truly do think us mere insects, unaware or unwilling to use technology and applied biology. The Queen's gift of spaceflight merely finished a research project already near completion. We did not need the Queen to teach us rocketry or metallurgy or ballistics like your misbegotten kind. We are past mere masters of the siege and the bombardment and the encirclement and all the other tools of war. We are not content to rest on our laurels and let the domination of one moment and one situation beguile us into thinking us dominant over all time and all situations. Chiting is strong, yet the flesh-forges graft stronger materials onto the warriors' exoskeletons. The flesh-forges make weapons that reach further than you can see and rend steel as easily as your skin. 
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Jul 17, 2014 22:38
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You know what doesn't get enough appreciation here? Burrowing. Burrowing and crop tending. Crops are awesome, you know? Everyone always goes on and on about how their race could beat up some other race but seriously, have you ever tried growing food? It's a pretty jolly time.
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Jul 17, 2014 22:41
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Ah yes, the "Hur hur I'm a master manipulator and you did exactly what I wanted" defense. Trite as always.
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Jul 17, 2014 22:42
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sniper4625 posted:At the end of the day, the Justice Act was a victim of poor PR and deliberately fostered misapprehensions. As pointed out, nothing in the Justice Act that could be considered negative is unique to it, and your much pointed-to Proviso 6 is 1) only in effect for about 3 years and 2) replicated in the One Turn Act, which is passing with massive support. Where is your opposition to the CI? quote:Edit: Let me be clear, I'm not up in arms that the Justice Act is failing. That's how politics goes. I'm irritated about a proviso that serves no purpose but to divide this council in its very first session. If you oppose our goals, then feel free to lobby against us, but to attempt nullification through your own proposal is a horrible precedent to be setting. I find it ironic that you oppose such "extreme" measures in politics when you and your party have been slandering the anti-genocide bill with the justification that sometimes extreme measures are necessary. Let's make a deal, I'll renounce nullification as soon as your lot renounces genocide.
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Jul 17, 2014 22:43
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Shogeton posted:the fiercest most violent race in the galaxy Why do several of you idiots keep saying this as if we have any idea what lies beyond the borders of our solar system?
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Jul 17, 2014 22:45
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The known galaxy. Or rather, our solar system. I stand very much corrected. Entirely possible even fiercer warrior races are beyond our star. All the more reason we need all the strength of our solar system in this federation.
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Jul 17, 2014 22:48
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Leperflesh posted:Why do several of you idiots keep saying this as if we have any idea what lies beyond the borders of our solar system? Absolutely nothing.
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Jul 17, 2014 22:49
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Revengeance Party One Turn Plan: Yes Justice Act of 3000: Yes Tryhard Galactic Standard of Living Bill: No The Andorian Elevation Act: No Peltian Quality of Life Act: Yes No Aid to Terrorists Act: Yes Initial Galactic Stimulus Act: No Legislative Blitz: No Prevention of Genocide Act: No Voting the party line this go around, I hope we'll be able to swing enough vote here, or at least enough to see at least either the One Turn Plan and or the Justice Act passed.
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Jul 17, 2014 22:50
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Eiba posted:I told you it was more principle than substance- can you not see the difference between "we will dismiss these two specific missions" vs. "under no circumstances will we deal with those vile scum" (paraphrased)? I oppose the Eightfold Unity bill not out of a love of genocide, but due to the quite reasonable objections raised by Comrade Gorgo. I can dig them up if need be, but I'm sure we're all familiar with the great flaws in that bill. Thankfully it's failing anyway. I make no attempts to defend the claims or arguments made by my fellow party members, they are capable of doing so on their own. I speak purely for myself, in my capacity as a councilor. Now, if you're going to quibble semantics, don't paraphrase. The Actual Act posted:6. Missions from the Acutians and Evucks will not be taken under any circumstances. There's no "vile scum", or anything close to it. The effect of this proviso is that we don't take missions from the Evucks or Acutians for three years...that's it. Hardly apocalyptic, hardly genocidal. Many in this body share our distrust of those two races, distrust founded on quite reasonable factors. The rest of the bill? Hunting of Pirates. Recovering of Technology. Development of Races throughout the Solar System. All nullified in an attempt to cast yourself as the "heroic defender of the poor oppressed Evucks and Acutians and resister of those Genocide-freaks." (See? I can make up stuff too.) sniper4625 fucked around with this message at 22:55 on Jul 17, 2014 |
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Jul 17, 2014 22:50
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Okay guys, I know these sorts of threads are drama centrals and that's fine, but try not to let it devolve into personal slapfights, please. Keep the discussion focused on the game and the politics, not personal attacks on posters.
Wiz fucked around with this message at 22:58 on Jul 17, 2014 |
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Jul 17, 2014 22:56
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Speaking of, with all this, I've been convinced. I'd like to change my vote from No to Yes on the Justice Act of 3000
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Jul 17, 2014 22:57
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Night10194 posted:Speaking of, with all this, I've been convinced. I'd like to change my vote from No to Yes on the Justice Act of 3000 Your reasonableness is appreciated, and I encourage others to follow your lead.
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Jul 17, 2014 22:58
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sniper4625 posted:I oppose the Eightfold Unity bill not out of a love of genocide, but due to the quite reasonable objections raised by Comrade Gorgo. I can dig them up if need be, but I'm sure we're all familiar with the great flaws in that bill. Thankfully it's failing anyway. I make no attempts to defend the claims made by my fellow party members, they are capable of doing so on their own. Gorgo Primus posted:are the Eightfold Pathers and their naive backers all secret Burlusts trying to get us to always provide them with bloody pointless battles and prevent the formation of the Federation? Yes, yes they are. And this is what you base your support for genocide on? Please. Even his substantive argument that we'd have to go to war with everyone who goes to war is nonsense, as if every war is necessarily a war of annihilation. And as you're fond of reminding people about the Justice Act, it's only binding for three years. If problems emerge with enforcement, they could be dealt with next legislative session. quote:There's no "vile scum", or anything close to it. The effect of this proviso is that we don't take missions from the Evucks or Acutians for three years...that's it. Hardly apocalyptic, hardly genocidal. Many in this body share our distrust of those two races, distrust founded on quite reasonable factors. The rest of the bill? Hunting of Pirates. Recovering of Technology. Development of Races throughout the Solar System. All nullified in an attempt to cast yourself as the "heroic defender of the poor oppressed Evucks and Acutians and resister of those Genocide-freaks." (See? I can make up stuff too.) "Under no circumstances". What do you think that means? If some catastrophe befalls their planet, rendering them hopeless for all time as our enemies, and they come crawling to us with an urgent mission to save the last of them... you'd say "no" and doom them to extinction. Is that a likely scenario? No. But it's one you're inviting with your unnecessarily extreme language.
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Jul 17, 2014 23:05
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i can't wait until the anti-genocide crowd realizes how loving annoying a few choice races are and flock to the banners of the hard right.
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Jul 17, 2014 23:05
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Eiba posted:Oh right, this stunning takedown of the act: Why did you ignore the substance part of my takedown and go right to the conclusion (which was 100% correct and was admitted to!)? Also the point is you can't tell when a war is one of annihilation or not until it is already too late because every invasion is just a large fleet attacking a planet until they can land ground troops, followed by either conquest and annexation or failure. And if you wait until ground troops are sent it's pretty well too late to do much about it. Thus for your legislation to mean anything we'd have to attack any and all fleets sent to another planet. And therefore: Gorgo Primus posted:A reminder again that being forced to do everything possible to prevent any potential genocide means we basically agree to gently caress ourselves over and lock ourselves out of forming the Federation with almost everyone - let alone, ironically enough, all 8 races. This is because we'd be forced to randomly fight everyone's fleets the moment they go to someone else's planet in force no matter whose fleets they are. You can then kiss our influence with the various races goodbye as everyone grows to hate us and our resulting complete lack of a coherent racial policy slowly drags us into a position where nobody trusts us and therefore ignores our advice. Well, nobody except the Burlusts... are the Eightfold Pathers and their naive backers all secret Burlusts trying to get us to always provide them with bloody pointless battles and prevent the formation of the Federation? Yes, yes they are.
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Jul 17, 2014 23:10
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Eiba posted:Oh right, this stunning takedown of the act: Where did I say I support genocide? Please point that out to me. Thank you! I oppose the mandatory interventions that would torpedo our influence with just about every race, dooming the Federation before it got off the ground. As Gorgo seems to know more about how Regarding your title, I guess my sarcasm was lost on you. A more apropos title would be "dangerously naive politician whose willing to sacrifice needed legislative action on the altar of political expediency." Or something like that. Finally, should the Acutians and Evucks run into a planet-threatening catastrophe in the next three years? Well, I guess I'd find it a bit ironic. It's impossible to analyze a hypothetical - when the foundations for the scenario are imaginary, anything can be claimed. What if the Evucks and Acutians would use that aid to genocide other races? What if saving them from genocide would directly lead to the genocide of other races? sniper4625 fucked around with this message at 23:14 on Jul 17, 2014 |
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Jul 17, 2014 23:12
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Wiz posted:Okay guys, I know these sorts of threads are drama centrals and that's fine, but try not to let it devolve into personal slapfights, please. Keep the discussion focused on the game and the politics, not personal attacks on posters. Yea i think the actual voting has run its course and now we're just slapping each other around for the sake of it.
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Jul 17, 2014 23:19
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Tulip posted:Yea i think the actual voting has run its course and now we're just slapping each other around for the sake of it. There's still a good chunk of votes outstanding, enough to swing votes either way.
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Jul 17, 2014 23:21
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Tulip posted:Yea i think the actual voting has run its course and now we're just slapping each other around for the sake of it. I'm imagining the Hydral finishing watching the finals, poking one head into the council chamber, and immediately backing out again before anyone notices. While the ship's AI sobs quietly in a corner.
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Jul 17, 2014 23:22
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Wiz posted:I'm imagining the Hydral finishing watching the finals, poking one head into the council chamber, and immediately backing out again before anyone notices. Dreams really do come true!
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Jul 17, 2014 23:23
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sniper4625 posted:Regarding your title, I guess my sarcasm was lost on you. A more apropos title would be "dangerously naive politician whose willing to sacrifice needed legislative action on the altar of political expediency." Or something like that. quote:Finally, should the Acutians and Evucks run into a planet-threatening catastrophe in the next three years? Well, I guess I'd find it a bit ironic. It's impossible to analyze a hypothetical - when the foundations for the scenario are imaginary, anything can be claimed. What if the Evucks and Acutians would use that aid to genocide other races? What if saving them from genocide would directly lead to the genocide of other races? Also, your indifferent amusement at the prospect of the Actuians or Evucks being wiped out without our aid is enough that I don't have to look for any more explicit support of genocide.
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Jul 17, 2014 23:24
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Viscardus posted:Why would I vote for an act that I have already declared contradicts the core principles of the party? The bill you are asking me to vote for would result in giving away all of our technology to all races. That is an absolutely insane policy no matter your position on whether or not the Acutians and Evucks should be rewarded for committing genocide. The aid proposed to be given to the Boarines will have almost no effect, as well, so there is no point worrying about it. This is why we are in opposition to you: You explicitly placed us in a position of opposition. Now, had you asked for and offered changes, perhaps we could have come to a position of mutual support. No. You branded us as antithetical and shut up shop. So, we reciprocated the antithesis. Oh, and Sniper? sniper4625 posted:I oppose the mandatory interventions that would torpedo our influence with just about every race, dooming the Federation before it got off the ground. As Gorgo seems to know more about how You place far too much faith on far too little basis. Do you think he's the only one with experience here? I know full well what I propose, and, listen closely, I know that it can work, if we're good enough. It is perhaps the most challenging, most ambitious path to victory, but it is a viable path to victory. If you hear nothing else, know this as the truth. I'm not trying to be chaotic, and I'm not trying to ruin things out of ignorance or malice. Okay?
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Jul 17, 2014 23:27
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Eiba posted:You're still rhetorically calling me a hero for no reason in that quote. I sacrificed nothing. I did nothing but cast a single vote, and give people an option. If they wanted your party's act, I couldn't have stopped them. At this point all my act is is a poorly structured urge to aid the Andorians. And it's still 50-50 if it's going to pass or not. If it makes you feel noble to decry that, knock yourself out, but it's a bit silly to paint me as a naive maniac who's ripping this council apart, when the council has clearly spoken regardless. Please respond to your fallacious arguments about Gorgo Primus' statement, thank you. Another hypothetical: What if we had to genocide a race to prevent it from genocide another race? These are fun! AJ_Impy posted:You place far too much faith on far too little basis. Do you think he's the only one with experience here? I know full well what I propose, and, listen closely, I know that it can work, if we're good enough. It is perhaps the most challenging, most ambitious path to victory, but it is a viable path to victory. Can you comment on the below then? It seems like there's really no way around it. Gorgo Primus posted:Why did you ignore the substance part of my takedown and go right to the conclusion (which was 100% correct and was admitted to!)? Also the point is you can't tell when a war is one of annihilation or not until it is already too late because every invasion is just a large fleet attacking a planet until they can land ground troops, followed by either conquest and annexation or failure. And if you wait until ground troops are sent it's pretty well too late to do much about it. Thus for your legislation to mean anything we'd have to attack any and all fleets sent to another planet. And therefore: OOC: If you didn't want people to think your goal was chaos, maaaybe you should have picked a different icon. sniper4625 fucked around with this message at 23:34 on Jul 17, 2014 |
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Jul 17, 2014 23:27
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