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Consigning it to fire is the only thing that can help a Palladium game.
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Jul 23, 2014 04:37
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Run it in Atomic Robo FATE.
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Jul 23, 2014 05:42
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Kill it with fire? It's almost like you read this section of Alternity, mate! Oh, wait, you're talking about RIFTs. Whups. Alternity: The Most Expensive Part of the Book (PHB Part 10)  All the toys you can't actually afford. gently caress you too. NOTE: This is technically hugely out of order, as Cybernetics is Chapter 14 (the final chapter) of the PHB, while Computers are Chapter 10 (Inbetween are Weapons and Armour, Mutations, Psionics, and Starships). You'll understand quite quickly, though. Cybernetics... in many other systems, they break the game over its knee. In Alternity, they're points and money better spent elsewhere. The cybernetics system is a definite flaw in this game, and I'm fairly certain many people house-rule it. So, you want to be a cybernetic superman, huh? Well, first, you need a nanocomputer installed in your body, before anything else (except cosmetic poo poo). That'll be 10 skill points and between $2000 and $4000, please! Oh, you don't want to spend what is, on average, a third of your skillpoints and more money than a starting character sees in a quarter for the basic cybernetic requirement? And you definitely don't want to spend $3000 for a +3 to your strength? Thank you, come again, and don't come back, you min-maxing poo poo, we're dead serious about cybernetics, we are!!! Oh, and let's not forget that, after chargen, there's at least two chances for you to not actually get what you paid for. There's a check (varying between a single roll for between adventures or chargen, to an extended check in-adventure) against the Surgery skill... Which can not only fail, but cause Mortal Damage if it crit fails... And, in some cases, there's a CON check to see if the body accepts or rejects the implant. You've lost the money regardless. This, specifically, is when you've installed enough implants (based on their Size) to push you over half your CON score (or CON + 4 with Mechalus, because they love that poo poo). If that second check fails, as noted, you still lose your money, and you take a Mortal point in damage too. Keep in mind, that's anything up to 5 Mortal Damage in total, and 5 is, coincidentally enough, exactly the amount needed to kill someone with an average (10) CON. If you're genuinely enforcing that cyber-surgery check in chargen, this is the only way I know of to kill characters as they're being generated. And that's one “only” too many. I freely admit, the Cybernetics section is definitely not great, and I really wouldn't mind if somebody dragged Bill Slaviscek or Richard Baker here to explain exactly why Cybertech is so god-drat expensive. Although, to be fair, for the +3 strength, it's actually a great deal, because that can take you over the stat maximum, and costs less than it would to actually buy improved stats, then improve the stat over play (more to the point, it's not actually possible to raise a stat 3 above the max). But RAW... It's really not worth the hassle. What I'm basically saying is, cybernetics is mostly terrible unless you spend big, and cyber-hackers have to spend silly points (10 SP!!! A minimum of $2500!!!) just to be able to use their special GridCasters to their full potential (yes, in addition to the other $4000 or so they already spent.) As we'll also see, Telepaths with Datalink blow cyber-hackers at first level out of the water. But that's for later. Next time, we'll be looking at combat in a little more detail, just to demonstrate how potentially deadly it is... Oh, and looking at (mentioning) some of the fun guns and stuff the game comes with while we're at it. JamieTheD fucked around with this message at 06:17 on Jul 23, 2014 |
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Jul 23, 2014 06:01
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Halloween Jack posted:Ooh, man, I dunno about that. It sounds like solving 80s design with 90s design. I hesitate to even blame what's wrong with Rifts on 80s game design. It's there, for sure, but Palladium-ness is a huge can of worms as well. The worst 80s games I've read so far tend to be marred by adversarial DM issues, a fear of characters getting any kind of untethered powers, and realism in places where realism isn't really called for. I don't see too much of that in Rifts, except for adversarial DM issues. Every time a Rifts game tries to limit character power, like the safecracker, it lets some other insane shenanigan through with no problems, like the cosmo-knight. Granted the D10 Rifts totally does have a few of the NWOD weaknesses(Virtues being a little constricting, Stunts quickly becoming rote, social combat being tricky to adjudicate), but it definitely works pretty well for a loose narrative game. Been playing it for years now and fixing things as we move along after all.
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Jul 23, 2014 07:21
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Humbug Scoolbus posted:Consigning it to fire is the only thing that can help a Palladium game. Has anyone ever actually played a game of RIFTs as written? I've never heard of such a thing happening. I just hear people say 'Oh, RIFTS!' and then sad laughter.
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Jul 23, 2014 08:16
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Night10194 posted:Has anyone ever actually played a game of RIFTs as written? I've never heard of such a thing happening. I just hear people say 'Oh, RIFTS!' and then sad laughter. Kevin doesn't.
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Jul 23, 2014 09:14
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Night10194 posted:Has anyone ever actually played a game of RIFTs as written? I've never heard of such a thing happening. I just hear people say 'Oh, RIFTS!' and then sad laughter. I did. Once. They all died, and that is all that needs to be said.
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Jul 23, 2014 09:42
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Night10194 posted:Has anyone ever actually played a game of RIFTs as written? I've never heard of such a thing happening. I just hear people say 'Oh, RIFTS!' and then sad laughter. We played it when I was in high school. Of course, there were rules that we ignored (The burst rules, for instance) because they were buried under unrelated headings and we just forgot they were there. We were kids, so we tended to go for whatever we thought was the most overpowered nonsense, and completely missed some of the incredibly broken things available because they didn't have pictures/were not interesting. The setting has some issues but you can smooth those out at least through the early books, but the rules are--well, trashing the system and starting over is the first necessary step. The complaint I've heard with FATE or similar systems is that then all those different fancy toys seem the same since they get written as 'Giant robot (model no.)' and have identical effects. Granted, their effects in Rifts are often pretty similar too but somehow the extended stats made them feel different. I don't really have this issue personally, having played more Mutants and Masterminds than is safe, but I guess I see the complaint. Also don't try to restat Rifts in M&M, that is a bad idea. Mostly because M&M rules for vehicles and devices are weird and that's like, what Rifts does.
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Jul 23, 2014 15:48
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Also played it in high school. I think the only rules we ignored were the chances to charm/impress and so on that you got out of PB and MA. The only houserule we added was sometime around 2 years into a campaign everyone's bonuses to hit and parry and dodge were so high that the GM decided to use a D30 instead of a D20 to hit. Why he thought that would fix the game I'll never know.
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Jul 23, 2014 16:04
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I played Rifts when I was a teenager and in college, plus recently I joined a play-by-post game. I have a weird affinity for Rifts. When I was younger I only ever played Palladium or White Wolf, so it didn't seem so bad. This was before they added a Perception ability, so my house rule was to roll a d30 against their ME+IQ to see if players heard or saw anything, IIRC. Now that I'm playing again I'm noticing more of the quirks, like how useless the basic psionic powers can be. Everything has a sad 200 ft. range or less, in a world with 1000 ft. range (or more) energy weapons, which probably worked great for Beyond The Supernatural when you're creeping around haunted houses, but when you're rocketing around on a hovercycle it's a little useless. I'm enjoying the Mercenaries write-up, it is one of my favorite Rifts books. The Liefield-esque art is cheesy, but not aggressively bad like half of Rifts art can be. I like the angle where you calculate the odds of having the stats to even make a certain character. Back in the day we'd just roll 8 stats and assign them where we wanted or stack your skill selections with physical skills to beef up your physical stats, but I realize this is technically against the rules.
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Jul 23, 2014 16:49
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RIFTS does have weird nods to 'realism' here and there, usually written in bold-face and block capitals. I swear, every time a drug more potent than Aspirin gets statted, it comes with a table of horrible addiction and withdrawal effects. Not to mention Kevin's seething hatred of lasers that make noise. Played RIFTS since it came out. Quit flat out six or seven years ago, then joined a friend's game because Friday nights were goddamn awful lonely. Managed to end it because the primary instigator (let's play rifts, it's simple!) left the city. I will spend a lifetime of Fridays crying into a frozen Lean Cuisine before playing that game again.
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Jul 23, 2014 19:54
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Man oh man we are reading for our next review and it is just the densest, wordiest, most incomprehensible thing ever. Books like Nobilis and this new one make the two week schedule straight-up punishing. I'm not sure I can frune all this nonsense in the next three days.
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Jul 23, 2014 19:58
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Night10194 posted:Has anyone ever actually played a game of RIFTs as written? I've never heard of such a thing happening. I just hear people say 'Oh, RIFTS!' and then sad laughter.
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Jul 23, 2014 20:15
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Rushing a bit, but that's because I want to get to GMG hilarity at some point this month.  Alternity: Wait, That Does WHAT? (PHB Part 11) So, before we go into kit, and an example of combat using our old friends and some creeps from elsewhere, let's recap on the basics of combat, armour, and wounds. - Everything is skills, except initiative, which is action checks, and damage, which is based on how well you did (on the usual OGA scale). - Weapons and Armour both come in two sets of flavours: Type, and Quality. Type is Low Impact (Melee), High Impact (Bangtubes), or Energy (Lazors), while Quality follows the OGA scale. Armour blocks some damage, only downgrades damage type if it's better than the weapon's Firepower Quality, and Amazing armour is reserved for Vehicles. - There are essentially four types of damage, but only three are common: Stun, Wound, and Mortal. Stun and Wound are based on CON, Mortal (and the rarely used Fatigue) based on CON/2. Run out of Stun, you're KO'd. Run out of Wounds, you're down. Run out of Mortal, you're dead. Run out of Fatigue, and... Eh. No, really, I so rarely see Fatigue damage overflow that it's not worth mentioning. - Healing is pretty slow, so please try not to get shot up real bad, mmm'kay?  A brief selection of the higher level melee weapons So far, so simple. So let's take a brief look at guns and ammo. Everything is sorted, as is usual, by Progress Level. Unlike Computers, the Surgery skill, or technical skills, you don't have to worry about Progress Level compatibility, because weapons aren't generally based on PL unless you're running some very interesting settings. No, weapons in Alternity remain as simple as the basic system. Melee wise, we start off pretty simple. Not as simple as a rock, but close enough, the humble club. Like all but a few of its Melee brethren, it does Low Impact damage, and is Ordinary (so Good armour will downgrade the damage, and Ordinary armour will only block its LI rating). Looking at the pretty numbers, we see that it's bog standard in accuracy (Less than a third of the melee weapons have any sort of accuracy modifier, and it's never more than -1 step (good) or +1 step (bad). They're also where you'd roughly expect them to be.), has a range of Personal (means its a Melee weapon, doofus. What, did you think you'd have reach?), uses the Bludgeon skill, and does d4+1s/d4w/d4+1w. What this means is, on an Ordinary, it does piddling Stun damage, on a Good, it does piddling Wound damage, and on an Amazing roll, it does still piddling Wound damage. Well, piddling in terms of this game (you'll rarely see anything do less than 1d4-2 (minimum 1) damage.) As we move up the table, we see other fun stuff, but PL 6-8 is the stuff that makes me grin. Chainsword? Yup, got one of those at PL 6! Light Sword That Isn't Called A Lightsaber? Yup, PL 8, obviously, it does the best damage of the melee weapons. Powerglove (It's so baaaad)? Yup. But two weapons in particular (PL 6 and 7 respectively) give the game its own flavour: The GravMace and the TriStaff. The latter doesn't have a second set of stats about cost, mass, or hiding accuracy, and this is a misprint... But a hilarious one, considering it's meant to specifically be the weapon of a specific group in Star*Drive (the space opera official Alternity setting.) So what do they do? Well, the tri-staff is also sort of a ranged weapon, and is basically a polearm with energy abilities, but the GravMace has a small gravity generator inside it that... Briefly and suddenly makes the tip of the mace much, much heavier as it hits. Doesn't make a whole lot of sense, but, as you might imagine, it hurts. And, like much of the higher PL stuff, requires Powered Weapon skill to use. Yes, they thought of that. Guns, honestly, don't have a whole lot of major interest, being... Well, guns and lasers and plasma, big fricking woot.  ...And this... ...Okay, okay, the heavier weapons are fun, because they include things like everyone's fave, the Railgun, plasma, a lightning gun (PL 7), Quantum Minigun (don't ask) and portable Black-Hole guns (they're called Mass guns, and fire gravity distortions, but basically, they fire mini Black Holes.) Armour, however, has not only the usual assortment of crap (Hide, Plate, Armoured Trenchcoat, blah blah blah), but has a very interesting method of handling shields (they add +1 to certain categories, ending with the Riot Shield at +1 to all), but Powered Armour (in both “slightly exo” and “This is basically a human-sized tank” flavours), ablative and deflection “harnesses” (Shield-Belts, ala Dune), and our old friend, the StealthSuit all exist, and add some flavour. Of course, there is a tiny worm in the Garden of Eden here, as weapons by PL8 have almost all become at least Good (and, in a couple of cases, Amazing), while Armour remains, by and large, Ordinary, with a few Goods here and there. Remember, this is a system where damage is very bad , and guns that have better Firepower than the armour has Quality just go straight through. Even the best armour items only decrease the chance to get hit, as opposed to block damage. Don't get shot at high PL's, folks... Speaking of which, let's return to TheDextrousWaffle shall we? In this brief example, we shan't worry overmuch about Action Check (the game's initiative), and simply have Grr'Arg try to attack his very own Klick (a bug alien that we'll be dealing with in more detail when we get to Star*Drive, but, for now, just think of them as “Intelligent, malicious Ticks with special lasers”), and the Klick, in return, will try to shoot them in the face.  A Klick. Looks like a dumb bug. Isn't. TheDextrousWaffle is going to use his action to melee a dude with his awesome claws, because... Awesome claws! Let's just remind ourselves of those, shall we? pre:Clawing Faces Off d4w/d4+2w/d4m LI/O Personal The first is that Klicks have d6+1 Low Impact armour (assumed Ordinary, because most natural armours are), and that's between 2 and 7 damage it could block. It would still take between 1 and 3 Stun (Because secondary damage isn't blocked... That poo poo hurt, yo!)... But it wouldn't be very wounded at all. Also, there's the other ability Klicks have... A bio-weakness field that needs a Stamina-Endurance check. Failure means d4-1 Stun damage (minimum 0). That's every round. He fails, and it stings. Now it's the Klick's turn. The Klick has a Blacklaser Pistol (En/O, d4+2w/d6+2w/d4m, -1 Step Accuracy Bonus), and is shooting in melee (+1 Penalty). Waffle's okay DEX means the Klick also gets another +1 Penalty (Reaction Modifier... Not to be confused with the Social Reaction Modifier), but still manages an Ordinary result. The Battle Jacket Grr'Arg wears is also Ordinary, but only blocks... d4-1 points when it comes to Energy. So that's 0-3 versus 3 to 8. It's not looking good for our Weren buddy, who's now lost anything up to 2/3rds of his Wounds, and maybe a quarter of his Stun (more with the bio-weakness field). Maybe he should have tried the assault rifle? There are really two takeaways from this: The first is that Unarmed Attacks without Martial Arts to buff it is a bad idea against anyone even vaguely armoured (and the Klick is fairly well armoured). The second is that fights are generally over very quickly, and they end, straight shooutout wise, with the winners being the ones who picked the right armour for the job. And yes, there is armour that is better against one type over another, so that's always a consideration. I can't say this enough: Alternity is a deadly little game at times. Next time, we're going to talk about Mutants and Psionics. JamieTheD fucked around with this message at 20:28 on Jul 23, 2014 |
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Jul 23, 2014 20:21
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A lot of the games I've read about in this thread seem like they're crying out to be redone in a more narrative system, or at least a more focused one. Playing D&D 4th edition was a real eye-opener for me, because I later realized that it was very different from other games I had played that were similarly focused on combat, weapons, and a mission-oriented structure. It was different in that it was actually tactical. A lot of games I played in high school and college had a whole lot of rules devoted to combat, but they didn't contribute anything to gameplay except busywork. Shadowrun is a good example. There are many pages of guns, armor, and cyberware, and the rules distinguish between minor variations in all of them, but all it boils down to is that you want all your numbers to be high. When combat starts, you want to roll high initiative, high attack, and high damage. (And more actions so you can roll again.) Sure, there are a lot of "situational modifiers" for aiming, positioning, et cetera, but in my experience there are two problems that render them virtually irrelevant. One, the action economy makes them worse than useless compared to unloading on the enemy until someone drops. Two, they're so heavily dependent on the GM or the players pointing them out that FATE's way of handling such things isn't radically different, just more honest. There are some fiddly details, like ammunition types, but the most interesting combat-related choice is not tactical, but logistical: do you carry a stealthy weapon or a powerful one? RIFTS seems much the same, carried to the point of absurdity. If you have a bunch of spells and guns that have +27 to hit and do 40d6 damage or whatever, why not collapse the whole system down to something more manageable and abstract? But the thing is, Rifts does have a hardcore fanbase and they emphatically do not want that; they want the game to precisely model a ton of weapons and powers in a blow-by-blow combat system.
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Jul 23, 2014 21:09
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It's funny you mention high damage numbers, because you don't need big guns to have high damage numbers in Shadowrun, which ends up making it more narrative than you'd think. Good example, in my game was a Physical Adept. I am slightly ashamed to say I deliberately killed that character off, but only slightly, because the guy could, with just normal Physical Adept stuffs, dodge quite a lot of attacks, and do approximately 10-15 die of damage just by kicking and punching (Imagine a small, unassuming guy who was able to punch peoples' hearts out through their backs). The troll in the group was a fair hacker, wasn't actually built for being a combat god, and... Took a LAW rocket to the face, only going into Moderately Wounded. My main problems with Shadowrun definitely aren't on the narrative end, or the combat end (the modifiers are mostly common sense stuff, like "Are you in cover?", "Are you running really fast?", or, on the opposite end, things like "Did you bother to aim?" and "How close is he?"), but with the magic system (which is focused, yes... But also bogs down combat far more than a Decker does) and the Decker (which is mainly a narrative problem, considering your average Decker does 3 rounds to everyone else's 1 in one arena, and is effectively a vegetable the other guys have to protect in the other... And only with good GMing shall the twain meet.) I still love the basic system, though, with the aforementioned exceptions. In the end, though, it's a matter of taste and what you want out of a system. If I have my own setting and want it to be really cinematic, I'll go FAE. If I want it to have some realism, or at least simulationism, I'll go for GURPS, Alternity, or Unisystem. And sometimes, the tie-ins to certain settings really fit the setting, so I'll run those (Amber Diceless is really, really dickish, and so it works for a game about a bunch of cosmic jerkoffs being jerky to each other while the universe, in turn, is a jerk to them.) On top of that, there's the rose tinted glasses factor. I've said it before, but I'll clarify this a fair bit: I've run Alternity, on and off, for ten years, about four or five mostly large campaigns (only one of which crashed and burned early), and I genuinely didn't notice these flaws I've seen.
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Jul 23, 2014 21:56
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Night10194 posted:I just hear people say 'Oh, RIFTS!' and then sad laughter. I ran it about a year back as a lark. It's possible to make it functional with some house ruling, it isn't good, but it's conceivably playable. It's at least not something like World of Synnibarr that manages to be totally unplayable as written. Kevin doesn't play it as written, or so I'm told, so I don't see why I should. It's just too bad the books don't admit that. Rifts Mercenaries Part 4: "Watch the reruns of Dallas or any daytime soap-opera for ideas and double-dealings."  "You'll rue the day you cross Veiny McPopperson!" Designing a Merc Campaign Returning to the world of flavor fiction, we have a talk between Coalition soldiers advancing on Tolkeen, only to be cut off and cornered by Larsen's Brigade. The commander concludes their only option is to surrender, but smugly asserts that siding with Tolkeen will lead to Larsen's downfall. Dun dun duuunnnn! Finding Clients We get it pointed out that cities are the best place to find work, since small towns will be very hit-or-miss. However, PCs will often have to do it on the down-low, since city governments are often hostile or suspicious towards mercs. There are some rules for using Streetwise to find work, which can be boosted by being a local or greasing palms, but with penalties for being an unwelcome sort (merc, d-bee, etc.). There's also a random chart of all the drama that could come from a failed roll, some of which could roll into adventures on its own. Mercenary Havens It's noted, though, that some places welcome and accept mercs, often with locales connected to mercs, or lawless hives of scum and villainy. The trouble is that there also tends to be more competition for work in locations like this as well, though it's much easier to find. However, it notes a number communities and businesses will likely restrict weapons - "Nobody wants to see what happens when an angry drunk goes on a rampage armed with a rail gun or driving a giant robot." The Average Town Some more ideas by Kevin Siembieda Siembieda reiterates that communities might not trust mercs, and what kind of work they might find. He gives details on how different businesses find information, which is a little odd, because it seems more like details for an investigative game than a merc game, but it eventually links it all back to trying to find work. It's decent stuff, but also makes weird assumptions that healers turn over magical artifacts they find to the authorities. And now we go back to Carella. Mercenary Contracts It notes that mercenaries can charge sometimes huge rates, mainly because the cost of equipment like giant robots is so high. It gives some guidelines for the cost of maintaining robots and vehicles, and notes some rare contracts have compensation clauses for damages or lost equipment. In any case, negotiating a proper contract is very important to mercenary companies, because most clients are thrifty scrooges.  "You'll rue the day you crossed the Plastic Man!" Mercenary Pay It notes that independent adventurers and lone mercenaries only get a fraction if the payment mercenaries with companies do, mainly due to lack of rep and backup. As for proper mercs, it notes that many communities don't have the cash, and often pay with goods or supplies, sometimes even over a period of time (like free repairs for several years). There are some notes that the payment may be used to hook into adventures as well, such as trying to turn goods into cash (like getting a herd of livestock), or strange artifacts that need to identified. There's a long run of modifiers for a character's salary including their level, what skills they have, if they have power armor or enhancements, psychic or magical powers, etc. It also notes some companies pay supernatural beings and d-bees less, because racism. Mercenary Assignments There are several sorts of general assignments detailed:
Hot Spots on Rifts Earth Here Carella notes these are optional situations, and it's up to the GM to decide if these conflicts are occurring, metaplot be damned. That's nice of him. War in Minnesota This picks up on the Coalition's threatened invasion of Tolkeen from the core book, though the thread won't be picked up in earnest until the Coalition Wars series many years ahead. It notes that most of the mercenaries will be hired on Tolkeen's side, and that Larsen's Brigade has already signed on with Tolkeen. However, companies that side with Tolkeen will likely be branded as enemies of the Coalition, and those that side with the Coalition will likely face dire supernatural threats. It also notes the Xiticix and opportunists like bandits or monsters will likely become involved, and that war is hell. Tolkeen: A Prelude to War It notes that even without a full-scale war, the Coalition and Tolkeen and likely to have skirmishes and sabotage. Kevin steps in to note there'll be a sourcebook for Siege on Tolkeen in 1995, and you may want to wait for it before pursuing this plot thread. However, readers who waited really had to wait, since it won't appear until 2000. There's also some notes (I think by Kevin) that Tolkeen will start paying bounties on CS equipment, but that the CS will have overwhelming forces to go after Tolkeen-based forces. It notes that if the resistance gets too think, Emperor Prosek may call for a truce if things get to rough (ahahahaha this totally does not happen in the metaplot) because he won't want to get involved in a nasty guerrila war (this is exactly what happens). "Whatever the outcome, the Coalition's campaign will be proclaimed a military victory and woe to anybody who says differently." Whykin/CS vs. Kingsdale This goes way back to the corebook, where Whykin is an anti-magic community, and the nearby Kingsdale is a more electic community. The CS is looking to have Whykin join them, and might try and manipulate them into a war with Kingsdale to put them in a more desperate position for recruitment. The catch for mercenaries is that the better Kingsdale does, the more likely Whykin is to join the Coalition and gain reinforcements. However, the CS isn't likely to throw a large force on account of not wanting to fight a two-front war (the other front being Tolkeen). It notes since both communities won't be fielding large armies, the war should be short and decisive. It also notes that the Coalition might go after Kingsdale itself, which doesn't stand much of a chance against a direct offense by the CS. Attacks by the Vampire Kingdoms This notes that this will mainly be a guerilla war between the border communities and the vampires, where the humans try and find the vamps during the day and fight desperate defenses during the night. Mercs will need squirt guns! Pretty much what you'd expect if you've read Vampire Kingdoms.  "You'll rue the day you crossed Skully Jawless!" The Coalition vs The Vampire Kingdoms If the Coalition finds out about the vampires, chances are they'll drop other potential conflits and go to assault Mexico. It notes the PCs might be essential in passing on this info to the Coalition. In any case, the Coalition is likely to hire more expendable mercenaries, and may even do the unthinkable: deals with supernatural creatures to throw them as cannon fodder against the vampires. The war would likely be extremely ugly, and the Coalition is likely to get chumped due to their lack of knowledge and overconfidence. However, Atlantis is likely to aid the CS either covertly or overtly in this war in the interest of wiping their vampire rivals off of the planet. The Xiticix Problem The growing numbers of the xiticix mean that conflict is inevitable, and communities are likely to hire mercenaries or even beg help from the Coalition. Though the xiticix son't have the power to really fight off a concerted human assault, conflict is likely to escalate things and force the bugs to become more resourceful. The Danger of Atlantis Though Splynncryth has no plans to conquer on Earth, other forces may consider him a threat and sabotage or attack Atlantis. It notes, though, that Atlantis is only part of his forces, and he can call for reinforcements from offworld if necessary. The Mechanoid Threat It's noted that if the Mechanoids may have survived the events of Rifts Sourcebook Two and threaten kingdoms... who then need mercenaries. They might also ally with supernatural creatures to plug their magical deficiency. Role-Playing Battles It notes that Rifts isn't a wargame, so you'll have to handwave battles based on the situation and whether or not the PCs have any effect on it. I'd complain, but the very thought of a mass battle system in Palladium is already giving me hives. Next: The most totally awesome (NPC) mercenaries who are awesomer than you.
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Jul 24, 2014 00:59
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Alien Rope Burn posted:I ran it about a year back as a lark. It's possible to make it functional with some house ruling, it isn't good, but it's conceivably playable. It's at least not something like World of Synnibarr that manages to be totally unplayable as written. Kevin doesn't play it as written, or so I'm told, so I don't see why I should. It's just too bad the books don't admit that. It didn't work remotely as intended, but that's a separate issue!  Also the Adventurer's Guide supplement indicates that McCracken doesn't seem to remember the "must run exactly as written" rule and he tended to wing things more as he went on. (Synnibarr 3e on the other hand, may or may not function, but I can't make sense of it to tell.)
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Jul 24, 2014 04:15
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Ultimately Siembieda is a true heir to Gygax in writing a system that's just a mishmash of rulings he laid over a framework of ten or so attributes, skill percentages, and a to-hit rule. Palladium's system makes a lot more sense when you look at games of its time that are almost more like collections of rulings rather than rule sets. The difference is, of course, that later designers worked their darndest to try and make the AD&D rules into something that makes sense (someday, they might even succeed), while Palladium just keeps layering on house rules for their newest campaign rather than thinking about rules as a coherent whole.
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Jul 24, 2014 05:58
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Alien Rope Burn posted:Ultimately Siembieda is a true heir to Gygax in writing a system that's just a mishmash of rulings he laid over a framework of ten or so attributes, skill percentages, and a to-hit rule. Palladium's system makes a lot more sense when you look at games of its time that are almost more like collections of rulings rather than rule sets. The difference is, of course, that later designers worked their darndest to try and make the AD&D rules into something that makes sense (someday, they might even succeed), while Palladium just keeps layering on house rules for their newest campaign rather than thinking about rules as a coherent whole. Kind of like common law versus civil law.
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Jul 24, 2014 06:07
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Say what you will about Gygax but at least the very first iteration of D&D was laser-focused, knew what it wanted to be, and got the equivalent in stress testing that maybe no RPG since has ever had. Later Gygax would go on to do stuff like AD&D2E and Lejendary Journeys or whatever it was, but at least Gygax can lay claim a game that wasn't just a huge kludgey mess. Even if you pare Rifts down to nothing but the core rulebook it's still kind of crap.
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Jul 24, 2014 06:34
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I had similar problems getting through the first edition of Palladium Fantasy. A couple of the magic classes just... didn't seem to work. It felt like the terrible D&D '3e' a friend and I did one summer, a huge mass of rewrites mostly for their own sake, only our bugbears were hit points and proficiency slots, and not Kevin's hate-on for neutral alignments.
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Jul 24, 2014 06:50
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Kai Tave posted:Say what you will about Gygax but at least the very first iteration of D&D was laser-focused, knew what it wanted to be, and got the equivalent in stress testing that maybe no RPG since has ever had. Later Gygax would go on to do stuff like AD&D2E and Lejendary Journeys or whatever it was, but at least Gygax can lay claim a game that wasn't just a huge kludgey mess. Even if you pare Rifts down to nothing but the core rulebook it's still kind of crap.
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Jul 24, 2014 07:14
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Alternity: Brotherhood of Racist Assholes (PHB Part 12) ...Of Assholes. Ah, Mutations and Psionics. These two words have always struck fear and disgust into the minds of roleplayers, because we know all too well how easy it is to be poo poo about writing them. But fear not, mutations and psychic powers are actually passable in Alternity! I'm not going to say great, because that would be a blatant lie. But passable, verging on good. First off, let's get one rule I really don't like out of the way: Mutations are a Homo-Sapiens Only Club. Psychic powers are available to everyone, but mutations? Nope, humans only, gently caress you. In fact, mutants are basically Humans with a random table of powers and no extra skill points. One could easily argue that a whole extra Broad Skill and 4 Skill Points is not an expensive price for potentially game breaking power. Well... We'll see. First off, the player has to either roll on their Mutant Origin or (with the Gms permission) pick it. Regardless of the roll, there will be Mutation Points, and a slightly lesser (or equal) amount of Drawback Points. These go between 1 (absolute minimum) and 7 (absolute maximum, maximum drawback points is 6), depending on background, and with those points, you can, at most, afford 1 Amazing Mutation, 1 Good Mutation, and 1 Ordinary Mutation (4+2+1). As far as Drawbacks go, this can be, worst case scenario, 1 Extreme and 1 Moderate Drawback. No, you don't get to pick how many points in each you get, you roll them d4s, and if you end with more Drawback than Mutation points (even though you're designed, and thus low risk), well boo loving hoo. Nah, just kidding, it depends on your GM, and how lenient/houseruley they feel. From here on in, you pick or roll your mutations, and, while rolling is a d20 roll, it's literally pot luck whether you get the best of that category, or one of the (relative) stinkers. For example, Flight (a double edged sword of an Amazing Mutation) is right next to Hyper CON (Straight +3 to your CON score) in the table. This is because it's organised first by category, then alphabetically. The same with Drawbacks. As far as Mutations go, they're all largely beneficial (some, like Flight, have slight downsides such as lowered STR due to hollow bones and skill requirements to use), but none are truly game breaking. Some, however, are in the wrong drat category. Good example, Dermal Reinforcement (Ordinary, gives lowish armour that can be layered) is, by the very nature of the beast, actually a better move, ruleswise, than Improved Natural Weaponry (gives you claws that do Low Impact/Ordinary Wound damage). As an aside, you can't take more than one Mutation of the same “type” (so no Improved and Enhanced STR). In any case, the discussion of mutation placement is just quibbling on my part. Drawbacks, on the other hand... ...Drawbacks hurt. These are what makes you doubt whether being a Mutant is a good investment, and there are no “good” picks. There are, as usual, better picks in the same table (Slight Environmental Sensitivity, for example, is definitely a better idea than Reduced Ability Score (Slight) or, god help you, Weak Immunity... Which is actually Slightly Weak Immune System), but everything in there is a penalty that, sooner or later, will bite you in the rear end. And if you think that taking One Extreme Drawback is better than two Moderates, you'd be horribly, horribly wrong. Extreme Drawbacks go from things like Physical Change (you are quite obviously a mutant, and suffer a +4 penalty to social skills as a result) to Highly Susceptible To [Damage Type], which adds 3 damage to anything of a certain damage type. There is little room to game the system here.  Burninating the towns... Burninating the Villagers... Psionics, meanwhile, is a fair bit more balanced, I feel. Mainly because, while Mindwalkers (the optional class for Psionics) are good at Psychic stuff, and psychic stuff can be drat useful, it's also going to be the majority of what they do. Psi uses, as 2nd Ed AD&D did, Psionic Power Points, or rather, in this case, Psionic Energy Points. In Alternity, these are based directly on WIL if you're a Mindwalker, half WIL if you're a Diplomat who happens to be a Mindwalker too, and the same if you're a Psionic Talent (IE, another class who also wants a psychic power). If you're a Mindwalker, you can buy any of the four Psionic skills, and that's fine, but if you're a Talent, you're restricted to one. These skills are not cheap, and even the specialities will cost you a fair amount of your SP allotment. Let's briefly sum them up, and why they're good, but not game breaking. Every time you roll one of these skills, you lose PEP (hehe, just noticed that) according to whether you used a Broad Skill, Speciality, or you Crit Failed (regardless of type). These points are taken off whether you succeeded or not, and going from speciality to crit fail, it's 1, 2 or 3 points. Recovering points is an hourly Resolve- Mental Resolve check at the end of any hour when the character wasn't using a psychic power, and sustainable powers cost more PEP to maintain. So even with a high WIL, you're not going to be able to keep that poo poo up all day every day. Now, the four Types, each using a different stat. Yeah, it pays to know what type of Psi you want before you start... Biokinesis [CON], or body control, is mostly extended powers like Control Metabolism or Heal, all fair. It does, however, have a little gem in Body Weaponry. In AD&D, Body Weapon was a bit poo. In Alternity, it has potential if you roll really well. While it's extended (and thus expensive in PEP), the damage type is based on the success quality, so if you somehow make an Amazing roll with it (With your average CON of 11, and 3 starting skill ranks in it, a roll of 3 or less on a d20), the club or staff you make out of your hand does between d4 and d6+2 Mortal Damage. Yes, even an Ordinary attack with your ClubHand would do d4 Mortal. gently caress. Yes. It also has shapeshifting of a sort, which, since it's also Extended, ain't broke. ESP [INT] not only covers the usual “I see different places and times” schticks, but, for some bizarre reason, has “Mind Reading” here. Guess it's due to passive v active, but whatever. Most of its powers aren't extended, with the exception of Battle Mind (which gives between a -1 to -3 Step Bonus to combat rolls while it's active... Not bad, but, like all extended powers, has to be maintained at a PEP a round, and whether that PEP is spent has to be declared right at the start of a round...), and all of them are plot useful, to one extent or another, but, with the exception of Battle Mind, not great in combat. Telekinesis [WIL] doesn't just cover kinetic energy, but also electricity, light, and FIRE. Of the skills, Electrokinesis is a bit wet (requiring two skill checks, and taking at least two phases to fully use), but the damage isn't bad for the low price and fizzle chance. Kinetic Shield adds up to +4 armour, but requires maintennance, doesn't block Energy damage, and gives a +1 Step penalty to everything else while it's maintained. Levitation's fine, Photokinetics is the Light spell, and thus nigh useless (1 PEP a combat round, remember?), PK definitely isn't bad (but definitely a utility thing), while Pyrokinesis does what it says on the tin, doesn't require a second skill check, and, while less damaging, is meaty for what it is. Finally, we have Telepathy [PER], and this is, for the most part, utility and mind tricks, as expected. However, there are two exceptions here, and both are interesting. The first is Mind Blast, which, on the one hand, only does Stun Damage, at a maximum range of 40 meters, but, on the other? Bypasses armour completely. The other is Datalink, and, while extended, it allows you to mentally enter and interface with computers. Yes, it means you can hack without all this Grid bollocks, and, providing you've focused on that as your main Telepathy skill, means that you can do what they can do, with your own drat stats instead of a Shadow, and Programs are just things you do. Telepathy rules. Wow, we're actually almost done with the PHB, but there's one last thing we have to deal with. Vehicles and Spaceships. After that, we're into the GMG, and the meat of the tools for creating ships, aliens, and other fun stuff!
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Jul 24, 2014 12:11
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Rifts Mercenaries Part 5: "When a monster's got a cult, who you gonna call?" Mercenary Groups These can either be NPCs or groups for the PCs to belong to, whatever's cool. DemonBusters, Inc. Back in the world of fiction, a man named Cutter is sighting in on a neuron beast (from Rifts Sourcebook), and then calls in wizards and psychics on the attack, even though he doesn't trust the supernatural. This because monsters ate his family so he only trusts his gun and he's gonna kill this monster in the name of his dead children. Laying it on with a truncheon, Carella? In any case, the mercenaries ambush and barrage the monster to death. It's interesting because it's one of the few narratives I've seen that works in the system, where the amount of firepower is logically in line with what you'd need to one-turn kill a neuron beast. Then a elven mage is like "Who you gonna call?" Rifts Mercenaries posted:Showing the elf that stupid, old movie had been a bad idea. The slightly modified song was becoming the company's unofficial anthem.  DemonBusters is a large company founded by "General" Smith, a supernatural investigator, and they go after anything supernatural that preys on persons, though they always try and make sure the monster can't be reasoned with. They're mobile, travelling from city to city, with scouts looking for potential jobs. They charge fair fees, and only fight humans or d-bees when there's no alternative. Their tactics are mostly overwhelming force, but also exploiting the weaknesses of their foes, they're supposed to be the elitest monster hunters amongst monster hunters.     General, Cutter, Lance, & Lightdancer. Note Siembieda mutilating Long's Juicer art for Cutter. Their key members are:
     Arson, Zippo, Delgardo, Dreamer, and Konrad.
We get numbers for the rest of the company, which is about a hundred combat operatives and about several hundred noncombat support members. Also, everybody gets a free water pistol! As a mobile group, they have a wide variety of vehicles to roll around in. There are also - a new thing for Rifts - adventure hooks to go with DemonBusters. There's Trapped!, where some members of DemonBusters goes to investigate monster attacks, only to run into a town full of monsters and get captured. Another is Doctor Reid, I presume., where DemonBusters is hired to go after the Mexican vampires. There, they meet Reid's Rangers, and though the two groups work out, things degenerate on account of half the Rangers being off-the-chart maniacs. Lastly, there's Transdimensional Employment, where a group of travellers from Wormwood (Rifts Dimension Book: Wormwood) are besieged by the Unholy (same book) and need a rescue. This last adventure mainly just seems to be a hook into Wormwood, should you want to go to the world where Fistfights Last Forever. Next: Tactical Stealth Action.
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Jul 24, 2014 14:00
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but is generally a pulp action hero sort.
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I remember Psionics and mutations being the only good Alternity subsystem because the only long-running game we had was essentially Gamma World crossed with Star Trek.
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Jul 24, 2014 14:43
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Man you were not kidding about the crappy interior art. I owned and read Mercenaries when it came out, but I had forgotten huge swaths of it--I remember these guys a bit though, both the terrible pictures and the general tenor of the group. They did actually seem more like what a typical adventuring party could be without being a gang of complete crazies. The only issue I had with them (and some of the Pantheons crews) is that they were kinda complete already without PCs being involved--but that was really a minor quibble and something that could be fixed relatively easily. Also the mercenary campaign advice is handy, coming as it does many books into the line. As much as the core tried to talk you into it with a dozen Coalition classes, nobody I have ever heard of ever ran a Coalition-side campaign. Besides not wanting to play the literal nazis, being part of a heavily-restricted military unit just didn't seem like much fun times, and of course normal military units will be all SAMAS or all grunts or whatever, rather than a mish-mash of roles. Well, that, and there were options like 'literally a dragon' elsewhere in the same book.
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Jul 24, 2014 14:44
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The best thing about Alternity is that the four presented "power" types (cybernetics, superhacking, psionics, and mutations) map directly to the Galaxy Rangers.Halloween Jack posted:A lot of the games I've read about in this thread seem like they're crying out to be redone in a more narrative system, or at least a more focused one. Playing D&D 4th edition was a real eye-opener for me, because I later realized that it was very different from other games I had played that were similarly focused on combat, weapons, and a mission-oriented structure. It was different in that it was actually tactical. A lot of games I played in high school and college had a whole lot of rules devoted to combat, but they didn't contribute anything to gameplay except busywork. Well, most of the games we talk about in this thread were written in the mid-to-late 90's or early 00's. The idea of a game supporting a theme with anything outside of MORE NUMBERS hadn't really come up yet. Hell, most games didn't even like the idea of handwaving things (c.f Torg's "you can calculate how much damage the Death Star can do!") because the whole point of the rules was to simulate the game world's physics.
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Jul 24, 2014 15:49
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Asimo posted:The problem was that it was written in 1983 and the system hasn't really been refined or changed since, just had more stuff cut off or bolted onto it like ARB mentioned. It's a thirty year old system and feels every creaking decade of it. Yeah, compared to AD&D, the Palladium RPG is some goddamn elegant design... for 1983, anyway. But then you start layering on firearms rules and then martial arts rules then superheroes then mecha... can you imagine if TSR had tried to use AD&D for everything like that? (I guess Wizards eventually really did try.) It'd be interesting to cover The Mechanoid Trilogy or The Palladium RPG. maybe I should take a break from Rifts for that sort of thing, if people would be interested. The Mechanoid Trilogy is actually wayyy ahead of its time as far as having some progressive ideas about what a campaign can actually entail, which makes their rather pedestrian crossover into Rifts all the more disappointing. Of course, the flipside is that The Mechanoids has a lot of really dry statblocks and tables and maps, so YMMV. occamsnailfile posted:Also the mercenary campaign advice is handy, coming as it does many books into the line. Yeah, it's surprising that over a dozen books in and this is the first they've talked about an actual campaign idea other than just a having a random collection of O.C.C.s players threw together. (A Dead Boy and a Dragon and a Rogue Scholar meet in a bar...) But it gets a lot of support later on, including a setting and adventure books. Mercenary play becomes a major playstyle for Rifts just because practically nothing else is supported so well.
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Jul 24, 2014 15:59
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Alien Rope Burn posted:Yeah, compared to AD&D, the Palladium RPG is some goddamn elegant design... for 1983, anyway. But then you start layering on firearms rules and then martial arts rules then superheroes then mecha... can you imagine if TSR had tried to use AD&D for everything like that? What is an Apparatus of Kwalish if not a mecha, right?
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Jul 24, 2014 16:08
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A booby prize your GM gives you instead of useful treasure.
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Jul 24, 2014 17:27
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Be fair, sometimes it's also "A hint the GM is providing that he's got an underwater adventure planned'"
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Jul 24, 2014 17:32
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Gerund posted:I remember Psionics and mutations being the only good Alternity subsystem because the only long-running game we had was essentially Gamma World crossed with Star Trek. Of the optional systems in the PHB, only Psionics/FX and Mutations really got a fair deal with their respective crunch-books (Beyond Science and Gamma World for Alternity), with the revised Starship system in Warships being... Kinda eh, and Dataware doing the usual thing of making an already complicated loving netrunning system more complicated fuckdammit... (Because what we all need in our Cyberpunk style games is fifty million ways of making things more rules heavy...  )Evil Mastermind posted:The best thing about Alternity is that the four presented "power" types (cybernetics, superhacking, psionics, and mutations) map directly to the Galaxy Rangers. Three of those I see, but Mutations? Wasn't the main dudebro's laser arm just... Well, a cybernetic arm? Ah, doesn't matter, all the mooks have 6/3/1 skills at shooting anyhoo. But y'know what? That's as good a segue as any to finish up the PHB with... The Vehicles and Starships chapter, yay! ...The PHB portion isn't actually so bad... But after this is the GMG, and that opens up a whole new bag of Fun. Alternity: Playing Chicken (PHB Part 13)  What your example spaceship looks like before you inevitably destroy it... Vehicles, statwise, are actually a nice little selection. Their armour goes the whole spread (Canoes have Ordinary, your average Speedboat has Good, Tanks and Shuttles have Amazing, to name a few examples), there's a good selection of basic categories throughout the ages, and, of course, it allows you to use some silly choices with the use of the Daredevil skill, such as Jetpacks, Ultralights, and... Bicycles? Okay, that one's a very odd choice for the Daredevil skill. Bicycles.   Seriously, I can't make this poo poo up...  No, the vehicles are fine, and are mostly statted quite sensibly. It's vehicle combat that gets interesting. Because it does require some thought. Y'see, everything is, unless combat is set in a Destruction Derby or something, already moving, and most of the vehicles themselves, for obvious reasons, don't have guns. It has four Phases, as usual, and the driver, regardless of his initiative, can undertake Routine Maneuvers every Phase. These are simple things like braking, accelerating, swerving, turning. poo poo to make sure they don't crash. Passengers act on their own phases, and do whatever drat fool things passengers do during a vehicle fight (generally, if I remember right, this involves leaning out of the windows with LAWs and SMGs, firing wildly.) But it's when the respective drivers get their own turns that poo poo gets real. See, then, they can attempt either a Moderate (tight turns, reversing direction, ramming, regaining control, and driving Routinely in rough conditions) or Extreme (zigzagging wildly, bootlegger turns, using a Moderate Maneuver while doing something else) Maneuvers, use car or ship systems (like, y'know, the guns they generally don't have, or the super cool oil-slick droppers, etc), or use the Tactics skill (which generally gives you a small edge). gently caress up a Moderate or Extreme Maneuver though, and you'll, at best, spin out. This is generally the end of a chase scene, because you done hosed up. Well, maybe. See, we also have the fact that combat is based on relative ranges and intentions.  Okay, so I lied, there are better cases... But still... There's a whole slew of these cases, but basically, if you both wanna close, you both close (and god help you if you unintentionally ram each other!), if you both wanna back off, you do that, and so on, except for a Break (which is one or the other trying to end the combat by gettin' the hell out of Dodge). If that one succeeds without interruption, bam, fight's over, go home. All well and good, and yes, ramming's fine here. Starships, however, are a different story. We won't get to see Starship Creation rules here (that's for the GM, doofus!), but we do get the idea that running a spaceship (not just piloting it, but everything else) is hard. That's sort of given away by the table I'm going to give you below.  Soooo... Many... Skills... Notice the amount of skills you would need. Also remember that a single pilot can only do so much in a round... Some ships have many of these consoles either automated or shoved together, but you're still under the “multiple actions are harder” rule, so unless a Fighter pilot is good (As in “What a Guy” good), single pilot ships are automatically going to be at a disadvantage against larger ships. Also, I'm going to mention this now, but anything below a Corvette hull in the GMG's creation rules? Is gimped to hell and back. Don't say I didn't warn you when we get there. Otherwise, it's much the same stuff, relative distance, pilot can do Routine Maneuvers all the time, opening v. closing v. breaking v... Oh, wait, no Ramming. Yes, there is even a little sidebar saying “Yeahno, the possibility of you ramming a ship in space is so god-drat small we don't consider it a real rule... And if you somehow manage it, congrats, you're probably both dead!” Another change from normal vehicle combat is that ships... Are big. Therefore, you don't attack the whole ship, you attack the compartments of a ship (a core part of the creation rules, by the way). So picture it like a fight in FTL, because, essentially? That's exactly what it is. Even down to crewmembers running back and forth desperately trying to repair Life Support, you cruel, cruel bastards. It even has different rules for what Stun, Wound, and Mortal damage do to a compartment (Give it a penalty, give it some more penalties, and finally... Give it hefty penalties for use, force a check for “Does it break?” for every point of Mortal Damage, and finally, destroy the compartment, with all the fun effects that might have. The PHB, however, is oddly silent on what else happens when a Compartment is destroyed. I'm pretty sure that's left up to your (evil) imagination.  The last art example from the PHB... The very definition of  So that's pretty much the PHB! Next time, we'll be moving onto the GMG, where we'll have the insanity of the creation rules, which vary from handwavey to... Psysplode territory. You have been warned.
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Jul 24, 2014 17:53
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JamieTheD posted:
Man, remember Dustbusters? Those were a thing.
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Jul 24, 2014 18:25
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JamieTheD posted:Three of those I see, but Mutations? Wasn't the main dudebro's laser arm just... Well, a cybernetic arm? Ah, doesn't matter, all the mooks have 6/3/1 skills at shooting anyhoo. But y'know what? That's as good a segue as any to finish up the PHB with... The Vehicles and Starships chapter, yay! Goose was genetically modified, which is close enough to "mutation" for the game's purposes.
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Jul 24, 2014 18:31
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Alien Rope Burn posted:Ultimately Siembieda is a true heir to Gygax in writing a system that's just a mishmash of rulings he laid over a framework of ten or so attributes, skill percentages, and a to-hit rule. Palladium's system makes a lot more sense when you look at games of its time that are almost more like collections of rulings rather than rule sets. The difference is, of course, that later designers worked their darndest to try and make the AD&D rules into something that makes sense (someday, they might even succeed), while Palladium just keeps layering on house rules for their newest campaign rather than thinking about rules as a coherent whole. Asimo posted:Well it's important to keep in mind that Rifts was something like the sixth or seventh iteration of the "palladium system". If you go back a ways, Palladium Fantasy Role-Playing Game was actually a relatively streamlined and passable-but-forgettable AD&D heartbreaker, especially compared to its contemporary competition. The problem was that it was written in 1983 and the system hasn't really been refined or changed since, just had more stuff cut off or bolted onto it like ARB mentioned. It's a thirty year old system and feels every creaking decade of it. It appears that that's okay with Siembedia, and that Palladium's first priority isn't to innovate, or to grow their brand, but to provide a living for the handful of full-time employees who have been there for 20+ years. He would certainly like for the movie and video game deals to take off, but he's not going to risk his more-or-less comfortable living to do that, much less to bring the game-as-written in line with the game as he supposedly plays it himself. (I believe Malcolm Sheppard approached them about doing a spin-off game that would use a much simpler version of the system that was still fully compatible, and they declined.) He has the company he wants, and his shriveling fanbase has the game they want. Siembieda doesn't care about Rifts looking good in a museum of game design; he's taking it with him in his sarcophagus. Evil Mastermind posted:Well, most of the games we talk about in this thread were written in the mid-to-late 90's or early 00's. The idea of a game supporting a theme with anything outside of MORE NUMBERS hadn't really come up yet. Hell, most games didn't even like the idea of handwaving things (c.f Torg's "you can calculate how much damage the Death Star can do!") because the whole point of the rules was to simulate the game world's physics. Apocalypse World is a great one for this; I get the feeling that people fall in love with its resolution and playbooks and skim over the deeper stuff before deciding to write up Nightbane World or whatever. But that first revelation--that you can crush a really crunchy game into a much simpler and more focused framework and get great outcomes--that's a big one.
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Jul 24, 2014 19:56
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Halloween Jack posted:To be honest, I'm begging the question to an extent, because a lot of narrative games from the past decade were likely written because the authors found that many 90s games had rules that didn't live up to their concept, or weren't great at emulating their influences. (Mortal Coil strikes me as a product of realizing that few 90s "modern fantasy" games really facilitate a campaign that feels like a Vertigo Comics series. Maybe I'll review it.) One of the hallmarks of our podcast is noting how often the licensed properties fail to generate anything resembling the licenses on which they are based. From Star Trek II: The Specialist in Gatling Weapons to Indiana Jones and the Whipping at a Sexy Student's Face in Exchange for Grades.
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Jul 24, 2014 21:17
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I especially liked that Indiana Jones encourages you to gently caress over the player who spent his one skill slot on Portuguese by saying "No, this is different Portuguese."
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Jul 24, 2014 21:30
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Halloween Jack posted:I especially liked that Indiana Jones encourages you to gently caress over the player who spent his one skill slot on Portuguese by saying "No, this is different Portuguese." Yeah, that's so silly. Indy has a crazy ability to just mutter "Well this is an ancient dialect, but I can probably puzzle out the gist." Why take that away from the players who are just trying to play as Indy? Earn your fun, 80s plebes.
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Jul 24, 2014 21:48
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Did proper mechanically-backed genre emulation really only happen in the 2000s? It feels weird hearing about stuff like that Indiana Jones example in an age where Apocalypse World, Monsterhearts, Leverage, Atomic Robo, and Double Cross are all readily available. (Not saying those are the only ones, but they've all been noted, here or elsewhere in TG, as being very good at thematic reinforcement.)
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Jul 24, 2014 23:37
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