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Kung Fu Fist gently caress posted:french didnt get overrun in ww1 OK, so the Hun didn't get too far in the Great War, but the frogs took a huge beating in terms of casualties back then. Unless you count the Rus, but most of those losses were self-inflicted.
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Aug 20, 2014 04:23
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50 Foot Ant posted:It was rumor. I didn't hang out with the people who handled bioweapons. Some of the visitors told us that Greenland did a lot of NATO bioweapons work. Not making them, but counter-measures. Vaccines, treatments, poo poo like that. Most people think that the bioweapons program is nothing but coming up with better ways of killing people, but from I understood from classroom and rumor/bullshitting was that the majority of it was actually counter-measures. France had a lot of biotech firms, and the French officers we'd meet would always brag about their progress in this, that, or the other thing. The Greenland guys were pretty tight lipped, but in '87 they were pretty goddamn proud of themselves at the conference and six weeks later we got a new lovely vaccine that made us all throw up for 48 hours straight that was supposed to protect us from some bullshit that nobody but the bioweapons weirdos knew about. I want to know more
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Aug 20, 2014 04:24
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50 Foot Ant posted:
please talk aboutt this
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Aug 20, 2014 04:33
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Lazy Reservist posted:OK, so the Hun didn't get too far in the Great War, but the frogs took a huge beating in terms of casualties back then. Unless you count the Rus, but most of those losses were self-inflicted. if you go by deaths as a % of population, the turks got the everliving gently caress kicked out of them, 15% of them died in 4 years also france didnt lose a significant amount of men more than any other major power
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Aug 20, 2014 04:33
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Kung Fu Fist gently caress posted:if you go by deaths as a % of population, the turks got the everliving gently caress kicked out of them, 15% of them died in 4 years Not to get into a drunken history debate, but yes, the French didn't lose as much as others. However, out of the Entente, they did lose the largest percentage of population. My original point was that France adopted a "don't gently caress with us" attitude. First, the Maginot line, which was a colossal failure, and second, their WMD programs, which have both endeared and alienated them to the West.
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Aug 20, 2014 04:41
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orange juche posted:I heard mustard gas is the poo poo, but nerve agents are fun too For the 100th anniversary of WWI I caught a documentary that showed mustard gas survivors, holy poo poo, talk about nightmare fuel.
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Aug 20, 2014 04:51
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Greenland is a town. I don't understand how it could possibly have the expertise to do any sort of serious bio research.
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Aug 20, 2014 04:58
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Dantu posted:For the 100th anniversary of WWI I caught a documentary that showed mustard gas survivors, holy poo poo, talk about nightmare fuel. The oldies are the goodies man
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Aug 20, 2014 04:59
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Hauldren Collider posted:Greenland is a town. I don't understand how it could possibly have the expertise to do any sort of serious bio research. Lots of unoccupied land is what i'd assume
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Aug 20, 2014 04:59
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The French population didn't grow as fast as other European countries during the 1800's. If it had grown as fast as Germany and the UK it would be the most populous country in Western Europe at something like 110 million. It's actually pretty weird since historically France had always been the largest country in Europe. Their demographic decline wasn't caused by wars though it did contribute to their decline in power. The French also got their teeth kicked in by the Germans in the 1870-71 Franco Prussian War which is when they became seriously concerned about their demographics.
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Aug 20, 2014 05:08
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Lazy Reservist posted:You can't blame the frogs for being paranoid. After being overrun in two consecutive wars, they really ramped up their don't gently caress with us arsenal. Hell, they were still testing nukes well into the 90's. Plus Chirac even said they would nuke any country that attacks France via "terrorist means." The French have a history of being cocky dick-swinging fucks quite often beyond their means that goes back well long enough to think there's something up with the Gallic water supply. Indochine and Dien Bien Phu showed plenty well that WWII didn't get that poo poo out of their system and Libya and the current African adventures shows they're still loving at it Gonna be real loving amusing once Front National's in charge
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Aug 20, 2014 05:45
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Snowdens Secret posted:The French have a history of being cocky dick-swinging fucks quite often beyond their means that goes back well long enough to think there's something up with the Gallic water supply. Indochine and Dien Bien Phu showed plenty well that WWII didn't get that poo poo out of their system and Libya and the current African adventures shows they're still loving at it You gotta admit, Marion LePen ain't too bad on the eyes... 
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Aug 20, 2014 05:54
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wikidumbia posted:Its major policies include economic protectionism, a zero tolerance approach to law and order issues, and anti-immigration. Since the 1990s, its stance on the European Union has grown increasingly eurosceptic. The party's opposition to immigration is focused on non-European immigration, and includes support for deporting illegal, criminal, and unemployed immigrants; its policy is more moderate today than it was at its most radical point in the 1990s. hmmm
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Aug 20, 2014 06:03
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Lazy Reservist posted:You gotta admit, Marion LePen ain't too bad on the eyes...
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Aug 20, 2014 06:07
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ded posted:hmmm Just imagine that they're really socialist, but yet, somehow, really nationalist It'll all come together
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Aug 20, 2014 06:10
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Fojar38 posted:I want to hear more about the bioweapon programs. FAT SLAMPIG posted:please talk aboutt this All the stories about BW are pure RUMINT, so treat it as such. The first question is whether or not you believe Ken Alibek(ov) about the Russian BW program. All of his stories are basically impossible to verify, so I like to imagine they're all true. Like the one about stepping in a puddle of weaponized microorganism. Or the one about killing a whole bunch or Russians due to improper air filtration. The really loving scary thing about BW research is that offense is the same as defense is the same as basic medical research. The United States has signed and ratified the Biological Weapons Convention... but we won't agree to any sort of enforceable verification/inspection measures. This isn't because we're running some sort of bugfuck black ops program; it's because if you gave someone with bad intentions access to the levels of biomedical research funding and technology available to the Government and American corporations, there is no end of trouble they could get into. After all, making a cure for Ebola worse isn't half as hard as developing a cure for it. (Also, we probably don't want assholes seeing what bioweapons defenses we're working on.) Diseases are far worse than chem weapons because they're honed to specifically attack our bodies. If someone dies from poison gas, you don't have to trace back everyone who has been in contact with them. You don't worry that the gas (or enough of it in un-decayed, un-metabolized form) will be present in the blood and tissues to kill days after they pass on. Gas can't turn itself into a virtually immortal spore form that survives everything short of an autoclave. BW attacks were vicious, sure: a properly deployed virus could wipe out a disgusting fraction of a nation's population, but that's only scratching the surface. If you've got all of genetics as your playground, why not go after the livestock and crops that feed a nation, or create time effect diseases that render an entire population bedridden and unable to resist until your coup de main is complete? Dead Reckoning fucked around with this message at 06:24 on Aug 20, 2014 |
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Aug 20, 2014 06:13
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Lazy Reservist posted:You gotta admit, Marion LePen ain't too bad on the eyes... Zut alors.
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Aug 20, 2014 13:27
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Lazy Reservist posted:You gotta admit, Marion LePen ain't too bad on the eyes... What a shame.
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Aug 20, 2014 14:22
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Bolow posted:real talk blood agents scare the loving poo poo out of me Cyanide and poo poo? They just go up in vapour right at once. There's a reason cyanide gas was considered practical for executions, it won't linger in, say, the prison guard tower on its way out the duct. I'm CBRN schooled. V-agents are what scare me. Take my word for it. Especially those honest-to-gently caress magic bullet agents the Russians cooked up during the cold war that make VX seem like ammonia.
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Aug 20, 2014 14:42
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it's good to confirm that our CBRNE guy's thoughts on how ineffective our pro-masks and MOPP gear would be if someone actually had the gumption to use the stuff in storage à la a weaponized ark of the covenant 
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Aug 20, 2014 15:01
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I figured even if my mask worked I A. Wouldn't have the right filters for it B. Wouldn't have an actual mopp suit so I was hosed anyway
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Aug 20, 2014 15:08
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I have an old mopp suit in my closet that I got issued for my one deployment(and didn't sign for), never opened. Unfortunately I don't have a gas mask anymore, so... kind of pointless. I also wasn't issued a new gas mask for the deployment, so if the Taliban got their hands on anything(lol) I was hosed no matter what. edit: I was also, in 6 years, never once issued prescription inserts for my mask. Or my ESS glasses. Admiral Bosch fucked around with this message at 15:18 on Aug 20, 2014 |
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Aug 20, 2014 15:15
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You can get a legit gas mask at any army surplus store. Chances are its better than the one they would have issued you anyway.
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Aug 20, 2014 15:27
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My gas mask that I've had for a year and a half got recalled a month ago. 
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Aug 20, 2014 16:31
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Sjurygg posted:Cyanide and poo poo? They just go up in vapour right at once. There's a reason cyanide gas was considered practical for executions, it won't linger in, say, the prison guard tower on its way out the duct. I was more referring to the end result. Suffocating while your lungs are still definitely working or drowning in my own blood is way shittier than spaasming out in agony for a couple seconds before blacking out and dying imho
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Aug 20, 2014 16:39
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Fucitol posted:it's good to confirm that our CBRNE guy's thoughts on how ineffective our pro-masks and MOPP gear would be if someone actually had the gumption to use the stuff in storage Yeah, back when I was working EMS in New York we all were issued our own MOPP suits in case of chemical attack. The chemical guy who trained us on how to use them said that they were good for maybe 20 minutes before the activated charcoal on the suit wore out and we started doing the chicken.
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Aug 20, 2014 17:21
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Cyanide's pretty quick. Just BAM inside your blood and blocks all oxygen uptake. Best part is, if you don't die, you get well again. There's even a pretty good antidote to it you can take whenever (Cyanokit, expensive as hell for some reason). Nerve agents, on the other hand. Hoo boy. If you don't die you're hosed for life. The antidote is another poison, which might kill you if the extra hit of barbiturates they stuff into the autoinjectors don't dampen the spasms enough. I loving hate nerve agents. If I ever meet someone who tells me he worked on weaponizing phosphoric acid esters for the military I'm gonna kick his teeth in. After the nerve agent classes were done most of the guys in my class agreed that we'd just slug each other in the head if we got hit bad with it. Did I say I hate nerve agents? I hate nerve agents, and I hate the people who make them and want to personally blow a hole in the face of each and every one of the cunts. I respect people who genesplice plague and common cold and smallpox more than poison cookers. And yeah the gear ain't worth poo poo if you get showered in Satan's gonorrhea piss but it's way better than nothing. Couple extra tarps help a lot, and shave your beard if you get a yellow chemical alert. Lots of warm water, maybe a splash of quicklime or even baking soda in there to help things along. Best thing is peroxide mixed with soda of some kind.
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Aug 20, 2014 17:31
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Sjurygg posted:Couple extra tarps help a lot, and shave your beard if you get a yellow chemical alert. Lots of warm water, maybe a splash of quicklime or even baking soda in there to help things along. Best thing is peroxide mixed with soda of some kind. I get the shave your beard aspect (for a full mask seal), but what  to the rest of this?
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Aug 20, 2014 17:45
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Decon. Just to accelerate breakdown of the agent(s). Peroxide and soda and some other poo poo, it's developed by the US Army. It's loving awesome stuff, works in the wintertime and no toxic residue an'everythin'.
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Aug 20, 2014 17:52
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Lazy Reservist posted:Not to get into a drunken history debate, but yes, the French didn't lose as much as others. However, out of the Entente, they did lose the largest percentage of population. My original point was that France adopted a "don't gently caress with us" attitude. First, the Maginot line, which was a colossal failure, and second, their WMD programs, which have both endeared and alienated them to the West. The Maginot Line worked perfectly. It was the supposedly impassable terrain in the Low Countries that failed. Germany avoided the line just as France hoped, but they blazed through the Low Countries in days instead of weeks...France was thinking of mobility in a very 1917 way.
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Aug 20, 2014 19:44
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Godholio posted:The Maginot Line worked perfectly. It was the supposedly impassable terrain in the Low Countries that failed. Germany avoided the line just as France hoped, but they blazed through the Low Countries in days instead of weeks...France was thinking of mobility in a very 1917 way. lovely place to die though when command doesn't want to give up a position: quote:Lieutenant Bouguignon repeatedly asked General Aymé, his commander at the 3rd Colonial Infantry Division for permission to abandon the position. Aymé refused Bourguignon permission to evacuate, saying "Your mission has not changed." The commander of Chesnois, Bourguigonon's former commander who pleaded with the divisional staff to allow Bourguignon to evacuate, advised him that "A Maginot Line ouvrage is like a submarine. One doesn't leave a submarine: one sinks with it." Contact was lost with La Ferté overnight. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ouvrage_La_Fert%C3%A9#1940
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Aug 20, 2014 19:50
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Oh sure, French planners and commanders were pretty poo poo at that point, but I think dying in any hole/pillbox sucks on some level.
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Aug 20, 2014 22:36
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Godholio posted:Oh sure, French planners and commanders were pretty poo poo at that point, but I think dying in any hole/pillbox sucks on some level. nuclear fire or gtfo
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Aug 20, 2014 22:55
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Godholio posted:Oh sure, French planners and commanders were pretty poo poo at that point, but I think dying in any hole/pillbox sucks on some level. Should've done it the polish way http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Wizna quote:Raginis, realising that all of his men were wounded and his ammunition was almost depleted, ordered his men to surrender their arms to the Germans. He himself - seriously injured at the time - refused to surrender and committed suicide by throwing himself on a grenade
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Aug 20, 2014 22:59
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Not really Iraq related, but with the current topic: http://factually.gizmodo.com/less-t...dium=socialflow The amount of uranium that actually exploded in Hiroshima was about 7/10ths of a gram, about the size of a peppercorn.
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Aug 20, 2014 23:20
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I'm not going through the links but if he's suggesting 7/10s of a gram was converted to energy that's a whole lot different from saying 0.7g of uranium reacted. You lose a tiny tiny tiny fraction of the mass of a neutron from a nucleus originally weighing 230-ish times that. I spent years pushing a submarine and I lightened the universe by a mere few paperclips doing so but I burned considerably more fuel up. Also the Hiroshima gun-type was known to be absurdly inefficient. It was picked because it was a sure-fire bang in case the Trinity implosion design whiffled, but Trinity didn't, so the bomb dropped on Nagasaki (using implosion) all of three days later was much more in line efficiency-wise with more modern (fission, not thermonuclear) warhead designs. Again not going through the links but hopefully they're a lot less dumb than the Gizmodo take on them. E: maths: http://nuclearmangos.blogspot.com/2008/07/how-much-uranium.html quote:The "Little Boy" bomb over Hiroshima contained 64 kilograms of uranium. It was a gun-type assembly. It is easiest to imagine (though it's not quite exactly how it was actually designed) a "bullet" of uranium being shot into a form-fitting hollowed-out core, so that at the moment the bullet slid into and filled up the core, a sphere of uranium--of above critical mass--was formed. One can see that if each of the masses is just below critical mass, a total mass of just under twice critical mass could be acheived, allowing considerable engineering margin. Snowdens Secret fucked around with this message at 23:40 on Aug 20, 2014 |
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Aug 20, 2014 23:37
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http://cns.miis.edu/npr/pdfs/alibek63.pdf Here's a pretty interesting interview of Ken Alibek, former head of the USSR's bioweapons program.
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Aug 21, 2014 08:59
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That's a good interview about bio weapons. Making bio weapons is really loving hard. They aren't manufactured, they are cultivated. You can't make them any faster by yelling at a soldier or paying overtime to a civilian. They also don't come out the same way every time. You are constantly throwing out crap that won't do what you want, assuming you can test it. You also have to worry about design. You want that poo poo to go way the gently caress over there and kill all of those assholes before you roll through in a couple of hours. Bacteria and virii don't want to do that. They keep dying when you set them on fire, smack them with 20 Gs, or even let them float around in room temperature air. Anything lucky enough to survive will either take a few days to spread around and kill, or kill right away without spreading past the blast radius or flight path. Anthrax is the only thing people weaponized in a big way, because you can treat it like a chemical weapon. So we didn't go in for bio weapons for the same reason we wouldn't build a stealth fighter that can dogfight, CAS, do carrier ops, and VTOL. It would be a stupid, dangerous waste of resources, and wouldn't work anyway. Oh yeah, bio weapons have no loyalties and like to wander around doing their own thing. Using them is about as smart as arming Mujahedeen. It's sure to bite you in the rear end.
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Aug 21, 2014 17:46
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Ceiling fan posted:So we didn't go in for bio weapons for the same reason we wouldn't build a stealth fighter that can dogfight, CAS, do carrier ops, and VTOL. It would be a stupid, dangerous waste of resources, and wouldn't work anyway. Now I'm legitimately confused as to why we haven't sunk 10%ish of our GDP into creating bioweapons.
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Aug 21, 2014 17:54
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Sergg posted:http://cns.miis.edu/npr/pdfs/alibek63.pdf Ceiling fan posted:Anthrax is the only thing people weaponized in a big way, because you can treat it like a chemical weapon. Ceiling fan posted:So we didn't go in for bio weapons for the same reason we wouldn't build a stealth fighter that can dogfight, CAS, do carrier ops, and VTOL. It would be a stupid, dangerous waste of resources, and wouldn't work anyway. Dead Reckoning fucked around with this message at 18:02 on Aug 21, 2014 |
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Aug 21, 2014 17:55
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