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Ban irelia, I'm sick of pubbies taking her despite not having played her before then going 0/7 against riven and losing the game singlehandedly off that. Also uh, sunfire has *hidden power* in that it actually does pretty respectable teamwide DPS when you're hitting like 4 or 5 people with it in a teamfight.
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Aug 27, 2014 21:03
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Drone_Fragger posted:Ban irelia, I'm sick of pubbies taking her despite not having played her before then going 0/7 against riven and losing the game singlehandedly off that. When you build it on Thresh it's hidden power is that your ability to provide life-saving actives for your team is hidden in the item shop.
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Aug 27, 2014 21:04
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Taciturn Tactician posted:As opposed to what, a longsword and a half? 550 doesn't buy that much power. If spent that much on AD or AP you'd be doing a lot less than 43 pre-mitigation extra damage per second. The problem I have with it is that it isn't that easy to do damage with since it has such a short range. 20 AP from a tome isn't as much as 43 pre-mitigation extra damage per second but I can use it on my abilities which are generally more reliable than a 400 range AOE damage effect that most people can kite out of or disengage from. If you're playing a supertank and can stick onto a lot of people then yeah it's good but if you're playing Thresh what's the point? E: Should clarify, I'm talking about the usage of the item on Thresh here, not in general. Libertine posted:When you build it on Thresh it's hidden power is that your ability to provide life-saving actives for your team is hidden in the item shop. Last time I checked you have like a 5% higher winrate buying Locket than Sunfire. I recently started to appreciate the power of support active items and it's mind blowing to think of how many times people completely ignore such powerful abilities. pog boyfriend fucked around with this message at 21:08 on Aug 27, 2014 |
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Aug 27, 2014 21:06
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my pog boyfriend posted:Last time I checked you have like a 5% higher winrate buying Locket than Sunfire. I recently started to appreciate the power of support active items and it's mind blowing to think of how many times people completely ignore such powerful abilities. Locket is one of the best soloqueue items in the game right now if you are playing a support or jungler. It makes you tanky and the active can completely swing a teamfight stupidly initiated by your idiot team.
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Aug 27, 2014 21:10
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So, Sunfire's not worth it even on, say, Amumu? It's recommended in most guides I've checked. Wondering because I sometimes play him.
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Aug 27, 2014 21:13
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Roland Jones posted:So, Sunfire's not worth it even on, say, Amumu? It's recommended in most guides I've checked. Wondering because I sometimes play him. No, I just don't like Sunfire on Thresh. I don't like it considering you're purchasing it(instead of better support items) on a ranged hero who shouldn't be a primary tank for your team.
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Aug 27, 2014 21:15
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4.15 Urgot I played two Urgot bot games to see if his mechanics were drastically different. I think I'm going to go normal him now and see if any of my initial item theories are any good. I feel like he's probably going to struggle because unless I can hit a massive back-breaking mid-game power spike he's basically useless late. Anyways, the changes... quote:(1) Basic attack missile speed is now 1300 ⇒ 1600 1. is noticeable, it is easier to connect with missiles, even at longer ranges. 2. is noticeable but I paid close to attention to my mana bar while CSing in games. It still is pretty brutal early to sustain his mana usage with any kind of moderate ability usage, but after 1 or 1.5 items it is actually decent. I don't think his early laning is going to go well in a lot of cases. Once he gets like a Brutalizer and any other component he can auto->1x missile to kill just about any creep and refund the mana cost. That feels fluid. 3. I really don't like the new aiming arrow, I was used to the old style and this throws me off a bit especially how much you want to be spamming his missiles. Maybe I will turn it off and smart cast it or something I don't know. 4. I didn't know this was a bug but it makes a lot of sense now. The gas->missile lock seems pretty much instantaneous now. 5. These are all good, universally his ultimate is better to cast and use. Is he better than complete poo poo though? Probably not. Does he have any favorable matchups? Probably not. I'll burn him for a few days though and see if I can do anything at all with him on this patch.
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Aug 27, 2014 21:17
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Roland Jones posted:So, Sunfire's not worth it even on, say, Amumu? It's recommended in most guides I've checked. Wondering because I sometimes play him. This is just my opinion, but I think Randuin's is almost always better unless you're splitpushing. Will there be cases where sunfire is better? Sure, like maybe if you back right before a dragon fight and you can afford sunfire but not randuin's then yeah, get the sunfire. I can also see the case for sunfire on Amumu, because Amumu is a champion that sticks (ahem) to the enemy team. But I would still build randuin's 95% of the time.
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Aug 27, 2014 21:17
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Sunfire was hilarious on Amumu way back when you could stack them. You'd just waddle around a teamfight like a huge piece of poo poo doing ~400 damage a second.
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Aug 27, 2014 21:17
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Roland Jones posted:So, Sunfire's not worth it even on, say, Amumu? It's recommended in most guides I've checked. Wondering because I sometimes play him. With SotaG and a Giant's Belt, Amumu does fantastic with Sunfire Cape. It has great synergy with his kit too seeing as he likes to stick to targets with his q+r.
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Aug 27, 2014 21:17
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everyones favorite diamond goon Best Irl Cat Na is on TheOddOnes stream right now on OddOnes team. Lets all cheer him to get precious LP! Or boo him mercilessly as he makes a fool of himself on popular guys stream. http://www.twitch.tv/tsm_theoddone
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Aug 27, 2014 21:20
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Alright then, thanks for the advice people. Tangent, my third ranked provisional match I played Amumu. Had a couple of dumb moments on my part, but did pretty well. The fun thing, though, was that at least twice (not counting something that happened at the end of the game) the enemy Blitzcrank hooked me, leading to the horrible death of him and/or at least one of his teammates. That was fun.
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Aug 27, 2014 21:25
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my pog boyfriend posted:The problem I have with it is that it isn't that easy to do damage with since it has such a short range. 20 AP from a tome isn't as much as 43 pre-mitigation extra damage per second but I can use it on my abilities which are generally more reliable than a 400 range AOE damage effect that most people can kite out of or disengage from. If you're playing a supertank and can stick onto a lot of people then yeah it's good but if you're playing Thresh what's the point? Oh, no, I wouldn't build it on Thresh. I was just talking about the "don't buy sunfire unless you're committed to always splitpushing" point. I still like it on people who are tanky and likely to be the middle of things, but want some kind of damage threat rather than just buying randuins and hoping CC makes you worth dealing damage to.
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Aug 27, 2014 21:27
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Roland Jones posted:Tangent, my third ranked provisional match I played Amumu. Had a couple of dumb moments on my part, but did pretty well. The fun thing, though, was that at least twice (not counting something that happened at the end of the game) the enemy Blitzcrank hooked me, leading to the horrible death of him and/or at least one of his teammates. That was fun.
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Aug 27, 2014 21:27
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Roland Jones posted:So, Sunfire's not worth it even on, say, Amumu? It's recommended in most guides I've checked. Wondering because I sometimes play him. I think they were addressing it more towards Supports. That said, I build Sunfire on Leona, since her play style pretty much consists in sticking on an enemy for as long as she can while bashing them on the head with her shield. So in general a tanky character that sticks to enemies can get mileage out of it.
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Aug 27, 2014 21:28
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Golem makes it less of a gold sink, and his passive makes it hit harder. He is an ideal candidate.
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Aug 27, 2014 21:28
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Kerzoro posted:I think they were addressing it more towards Supports. That said, I build Sunfire on Leona, since her play style pretty much consists in sticking on an enemy for as long as she can while bashing them on the head with her shield. So in general a tanky character that sticks to enemies can get mileage out of it. What? No. Do not build Sunfire on Leona. The small amount of damage is entirely irrelevant compared to building something like Randuin's, Locket, or Banshee's. edit: by lolking, people build Sunfire in 31% of Leona games. This is bad. Those people are wrong. kingcobweb fucked around with this message at 21:32 on Aug 27, 2014 |
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Aug 27, 2014 21:29
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Sunfire/ice fist  With a resurgence of marksman mid, maybe j4/leona lane can finally become the legend it deserves. Double relic shield, bank mad gold.
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Aug 27, 2014 21:31
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Sexpansion posted:Don't ever build sunfire unless it's specifically for splitting. Wait, is this now universal advice? So my building Sunfire on Rammus is bad? (I'm serious as a Bronzie here - Sunfire is bad on Rammus and Amumu as junglers, for example?) EDIT: Nevermind, I think this has pretty much been covered in the series of posts responding to Roland Jones.
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Aug 27, 2014 21:33
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Sunfire stopped being worth it when the passive was made unique and Evelynn's perma-stealth was removed. The days of triple sunfire Eve standing in lane next to an enemy were the best days.
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Aug 27, 2014 21:34
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There's a lot worse things you could buy than Sunfire I assure you.
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Aug 27, 2014 21:37
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NTT posted:Sunfire/ if you go for damage, go really for damage.
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Aug 27, 2014 21:37
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I think sunfire is effected by magic pen, correct? That makes it good on people like Amumu and nautilus, who have no trouble sticking to targets. I never build it anymore, to be honest, because Randuins is still so much better even after the nerfs, especially for homies like Wukong who get like 50 instant armor and mr in teamfights and needs any extra CC he can scrounge up.
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Aug 27, 2014 21:40
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kingcobweb posted:What? No. Do not build Sunfire on Leona. The small amount of damage is entirely irrelevant compared to building something like Randuin's, Locket, or Banshee's. Honestly? It works for me. I find it handy more than not. The health and armor boost is also nice. ... also because I'm bad at using actives. Of course I also do things like starting with Coin on Poppy and get weird looks from people (and screams from some)
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Aug 27, 2014 21:42
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Kerzoro posted:Of course I also do things like starting with Coin on Poppy and get weird looks from people (and screams from some) If this is just because it's in Poppy's recommended items, don't. It's really out of date.
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Aug 27, 2014 21:43
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Endorph posted:Sunfire was hilarious on Amumu way back when you could stack them. You'd just waddle around a teamfight like a huge piece of poo poo doing ~400 damage a second. My favorite sunfire champ in the history of league? Shaco. His Hallucinate used to copy aura effects. Sunfire ,as it was at the time, is the reason why it no longer does so. I think it had it's own GA proc too, but it's been a while. Also sunfire is still inferior to randuins in the majority of cases. I'd only get it on someone like Shen and maybe one or two others. JuniperCake fucked around with this message at 21:46 on Aug 27, 2014 |
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Aug 27, 2014 21:44
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JuniperCake posted:My favorite sunfire champ in the history of league? Shaco. His Hallucinate used to copy aura effects. Sunfire ,as it was at the time, is the reason why it no longer does so. The 5 sunfire shaco was the best shaco.... I wish they would have an april fools type mode where they just revert all these unfun changes they've made.
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Aug 27, 2014 21:47
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SuccinctAndPunchy posted:If this is just because it's in Poppy's recommended items, don't. It's really out of date. It is because: a) With a terrible mana pool and costs, Poppy can use the mana regen b) As she is easily bullied in early game, an item that gives you a small heal and gp from lost CS is appreciated. c) Amulet is loving hilarious on Poppy, who is already Really Freaking Fast.
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Aug 27, 2014 21:48
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Kerzoro posted:It is because: These are all really bad reasons to build coin on poppy
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Aug 27, 2014 21:51
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The reason why coin is a suggested item is because Philo stone was suggested on Poppy. They got rid of Philo Stone and replaced it in champions suggested items without updating it for champions like poppy
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Aug 27, 2014 21:52
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Kerzoro posted:Honestly? It works for me. I find it handy more than not. The health and armor boost is also nice. Randuin's is a better option even if you only use the active once, because the active is a huge blowout and can swing a teamfight. Get Thornmail if you want a bag of armor. Get Warmog's if you need that much health. Get Banshee's if you need health and one of the best item passives in the game. Stop building Sunfire on Leona.
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Aug 27, 2014 21:53
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Kerzoro posted:b) As she is easily bullied in early game, an item that gives you a small heal and gp from lost CS is appreciated.
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Aug 27, 2014 21:53
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GreyPowerVan posted:The 5 sunfire shaco was the best shaco.... I wish they would have an april fools type mode where they just revert all these unfun changes they've made. Would be hilarious to see Innervating Locket Udyr again. I'd totally be up for that game mode. Imagine that with pre-nerf Feral Flare. 
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Aug 27, 2014 21:53
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SuccinctAndPunchy posted:If this is just because it's in Poppy's recommended items, don't. It's really out of date. It's actually because support Poppy is a thing
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Aug 27, 2014 21:53
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JuniperCake posted:Would be hilarious to see Innervating Locket Udyr again. I'd totally be up for that game mode. Also Locket Sona
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Aug 27, 2014 21:54
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GreyPowerVan posted:Also Locket Sona Yes!
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Aug 27, 2014 21:55
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henkman posted:These are all really bad reasons to build coin on poppy What can I say beyond that it works for me? It helps me deal with some of her worst early game problems and the late game speed boost makes her an unholy terror. ... Well, more of an unholy terror. But yes, I used to build Philo Stone on her back when it existed.
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Aug 27, 2014 21:57
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Kerzoro posted:What can I say beyond that it works for me? It helps me deal with some of her worst early game problems and the late game speed boost makes her an unholy terror. You really don't want to build an item that says "missing creeps is recommended" and then go top lane.
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Aug 27, 2014 21:58
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Bholder posted:It's actually because support Poppy is a thing even if that were true why would you not build face of the mountain
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Aug 27, 2014 21:59
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Why not just build a bottle instead of a coin on lane Poppy? Drink from that poo poo to sustain your early lane and then build your core stuff (whatever that is on Poppy).
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Aug 27, 2014 22:03
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