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Unzip and Attack
Mar 3, 2008

USPOL May

Alter Ego posted:

Didn't give the cops the right to shoot him.

Sure it did. If someone commits a crime they are very likely to be in a heightened state of aggression and even though the officer might not have known about the incident, Brown did so he probably thought the stop was related - this explains why he would charge Wilson and fracture his eye socket. He thought he was about to get busted for the strongarm so that's why he lashed out.

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Jerry Manderbilt
May 31, 2012

No matter how much paperwork I process, it never goes away. It only increases.
Can someone tell me more about Charles Blow? I've seen him do some pretty good OP/EDs for the NYT on the issue of race, particularly when some Fox News host shoots his mouth.

Boon
Jun 21, 2005

by R. Guyovich

Unzip and Attack posted:

Sure it did. If someone commits a crime they are very likely to be in a heightened state of aggression and even though the officer might not have known about the incident, Brown did so he probably thought the stop was related - this explains why he would charge Wilson and fracture his eye socket. He thought he was about to get busted for the strongarm so that's why he lashed out.

Is this a serious post? Someone help me I cannot tell.

ufarn
May 30, 2009

Jerry Manderbilt posted:

Can someone tell me more about Charles Blow? I've seen him do some pretty good OP/EDs for the NYT on the issue of race, particularly when some Fox News host shoots his mouth.
He's great. Just a shame 95% of his Twitter are book mentions and media appearances.

Bhaal
Jul 13, 2001
I ain't going down alone
Dr. Infant, MD

icantfindaname posted:

If there really was no way to work for them without being in the workforce corporation then that should be considered illegal under right to work laws IMO, although of course the courts would never rule that way.
I was being a little glib. They had direct hires for management and other positions, but if you were on the phones you had to go through that agency. People on the phones COULD get hired on either through promotion or by staying with them for a couple years and the right endorsements. But that was like a giant carrot that they paraded around the rare times when it actually got used, and was frequently referenced and alluded to when they needed overtime or whatever above and beyond thing out of people.

I think I know the answer to this but: does Right To Work only address the employee's right to opt out of unions or other private entity-entity contracts like that, but is completely absent on addressing the employee's rights when the employer is not willing to offer anything except going through a private entity-entity contract?

aka. Employers can get around unions through RTW by offering to hire directly, but at the same time they are free to refuse employment to anyone who won't go through a staffing agency. So the employee's "right" only ever exists if the employer is willing to hire around the private entity they're contracted with.

Islam is the Lite Rock FM
Jul 27, 2007

by exmarx
You have a right to not work there. :smug:

Pohl
Jan 28, 2005




In the future, please post shit with the sole purpose of antagonizing the person running this site. Thank you.

Boon posted:

Is this a serious post? Someone help me I cannot tell.

I'm rather confused myself.

icantfindaname
Jul 1, 2008


Bhaal posted:

I was being a little glib. They had direct hires for management and other positions, but if you were on the phones you had to go through that agency. People on the phones COULD get hired on either through promotion or by staying with them for a couple years and the right endorsements. But that was like a giant carrot that they paraded around the rare times when it actually got used, and was frequently referenced and alluded to when they needed overtime or whatever above and beyond thing out of people.

I think I know the answer to this but: does Right To Work only address the employee's right to opt out of unions or other private entity-entity contracts like that, but is completely absent on addressing the employee's rights when the employer is not willing to offer anything except going through a private entity-entity contract?

aka. Employers can get around unions through RTW by offering to hire directly, but at the same time they are free to refuse employment to anyone who won't go through a staffing agency. So the employee's "right" only ever exists if the employer is willing to hire around the private entity they're contracted with.

Pretty much right to work laws address one thing and one thing only, and that thing is crippling private sector unions. That's it. Workforce companies that happen to operate exactly like unions except they're controlled by the company don't count, no.

Bar Ran Dun
Jan 22, 2006




Any one posted this yet? NYTs today had a chart showing CBO medicare cost projections since 06 and how much they have fallen in the last eight years.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/28/upshot/medicare-not-such-a-budget-buster-anymore.html?_r=0&abt=0002&abg=0

RuanGacho
Jun 20, 2002

"You're gunna break it!"

BrandorKP posted:

Any one posted this yet? NYTs today had a chart showing CBO medicare cost projections since 06 and how much they have fallen in the last eight years.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/28/upshot/medicare-not-such-a-budget-buster-anymore.html?_r=0&abt=0002&abg=0

For some reason the words "post factual America" keep floating into my head and I get this uncomfortable feeling.

Stultus Maximus
Dec 21, 2009

USPOL May

BrandorKP posted:

Any one posted this yet? NYTs today had a chart showing CBO medicare cost projections since 06 and how much they have fallen in the last eight years.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/28/upshot/medicare-not-such-a-budget-buster-anymore.html?_r=0&abt=0002&abg=0

Look at Obamacare, slashing and burning Medicare.

SnakePlissken
Dec 31, 2009

by zen death robot

Exactly. Thank you Kalman. That is all.

Rygar201
Jan 26, 2011
I AM A TERRIBLE PIECE OF SHIT.

Please Condescend to me like this again.

Oh yeah condescend to me ALL DAY condescend daddy.


http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-fix/wp/2014/08/28/nation-distracted-by-presidents-tan-suit/

So the President wore a tan suit today. It's kind of a big deal

StandardVC10
Feb 6, 2007

This avatar now 50% more dark mode compliant

Stultus Maximus posted:

Look at Obamacare, slashing and burning Medicare.

This is what they're going to say, isn't it.

Stultus Maximus
Dec 21, 2009

USPOL May

StandardVC10 posted:

This is what they're going to say, isn't it.

They already are. It's been a line for a couple years now.

Rygar201
Jan 26, 2011
I AM A TERRIBLE PIECE OF SHIT.

Please Condescend to me like this again.

Oh yeah condescend to me ALL DAY condescend daddy.


Vox Explains the tan suit

http://www.vox.com/2014/8/28/6079963/the-obama-suit-backlash-is-a-promising-sign-of-gender-equality

JT Jag
Aug 30, 2009

#1 Jaguars Sunk Cost Fallacy-Haver
I swear, Obama looks a little more like the super-villain Republicans portray him as every day. Washington D.C. is sucking the soul out of that man.

Joementum
May 23, 2004

jesus christ

I'm not sure I entirely trust the Vox staff on suit jacket recommendations.

Gunshow Poophole
Sep 14, 2008

OMBUDSMAN
POSTERS LOCAL 42069




Clapping Larry

Joementum posted:

I'm not sure I entirely trust the Vox staff on suit jacket recommendations.



violet windowpane, oh MY :swoon:

A friend of mine is getting married outside of DC soon and we're doing tan suits, he texted me today lamenting that he should have never told the president about his plans.

Mercury_Storm
Jun 12, 2003

*chomp chomp chomp*

radical meme posted:

The Bundy Clan continues to provide comic relief and fodder for late night tv hosts.


The Bundy solution is just loving let me do whatever I want to do.

I really feel that girl's cry for help.

So why is this guy not in prison yet?

hangedman1984
Jul 25, 2012

Mercury_Storm posted:

So why is this guy not in prison yet?

Cuz he's a Patriot!! :patriot:

InequalityGodzilla
May 31, 2012

Mercury_Storm posted:

So why is this guy not in prison yet?
Probably something to do with the content of his character.

Wow, fashion and utterly vacuous political journalism. I don't think there's an "I don't loving care!" big enough for this momentous occasion.

icantfindaname
Jul 1, 2008


Mercury_Storm posted:

So why is this guy not in prison yet?

Because he's holed up in a heavily armed compound with dozens of fellow nutjobs and the Feds don't want another Ruby Ridge or Waco. For reference, Waco was when a similar band of far right wingers breaking federal law holed up in a compound and ~80 of them, including their children who they had with them (must protect from evil liberal influence), died when their compound caught fire in the gunfight with the police

beatlegs
Mar 11, 2001

quote:

"They're trying to make my child a criminal – and any other child a criminal – for simply having something, and that is not right," Bundy said.

Wow, even big ol' tough cowboy Bundy plays the victim card and whines? Disappointing.

icantfindaname
Jul 1, 2008


beatlegs posted:

Wow, even big ol' tough cowboy Bundy plays the victim card and whines? Disappointing.

You haven't figured it out already? American conservatives are literally the whiniest people on the face of the earth

Islam is the Lite Rock FM
Jul 27, 2007

by exmarx

icantfindaname posted:

You haven't figured it out already? American conservatives are literally the whiniest people on the face of the earth

Especially the libertarian wing. They're a bunch of whiny assfucks.

Obama's wearing a tan suit as a signal to his allies in the Middle East. He's telling them what color US Troops will wear when they invade so they'll know what to look for.

Pohl
Jan 28, 2005




In the future, please post shit with the sole purpose of antagonizing the person running this site. Thank you.

Joementum posted:

I'm not sure I entirely trust the Vox staff on suit jacket recommendations.



I feel so drat bad for the Onion. How can they stay in business when reality is this insistent on loving with their business model?

Swan Oat
Oct 9, 2012

I was selected for my skill.
I am looking forward to The Onion launching a Vox parody. America desperately needs it.

Shear Modulus
Jun 9, 2010



Swan Oat posted:

I am looking forward to The Onion launching a Vox parody. America desperately needs it.

Given the lag between Buzzfeed becoming the latest outfit to ruin American media and the Onion launching Clickhole you may have to wait a while. I personally am more than willing to let them take their time because Clickhole is genius.

Pope Guilty
Nov 6, 2006

The human animal is a beautiful and terrible creature, capable of limitless compassion and unfathomable cruelty.

WhiskeyJuvenile posted:

NLRB is on the way to making this illegal

I would like to know more about this.

Kilty Monroe
Dec 27, 2006

Upon the frozen fields of arctic Strana Mechty, the Ghost Dads lie in wait, preparing to ambush their prey with their zippin' and zoppin' and ziggy-zoop-boppin'.
Fashion sense and some issues with Ezra Klein aside, what's so bad about Vox? I like how their articles break down the details and their summary articles are good for passing to friends when they ask me to explain current events to them because they haven't been paying attention at all.

Pohl
Jan 28, 2005




In the future, please post shit with the sole purpose of antagonizing the person running this site. Thank you.

Kilty Monroe posted:

Fashion sense and some issues with Ezra Klein aside, what's so bad about Vox? I like how their articles break down the details and their summary articles are good for passing to friends when they ask me to explain current events to them because they haven't been paying attention at all.

I don't know, honestly. I was really excited about Vox when it launched, but I can't even make myself go to the site much anymore. I wish I had a valid criticism, but I simply don't like it. I can't even dislike it enough to formulate a reasonable response as to why it is so horrible, which may be a big part of the problem.

Neeksy
Mar 29, 2007

Hej min vän, hur står det till?

Kilty Monroe posted:

Fashion sense and some issues with Ezra Klein aside, what's so bad about Vox? I like how their articles break down the details and their summary articles are good for passing to friends when they ask me to explain current events to them because they haven't been paying attention at all.

Matty Yglesias is often a bit of a tool. His ideas of how libraries should operate being one example. Because of course poor communities have easy, free access to e-books and high-speed internet.

Also "let's generate good jobs by making them pay shittily!"

And he justifies the deaths of the Bangladeshi Workers in a really hosed-up way.

Neeksy fucked around with this message at 09:32 on Aug 29, 2014

paranoid randroid
Mar 4, 2007
I'm not prepared to say that Matt Y. is 100% an enormous tool, but you can buy candles depicting him as Patron Saint of Serious People and Tough Decisions at your local bodega.

radical meme
Apr 17, 2009

by Fluffdaddy

Pohl posted:

I don't know, honestly. I was really excited about Vox when it launched, but I can't even make myself go to the site much anymore. I wish I had a valid criticism, but I simply don't like it. I can't even dislike it enough to formulate a reasonable response as to why it is so horrible, which may be a big part of the problem.

For fucks sake, Vox is not horrible. It's a great modern news site that dilutes news stories down to their bare bones. It's not in depth coverage but it covers the high points as they see them. What the gently caress do you want from a modern news source? They have everything a young person needs to know about the story at hand and without much editorial bullshit. Just gently caress off if you can't recommend Vox to your friends. What the gently caress are you going to tell them to read, National Review, The Nation? It's a great news site for low attention span readers and that includes about 90% of the U.S.

Sheng-Ji Yang
Mar 5, 2014


radical meme posted:

For fucks sake, Vox is not horrible. It's a great modern news site that dilutes news stories down to their bare bones. It's not in depth coverage but it covers the high points as they see them. What the gently caress do you want from a modern news source? They have everything a young person needs to know about the story at hand and without much editorial bullshit. Just gently caress off if you can't recommend Vox to your friends. What the gently caress are you going to tell them to read, National Review, The Nation? It's a great news site for low attention span readers and that includes about 90% of the U.S.

Ok Matt, we get it.

pangstrom
Jan 25, 2003

Wedge Regret
Yeah I don't "read Vox" per se but most of the articles that have been put in front of me from Vox have been pretty good. It's sort of the opposite of the argument against democracy -- the best argument FOR Vox is a 5 minute conversation with your average person.

Joementum
May 23, 2004

jesus christ
I've found the content at Vox to be pretty good. I also am a huge sucker for their map posts. The site is being built around getting people to visit it almost exclusively through articles shared on social media - it doesn't even have its own search engine and the front page is just a jumble of a bunch of unrelated topics. It's also being exclusively sponsored by GE at the moment and we'll have to see what they do to pay for the site when that ends.

Neeksy posted:

Matty Yglesias is often a bit of a tool. His ideas of how libraries should operate being one example. Because of course poor communities have easy, free access to e-books and high-speed internet.

Also "let's generate good jobs by making them pay shittily!"

And he justifies the deaths of the Bangladeshi Workers in a really hosed-up way.

It's sort of interesting that all these online outlets seem to wind up with their own Libertarian. Yglesias at Vox, Moody at Yahoo!, Weigel at Slate, Barro at The Upshot, Friedersdorf at the online version of The Atlantic, and Greenwald, of course. I'm probably missing a few more obvious ones.

WhiskeyJuvenile
Feb 15, 2002

by Nyc_Tattoo

Pope Guilty posted:

I would like to know more about this.

http://online.wsj.com/articles/nlrb-case-tests-who-employs-contract-workers-1409183483

quote:

Just a month after a controversial decision involving employees of McDonald's Corp. franchisees, businesses are bracing for a new action by federal labor regulators that could lower the barriers between companies and the contract workers they use.

The National Labor Relations Board is re-evaluating its decades-old standard for deciding when contractual business arrangements render one business a "joint employer" of workers employed by another. It is using a case in which a union wants a company at the table in collective bargaining involving subcontracted workers.

These joint-employer cases are the latest battle over the application of labor laws at a time when businesses are increasingly turning to contract workers. U.S. staffing companies employed an average of 3 million temporary and contract workers a week in 2013, up 4% from 2012, according to a quarterly survey by the American Staffing Association.

If the standard is changed, employers say all kinds of businesses could be affected. Franchisers such as McDonald's could be forced to manage labor practices and engage in collective bargaining in thousands of units across the country. The construction industry, where subcontracting practices are widely used, could suffer a "particularly destabilizing" hit, an employers group said in a brief to the NLRB.

Unions say such arrangements enable companies to exercise control over wages and working conditions but escape responsibility when workers have problems or demands. But as labor groups ask the five-member NLRB to declare more companies joint employers, business groups are fighting back, saying such moves could defeat the efficiencies of contracting and expose companies to greater liability in labor matters.

"You're talking about tens of thousands of business relationships between companies all over the place," said Zachary Fasman, a partner with the law firm Proskauer Rose, which filed a brief on behalf of more than a dozen business trade groups in industries such as retail, restaurants, construction and health care. "It could implicate a whole raft of different areas."

Unions and their allies say business groups exaggerate the scope and impact of a revision. They say they're not suggesting that all subcontractors should be joint employers, but cite the growing temporary-staffing industry as one example of why the standard needs changing.

"The difficulties presented by this triangulated workforce structure has created a second-tier workforce of employees working for lower wages and fewer benefits than the standard employees performing the exact same work," the union in the subcontracting case said in a brief.

For the past 30 years, the NLRB, a federal agency that settles workplace disputes, has said that one business couldn't be held liable for employment-related matters at another unless they had direct control over the employees in question. That means that generally, the firms in question had to share or co-determine employment matters such as hiring, firing and discipline in ways that have a meaningful effect on the workers. Franchisors have generally not been considered joint employers under this standard, labor lawyers say.

Then came the McDonald's case, which began when the NLRB received complaints alleging McDonald's and its franchisees had violated the rights of employees involved in protests against them. After finding merit in some of the complaints, the NLRB's general counsel's office issued its opinion that the company should be considered a joint employer in the matters.

His opinion means McDonald's, along with the franchise owners, will be named in unfair labor practice actions the agency said it plans to file based on the allegations, assuming there is no settlement first.

McDonald's has vowed to fight the legal opinion, saying that franchisees, who own 90% of McDonald's more than 14,000 U.S. restaurants, set wages and control working conditions within their restaurants.

In the contracting case, a Teamsters local union, the Sanitary Truck Drivers and Helpers Local 350, has asked the NLRB to consider Browning-Ferris Industries of California Inc. and Leadpoint Business Services, a Phoenix-based staffing firm that provides the company with temporary workers, joint employers of a group of those workers for collective bargaining purposes. The union says it can't adequately bargain over their terms and conditions of employment unless Browning is at the table as a joint employer.

The union says the plant, located in Milpitas, Calif., is an integrated single operation where Browning dictates the hours and duties of all the workers, including its own and Leadpoint's. Browning, for example, has required the workers in question to clean work areas before taking a break and it controls when the breaks occur and for how long, the union says in its brief.

There are no examples on record in which Leadpoint has rejected or refused Browning's directions, the union brief adds.

But the companies say their continuing 2009 contract states that Leadpoint is the "sole employer" of the personnel and that Browning doesn't have responsibility to supervise those workers, who have their own on-site management.

Browning decides certain things, such as what times the waste sorting lines will run and for how long, Leadpoint says in its brief, but, "As the customer, it makes perfect sense for BFI [Browning-Ferris Industries] to decide these matters, given that it is responsible for operating the MRF [Material Recovery Facilities] in the first place."

The union asked the board to review the dispute after an NLRB acting regional director sided with the companies. The NLRB agreed but went even further by asking for input on whether it should update the joint employer standard.

Unions want a standard more akin to the one used before 1984, when even indirect control over employment matters could render a business a joint-employer.

The NLRB's general counsel in a brief filed in response to the board's call for input urged it to adopt a standard that "would make no distinction between direct, indirect, and potential control over working conditions." The current standard "ignores" Congress's intent to treat the term "employer" more broadly and inhibits meaningful collective bargaining involving nontraditional employment agreements, the brief said.

The Browning case is pending review before the five-member board.

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ReindeerF
Apr 20, 2002

Rubber Dinghy Rapids Bro

Joementum posted:

It's sort of interesting that all these online outlets seem to wind up with their own Libertarian. Yglesias at Vox, Moody at Yahoo!, Weigel at Slate, Barro at The Upshot, Friedersdorf at the online version of The Atlantic, and Greenwald, of course. I'm probably missing a few more obvious ones.
Given what we know about how the Libertarian (it's all capital L where the money's involved) network has been grown, shaped and has spread I've always assumed that these guys are the libertarian version of the conservative pundits and what not that were carefully inserted into, and spread throughout the media.

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