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anilEhilated posted:This is neither here nor there, but my favorite mythology trasplant was done by Snorri Sturluson who managed to tie the Trojan war to loving Iceland. What HOW
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Aug 30, 2014 01:16
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Thule?
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Aug 30, 2014 01:23
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kalonZombie posted:What edit: DONE! Alright, source is here: http://heimskringla.no/wiki/Prologus This is taken from the Prose Edda, written by famed Icelandic priest and scholar Snorri Sturluson, which has been preserved for hundreds of years. quote:Nćr miđri veröldinni var gert ţat hús ok herbergi, er ágćtast hefir verit, er kallat Trjóa, ţar sem vér köllum Tyrkland. Ţessi stađr var miklu meiri gerr en ađrir ok međ meira hagleik á marga lund međ kostnađi ok föngum, en ţar váru til. Ţar váru tólf konungdómar ok einn yfirkonungr, ok lágu mörg ţjóđlönd til hvers konungdómsins. Ţar váru í borginni tólf höfđingjar. Ţessir höfđingjar hafa verit um fram ađra menn, ţá er verit hafa í veröldu, um alla manndómliga hluti. Before I start translating, I'll just give a quick summary: Troy had 12 kings who ruled under a high king, one of those kings married the high king's daughter, had a son Snorri says is Thor, who has a long line of descendants ending with one Snorri calls Odin. quote:Close to the middle of the world [this is from back when "the mediterranean" actually meant "sea at the middle of the world"] was made house and room, the finest there has been, called Trjóa [Troy, though modern Icelandic spelling is "Trója"], there what we now call Turkey. This place was much larger than others, grander in cost and scale, than anywhere else. There were twelve kings and one high king, and laid many nations to each kingdom. In the city there were twelve leaders. These leaders surpassed every other men, who had been in the world, in every human quality. Great Joe fucked around with this message at 02:08 on Aug 30, 2014 |
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Aug 30, 2014 01:32
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IIRC, He basically figured that Hector = Thor and went from there. As far as I can tell, the rest is a medley of random Greek characters with names similar to Nordic deities. The idea that mortal heroes got turned into gods as the tale was told and turned into myth is kinda neat, but he didn't choose the best examples. e: Oh, yeah, and let's not forget his Asia -> Asgard line of thought. I think he wanted to give the Vikings a bit of a classical embellishment. e2: I might actually be wrong here given that we have someone who can work with the original; my points come from an annotated version of the prosaic Edda translated to my language. anilEhilated fucked around with this message at 09:17 on Aug 30, 2014 |
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Aug 30, 2014 09:09
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Have there been any other transplants of legends/myths from original civilisations to others? The only one I could think of was the Romans adopting but changing the Greek pantheon. But that Troy = Iceland was amazing.
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Aug 30, 2014 12:30
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Having just a tiny bit of knowledge about history and mythology from around then makes Sturluson so much more fun to read.
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Aug 30, 2014 13:55
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Britain stole the Trojans in another way.
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Aug 30, 2014 14:43
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Why does everybody want to steal the losers of a war for their mythology
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Aug 30, 2014 16:08
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Drachir D Nalem posted:Having just a tiny bit of knowledge about history and mythology from around then makes Sturluson so much more fun to read. Depends. Probably my favorite part of the Heimskringla translation I have is the ancient literary theory. Bought it for the mythology, kept it for the kennings. Seriously, why did no one make a Scandinavian God of War clone? It's the perfect setting.
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Aug 30, 2014 16:13
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AriadneThread posted:Why does everybody want to steal the losers of a war for their mythology ^ This. My Junior High mascots were the Spartans, but the High School Mascots were the Trojans. My High School years were spent alternating between "This is stupid, why are we the losers now?" and "Heh heh heh, the fighting condoms".
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Aug 30, 2014 16:20
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anilEhilated posted:Seriously, why did no one make a Scandinavian God of War clone? It's the perfect setting. I keep hoping they make a God of War 4 where you go around and murder the Norse mythology.
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Aug 30, 2014 18:09
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One of the bosses in 2 is of Norse myth actually, it replaces a Greek monster thanks to the movies Clash of the Titans.
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Aug 30, 2014 18:55
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Is this the American or European version of the game? One section in the European version is censored so if you're playing the American version I'm interested in seeing how much different it actually is. The censored section is the part where you need to make a "sacrifice" to open a door. In the American version you sacrifice an innocent guy in a cage. In the European version you sacrifice some monster thing that looks like the other enemies in the game. It completely takes away the point of the scene, thanks a lot Sony Europe.
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Aug 30, 2014 19:25
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American version. I wasn't aware of the censoring though! I'll be sure to remember about that.
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Aug 30, 2014 19:43
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kalonZombie posted:I keep hoping they make a God of War 4 where you go around and murder the Norse mythology. We already talked about this, it's a Kratos/Samson team-up. At the title screen they're staring each other down, and when you press start they do the Predator Bro Shake.
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Aug 30, 2014 19:45
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Long as that poo poo has real-time TressFX for Samson I'm on board.
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Aug 30, 2014 21:00
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Chances are Thor would be used because Thor is popular. Also, I don't know who Samson is. Though of the actual gods, Tyr is a good choice. He's god of war and him having lost a limb could be used for some sword-in-chain like weapon replacing it.
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Aug 30, 2014 23:18
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Drachir D Nalem posted:Also, I don't know who Samson is. Jewish. Nothing to do with Norse mythology, but I suppose the Old Testament would make one hell of a hack 'n slash setting, too. One of the collection minigames could be gathering foreskins!
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Aug 31, 2014 00:10
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anilEhilated posted:Seriously, why did no one make a Scandinavian God of War clone? It's the perfect setting.  It could be done well, there's just nobody out there willing to put in the time and money.
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Aug 31, 2014 00:23
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Drachir D Nalem posted:Chances are Thor would be used because Thor is popular. Also, I don't know who Samson is.
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Aug 31, 2014 00:28
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Nihilarian posted:Samson was super strong, but only as long as he didn't cut his hair. Then his wife, Delilah, cut his hair and he got killed. That's about all I know of him, though. Samson was super strong, killed a fuckton of Phillistines with the jawbone of a donkey. His source of strength was his hair, and Delilah, a Phillistine spy, seduced Samson into cutting it. Then while he was weak, the Phillistines captured him, gouged out his eyeballs, and chained him up in one of their pagan temples. In one final "gently caress you" to the Phillistines, Samson asked God for one last burst of strength so he could push the pillars over he was chained to and killed all the Phillistines in the temple. "Thus he killed many more as he died than while he lived." (Judges 16:30).
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Aug 31, 2014 01:48
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oh yes oh god yes form the head FORM THE HEAD unghhhh...
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IronSaber posted:His source of strength was his hair, and Delilah, a Phillistine spy, seduced Samson into cutting it. I'm not 100% sure about this, but when I was told the story, Samson's power comes from his faith in God, and his long hair was one of the stipulations of being a Nazirite. When Delilah cuts his hair, God basically forsakes him until Samson asks for one last chance to kill a bunch of Philistines. As for God of War, I really loved the first two games when I played them. I probably beat GoW2 like five times trying to unlock everything. However, when GoW3 came around I was kinda underwhelmed by it. I won't go into detail, but Kratos' quest seemed less about revenge and redemption, and just about killing poo poo and being angry. Kratos is already a super rear end in a top hat, so without at least a decent justification for the rampant murder, it just didn't appeal to me anymore. But that conversation can wait til you get to game 3. Desfore fucked around with this message at 02:53 on Aug 31, 2014 |
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Aug 31, 2014 02:40
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Desfore posted:I'm not 100% sure about this, but when I was told the story, Samson's power comes from his faith in God, and his long hair was one of the stipulations of being a Nazirite. When Delilah cuts his hair, God basically forsakes him until Samson asks for one last chance to kill a bunch of Philistines. Ultimately, same diff. One way or another, the long hair was a symbol of his faith in God, and allowing it to be cut for any reason aside from God saying "You know what I changed my mind you look like a jackass, give it a chop," meant his faith wasn't strong enough and he didn't deserve the crazy strength anymore.
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Aug 31, 2014 05:18
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Still, Samson was an overly violent dick much in the spirit of Kratos. Here's an article linking to a delightful children's cartoon about how he horribly tortures some innocent animals to kill a bunch of villagers: http://www.cracked.com/blog/the-most-insanely-violent-cartoon-ever-is-about-bible_p2/
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Aug 31, 2014 05:37
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I would also like to know why Troy is so revered, even Homer makes them seem no worse than the Greeks.
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Aug 31, 2014 06:43
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Sleep of Bronze posted:Plutarch is ... I think the best way to categorise him is as sophist and philosopher. Sometimes among his enormously prolific essays, he wants to address a moral point - the Lives are probably the most 'constructed' of his works, where you have to worry about him fitting events into his own pattern - but otherwise he can just be writing for the sake of instruction or learning. There's nothing particularly philosophical, in the modern sense, about him writing the Greek or Roman Origins because it's just weird trivia. Goddamnit, I knew I was forgetting something. I remembered that there was a line of succession between them, but forgot Thucydides! Herodotus, Thucydides then Xenophon, of course. Yes, Thycydides is the best historian of the Classical period and one of the most comprehensive in his perspectives up to the Modern Age. Xenophon remains highly entertaining and interesting to read. As for Xenophon, I'll note that he is quite special in that we have preserved all of his writings. He is quite literally the ONLY writer of Antiquity whose corpus of works is fully known and complete. We know this because we have a bibliography of the 3rd Century BC which lists all of Xenophon's works, corroborated by later Roman and Byzantine ones, and all these works are still preserved in their entirety. I should know, my teacher was quite insistent on the fact when we were translating his Apology of Socrates. Addendum: As for Plutarch, I was assuming we were both talking about his Lives, rather than his entire body of works. Of course, he has other works where he is less moralistic. Delta Green fucked around with this message at 07:59 on Aug 31, 2014 |
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Aug 31, 2014 07:56
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Desfore posted:
When it comes to stories like this, where the protagonist is an unlikeable rear end in a top hat, the general rule is to put them up against someone even worse, so they come across as the lesser of two evils. Somewhere along the line, this perspective gets... forgotten to a certain extent. It's definitely more in keeping with Greek stories of the time (where being an absolute prick to your enemies was seen as a virtue), but for a modern audience, it tends to leave them in the cold.
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Aug 31, 2014 10:33
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Drachir D Nalem posted:Chances are Thor would be used because Thor is popular. Also, I don't know who Samson is. Norse mythology actually had several gods of war, Odin for example was associated with war and half of the people that dies in battle goes to Freyja: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F%F3lkvangr
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Aug 31, 2014 12:07
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Though it bears saying that Odin and Thor had different adherents. Farmers and other landowners praised Thor, kings and nobles praised Odin. Also, Thor is a fertility god first, god of war second, and god of thunder third (because thunder comes from him bashing giants' heads in, see?); while Odin isn't so much a god of war as he is a god of noble death (which is any death coming from a weapon, there's known records of men asking to be stabbed on their death bed, so that a blade takes their life, not disease) and wisdom. Look, I could talk norse mythology all day, but is that really on-topic?
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Aug 31, 2014 13:55
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Great Joe posted:Look, I could talk norse mythology all day, but is that really on-topic? Let's go with sure, why not. I've been interested in Norse mythology too but I haven't looked into it with the amount of dedication I have Greek, so I'm always willing to learn more.
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Aug 31, 2014 14:00
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Thor was never a god of war, he just fight Jotuns because he's a god of farmers. The Jotun are natural disasters taken form and that poo poo fucks with your crops, so he brains them to keep crops safe. Odin was the god of warFARE, not war in itself. He was all about that tactical poo poo. As a sidenote, Thor at one point, real early in the germanic version of the faith, was the leader of the gods and was called the "kettle vendor" because thunder made the sound of empty kettles being banged together, apparently.
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Aug 31, 2014 14:11
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This is a great idea and I'll be watching this as far as you take it. I skipped playing the God of War series back in the day, and when I tried playing through them earlier this year for the first time I just couldn't enjoy them after playing so many other, more recent action games. I gave up on the first game on a certain block-pushing puzzle fairly deep in, and I quit the second one part way through just because I wasn't having any fun with the combat (which again isn't really fair since at that point my bar for action games was set closer to stuff like Bayonetta or MGR). The only reasons I was playing at that point were because I love Greek mythology, an all-too rare setting for games, and to relish in how silly Kratos' personality gets (he seems like he was written by someone who was really into pro wrestling, given that he's constantly shouting even when it's inappropriate to the context). If I can get both of those out of an LP then good on ya.
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Aug 31, 2014 14:49
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I love me some Greek mythology, ever since one of my elementary school teachers taught us a lot of it (I want to say it was my 3rd or 4th grade teacher, but don't quote me on that). Couldn't get enough of it when I was younger. Still remember a lot of it even now. As for this game, I remember one of the first LPs I ever followed after joining SA was one of this game made by limp_cheese, which was pretty great. With the added mythology focus, this one might be even better. Never played any of the God of War games past the first one. Was really excited for that one and after beating it, I looked forward to the other games, then when previews for the second game came out, Kratos just looked and seemed a lot more of an rear end in a top hat and really unlikeable as a character, and I didn't really like the idea of destroying an animated Colossus of Rhodes as the first boss, no matter how cool it seemed to others. Then the third game came around and no matter how good the gameplay was, I just couldn't get into the storyline at all because of the stuff that goes down at the end of GoW2 and the resultant parts of 3, especially once I found out who the major boss fights were going to be. I dunno, it just didn't sit right with me for some reason... Still going to be following this LP, though.
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Aug 31, 2014 14:58
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Drachir D Nalem posted:Thor was never a god of war, he just fight Jotuns because he's a god of farmers. The Jotun are natural disasters taken form and that poo poo fucks with your crops, so he brains them to keep crops safe. Odin was the god of warFARE, not war in itself. He was all about that tactical poo poo. Odin is also called "the Mad God" due to his association with Berserkers. I've heard a most interesting theory that posited Odin and Thor were Kings who had been deified, while Tyr was the original leader of the Pantheon and God of honourable War."
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Aug 31, 2014 15:17
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Drachir D Nalem posted:Odin was the god of warFARE, not war in itself. He was all about that tactical poo poo. In the Norse sagas, Odin sometimes acts as the instigator of wars, and is said to have been able to start wars by simply throwing down his spear Gungnir, and/or sending his valkyries, to influence the battle toward the end that he desires.
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Aug 31, 2014 15:40
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Right, I meant more that he's a thinker rather than fighter. Bad wording on my part. Though there was really no singular god of war, many were about different aspects of it. Tyr is also about honour and justice, for an example.
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Aug 31, 2014 15:54
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I never really got into God of War because that boss hydra QTE was literally impossible for me to complete. I just couldn't press the button fast enough and it'd time out. Every single time. Seems like a perfect series to spectate, though.
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Sep 1, 2014 19:35
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The QTEs only get harder from there. And faster. That's actually one of the most lenient ones in the entire series.
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Sep 1, 2014 19:44
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kalonZombie posted:The QTEs only get harder from there. And faster. That's actually one of the most lenient ones in the entire series. Yeeeeah, I'm glad I never bothered getting any more of them, then.
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Sep 1, 2014 22:52
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So before Kalon posts it, I want to go ahead and warn everybody not to watch today's update at work. Or in public. Or anywhere where there's even the slightest chance another human being could see you. There will never be a good enough explanation.
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Sep 2, 2014 09:22
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