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Drifter posted:Hobbits are children. Tolkien was a kiddy-diddler. Nah it's just Children Are The Future cranked all the way up.
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Sep 2, 2014 18:34
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Shugojin posted:Nah it's just Children Are The Future cranked all the way up. I mean, look at how the Rangers treat the Hobbits of the Shire. They stay in secret, hunting threats and guarding the hobbits, because they want the Hobbits to have good lives, and be happy, without fear of the unknown. And then, while they grow up throughout it, most of the books has the non-hobbits guarding the hobbits very closely, and consistently being concerned with their lives. Hobbits are pretty explicitly the pure/untainted children, with Frodo and the rest being a kind of okay metaphor for ones forced to grow up due to tragedy/war, with them all finding that the Shire no longer felt like home when they returned, and that they had trouble adjusting to peaceful life. Or maybe not?
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Sep 2, 2014 18:38
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The Sharmat posted:Also the statement that they have been racial metaphors "ever since" Tolkien also implies that poster only reads lovely derivative fantasy in the first place. The reason I specified "elves and dwarves and poo poo" is because I was specifically talking about Tolkein-inspired fantasy, which is most of the mainstream stuff. There's some non-Tolkeinesque (and probably even some Tolkeinesque) fantasy that treats the whole "fantasy race" thing like they're actual different species rather than metaphors for human race, but this is a Dragon Age thread so "lovely derivative fantasy" is exactly the flavor of fantasy in question. And let me point out another bit of careful wording: saying elves etc. are "analagous to real-life human race/ethnicity" and "racial metaphors" is a deliberately neutral statement that you reacted to as if I had said "Tolkein is a racist and orcs are black people," which is an issue I'd prefer to sidestep entirely. The thing is, most fantasy properties--including Dragon Age which is the only one that really matters right now--don't portray humans and elves and dwarves as different species, they use a portrayal that deliberately and explicitly draws parallels to human ethnicity. You can look at literally anything that happens with elves and humans in these games and it should be pretty drat obvious Bioware is invoking real-life racism to make a point. (Of course, whether they're doing so with any kind of grace or sensitivity is an entirely different discussion.) But, okay, maybe I was being unfairly general, so let me retract my initial statement and replace it with something more specific: "People find speciesism in Dragon Age distasteful because Dragon Age portrays its fantasy races as something analogous to human ethnicity." I think that's a fair assessment. Opposing Farce fucked around with this message at 18:42 on Sep 2, 2014 |
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Sep 2, 2014 18:39
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Opposing Farce posted:The reason I specified "elves and dwarves and poo poo" is because I was specifically talking about Tolkein-inspired fantasy, which is most of the mainstream stuff. There's some non-Tolkeinesque (and probably even some Tolkeinesque) fantasy that treats the whole "fantasy race" thing like they're actual different species rather than metaphors for human race, but this is a Dragon Age thread so "lovely derivative fantasy" is exactly the flavor of fantasy in question. Opposing Farce posted:And let me point out another bit of careful wording: saying elves etc. are "analagous to real-life human race/ethnicity" and "racial metaphors" is a deliberately neutral statement that you reacted to as if I had said "Tolkein is a racist and orcs are black people," which is an issue I'd prefer to sidestep entirely. The thing is, most fantasy properties--including Dragon Age which is the only one that really matters right now--don't portray humans and elves and dwarves as different species, they use a portrayal that deliberately and explicitly draws parallels to human ethnicity. You can look at literally anything that happens with elves and humans in these games and it should be pretty drat obvious Bioware is invoking real-life racism to make a point. (Of course, whether they're doing so with any kind of grace or sensitivity is an entirely different discussion.) I've seen the argument before. A lot. So I probably jumped the gun in assuming what your opinion was.
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Sep 2, 2014 18:47
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Shugojin posted:Nah it's just Children Are The Future cranked all the way up. I've always heard that hobbits represent rural english villagers
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Sep 2, 2014 20:21
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That's what Tolkien himself said, yeah. His dwarves also take a lot of inspiration from Semitic culture and languages - he said that he never intended them to directly analogise the Jewish peoples, but admitted that he felt there was a similarity.
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Sep 2, 2014 20:25
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Josef bugman posted:Okay, have you ever played [Deus] Ex Human Revolution? Because I actually finished that game. What about Alpha Protocol? Now THERE is a game worth raving about.
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Sep 2, 2014 20:32
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Shumagorath posted:On that note I bought and played through Deus Ex Invisible War three times and managed to enjoy it despite all the flaws, most of which were magnified by being unwelcome changes or regressions versus the original game. DA2 was several grades of disappointment worse from what I read so I didn't buy it, and I credit IW with immunizing me against sequels that break the 10% rule. What's the 10% rule?
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Sep 2, 2014 20:34
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A Steampunk Gent posted:Have any of you guys read The Iron Dream? It's a pretty cool yarn about a dude doing some racial cleansing in post-apocalyptic Europe, please don't read too much into it with that SJW death of the author bullcrap though, it's just some good honest fun about killing mutants The best part of The Iron Dream is the literary criticism at the end of it that gets the subtext completely wrong.
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Sep 2, 2014 20:37
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marktheando posted:What's the 10% rule? I think its the "90% of everything is crap" rule that some sci-fi author said when he got mad about someone saying how so much sci-fi/fantasy fiction is poorly written trash. Also the classic "the sequel was worse" and how Godfather 2 is usually mentioned in a similar context as one of the few sequels superior to the original.
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Sep 2, 2014 20:44
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marktheando posted:What's the 10% rule? -Level size (due to console memory limitations and a resource-intensive lighting engine) -Ammunition types (completely removed for one universal ammo pool) -Augmentation system -Skill system removed entirely -Game length shortened significantly -Text volume (another console / SDTV concession) -Probably more stuff I'm forgetting For a good example of following this rule look no further than most of Activision's big franchises like Call of Duty. Even StarCraft 2, which had 11 years and lots of new ideas in RTS design between games, stuck to this rule without fail. Dragon Age 2 would have crept up on the limit just by limiting you to Kirkwall and changing the Quanari and Darkspawn designs. Overhaul the entire combat system and it starts to reek of being a different game that got rebranded midway through development when DA:O sold well. Shumagorath fucked around with this message at 20:51 on Sep 2, 2014 |
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Sep 2, 2014 20:49
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Tezzeract posted:Since goons are edgy, that'd probably be TotalBiscuit #1 Youtube Critic or Jim Sterling. Accurate. Sadly. Lotish posted:Someone was kind enough to put all the MP characters together in one image. Maybe I'm not seeing it, but I don't think there are four of each main type in that pic. Seems light on rogues? pentyne posted:So, in the Dragon Age universe, if a elf and a human mate, the child is always human. Always. The way the in-game codex explains it, the more elves taint themselves with human contact, the more human they become. This is why the Dalish are isolationist.
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Sep 3, 2014 00:33
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CAPT. Rainbowbeard posted:Maybe I'm not seeing it, but I don't think there are four of each main type in that pic. Seems light on rogues? Just guessing, but I think it's Mage - Keeper, Elementalist, Necromancer, Arcane Warrior Warrior - Reaver, Templar, Legionnaire, Katari Rogue - Archer, Assassin, Hunter, Alchemist.
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Sep 3, 2014 00:37
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KittyEmpress posted:Just guessing, but I think it's That's what I'm thinking as well. I wonder if the eventual multiplayer dlc will have a new person for each class like The Spirit Warrior, The Swashbuckler, and The Blood Mage?
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Sep 3, 2014 00:40
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CAPT. Rainbowbeard posted:
A few of the classes seem nebulous, maybe as a multiclass sort of situation, but it seems about right to me. Warrior: Reaver, Legionnaire, Templar Rogue: Archer, Assassin, Hunter Mage: Keeper, Necromancer, Elementalist Multiclass(?): Arcane Warrior (Warrior/Mage), Alchemist (Rogue/Mage), Katari (Warrior/Rogue)
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Sep 3, 2014 00:44
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I'm also holding out for the eventual Awakened Darkspawn character
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Sep 3, 2014 00:52
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SgtSteel91 posted:I'm also holding out for the eventual Awakened Darkspawn character Expect it to drop in time for the Return of Corypheus DLC.
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Sep 3, 2014 01:30
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WeaponBoy posted:A few of the classes seem nebulous, maybe as a multiclass sort of situation, but it seems about right to me. The Katari seems like an interesting class. Because 2h warriors were incredibly slow so maybe the rogue skill tree could speed it up.. make more precise movements with the blade.. However looking at the Splash art... that kinda goes against that idea
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Sep 3, 2014 02:21
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I'm hoping the Katari is more of a rushdown character, or like the Pillars of Eternity Barbarian where the point is he moves in fast, hits hard, and then gets out before his shirtless rear end gets creamed. Which sounds like it would play as close to a Dragon Age non-magical Vanguard as you can get.
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Sep 3, 2014 03:06
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Tezzeract posted:Funny enough, I know some people who enjoyed the original more ambiguous ending than the extended one. I liked the original ending and probably won't play the newer DLC for some unnecessary clarifications.  , I assume?
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Sep 3, 2014 03:17
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"Ambiguity" was, like, merely one-fifth of the problems of the original ME3 ending that all added up to a poo poo that was stankier than the sum of its parts.
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Sep 3, 2014 03:19
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The Sharmat posted:Someone's not up on modern literary "theory" (and I use that word loosely). the new critical school is bs and everybody knows it
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Sep 3, 2014 05:17
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Fiction in general is bullshit. I mean, it is someone telling you something you know to be untrue a.k.a lying to you.
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Sep 3, 2014 06:24
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paragon1 posted:Fiction in general is bullshit. I mean, it is someone telling you something you know to be untrue a.k.a lying to you. loving authors! CAPT. Rainbowbeard posted:The way the in-game codex explains it, the more elves taint themselves with human contact, the more human they become. This is why the Dalish are isolationist. Hense the reason they lost their immortality. Being an elf in the Dragon Age universe really kind of sucks.
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Sep 3, 2014 08:24
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A bit tangential to the game itself, but Jacques Lebrun, Technical Director at Bioware, posted a bit over on the Frostbite site about why they went with that engine, and some of challenges they faced in using it for DA:I. Frostbite blog. Looks like they and the Frostbite folks had to invent quite a few new features for them.
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Sep 3, 2014 10:39
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BrianWilly posted:"Ambiguity" was, like, merely one-fifth of the problems of the original ME3 ending that all added up to a poo poo that was stankier than the sum of its parts. Yes, but that's both the least damning criticism and the easiest part to "fix" so it's what Bioware and major critics unwilling to piss off EA naturally focused on.
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Sep 3, 2014 13:08
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WeaponBoy posted:A few of the classes seem nebulous, maybe as a multiclass sort of situation, but it seems about right to me. I hadn't thought of multiclassing. I wouldn't be surprised if you turned out to be correct. It was the Alchemist that was throwing me off. Potions just feel more wizard-y than thief-y to me. The Katari as an agile fighter and the Arcane Warrior as exactly what it sounds like makes totL sense.
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Sep 3, 2014 13:31
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CAPT. Rainbowbeard posted:I hadn't thought of multiclassing. I wouldn't be surprised if you turned out to be correct. It was the Alchemist that was throwing me off. Potions just feel more wizard-y than thief-y to me. The Katari as an agile fighter and the Arcane Warrior as exactly what it sounds like makes totL sense. Based entirely off the tarot card of the Alchemist, it looked more like bombs than potions.
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Sep 3, 2014 14:16
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Darth Windu posted:The characters, dialogue, and setting are miles above any other modern rpg. Admittedly that's a low bar. I just started playing Divinity: Original Sin a few days ago. I'm having fun investigating a murder by actually having to look around for clues, talking to people, and having my supposedly obvious evidence shot down with perfectly reasonable explanations. If this was DA2 I wouldn't have to do anything but follow some quest marker exactly where I need to go and then click through some pretty obvious dialogue. It also looks better than DA2.  DA2's dialogue is inherently limited by voice acting too.
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Sep 3, 2014 14:25
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CottonWolf posted:Based entirely off the tarot card of the Alchemist, it looked more like bombs than potions. I could see it as a rogue specializing in poisons and/or traps as well. A support class with relatively weak offense, but specializing in wearing opponents down so their allies could have an easier time with enemies too tough or too numerous to just beat into submission.
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Sep 3, 2014 15:48
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CottonWolf posted:Based entirely off the tarot card of the Alchemist, it looked more like bombs than potions. I was on my phone and they looked potion-y enough, combined with my opinion that alchemists are all about potions. You're probably right.
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Sep 3, 2014 16:20
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CAPT. Rainbowbeard posted:I was on my phone and they looked potion-y enough, combined with my opinion that alchemists are all about potions. Potions can be very versatile... http://youtu.be/K0Gx8hYi0hQ
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Sep 3, 2014 16:56
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 That's an ugly looking dragon. Kinda cool. Things with teeth that wide-spaced and hosed up must just eat like a whale and gulp poo poo without even touching it with those teeth.
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Sep 3, 2014 17:40
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Inverness posted:Characters are probably the only real thing that DA2 has going for it. You'll find that sometimes that limitation is good when the writing isn't up to snuff. Divinity has REALLY boring dialog, and is excruciatingly expository in nature. There's so much of it and it's so blah. Them condensing the writing would have been loving amazing.
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Sep 3, 2014 17:43
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Drifter posted:
Always choose hosed up weird looking dragons for your designs. The more weird and further from a 'regular' dragon it looks the better.
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Sep 3, 2014 17:47
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FauxGateau posted:Always choose hosed up weird looking dragons for your designs. The more weird and further from a 'regular' dragon it looks the better. Also the less bad I feel about killing it.
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Sep 3, 2014 18:04
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paragon1 posted:Fiction in general is bullshit. I mean, it is someone telling you something you know to be untrue a.k.a lying to you. With this new knowledge imparted to me I will now start hating all my favorite authors. Screw you Terry Pratchett! Wait, is this post fiction?  Who do I trust?!
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Sep 3, 2014 18:20
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Sounds like you may be ready for New Historicism. "All knowledge is corrupted, even our own!"
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Sep 3, 2014 18:40
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evilmiera posted:With this new knowledge imparted to me I will now start hating all my favorite authors. Screw you Terry Pratchett! Drax, the Destroyer, has the answers you seek.
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Sep 3, 2014 18:53
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Lotish posted:Sounds like you may be ready for New Historicism. "All knowledge is corrupted, even our own!" History never lies. Historians, on the other hand...
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Sep 3, 2014 19:16
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