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Hong XiuQuan posted:tl;dr - in entirely harmless cases ('drink some of this useless water, you've got terminal cancer and there's nothing we can do') then I'm all for it if the patient believes it helps. But I'd also be up for facilitating bucket lists etc so... The placebo effect is real and can help people's perception of symptoms, but that doesn't mean we need to spend millions funding an infrastructure of homeopathic practitioners to keep up the facade. If doctors are allowed to prescribe placebo treatments to patients then there must be a cheaper way of doing it.
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Sep 6, 2014 15:55
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bob holness paradox posted:The placebo effect is real and can help people's perception of symptoms, but that doesn't mean we need to spend millions funding an infrastructure of homeopathic practitioners to keep up the facade. If doctors are allowed to prescribe placebo treatments to patients then there must be a cheaper way of doing it. Back in the day doctors could prescribe a 'tonic' to patients. They tended to have a bit of alcohol in them, which took the edge off whatever complaint the patient had. One GP I know said he had little old ladies on his books who swore by the stuff for their non-specific maladies (these women, naturally, were otherwise teetotal). One of the big failings of giving over much more power to patients is that patients don't always know what's good for them, particularly when you're dealing with psycho-somatic stuff like pain management.
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Sep 6, 2014 16:06
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bob holness paradox posted:The placebo effect is real and can help people's perception of symptoms, but that doesn't mean we need to spend millions funding an infrastructure of homeopathic practitioners to keep up the facade. If doctors are allowed to prescribe placebo treatments to patients then there must be a cheaper way of doing it. Can't remember where I've seen it but more expensive placebos are apparently more effective. They're also more effective if they're more painful. Gold-plated ocular injections for all!
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Sep 6, 2014 16:48
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KKKlean Energy posted:Can't remember where I've seen it but more expensive placebos are apparently more effective. They're also more effective if they're more painful. If they're on prescription, and so not free in England, does that mean that English homeopathic treatments are more effective than Welsh ones?
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Sep 6, 2014 17:03
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Cerv posted:They seem pretty confident they won't. It looks like Brighton Pavilion will be very close, and they'll have the incumbency effect going into the last month. Plus, it's Labour chasing them, who are some of the most incompetent people on the planet. I'd take any bets that they manage to get through the whole local campaign without saying something misogynistic about Caroline Lucas. EDIT: And TinTower, I think you're overestimating people's knowledge of and ability to care about the Parliament Act. Plus, the whole debate surrounding whether to have a referendum has been an acceptance by pretty much all sides that there is a democratic mandate for it, so I don't think it's hard to justify the use of the Parliament Act to the public.
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Sep 6, 2014 17:05
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KKKlean Energy posted:Can't remember where I've seen it but more expensive placebos are apparently more effective. They're also more effective if they're more painful. More dramatic interventions are more effective. Ben Goldacre talks about this. So an injection has more effect than a pill.
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Sep 6, 2014 17:25
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Guavanaut posted:Does that mean that offering them for free on the NHS makes them less effective, or does the patient just have to think that they cost a lot and are being offered free at the point of care? More research needed 
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Sep 6, 2014 17:33
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Alecto posted:It looks like Brighton Pavilion will be very close, and they'll have the incumbency effect going into the last month. Plus, it's Labour chasing them, who are some of the most incompetent people on the planet. I'd take any bets that they manage to get through the whole local campaign without saying something misogynistic about Caroline Lucas. I'd like to think that the Labour Party would only need to remind people that Caroline Lucas is a filthy scab for them not to vote for her, but of course as it's the Labour Party they don't give a poo poo about that sort of thing anymore. I am also aware that the issue might not put people off voting for her anyway, but it would be nice if the party formed by Trade Unions still cared.
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Sep 6, 2014 19:16
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Pork Pie Hat posted:I'd like to think that the Labour Party would only need to remind people that Caroline Lucas is a filthy scab for them not to vote for her, but of course as it's the Labour Party they don't give a poo poo about that sort of thing anymore. I'm not in an area of the country to be able to have a lot of first hand experience with Green voters, but I'm given to believe that they're not the sort of people who would be put off by that sort of thing. They're far more your middle-class-social-democrat-elite types, rather than your working-class-leftists. And as you say, lol at any CLP, especially a southern one trying to win back middle-class voters, calling someone a scab.
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Sep 6, 2014 20:38
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thehustler posted:More dramatic interventions are more effective. Ben Goldacre talks about this. So an injection has more effect than a pill. Yeah, this ss pretty crazy. The Placebo effect is a really, really weird and bizarre thing. I remember he also mentioned patients with tendon/muscle injuries who would have a placebo surgery. Essentially, they'd be given a local anaesthetic, the doctor would cut the affected part open, pretend to root around there in a bit and essentially do bugger all then stitch them back up and it worked That's pretty amazing.
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Sep 6, 2014 20:46
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Everything on the state of the art in placebo research, from a recent Phil Trans B special issue. http://rstb.royalsocietypublishing.org/content/366/1572.toc edit: I'm pretty sure it's all Open Access, but I could be wrong...
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Sep 6, 2014 20:48
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Alecto posted:I'm not in an area of the country to be able to have a lot of first hand experience with Green voters, but I'm given to believe that they're not the sort of people who would be put off by that sort of thing. They're far more your middle-class-social-democrat-elite types, rather than your working-class-leftists. And as you say, lol at any CLP, especially a southern one trying to win back middle-class voters, calling someone a scab. What were the press calling it? Mango vs. Watermelon Greens? Brighton is full of mangoes.
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Sep 6, 2014 21:05
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Ddraig posted:Yeah, this ss pretty crazy. The Placebo effect is a really, really weird and bizarre thing. I remember he also mentioned patients with tendon/muscle injuries who would have a placebo surgery. Essentially, they'd be given a local anaesthetic, the doctor would cut the affected part open, pretend to root around there in a bit and essentially do bugger all then stitch them back up and it worked That was knee cartilage surgery, I believe. Works with a certain angina surgery too. But the bigger implication was that people were receiving useless surgeries (no better than placebo), both under general anaesthetic with the risks of both anaesthetic and post-op infection, which are not negligible. If you're going to do placebo surgeries then you need to tell people and get fully informed consent (which wasn't the case when surgeons thought that the surgeries were effective).
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Sep 6, 2014 21:17
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TinTower posted:What were the press calling it? Mango vs. Watermelon Greens? Brighton is full of mangoes. That's an amazingly apt metaphor that I hadn't heard before.
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Sep 6, 2014 21:20
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HortonNash posted:That was knee cartilage surgery, I believe. If a surgery works, can you really call it useless?
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Sep 7, 2014 02:40
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You can if it doesn't actually fix whatever problem the patient had.
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Sep 7, 2014 02:44
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Apparently, community health services in Enfield are out for tender at the moment. I loving hate the GPs in this borough.
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Sep 7, 2014 09:55
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Alecto posted:That's an amazingly apt metaphor that I hadn't heard before. From what I recall, you have watermelons: green on the outside, red on the inside; mangoes: green on the outside, yellow on the inside; and cucumbers: green on the outside and on the inside. The watermlon/mango divide tends to divide among class lines, too; Brighton's pretty much the epitome of cosmopolitan liberalism. Then again, the same fruit analogy could, with a bit of stretching, possibly extend to Labour and the Lib Dems; it's just way more pronounced in the Green Party. In other news: unionists are falling apart after YouGov show Yes ahead 51–49. A Yes-commissioned poll shows them behind 48-52. TinTower fucked around with this message at 11:07 on Sep 7, 2014 |
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Sep 7, 2014 11:01
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TinTower posted:the same fruit analogy could, with a bit of stretching, possibly extend to Labour What kind of fruit is red on the outside and blue on the inside?
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Sep 7, 2014 11:36
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Renaissance Robot posted:What kind of fruit is red on the outside and blue on the inside? A sad tomato.
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Sep 7, 2014 11:38
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Renaissance Robot posted:What kind of fruit is red on the outside and blue on the inside? A rotten fruit that needs to be thrown in the bin.
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Sep 7, 2014 11:39
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What is red and invisible? A socialist on the Labour front bench.
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Sep 7, 2014 11:53
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That still implies they're there in the first place...
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Sep 7, 2014 11:57
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tooterfish posted:That still implies they're there in the first place... Oh, they're still there; they provide easy deflection. The likes of Dennis Skinner or Owen Jones or John McDonnell getting onto the NEC allows them to retain their socialist credentials a little while longer.
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Sep 7, 2014 12:21
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kingturnip posted:Apparently, community health services in Enfield are out for tender at the moment. Tbf they don't have much choice. All NHS work has to be tendered these days. Cheers Tories.
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Sep 7, 2014 12:38
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TinTower posted:From what I recall, you have watermelons: green on the outside, red on the inside; mangoes: green on the outside, yellow on the inside; and cucumbers: green on the outside and on the inside. The watermlon/mango divide tends to divide among class lines, too; Brighton's pretty much the epitome of cosmopolitan liberalism. Pretty sure the Yes-commissioned Panelbase poll shows YES behind 48-52. Not sure if that's what you meant. Either way, statistical tie.
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Sep 7, 2014 15:24
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Alecto posted:Pretty sure the Yes-commissioned Panelbase poll shows YES behind 48-52. Not sure if that's what you meant. Either way, statistical tie. In future news, an independent Scotland declares war on Russia and gets London bombed. 
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Sep 7, 2014 17:27
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Jim Dobbin, MP, has died on a parliamentary trip. He was most famous for homophobia and anti-abortion rhetoric that would put Tories to shame, but that doesn't matter now that he's dead.
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Sep 8, 2014 08:57
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TinTower posted:Jim Dobbin, MP, has died on a parliamentary trip. He was most famous for homophobia and anti-abortion rhetoric that would put Tories to shame, but that doesn't matter now that he's dead. All that matters is who wins the by-election! (spoilers: it'll be the Labour candidate)
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Sep 8, 2014 09:12
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More news: Famous benefit scrounger to have another sproglet. Poor Harry. 
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Sep 8, 2014 10:43
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Looks like it's time for another round of  ROIL BABBY BULLSHIT I can't wait for the non-stop media coverage and speculation (edit: and completely inappropriate comparisons to the previous BABBY saga) Microplastics fucked around with this message at 10:56 on Sep 8, 2014 |
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Sep 8, 2014 10:54
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Time for the government to bury every missed target and awful policy change!
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Sep 8, 2014 10:58
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I wonder what would happen if there were a disabled royal baby. I suspect if any major disabilities were detected there would be a 'miscarriage' but if it did happen it would be a very interesting scenario. There would be a strong chance it would humanise disabled people, which the powers that be wouldn't like, but it would also be an opportunity to present a platonic right wing ideal of how disabled people should behave.
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Sep 8, 2014 11:25
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JoylessJester posted:Time for the government to bury every missed target and awful policy change!
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Sep 8, 2014 11:26
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ReV VAdAUL posted:I wonder what would happen if there were a disabled royal baby. The Queen had 3 or 4 severely mentally ill cousins, and they were vanished, kept secret until the early 80s.
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Sep 8, 2014 11:29
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ookiimarukochan posted:The Queen had 3 or 4 severely mentally ill cousins, and they were vanished, kept secret until the early 80s. Reflecting how such people were treated by society at large at the time.
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Sep 8, 2014 11:37
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TinTower posted:More news: Famous benefit scrounger to have another sproglet. What do you mean? This further cements his freedom to do the gently caress he likes, not have to worry about ever having any real responsibly and confirms his position as the UK's No .1 Lad
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Sep 8, 2014 12:01
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I'm hoping that as the Queen starts thinking about her "retirement" she will do the decent thing and start backing a British republic. For most monarchists I've met their best argument for keeping the royals in power is "the Queen does a pretty good job", and in fairness it seems to me that she probably does. But surely even she doesn't have much faith in her heirs' abilities to do the same.
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Sep 8, 2014 13:28
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Pissflaps posted:This does not make me glad. Fear not, it's actually only 40p but it's been diluted so many times that...
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Sep 8, 2014 13:34
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big scary monsters posted:I'm hoping that as the Queen starts thinking about her "retirement" she will do the decent thing and start backing a British republic. For most monarchists I've met their best argument for keeping the royals in power is "the Queen does a pretty good job", and in fairness it seems to me that she probably does. But surely even she doesn't have much faith in her heirs' abilities to do the same. Rumour has it that Charles has actually thought that way for quite a while, and would be willing to stand for election as President.
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Sep 8, 2014 13:42
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