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If only Mike Tenay were there to tell me "It's quite simple, really" before the explanation This doesn't really make a lot of sense to me. What the h*ck? maffew buildings fucked around with this message at 18:32 on Sep 18, 2014 |
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Sep 18, 2014 18:29
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| # ? Jun 13, 2024 01:37 |
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Fag Boy Jim posted:The top-35 rule wasn't really that bad. It was a replacement for the old provisional system, which, if anything, was much more complicated and weird.
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Sep 18, 2014 18:38
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Some guy walking away with a 20 second lead and barely 10 cars on the lead lap before halfway doesn't mean its a lovely race. It just means 1 team had it together and the rest didn't. A lovely race is 43 cars virtually unable to pass one another outside of major tire life differences because as soon as they get within half a second the front end washes out and then you get Jimmiebot cruising to a THRILLING 1.5 second win
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Sep 18, 2014 20:04
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Hey gaining a .01 seconds lead per lap is REAL racing, not scamming the timing lights in the pits.
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Sep 18, 2014 20:51
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Harveygod posted:I liked the rule, too, and think that they gave up on it too quickly. I just didn't like the number 35. If you're 35th in points, you're not contending and it only left 8 open positions for others to qualify on time. Shortening it to even 30 would have helped. That way, 13 (almost a third) of the positions would have been open to outside/new teams. Bring back the top 35 rule but make it only race winners.
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Sep 18, 2014 21:07
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oixSOrd6a50 I love Geoff Bodine, he pretty much is telling her she's full of poo poo trying to stir up drama.
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Sep 18, 2014 21:20
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ain't no better dirt track guy to explain it, really, dude's a legend across the board e- also he's local to the story, kinda
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Sep 18, 2014 22:26
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Gonna watch some Truck racing on Cytube at the top of the hour if anyone is interested.
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Sep 19, 2014 01:36
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LASTCAR posted:Awesome, sounds like you got some great access - you'll always remember your first race. And yeah, green-flag stops aren't that interesting when the field gets all strung-out, but those caution-flag ones were probably pretty good. New to the sport but I love it. Will be at Homestead. I pushed my company to see it as a valuable spend in ad dollars so got to do the whole wine and dine thing. Had passes to the kickoff party they have downtown but it was Thursday at like 10 and me and the misses worked Friday so we passed. I may or may not have been on MRN to talk about the product.
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Sep 19, 2014 01:50
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Cygni posted:Goddamnit, I'm really making GBS threads the bed at the end of the fantasy season here. So that's how I worked my way into the lead. Its been a nice change of pace for me since the last few years I've been finishing like 25th or worse. My Sascar fantasy football team sucks real bad though so you can't have it all I guess
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Sep 19, 2014 02:35
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Forgot to update my lineup twice cause of moving and have dropped from first to 4th.
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High_Life posted:New to the sport but I love it. Will be at Homestead. I pushed my company to see it as a valuable spend in ad dollars so got to do the whole wine and dine thing. Had passes to the kickoff party they have downtown but it was Thursday at like 10 and me and the misses worked Friday so we passed. I may or may not have been on MRN to talk about the product. Well hey, welcome to the party!  If I may ask, how'd you get into the sport? To say NASCAR's had a hard time attracting new fans would be a huge understatement. Do you have a favorite driver? You're in for something special for the finale at Homestead. None of us have a clue how this new championship format will work out, so you'll bear witness to some rather strange NASCAR history. Feel free to drop by in #IRC for the races - we'll give you a good idea of the storylines and ridiculousness all the way down to last place. How 'bout this, guys? Two new fans in the last month! Haven't seen that since 2004.
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Sep 19, 2014 02:39
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Honestly the racing has been pretty alright recently too. Who knows?!
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Sep 19, 2014 02:45
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LASTCAR posted:How 'bout this, guys? Two new fans in the last month! Haven't seen that since 2004. Let's be cynical dickshits and teach them all about how we hate everything forever thats always fun
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Sep 19, 2014 02:48
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Uncle Jam posted:Honestly the racing has been pretty alright recently too. Who knows?! NFL fans that showed up when they learned we are soft on murderers too?
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Sep 19, 2014 02:49
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Shadow Puppet Of posted:NFL fans that showed up when they learned we are soft on murderers too? Finally Brian France is taking a bite out of the NFL.
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Sep 19, 2014 02:58
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LASTCAR posted:Well hey, welcome to the party! To be fair I just recognized the compatibly of the product line I manage and the sport. Made some calls, spent some dollars, and am trying to get my brand on a hood and next too a big 400. It's an amazing day and experience, to be sure, but I may have rose colored glasses view of the experience. I was given stickers for my car window and wound up driving near pit road before we realized we were not in the credentials area. A red official window sticker apparently gets you anywhere you want to go. Hot lap in pace car is pretty fun too. Watched the end from pit road and was in the Gatorade winners circle Getting the confetti cannon shower to wrap up the day. I am starting to peel from the sunburn btw. It was a little overwhelming on some level because we we're told to go wherever we wanted, just don't get in the way and cars aren't stopping. Also I root for JJ cause of business type advantages.
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Sep 19, 2014 04:25
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LASTCAR posted:Well hey, welcome to the party! Am I the other? I've mainly hung out on IRC, but I will answer the questions anyway. Got into the sport because my father likes it and it gave us something to chat about. I'd watch with him sometimes and it grew on me. Fav driver is probably McMurray. And I root for Gordon because his was the name I used to hear or would hear interviews in the Bay Area back in the 90s. So I knew him coming into the sport. And I recommend joining IRC. It's a great place to learn.
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Sep 19, 2014 04:26
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Waltzing Along posted:Am I the other? Actually, three new guys. You, maffew buildings, and High_Life (in that order).
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Sep 19, 2014 05:39
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High_Life posted:To be fair I just recognized the compatibly of the product line I manage and the sport. Made some calls, spent some dollars, and am trying to get my brand on a hood and next too a big 400. It's an amazing day and experience, to be sure, but I may have rose colored glasses view of the experience. I was given stickers for my car window and wound up driving near pit road before we realized we were not in the credentials area. A red official window sticker apparently gets you anywhere you want to go. Hot lap in pace car is pretty fun too. Watched the end from pit road and was in the Gatorade winners circle Getting the confetti cannon shower to wrap up the day. I am starting to peel from the sunburn btw. It still sounds awesome. Like we were discussing here a while back, VIPs get good treatment, especially now since NASCAR is trying to court new sponsors and personalities. And a potential new sponsor, I presume? Neat. I'm sure you can't talk much about where you're looking to promote, but I'd love to hear anything you can disclose.
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Sep 19, 2014 05:45
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VikingSkull posted:NASCAR seems fun back then until you realize a lot of the time you're watching a 500 mile race at Dover with 4 cars on the lead lap. No lucky dog, no wave around. Any mid 90s race at Dover or Rockingham when they were 500 miles long. That's legit torture to watch. Also to who said it's not lovely racing where 3 cars are competitive and leader is way way far ahead, well rest of the racing wasn't that fun either. Even 20th was meh to me. Even with equalizing the cars to get everyone closer and harder to pass, there is at least the chance of passing and something exciting happening. Hell if they were that close in racing the 90s, they'd experience the same aero problems as of today. Racing has actually been fun this year. 2011 was great. I'd take the last 10 years of racing over the 90s to be honest. It wasn't that fun to watch outside of a Gordon fan curbstomping everyone. Wasn't until 2000 where that was a fun season to watch.
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Sep 19, 2014 05:49
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Why did Gordon curb stomp everyone? Best crew, car, tech before those things got equalized? From watching him it seems that he is just solid and steady so I can see how balancing everyone would bring the pack up to where he is.
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Sep 19, 2014 06:01
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I'm not clamoring to bring back the Dover 500 milers, because those were insane. I absolutely hate the idea that just bringing the cars closer together is what makes good racing, though. Yes, the gaps were bigger back then, because the performance differentials between cars was greater, but that also meant you could also reel in a 10 second gap on track back then because of those performance differentials. You also seemed to have more variations in performance during long green runs, and that's what made it bearable. Maybe tires degraded more back then, maybe the cars reacted more to changing conditions, or maybe it was just a result of them being more different in general. What it meant, though, was that long green flag runs were not only bearable, but actually desirable, because it made the race seem like a coherent narrative. Gordon pulls out a 10 second lead in the first stint, Martin improves his car, reels him in and takes the lead in the second stint, etc. I'm not joking when I say that NASCAR (especially on the intermediate ovals) was almost like endurance racing. These days, if a race has a long green stint, you can almost guarantee that nothing interesting happened, other than a bunch of cars running in line a few seconds apart. The races don't have any storyline other than "everyone can only pass in maybe the first three or four laps after a restart, some stupid poo poo happens in a GWC, end". There's no opportunity for storylines to develop through the race, and without those storylines, there's no reason to watch anything except the end.
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Sep 19, 2014 06:08
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Waltzing Along posted:Why did Gordon curb stomp everyone? Because he was insanely good, and his crew chief was insanely good (at cheating, but so were Roush/Yates). If you want to see exactly how good, look at the 1997 standings, and see how well the other Chevrolet drivers did. http://www.racing-reference.info/yeardet/1997/W (Chevrolet won 11 races that year. Gordon won 10, and Terry Labonte won 1.)
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Sep 19, 2014 06:11
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How did they cheat? E: next time I see my dad, I'm going to borrow the Nascar book I bought him. http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1412797845/ref=wms_ohs_product_img?ie=UTF8&psc=1 Seemed like a good book. Lot of information. Should be some good potty reading. Waltzing Along fucked around with this message at 06:30 on Sep 19, 2014 |
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Sep 19, 2014 06:27
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Just looking through the 90s points standings. 90, 92, 93, 95, 96, 97, all determined by less than 100 points. Old points system was 175 points for a win, +5 for leading, +5 for leading most, 43rd got 34 points, so you could in theory gain up to 151 points on someone in a race. This was long before the bullshit chase system we have today that started in 2004. Over a 30 race season, it still more than half the time was coming down to the final race, or worst case in all but 1 season, the final 2 races. Before this year, even cutting time you have to get championship points down to 1/3rd, the seasons have still been all but determined before the last race at least half the time. This year, it definitely will come down to last race, but for the most asinine reasons. I hope Brad wins the next 8 races and then crashes lap 1 in Homestead. Waltzing Along posted:How did they cheat? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wIPj7a0YyLU Look at those cars at just after 1:00 in and how sideways they are driving in a straight line. That's not how the cars were designed. Slickdrac fucked around with this message at 06:34 on Sep 19, 2014 |
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Sep 19, 2014 06:30
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Slickdrac posted:
Not sure what I was seeing that was cheating?
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Sep 19, 2014 06:41
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Waltzing Along posted:How did they cheat? That's a legimiately good book. Greg Fielden really knows his stuff. Lots of great pictures in it, too. If you can get your hands on it, I'd also recommend checking out his four-book series "Forty Years of Stock Car Racing", which has articles on every individual Cup race from 1949 through 1993. It's a little pricey and difficult to find, but if you can get a cheap copy of it, I'd recommend it. EDIT: wording LASTCAR fucked around with this message at 06:47 on Sep 19, 2014 |
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Sep 19, 2014 06:44
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My dad was quite happy with it. I glanced through it and it seemed to be everything a newcomer to NASCAR could want.
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Sep 19, 2014 07:31
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Waltzing Along posted:Not sure what I was seeing that was cheating? Look at the wall, and the side of the car, and the angle. This is going straight down the backstretch. Hendrick managed to make the COT basically drive sideways so they got a lot more downforce on the rear spoiler and more rear grip/power. TV camera angles really don't do proper justice to just how seriously kicked out the rear was on their cars.
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Sep 19, 2014 08:10
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Slickdrac posted:Look at the wall, and the side of the car, and the angle. This is going straight down the backstretch. Hendrick managed to make the COT basically drive sideways so they got a lot more downforce on the rear spoiler and more rear grip/power. TV camera angles really don't do proper justice to just how seriously kicked out the rear was on their cars. Can you dumb it down a little? What is COT? What did they do that is cheating? What was the rule? Remember, I am new to all this so have no idea what you are talking about.
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Sep 19, 2014 08:42
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COT = Car of Tomorrow
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Sep 19, 2014 08:49
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The sideways driving was a result of twisting the rear end housing under the car. The left rear wheel is pulled back towards the rear bumper, while the right rear is pushed forward. This gives the rear wheels a preload so to speak, making it easier to turn. You'll commonly hear this referred to as "rear steer", it first came around with Darrell Waltrip in the Tide car. Someone find that overhead shot of the Penske car that's completely bent. e- found it  See how the nose is bent towards the passenger side? The nose is what is pointed straight down the track, the rear of the car is kicked out to grab air over the spoiler. Cars got so bad like this that NASCAR made a yaw rule, banning such extreme setups. Watching cars drive sideways in a straight line was really cool, though. When F1 fans say NASCAR is old tech, show them that picture and see if they can figure it out. e2- this predates the CoT by a bit, as well. Chassis mods like this got banned, then the rear end fuckery got banned during the CoT's time. Seizure Meat fucked around with this message at 12:27 on Sep 19, 2014 |
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Sep 19, 2014 12:16
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I remember seeing a Rusty Wallace car that was converted to a show car by some dealership two years ago and was banana'd, it goes back as least that far.
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Sep 19, 2014 13:17
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Fag Boy Jim posted:I'm not clamoring to bring back the Dover 500 milers, because those were insane. I absolutely hate the idea that just bringing the cars closer together is what makes good racing, though. Yes, the gaps were bigger back then, because the performance differentials between cars was greater, but that also meant you could also reel in a 10 second gap on track back then because of those performance differentials. 2000 Rockingham spring was a great example of this. Labonte shot out to a huge lead only for Earnhardt to pull him back in by the end of the tire run. But hey, the cars are close now so its much better!
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Sep 19, 2014 15:17
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Slickdrac posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wIPj7a0YyLU Maybe Hendrick took better advantage of it, but I think all the cars were crabbing at some point. It was ridiculous. Waltzing Along posted:Can you dumb it down a little? The Car of Tomorrow was NASCAR's new, safer racecar, heavily designed by Brian France which debuted in 2007. Replacing the "Gen 4" (which looked like what Viking posted) and designed without input from teams, manufacturers, sponsors, and probably very little from drivers, the car was universally hated and eventually replaced in 2013 by the Gen 6 car thanks to anger from Ford, Chevy, Dodge, and Toyota, which is what you see on track today. Among its new features, the CoT had a common body style which made Fords, Chevies, Dodges, and Toyotas look the same, and a wing that France probably threw on because he thought it looked cool. It's one of the few utter failures Brian France has admitted to so far; France basically said "We put it in because I said it was going to work and thus it would, but it actually backfired". CBJSprague24 fucked around with this message at 15:45 on Sep 19, 2014 |
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Sep 19, 2014 15:42
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When cars were yawed out like that during the COT era, the worst offender always seemed to be Sam Hornish's 77.
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Sep 19, 2014 15:42
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Thank you for the answers, everyone. When did the cars start to become more alike? I'm guessing back in the 70s and earlier the cars were very different from one another. Was there a point of demarcation where NASCAR enforced engine size limits and the like?
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Sep 19, 2014 15:46
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Waltzing Along posted:Thank you for the answers, everyone. NASCAR only once ever flat banned an engine from competition, and that was to keep things from going pretty nuclear between dodge, ford and chevy back in the 60's. Look up the ford 429 "Cammer" motor for further reference. Don't know when exactly the big-blocks got officially written out of the rulebook altogether, but they had been well obsoleted by the high-power smallblocks of the early 80's era for some time by the time they did. Also I would write an effortpost on the hendrick rear end thing but I gotta run quick so here's the short and dirty version: The COT was such a horrible loving square box that at the high-speed tracks they just flat wouldn't turn because they were so aerodynamically tight. Everyone was playing with yawing out the rear end extensively just to get them through the corner, what HMS was doing was just the most evolved version. They were getting into all kinds of weird poo poo by the end, flexing truckarms, collapsing rear springs entirely, they even had some fancy bent-up u-bolts that NASCAR really did't like. They were horrible to drive because they had so much rear steer in em the that front and rear drove completely disconnected. It was a necessary evil though, because the original COT design was just so tight that without it the cars just wou'dn't turn worth a drat at high speeds. They had to have the yaw forced into them with the rear end because if it wasn't you'd go off into the corner and the air would grab the right rear and just pull the car back straight no matter how hard you tried.
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Sep 19, 2014 15:59
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 Research the "Doomsday Hemi" for further on the engine wars. You can start with the Pontiac Mystery motor and work forward if you want to know the full engine story.
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Sep 19, 2014 16:20
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Should've added this to my post, but this is the 2007 CoT: http://nascar.about.com/od/cars/ig/NASCAR-Dodge-Avenger/NASCAR-Dodge-Avenger-Walkup.htm
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Sep 19, 2014 16:43
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