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KataraniSword posted:Don't forget about the pirates we apparently left inside Tanzer even after their leader almost got his(?) fool rear end digested. She ran out ahead of the party. They probably just got on a different shipwreck. Also, she shows up in the ending.
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Sep 27, 2014 19:36
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Nomad is a woman, and honestly I don't feel too bad for the guy in this update. He's no worse off than when we first encountered him, and as far as we know he didn't even try to catch the mouse. He could have taken at least a little initiative.
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Sep 27, 2014 19:37
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I Love You! posted:The crippling thing about SaGa 2 is the simple fact that SaGa games are more or less about building up a ridiculous murderparty of cool custom dudes with abilities you have scraped and scrapped for and put together in a fun configuration and in SaGa 2 they just disappear and you realize that nothing you did necessarily will matter by the time you get to a narrative conclusion. Wow, so this is a lot of value judgments about how you want to interact with the game and not about what the game wants to do. Think about the game's name: it's about pushing the envelope of storytelling in a video game. You picked a character you liked and were rewarded with a character's dramatic death scene. Yes, the game has a pretty unique premise and doesn't quickly get that point across. But its point is about characters that have goals and loves, characters that age and die. It is not about a group of teenagers and one fuzzy mascot character that team up to kill God with the power of friendship. The main character isn't mute for the player's self-insertion fantasy. SF2 has other axes to grind. You approached it as if it was a white bread JRPG. If you feel that it punished you for that, then I'll tell you you'll respect the game a lot more if you change your viewpoint. It's an individual game that doesn't deserve to be compared to JRPGs with churned-out plots, like Xenoblade or Legend of Dragoon or something. I'm sure you've played a boilerplate JRPG. The unique thrust of the game is that it's generational. It's like a montage of these characters' lives. For all we know, the entirety of FF13 could have taken place over a weekend. But characters in SF2 have a context in time. The events of the world happen over a long period of time, and wars don't begin and end in a day (hello FF8). That more realistic approach means the game has a more realistic approach to characters as well. For God's sake, Wil AGES. Can you name another JRPG main character who grows old? Even in the end credits? So to answer your question, "Does anything I'm doing even matter?", no. In a JRPG nothing you ever do will matter. Ever. Usually, your prepubescent spiky-haired boy will kill God, who is a metaphor for adulthood or the West, usually by overcoming physics or the magical rules of the world by his incredible shouty willpower, and he will kiss the love interest, who will sacrifice herself or is compromised in some way, exactly once the entire game. Forever. For all time. This will always happen. You are a passive experiencer of these events. The game has fooled you into identifying with or appreciating the characters in some way; through their design or main-character muteness or by making it exciting to control this avatar or whatever. Thus you think what you do matters, because the characters believe what they do matters. For me, that's horse poo poo. I'm sick of games trying to do that. I don't often identify with any hero, certainly not nonracial crypt orchids. Those passive experiences, watching the good guy beat the bad guy in cut scenes, they hook other people and make them feel more active. Not me. So gently caress it. I can't just watch weirdos smack monsters with retardedly impossible swords in a world where they'll never age or die or have sex. SF2, though, is a breath a fresh air. Well, not terribly fresh. It's pretty clumsy a lot of times. But it's a step in a new, awesome direction. You watch that character die and ask yourself "Did anything I do matter?" In the game, though, time moves on. She is dead and Wil marries another woman. They continue questing for a while, then settle down and have a kid, who becomes an adventurer himself. Time moves on and the games asks you, "Did her sacrifice matter?"
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Sep 28, 2014 01:25
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MartianAgitator posted:Well, not terribly fresh. It's pretty clumsy a lot of times. But it's a step in a new, awesome direction. Well, if by "step in a new direction" you mean the developers immediately tripped over their feet and died because they never made any other game remotely like it, then yes. While I do respect the game for trying something different, it certainly didn't have any effect on the industry or even its own series.
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Sep 28, 2014 01:44
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MartianAgitator posted:You picked a character you liked and were rewarded with a character's dramatic death scene. ... That's a pretty lovely "reward". If I send the character on the mission, and she dies because I played the mission sloppy or didn't prepare properly ahead of time, like in a Fire Emblem game, that's one thing; that's on my head. It sucks, but I can live with that, because I had a fair chance to keep her from dying and I blew it. But when the character is automatically bumped off because the drat plot demanded it should I send them on that mission, that's bullshit. That's no different than those "passive experiences" in all those JRPGs that you can't stand. When the life and death of the player's characters is taken out of the player's hands, when player agency is removed and a character dies because plot fiat, then the player has every right to get mad at the game, because yes, it is punishing the player for not knowing what would happen ahead of time.
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Sep 28, 2014 02:01
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MartianAgitator posted:The unique thrust of the game is that it's generational. It's like a montage of these characters' lives. For all we know, the entirety of FF13 could have taken place over a weekend. But characters in SF2 have a context in time. The events of the world happen over a long period of time, and wars don't begin and end in a day (hello FF8). That more realistic approach means the game has a more realistic approach to characters as well. For God's sake, Wil AGES. Can you name another JRPG main character who grows old? Even in the end credits? Yes. One's from this game. I get what you're saying about the heroes growing old in SF2, but it's not unheard of, though it's usually between games, rather than over the course of a single game, which is where SF2 distinguishes itself.
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Sep 28, 2014 02:55
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And we only had that boss fight because Riki accidentally steps on a giant monster? Maybe you should keep a "Riki's Quest Hates Riki" counter.
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Sep 28, 2014 03:49
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Glazius posted:And we only had that boss fight because Riki accidentally steps on a giant monster? Nah, anyone can fight that dumbass if they go in the area.
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Sep 28, 2014 03:53
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Ryushikaze posted:Nah, anyone can fight that dumbass if they go in the area. I don't think so. As far as I'm aware Emelia and Riki are the only ones who can trigger that encounter. I bumbled into his cave while I was following the mouse, but the fight didn't trigger until I had chased the mouse into his room.
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Sep 28, 2014 03:56
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Back when I was a dumb 13-year old playing SF2, the only reason I liked it was because I had the strategy guide, and so I wasn't feeling the absence of any characters or even confused by plot progression because I knew how the gameplay would pan out and followed the events chronologically. Understood it perfectly and thought it was some great Matsuno style poo poo even if they dropped the ball a bit on Gustave's story later on, especially compared to SF1's anime story. Still didn't help me at South Moundtop or the final boss though. Definitely couldn't handle the two all-party minibosses in the final dungeon. I even remember getting in a duel with a slime on the pirate raid mission of Wil's scenario, and couldn't do anything because staffs don't hurt slimes. When simple problems like that can be nipped in the bud, never mind the plot progression and characters randomly being shifted out, which aren't inherently awry but are deliberately presented that way to confuse, that's just laziness. And being rewarded with a death scene is silly. It's like in many JRPG's, why do they even give you the option to decline many side quests or characters joining, when the only purpose of doing so is to lose said opportunity? Punish the player if you want in an unorthodox way, but also reward him at the same time with something else, an item, a sidequest, something to make it worth it other than to make someone sneer at objectively bad game design. Never mind the player punch, the character in question is pretty drat good on her own, and her replacement is mediocre by comparison both story and battle wise. Shitenshi fucked around with this message at 04:27 on Sep 28, 2014 |
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Sep 28, 2014 04:22
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MartianAgitator posted:The unique thrust of the game is that it's generational . . . The more I hear about SF2's premise the more it sounds like Phantasy Star 3, one of the wost JRPGs of all time.
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Sep 28, 2014 05:54
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Chuu posted:The more I hear about SF2's premise the more it sounds like Phantasy Star 3, one of the wost JRPGs of all time. It had a considerable amount of charm. And a whole shitload of flaws.
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Sep 28, 2014 06:29
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Kulkasha posted:It had a considerable amount of charm. And a whole shitload of flaws. This is the review of every saga game ever.
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Sep 28, 2014 06:39
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Shwqa posted:This is the review of every saga game ever.  Does it exist?
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Sep 28, 2014 07:31
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W.T. Fits posted:... That's a pretty lovely "reward". If I send the character on the mission, and she dies because I played the mission sloppy or didn't prepare properly ahead of time, like in a Fire Emblem game, that's one thing; that's on my head. It sucks, but I can live with that, because I had a fair chance to keep her from dying and I blew it. You missed my point. Yes, both SF2 and regular JRPGs have cut scenes. Regular JRPGs basically have all the same characters in all the same cut scenes and they don't engage me. SF2 tried new things and that was engaging to me. I recognize they are both passive experiences and I'm saying when one stops hooking you in, try the other - but don't come in with the same expectations. For example, you seem to value emotional connections with characters and are distressed when they die: you feel you failed. (I'm not trying to psychoanalyze you or any patronizing bullshit like that, this is just an assumption.) When you win the characters should win and vice versa. That's fine. Games cater almost exclusively to this attitude. You win==character gets good ending, ergo character dies==you lost. SF2 is different. When you win you are rewarded with story scenes that don't necessarily feature the characters winning or doing "good" things. In Gustave, the game offers you a main character that is far harder to identify with than your typical White-Guy-with-a-Sword hero. If it gives you the feel-bads when you play it, I assume it's because you are expecting it to be a regular game that it is not. That's my point. Watching these characters live out complicated (by JRPG standard) lives is the real thrust and the real treat. If you go into the game not knowing what to expect and approaching it on its own terms, it's exciting and new and rewarding. (Kinda...It's sure not perfect.)
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Sep 28, 2014 07:33
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Panic! at Nabisco posted:I didn't get far enough to see the charm in Unlimited SaGa. Absolutely. What you do is, don't play the game at all, and instead marvel at the gorgeous sprite work, great character art, and quite possibly the best music Masashi Hamauzu has ever composed.
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Sep 28, 2014 07:35
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CmdrKing posted:Absolutely. What you do is, don't play the game at all, and instead marvel at the gorgeous sprite work, great character art, and quite possibly the best music Masashi Hamauzu has ever composed. Such good music that he basically recycled the Unlimited Saga battletheme into Final Fantasy XIII.
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Sep 28, 2014 07:39
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dotchan posted:Such good music that he basically recycled the Unlimited Saga battletheme into Final Fantasy XIII. Oh wow, I did not remember the main battle theme to USaGa but yeah, there is definitely a lot of that in Blinded by Light now that I'm re-listening to it.
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Sep 28, 2014 07:54
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Speaking of U SaGa, does it even have a potentially interesting story and lore in the background at all, or did people realize this game is pretty hosed even for SaGa standards? And for a PS2 game, it's sprite work still can't hold a candle to SF2's graphics.
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Sep 28, 2014 08:06
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I tried. I tried so very hard to get into Unlimited Saga. But at the time it was so obtuse and there wasn't (still kinda doesnt) any documentation on the game.
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Sep 28, 2014 08:07
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dude789 posted:I don't think so. As far as I'm aware Emelia and Riki are the only ones who can trigger that encounter. I bumbled into his cave while I was following the mouse, but the fight didn't trigger until I had chased the mouse into his room. Maybe I'm thinking of another way to trigger fighting him, but I could have sworn I'd thrown down with that beast as all characters.
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Sep 28, 2014 08:20
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KirbyKhan posted:I tried. I tried so very hard to get into Unlimited Saga. But at the time it was so obtuse and there wasn't (still kinda doesnt) any documentation on the game. Yeah, I held on to the gme for a while after release hoping FAQs might help me out since I was rather hopelessly lost in some quest playing as Laura, but after a few months I gave up. That sort of stuff might exist now (I've never looked really) but... I don't think the basic mechanics were ever really figured out. Like, comboing, how does it work. It's kinda really important! Although truthfully the game's kinda hosed even if there is some rhyme or reason to turn order and comboing due to the way levelling up works. You only level at the end of dungeons AND it's less gaining new stats and skills and more "hope like hell you roll a new slot that's better than what you already have seeing as you HAVE to delete one and take one of the ones you rolled"? What even the hell Unlimited Saga. e: Really I think the intent with Unlimited Saga was to bring ridiculously RNG dependent RPGs, sorta like really super old school pnp kinda stuff (or wargames more? My early tabletop knowledge is not the best) back into the spotlight. Turns out when you can't buy the book of stat tables that tells you what the rolls mean or see the rolls for that it really pisses people off because they don't even know why the game has stalemated them. Ain't nobody got time for that poo poo and all. CmdrKing fucked around with this message at 08:56 on Sep 28, 2014 |
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Sep 28, 2014 08:53
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Apparently a few people HAVE dug out the mechanics on USaGa. I haven't had a chance to sit down and watch them because I haven't felt like going back to it in a long time.
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Sep 28, 2014 22:59
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Raitzeno posted:Apparently a few people HAVE dug out the mechanics on USaGa. I haven't had a chance to sit down and watch them because I haven't felt like going back to it in a long time. I'm really glad that someone has sat down and done this. That being said, a video is a really bad way to get across this information. The first video (10 minutes) could have been summed up in a FAQ in about half a page.
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Sep 28, 2014 23:56
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Chuu posted:I'm really glad that someone has sat down and done this. That being said, a video is a really bad way to get across this information. The first video (10 minutes) could have been summed up in a FAQ in about half a page. I personally agree, but in this case I think I'll take what I can get. Besides, would YOU want to have to sit down and write a FAQ about this system?
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Sep 29, 2014 00:05
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A couple years ago I watched that entire series, determined to enjoy Unlimited SaGa. I still didn't enjoy it, even knowing the mechanics a little more. 
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Sep 29, 2014 00:16
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Just played through the section for the next update. I seem to have somehow locked myself out of completing the Arcane quest as well.
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Sep 30, 2014 03:19
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dude789 posted:Just played through the section for the next update. I seem to have somehow locked myself out of completing the Arcane quest as well. Does that count as the game hates Riki, or the game hates you?
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Sep 30, 2014 03:46
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dude789 posted:Just played through the section for the next update. I seem to have somehow locked myself out of completing the Arcane quest as well. How? Why? How? Remember, Jesus Love you, even if Riki's quest despises you worse than family feuds fueled by generations old blood vendettas.
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Sep 30, 2014 03:51
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dude789 posted:Just played through the section for the next update. I seem to have somehow locked myself out of completing the Arcane quest as well. That's because of your adventures in Baccarat, right? You probably flagged the Gold card traversing through the underground somehow.
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Sep 30, 2014 03:56
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dude789 posted:Just played through the section for the next update. I seem to have somehow locked myself out of completing the Arcane quest as well. +3
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Sep 30, 2014 04:36
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dude789 posted:Just played through the section for the next update. I seem to have somehow locked myself out of completing the Arcane quest as well. Just another part of the bad ideas on parade that is Riki's scenario. You can only get the gift for light, shadow and (I think) mind magic for your humans. No arcane or rune and no realm by proxy cause Rouge is busy not lowering his stature by being associated with this awful scenario. Can't say as I blame him.
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Sep 30, 2014 05:32
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I distinctly recall being able to get the gift for Arcane in this scenario. Perhaps you simply need to do it before being sent to Baccarat for the ring? EDIT: But if nothing else, I THINK Nusaken starts with the gift for Arcane. Maybe? I know he starts with the Death spell, which is normally only attainable with the gift, but he may simply have it for motif reasons and not actually have the gift. Again, I'm not sure because I haven't played the game in forever and should probably fix that. *goes to look for his copy*
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Sep 30, 2014 06:26
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I've just gone through 140 or so posts, I hadn't checked the thread in a while. So this is a little late, but: I actually imported a PocketStation for SaGa Frontier 2 and FFVIII. It wasn't all that expensive, if memory serves. Even so I kinda wasted my money, since I never used it enough to get anything decent in SF2 or even see Choco Flare in FFVIII.
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Sep 30, 2014 11:52
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Niton posted:That's because of your adventures in Baccarat, right? You probably flagged the Gold card traversing through the underground somehow. I'm fairly sure this is the case. I started the quest to pick up Emelia and then did Riki's stuff in Baccarat which probably overided the Gold Card triggers. Now I can't finish the Gold Card quest and none of the others will even start. This is my fault, but keep in mind that there's no warning that this could happen and that the Baccarat ring quest is started immediately once you talk to Mei-Ling in Koorong.
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Sep 30, 2014 13:07
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dude789 posted:I'm fairly sure this is the case. I started the quest to pick up Emelia and then did Riki's stuff in Baccarat which probably overided the Gold Card triggers. Now I can't finish the Gold Card quest and none of the others will even start. This is my fault, but keep in mind that there's no warning that this could happen and that the Baccarat ring quest is started immediately once you talk to Mei-Ling in Koorong. Riki's Quest, everybody.
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Sep 30, 2014 14:44
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dude789 posted:I'm fairly sure this is the case. I started the quest to pick up Emelia and then did Riki's stuff in Baccarat which probably overided the Gold Card triggers. Now I can't finish the Gold Card quest and none of the others will even start. This is my fault, but keep in mind that there's no warning that this could happen and that the Baccarat ring quest is started immediately once you talk to Mei-Ling in Koorong. So, if you want the arcane gift on everyone you can, you'll need to start the quest after getting this ring. Which means holding off on getting Emilia for a while.
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Sep 30, 2014 17:22
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dude789 posted:Now I can't finish the Gold Card quest and none of the others will even start.
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Sep 30, 2014 20:41
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FredMSloniker posted:Wait, none of them? You're now locked out of all magic gifts? Nah, you can get the gift for light, shadow and I think mind magic. I vaguely remember that Riki can do the arcane one, too. Don't hold me to this cause I haven't played his scenario in a while and really do not want to, but I think it is something overly obtuse like you have to go to start the quest directly after Tanzer without talking to Mei-ling at all. In the context of his awful scenario something incredibly obtuse for something that taint no thang for any other character; including the robut which cannot use magic at all, would at least be consistent with the rest of his shitshow scenario.
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Sep 30, 2014 22:00
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Basically, you have to either do the Gold Card before or have not gone anywhere near it until after that ring, otherwise you're screwed.
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Sep 30, 2014 22:52
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