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The best way for a dishwasher to get out of dishpit is to be eager to do extra work when they have time. Seek it out and ask if there's some prep to help with while free/between loads. Not by asking to step out of it but by actively seeking extra work. I work in a place that has two awesome dishwashers who are more like kitchen hands and one lazy dishwasher who doesn't even wash dishes properly and looks for ways to avoid work, including saying "that's not what I'm here to do". Advancement comes with eagerness and effort put in, not by asking. As for putting in dues... Any chef will say the same thing. I spent 6 months in my first place washing dishes just to get used to kitchens. That's after random kitchenhand /dishwasher jobs I had when a bit younger and at the time, hated. It's all about the willingness to help, not the desire to get out.
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Oct 6, 2014 02:41
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Honestly, 90% of 'dues' nonsense is chefs trying to justify getting workers to put up with absurd conditions because the industry would collapse if they insisted on being paid and treated like valuable labor. In other news, one of the guys I used to cook with is in jail on 50k bond for possession with intent to distribute a shitload of heroin!
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Oct 6, 2014 03:17
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Love how on one page we're talking about how the industry takes advantage of people and on the next it's "you gotta pay your dues"... for a guy who's spent a year in a dishpit already. I don't know any pro cooks who had to spend a year in a dishpit, that's loving ridiculous.
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Oct 6, 2014 04:16
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To be fair, they're not saying you have to pay your dues to get good money, job security and being treated like a human, they're saying you have to pay your dues to be a line cook, where you will continue to be taken advantage of! I love my dishpit where it's safe and warm
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Oct 6, 2014 04:20
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I spent probably about 9-10 months in the pit before getting any prep shifts, and I wasn't totally off dishwashing until about a year and a half in. Sometimes they just can't find people to replace you. However, the place I was at had incredibly high turnover and was generally a lovely place to work. Nothing too dramatic, so it's not really worth going into, but everyone just treated everyone else shittily and nobody cared.
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Oct 6, 2014 04:21
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Liquid Communism posted:Honestly, 90% of 'dues' nonsense is chefs trying to justify getting workers to put up with absurd conditions because the industry would collapse if they insisted on being paid and treated like valuable labor. This. Also, what loving planet do you work on that a dishwasher has spare time?!
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Oct 6, 2014 04:28
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Australia. Where I work our staff are actually paid properly (which us standard here because it's not the US). As for spare time... Our dishwashers/kitchenhands do a little prep on the side as standard and they sure don't whine about it.. Because it's just... Work. Well. Aside from the one I mentioned but he doesn't even scrub plates he just hoses them lightly. And then half of them get sent back because they have stains that could be wiped off with a cloth, if not worse marks. And about dues... What kitchen are you in that you'd want to leave the dish pit for line cooking? The dishpit is simple, repetitive and mindless. As much as I love what I do there's something pleasing in a chance to jump in and push plates through and watch them. come out shiny and clean. A good dishwasher is a great thing to have and to treat well and with respect. It's not about keeping them down and stuck... If I was running the kitchen and they wanted to jump in and learn, I'd give them a chance for sure... But of the good two, one is studying at university and the other does it during the week only and is happy that way.
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Oct 6, 2014 04:42
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Back when I was a kid I bussed tables as my first restaurant gig before offer to help prep on times that our stations were set up but no one was in the restaurant. Then it became come in early and clock in as a prep and you can be the first busser out at close. Then it was all prep at a new place before the line. Then it was nuclear reactors in the Navy... Weird.
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Oct 6, 2014 06:06
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Liquid Communism posted:Honestly, 90% of 'dues' nonsense is chefs trying to justify getting workers to put up with absurd conditions because the industry would collapse if they insisted on being paid and treated like valuable labor. I was being flippant and I feel like I misrepresented myself here: I don't really believe that you're obligated to spend a year or two in the pit or dicing onions before you get to move onto "better things," but, in my experience, it takes around that amount of time for the average person to go from being a complete newbie to being someone who has a functional understanding on how to work in a kitchen. There are always exceptions to the rule, naturally: I hired this 18 year-old dude a few years back as a zero-experience dishwasher who turned out to be a complete natural and went on to take my place as lead line after I left that job. That guy had the perfect confluence of personality traits: great work ethic, naturally skilled, and fun as hell to work with. I was not that lucky when I first started, and it took a year and a half or so of me being a huge liability until I got to the point where high-volume kitchens actually made sense to me. When I say that new guys should "pay their dues," I don't mean it in the sense that they need to play the kitchen hierarchy bullshit game and obey the pecking order that has existed since that one French guy realized that he had a good excuse to treat his coworkers like poo poo, but that if you can't (or just don't want to) spend a decent chunk of your life being the best dishwasher possible, then you really shouldn't be in this industry in the first place. Radio Help fucked around with this message at 13:06 on Oct 6, 2014 |
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Oct 6, 2014 13:03
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Man I gotta break down 50 pounds of lamb leg today for skewers and all this talk about washing dishes is making me envious.
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Oct 6, 2014 18:44
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Republicans posted:Man I gotta break down 50 pounds of lamb leg today for skewers and all this talk about washing dishes is making me envious. God speed to you sir.
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Oct 6, 2014 19:31
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Radio Help posted:I was being flippant and I feel like I misrepresented myself here: I don't really believe that you're obligated to spend a year or two in the pit or dicing onions before you get to move onto "better things," but, in my experience, it takes around that amount of time for the average person to go from being a complete newbie to being someone who has a functional understanding on how to work in a kitchen. There are always exceptions to the rule, naturally: I hired this 18 year-old dude a few years back as a zero-experience dishwasher who turned out to be a complete natural and went on to take my place as lead line after I left that job. That guy had the perfect confluence of personality traits: great work ethic, naturally skilled, and fun as hell to work with. I was not that lucky when I first started, and it took a year and a half or so of me being a huge liability until I got to the point where high-volume kitchens actually made sense to me. When I say that new guys should "pay their dues," I don't mean it in the sense that they need to play the kitchen hierarchy bullshit game and obey the pecking order that has existed since that one French guy realized that he had a good excuse to treat his coworkers like poo poo, but that if you can't (or just don't want to) spend a decent chunk of your life being the best dishwasher possible, then you really shouldn't be in this industry in the first place. I was with you until the last sentence, because frankly no one (in the States) pays dishwashers enough that being the 'best dishwasher possible' for any length of time is anything other than economic suicide. There's a reason all of the unionized trades pay their apprentices a living wage while they're doing the scutwork and learning all the poo poo they need to know to be up to standard in their craft, and it's because people do a better job when they're not destitute. Liquid Communism fucked around with this message at 21:23 on Oct 6, 2014 |
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Oct 6, 2014 20:23
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Yeah, most places give dishwashers the financial shaft and it's loving dumb. The owner of the place I was lead line at was a weirdly compassionate guy and paid people based on how long they'd been there instead of what station they were in, and back of house split tips equally, and I think that helped the kitchen dynamic function really well. That is never, ever going to be a common thing, though. Nobody in the Stateside kitchen world gets paid what they're worth unless they're in an institutional setting.Republicans posted:Man I gotta break down 50 pounds of lamb leg today for skewers and all this talk about washing dishes is making me envious. Man you're gonna hate the hell out of silverskin by the end of that
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Oct 6, 2014 20:56
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Radio Help posted:Nobody in the Stateside kitchen world gets paid what they're worth unless they're in an institutional setting. Arguably not even then. I'll bust dish in smaller places no problem, but I've never seen a dishpit get whomped like at a capacity hotel doing 250+ cover banquet services.
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Oct 6, 2014 21:27
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Radio Help posted:Man you're gonna hate the hell out of silverskin by the end of that Eh, you get used to it when you do it every week and a half. For over three years. 
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Oct 6, 2014 21:36
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Willie Tomg posted:Arguably not even then. I'll bust dish in smaller places no problem, but I've never seen a dishpit get whomped like at a capacity hotel doing 250+ cover banquet services. Aren't most hotel/institutional kitchens unionized? I've never worked in one, personally.
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Oct 6, 2014 21:59
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Radio Help posted:Aren't most hotel/institutional kitchens unionized? I've never worked in one, personally. Not in the U.S., unions are evil and just want to take your money here!
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Oct 6, 2014 22:04
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Chef De Cuisinart posted:Not in the U.S., unions are evil and just want to take your money here! Shoulda figured. I used to get all wino impassioned and rant about how desperately there needs to be a stable service industry union, and even friends of mine who had never worked in restaurants were like "haha there's no way in hell that will ever happen." they were right 
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Oct 6, 2014 22:08
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Chef De Cuisinart posted:Not in the U.S., unions are evil and just want to take your money here! I try to pay my employee well, he is at 11 an hour to be basically a short order cook. I do all the design, prep and when we are working busy days expo. But it's really a 2 man kitchen and I shaft him with portioning during service and dishes during the night and at the end of service. But 11 an hour is max what I can pay ATM until business improves.
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Oct 6, 2014 22:10
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Yep. Unionization would require it not being quite so cheap and easy to fire everyone who's interested and hire in scrubs. 'Right to work' makes it even worse.
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Oct 6, 2014 22:13
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Radio Help posted:Aren't most hotel/institutional kitchens unionized? I've never worked in one, personally. Local 8, y'all. NYC is a magical place.
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Oct 6, 2014 23:01
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Hey everyone. I opened up a thread before I realized this one existed, so I'll ask my question here. I'm interested in pursuing culinary arts as a career. It's what I've always wanted to do, and now I have the option to do so. I know it will be difficult, but I've decided that it will be worth the experience if anything and it's something I am passionate about. That being said, I live in NYC and I am looking at different schools in my area. I've applied to the International Culinary Center's program for professional culinary arts, but I'm not sure if this is actually a good choice or rather some kind of for-profit nonsense that won't get me anywhere. The idea of doing a 9 month program before being able to work in a kitchen is very appealing to me, but I want to hear some advice from people who have done it themselves.
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Oct 7, 2014 02:39
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Pick up some shifts as a dishwasher before you spend the money on culinary school. It'll help you see if it's something you can see yourself doing. Edit: I guess I should expand a bit more. Professional cooking is very stressful, demanding, sometimes tedious, uncomfortable and occasionally dangerous work, and chances are very good you won't make very much money doing it. It has a lot of inherent benefits, though: it's a skill-oriented job and after you become experienced, you can do it pretty much anywhere there's work, cooks are generally very interesting crazypeople that are fun to hang out with, and the work itself is very honest and straightforward. Culinary school is a great place to learn to learn techniques, but they don't always do a great job preparing you for the reality of how chaotic and stressful the Friday night rush can be (though some of them are better at easing you into it with mid-term externships and things like that). You won't be treated like a specialist because you have a culinary degree, and some people will actively dislike you for it, especially oldboys. I'd recommend that you try cooking without going to school for a few years, see if it's a worthwhile investment of your time, and then go to culinary school. Radio Help fucked around with this message at 03:30 on Oct 7, 2014 |
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Oct 7, 2014 02:57
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Aussie Chef cuts and cooks his girlfriend up. Ever had one of those bad days?
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Oct 7, 2014 03:17
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bowmore posted:Aussie Chef cuts and cooks his girlfriend up. Jesus i thought i was too high-strung for this industry
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Oct 7, 2014 03:28
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bowmore posted:Aussie Chef cuts and cooks his girlfriend up. I am not very clever so I spent the last few minutes trying to think of a way to combine "girlfriend" and "demiglaze" this is what I do on my days off
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Oct 7, 2014 03:33
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Radio Help posted:I'd recommend that you try cooking without going to school for a few years, see if it's a worthwhile investment of your time, and then go to culinary school. But by then all the tuition will've been spent on booze!
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Oct 7, 2014 04:08
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Simoom posted:Jesus i thought i was too high-strung for this industry This is actually all over the front pages of the lovely rags here. He also, apparently, killed himself after running from police, while hiding in a bin or something. (didn't actually read the article that's just what I've heard) E: must resist bad joke Sir Spaniard fucked around with this message at 04:37 on Oct 7, 2014 |
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Oct 7, 2014 04:32
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good lord. stories like this remind me to stick to my dishpit and my studies, cuz right now im drinking, and i think i wanna go back and ask my old chef if there's any space for me, cuz the man says he'd love to have me back anytime, but on the other hand, i definitely don't want to die in a bin by my own hand, and that's the only logical ending to me in a professional kitchen.
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Oct 7, 2014 04:47
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I'm pretty sure there were some serious psychological issues going on there before he decided he would like to eat someone.
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Oct 7, 2014 04:57
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Like wanting to be a chef? badum tish
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Oct 7, 2014 06:10
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Radio Help posted:Pick up some shifts as a dishwasher before you spend the money on culinary school. It'll help you see if it's something you can see yourself doing. This is absolutely correct and, expanding on it a little bit, if you can do absolutely anything else you probably should. I felt the same way when I was ~18 and started working in restaurants but it's probably one of the worst long-term career moves you can make if you consider things like "Retiring", "Having Insurance", and "Being employed from 50+" to be important things you'd like to do. Most of the people I knew in the industry that went to culinary school (generally this was Le Cordon Bleu or some other one I can't remember) worked the same positions as I did and got paid less for it. The only reason to attend a school (and this applies to hospitality and a shitton of other fields as well) is to make connections and get job hookups. If you want to work at a restaurant where the dishwashers bust out centimeter perfect 1/8" julienne for garnishes and you get laughed out of the building if you don't know how to pronounce "Chiffonade", "Accoutrement", or don't know what a "Coulis" is, probably take it seriously and spend money going to culinary school for the opportunity to maybe, if you're lucky, work an unpaid 6 month stage at <fancy restaurant>. If you want to work literally anywhere else - get a job as a dishwasher and see where it takes you. If you can, and your parents are rich and will pay for your poo poo or whatever, it's probably a much better call to shoot for FoH as a maitre d or sommelier. I have a buddy who eventually said gently caress it, left BoH, and had his parents pay for a degree from CIA + sommelier certification and that seems to be working out much, much, much better for him than for everyone else we knew that is still cooking. e: also you're probably gonna get fat as hell. Pretty sure I completely destroyed my cholesterol or whatever. 12 rats tied together fucked around with this message at 06:45 on Oct 7, 2014 |
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Oct 7, 2014 06:42
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We call it "restaurant iq," when some people walk across a room they do 4 useful things, when a twice a month banquet server walks through the kitchen they get in 2 people's ways and spill something. Edit: I just learned awful app doesn't refresh if you go straight to the thread you read last pile of brown fucked around with this message at 09:03 on Oct 7, 2014 |
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Oct 7, 2014 09:01
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Verisimilidude posted:Hey everyone. I opened up a thread before I realized this one existed, so I'll ask my question here. Honestly, go wash a dish unless someone is paying for culinary school out of their pocket for you. The chef I used to work for taught pastry arts part time, and the 5 year rate of grads still being in the industry was something like 1 in 20.
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Oct 7, 2014 09:23
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Verisimilidude posted:I'm interested in pursuing culinary arts as a career. It's what I've always wanted to do, and now I have the option to do so. I know it will be difficult, but I've decided that it will be worth the experience if anything and it's something I am passionate about. lmao you have not thought this through at all and the real world is not big on second chances IME Reiz posted:If you want to work at a restaurant where the dishwashers bust out centimeter perfect 1/8" julienne for garnishes and you get laughed out of the building if you don't know how to pronounce "Chiffonade", "Accoutrement", or don't know what a "Coulis" is, probably take it seriously and spend money going to culinary school for the opportunity to maybe, if you're lucky, work an unpaid 6 month stage at <fancy restaurant>. Liquid Communism posted:Honestly, go wash a dish unless someone is paying for culinary school out of their pocket for you. This is what you "want" to do, even if you don't know it yet.
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Oct 7, 2014 10:39
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"I have a strong passion for delicious food!" --100% of people whom require food to survive
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Oct 7, 2014 10:44
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Also consider the number of regular posters in this thread who are no longer in the industry but who hang out here anyway and what it says about cooking as a potential career path. I have to confess that one of the reasons I read it is that it reminds me what my old jobs were like when I'm having a bad day with my new one, and I actually had pretty good working conditions (it turns out) compared to some posters. The way that the field changes as you age is something that I think deserves emphasis too. I'm in my mid-30s now, and I cooked through my 20s. When I started it seemed like a vibrant field where lots of young, energetic people work hard and do exciting things. It was pretty fun for a while being 22 and working around people my own age. The social aspects of the job no longer have any appeal for me. If I was stuck on a line with a bunch of younger shitstains now, I'd probably be contemplating suicide. "Strong passion" won't carry you through that. You need unhealthy obsession or some kind of desperation. Unless you're buying pigs heads and making your own mortadella just to experiment, get a job and try out the industry before spending your money on tuition. If something bad happened and I needed to get back into a regular kitchen to pay my rent, I'd look for a job a) as full-time dishwasher, b) in unfashionable breakfast place, c) grilling burgers on a small line, or d) making salads/plating deserts on a larger one. I found that those were the least frustrating positions in the machine, anyway. Small banquets were also less soul-destroying than daily line rushes, but the hours aren't really there.
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Oct 7, 2014 14:04
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CommonShore posted:Also consider the number of regular posters in this thread who are no longer in the industry but who hang out here anyway and what it says about cooking as a potential career path. I have to confess that one of the reasons I read it is that it reminds me what my old jobs were like when I'm having a bad day with my new one, and I actually had pretty good working conditions (it turns out) compared to some posters. This, basically. Cooking was great when I was in my twenties, but I currently make ten times more money than I did when I was a cook. That's beyond ridiculous. Don't go to culinary school. If you want to cook, go stage somewhere super awesome for six months first/instead.
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Oct 7, 2014 14:51
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EAT THE EGGS RICOLA posted:Don't go to culinary school. If you want to cook, go stage somewhere super awesome for six months first/instead. I can't believe I forgot the best argument for this, too, which is the cost/benefit analysis - if you go to culinary school, you will pay your money to learn too-theoretical skills without an understanding of how they apply to a business context. If you work somewhere, you will be paid actual money to learn how things work in the actual trenches.
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Oct 7, 2014 15:07
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EAT THE EGGS RICOLA posted:This, basically. Cooking was great when I was in my twenties, but I currently make ten times more money than I did when I was a cook. That's beyond ridiculous. Yep. Three weeks after I walked out of the bakery over yet another late check I was signing an offer for $25 an hour as a computer janitor. I occasionally miss baking, but I don't miss getting paid a third of what I do now. Not to mention the part where I have health insurance, long and short term disability, and three weeks worth of PTO that I can actually take when I'm sick or have something important crop up.
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Oct 7, 2014 15:34
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