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I'd really love to see a lot of political things added, though I'm worried it would lead to some sort of election mini-game which I wouldn't want. Mostly I'd like to try and traverse the pitfalls of building happiness. But honestly I'm more interested in getting a good city simulator first, not some bullshit resource management game. All that political stuff can come later. First-and-foremost though, I hope CO fixes something small: Traffic light placement. Virtually all city building games do it wrong, and I know it's just a tiny thing, but it really bothers me. They always put the lights facing the traffic on the same side as the traffic itself, when in real life the lights are on the opposite side of the intersection so you can actually see them. I already have my worries because it was done wrong in Cities in Motion 2. Surprisingly, SimCity 2013 actually got this right. Ugh. Like I said, I know its a little thing, but it does bug me.
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Oct 6, 2014 07:46
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ExtraNoise posted:They always put the lights facing the traffic on the same side as the traffic itself, when in real life the lights are on the opposite side of the intersection so you can actually see them. In my experience this is mostly a North American thing, traffic lights in Europe are on the side where the traffic stops, have you considered that the world doesn't end outside of the Americas and that other places may do things differently. A_Spec fucked around with this message at 10:06 on Oct 6, 2014 |
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Oct 6, 2014 09:54
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I don't know about Europe but here in London most intersections have lights on both the near and far side - but some have lights only on the near side so it's by no means a rule. It's only cosmetic though. I'm hoping the traffic simulation will be decent. Will I be able to create a gridlocked hell? I have a niggling suspicion that rush hour isn't simulated. I seem to recall from my limited experience with CiM that there was no daily cycle - people just up and went to work at random times throughout the day, so there was no meaningful rush hour.
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Oct 6, 2014 10:07
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A_Spec posted:In my experience this is mostly a North American thing, traffic lights in Europe are on the side where the traffic stops, have you considered that the world doesn't end outside of the Americas and that other places may do things differently. Exactly, here in France the lights are where you should stop, and there is a smaller light further down the pole and angled so you can see it. Like this:  I really, REALLY hope this game puts EA to shame with SC5. That was a horrible game and they need to be shamed for that for the rest of eternity.
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Oct 6, 2014 10:45
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A_Spec posted:In my experience this is mostly a North American thing, traffic lights in Europe are on the side where the traffic stops, have you considered that the world doesn't end outside of the Americas and that other places may do things differently. Jesus christ.
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Oct 6, 2014 14:55
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A_Spec posted:In my experience this is mostly a North American thing, traffic lights in Europe are on the side where the traffic stops, have you considered that the world doesn't end outside of the Americas and that other places may do things differently. Hahaha
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Oct 6, 2014 15:07
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ExtraNoise posted:I'd really love to see a lot of political things added, though I'm worried it would lead to some sort of election mini-game which I wouldn't want. Mostly I'd like to try and traverse the pitfalls of building happiness. But honestly I'm more interested in getting a good city simulator first, not some bullshit resource management game. All that political stuff can come later. I think elections could be a cool feedback system for measuring how well you're doing, but I wouldn't want it to be tied to a "game over" screen if an election is lost. I think what would be better is making the mayor just another sim. You as the player would play as if it were a god game, and the mayor is basically a scapegoat for your poor decisions.
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Oct 6, 2014 15:39
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Bullshit. Traffc lights in european cities are mainly the same way as in the US. Only thing different is that american ones hang from a wire and european ones are often on a horizontal beam. European lights also cycle to yellow before green.
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Oct 6, 2014 15:44
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Vahakyla posted:Bullshit. Traffc lights in european cities are mainly the same way as in the US. Only thing different is that american ones hang from a wire and european ones are often on a horizontal beam. This is how the traffic lights are in Spain from my experience (where I was born). But apparently I have my head so far up my American-rear end that I have no idea how the world operates.
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Oct 6, 2014 15:46
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Vahakyla posted:Bullshit. Traffc lights in european cities are mainly the same way as in the US. Only thing different is that american ones hang from a wire and european ones are often on a horizontal beam. Wire hung lights are on the decline in the US. I'd say the vast majority of lights these days are on a beam. The ones that remain are going to be in older areas that just never got upgraded. So I guess literally no one in this thread knows anything about traffic signal conventions around the world. 
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Oct 6, 2014 15:56
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If you don't have lights on both sides of the intersection (and the smaller light below for extra clarity) for every direction you're not a real intersection. 
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Oct 6, 2014 16:01
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I decided to google street view some European capitals but I couldn't find any beam or hung traffic lights, and then after a couple of minutes I realised I didn't give a poo poo, because, well, really? We're only page 2 and we're angry about cities already?xzzy posted:I think elections could be a cool feedback system for measuring how well you're doing, but I wouldn't want it to be tied to a "game over" screen if an election is lost. I like this. City-builders are open-ended so you could have election victories feed into a score. Maybe the score keeps track of campaign promises kept and broken, too (so if you gently caress up and lose an election, oops! Now you have to keep the promises your opponent made lest you lose the next one too) But I'd also like to see an election mechanic tie in with a lobbying system. So perhaps to get a winning vote share you need to spend campaign funds (unless you've managed the city spectacularly well), and these funds come from various lobbying groups you have to keep happy. They make requests from time to time and you have to pick and choose which ones to accept, weighing their campaign donations (and thus vote-boosting potential) against the negative effects of whatever poo poo ideas they spat in your in-tray. Simcity 3K had lobbying groups but it was mostly just for direct city cash infusions if I remember correctly. Tropico had some nice ideas in the election/lobbying department but obviously it fits a certain theme that doesn't translate well to a regular city builder.
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Oct 6, 2014 16:34
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One way of building an election system into a city builder might be to have a bunch of automatically simulated political parties, each running on different political platforms. Looking at polls for the parties would be a way to gauge city needs, and the current ruling party losing an election might be a sign of poor performance, or at least a need to change direction. The current ruling party might also induce some sort of bonus/penalty to various things.
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Oct 6, 2014 17:08
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Does anyone else think this looks like a blatant rip-off of SC13, graphically/stylistically? Granted I haven't seen or played SC13 since the beta but that's the first thing I thought when seeing the trailer. Even the road placing sound effect is basically identical I think? Kind of off putting.
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Oct 6, 2014 17:15
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Does it matter? The look/feel of SC13 was about the only thing the game did right so it makes sense to emulate. The important bits to keep distinctive is the underlying simulation.
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Oct 6, 2014 17:18
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Zoobtro posted:Does anyone else think this looks like a blatant rip-off of SC13, graphically/stylistically? Granted I haven't seen or played SC13 since the beta but that's the first thing I thought when seeing the trailer. Even the road placing sound effect is basically identical I think? I guess it's a lot "in your face" but it doesn't exactly give good associations.
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Oct 6, 2014 17:18
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It reminds me a lot more of Cities XL at the moment, just with a more modern interface. Everything is just copied off whatever feels cool and modern at the time.
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Oct 6, 2014 17:24
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Zoobtro posted:Does anyone else think this looks like a blatant rip-off of SC13, graphically/stylistically? Granted I haven't seen or played SC13 since the beta but that's the first thing I thought when seeing the trailer. Even the road placing sound effect is basically identical I think?
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Oct 7, 2014 10:01
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I'm really not digging this leveling and zoning system they have. It seems like if you want to keep an area a certain scale you'll have to just deny them services so they can't upgrade.
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Oct 7, 2014 16:25
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KKKlean Energy posted:Tropico had some nice ideas in the election/lobbying department but obviously it fits a certain theme that doesn't translate well to a regular city builder. I'd rather not have much in the way of politics as it would be too reminiscent of Tropico, and the advisers.
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Oct 7, 2014 23:09
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The zoning looks super disappointing. I was really hoping for mixed use zones with retail on the first floor and residences above.
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Oct 8, 2014 03:36
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On the plus side assuming the game is reasonably moddable I doubt it will take long for those sorts of concepts to get modded in.
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Oct 8, 2014 04:17
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HappyHelmet posted:On the plus side assuming the game is reasonably moddable I doubt it will take long for those sorts of concepts to get modded in. I am tired of games having to be modded in order to fix built in issues.
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Oct 8, 2014 06:20
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If zones are only one type from their side, there is a good chance that the engine can only actually handle a single usage type for a single building, meaning you wouldn't be able to mod it.
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Oct 8, 2014 06:56
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I'm also not digging the fact that every building is basically 4x4. This means every office building, factory, and apartment will have similar cube-like massing. Factories are huge sprawling things, I'd love to see that ever represented in a city builder. Simcity 4 had some decently sized industrial buildings. I'd love to see upgradable "major industries" you can plop. Huge steel mill or factories that actually span multiple city blocks.
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Oct 8, 2014 07:00
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Once again some parts of simcity 2013 were right, such as the fairly vast factories.
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Oct 8, 2014 07:40
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ToastyPotato posted:I am tired of games having to be modded in order to fix built in issues. I think it's a bit unfair to describe the lack of mixed use zoning as an "issue" awaiting a "fix". It's just an unwanted simplification of the simulation, rather than a bug. There's nothing wrong with hoping that modding will help to enhance the simulation.
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Oct 8, 2014 08:23
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xzzy posted:I think elections could be a cool feedback system for measuring how well you're doing, but I wouldn't want it to be tied to a "game over" screen if an election is lost. I remember Simcity 2000 had opinion polls in the newspaper.
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Oct 8, 2014 08:35
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Baronjutter posted:I'm also not digging the fact that every building is basically 4x4. This means every office building, factory, and apartment will have similar cube-like massing. Factories are huge sprawling things, I'd love to see that ever represented in a city builder. Simcity 4 had some decently sized industrial buildings. I'd love to see upgradable "major industries" you can plop. Huge steel mill or factories that actually span multiple city blocks.  I'd also love to see buildings taking up a footprint bigger than the building itself, or related industries gaining benefits from being grouped near one another, or just buildings going back from the street the long way instead of each one being lain along the roadside end on end 
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Oct 8, 2014 09:02
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I really liked how SimCity 2013 did the building expansions, where you'd pick the additions and plop them along the edges of the building, however I'd like this to happen automatically. So a factory may start as just one big warehouse, but maybe it eventually buys out the little print shop next door and plops an expansion there, so you could have L-shaped plots (or U, M, etc.) as the factory naturally grew and consumed less-valuable neighbouring businesses.
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Oct 8, 2014 09:20
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That would be a great way to do it. Though my mind goes to when it inevitably glitches and you get a grey goo scenario where your entire city is consumed by a giant sock factory employing millions of people.
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Oct 8, 2014 14:15
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Whiz Palace posted:That would be a great way to do it. Though my mind goes to when it inevitably glitches and you get a grey goo scenario where your entire city is consumed by a giant sock factory employing millions of people. And then the board of directors starts strong arming the city governance and running team managers for council seats 
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Oct 8, 2014 14:18
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Ghetto SuperCzar posted:It would be cool to see a city builder take on issues like community health, utilizing ideas like the 20 minute neighborhood. It would also be neat, gameplay wise, to have things like a certain entity in an industry get large enough that they can start making demands out of you (like intel in Portland or Boeing in Seattle), just to spice up and add a little flavor/challenge to the gameplay. Just curious, what were those demands?
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Oct 8, 2014 14:38
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Simcity 4 almost had this expanding factory mechanism. If a single industrial building grew in a zone, more buildings of the same type could grow off of that building using the first building as a road connection. When I made huge industrial areas I made sure it only had a few tiles touching road, then a strip of unzoned or park. You'd not only be able to control what grows there (if the first building is dirty, all others will be dirty, if the first is high-tech, all others will be high-tech) but it also means you can have a vast amount of jobs all coming off one building, making it super nice to serve via transit. I think the game was trying to model vast multi-building industrial complexes.
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Oct 8, 2014 16:57
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lonter posted:Just curious, what were those demands? For Boeing it was more a demand on WA state, but it was "Give us 8 billion dollars in tax breaks or we'll move our factories" Boeing got its tax breaks and then proceeded to move tons of jobs out of state anyways.
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Oct 8, 2014 17:04
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Reason posted:For Boeing it was more a demand on WA state, but it was "Give us 8 billion dollars in tax breaks or we'll move our factories" Boeing got its tax breaks and then proceeded to move tons of jobs out of state anyways. 
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Oct 8, 2014 18:16
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I've read quite a few articles and studies on the whole idea of cities giving incentives, tax breaks, and special deals to entice industries or keep industries in their city and it never works or pays off. They usually come or go as they please, and need tax breaks and hand-outs so big the industry is a net drain on the city. And the moment any of those breaks go away, the industry moves on to the next victim desperate and stupid enough to play that game.
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Oct 8, 2014 19:55
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Same with sports arenas, they bilk the city out of a mountain of cash and never deliver on any of the promised benefits. I'd love to see a game address these types of problems, maybe not in this game or a SimCity because I want to have fun making perfect cities, but a game that forces people to see how big business impose their greed would be a neat comment on society.
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Oct 8, 2014 19:59
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Well color me cautiously optimistic about this. Haven't played a city game in any real sense since SC3000, but watching those videos in the OP really tickled the itch.
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Oct 12, 2014 04:10
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xzzy posted:Same with sports arenas, they bilk the city out of a mountain of cash and never deliver on any of the promised benefits. Tax benefit sweet heart deals and parking lots and whatever else could be a "realism" toggle option, seems like it would be easy enough to let people opt out of.
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Oct 12, 2014 12:30
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