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OK, own up. Which one of you did this to a £1.5m car?
Zephro fucked around with this message at 18:39 on Oct 8, 2014 |
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Oct 8, 2014 18:37
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A god amongst men.LemonDrizzle posted:e: That would ruffle less feathers, but all that does is discourage immigration third hand. I was mostly looking at it as a way to sneak in improved wages for somebody, and troll anti-immigration types at the same time.
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Oct 8, 2014 18:39
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Autonomous Monster posted:I'd put my money on corruption or just plain old incompetence here. Though, I guess with the profit sharing threshold it's just some sort of weird indirect tax now? The companies knew this. To make matters worse, nukes are extremely capital intensive - virtually the entire cost of a nuclear power plant is paid up front, and even the big power companies would have had to borrow money to build them. No-one can predict what the price of power is going to do over the next half century, and they were all worried about another BE scenario in which they couldn't sell power at a price high enough to pay back the interest costs on their loans. So they lobbied for - and got - a guaranteed minimum price from the government.
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Oct 8, 2014 18:43
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Do people know how anti-immigration sentiment is correlated with actual presence of immigrants? I have the suspicion that the correlation is negative - people tend to complain about immigrants in the abstract.
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Oct 8, 2014 19:02
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Looks like UKIP have wrapped up the Clacton by-election when the local internet troubadours are backing him https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SrUDftDkH3E
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Oct 8, 2014 19:08
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Fangz posted:Do people know how anti-immigration sentiment is correlated with actual presence of immigrants? I have the suspicion that the correlation is negative - people tend to complain about immigrants in the abstract. You're right in saying that there's a negative correlation; the constituencies that UKIP poll highest in are almost always coastal towns with majority a white British population. You can't blame them though - their understanding of immigrants comes almost entirely from the Daily Mail. Margaret Thatcher fucked around with this message at 19:24 on Oct 8, 2014 |
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Oct 8, 2014 19:10
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biglads posted:Looks like UKIP have wrapped up the Clacton by-election when the local internet troubadours are backing him Ahahaha... I guess this is all kinds of problematic when it comes to correct thought. trigger warnings: racism, gendered insults, repeated use of the word minge. however, I think it's all worth it for the final line.
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Oct 8, 2014 19:24
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Zephro posted:The companies knew this. To make matters worse, nukes are extremely capital intensive - virtually the entire cost of a nuclear power plant is paid up front, and even the big power companies would have had to borrow money to build them. No-one can predict what the price of power is going to do over the next half century, and they were all worried about another BE scenario in which they couldn't sell power at a price high enough to pay back the interest costs on their loans. So they lobbied for - and got - a guaranteed minimum price from the government. This seems like yet another good argument for nationalising our vital infrastructure, instead of throwing public money at private companies until they feel like borrowing some money to build things we need (or when they need bailing out later). I understand why the companies wanted to do this - they make money, guaranteed - but that doesn't explain why the government chose to bung sweeteners at large-scale investors instead of having the state borrow and invest directly. I mean, rhetorically speaking of course. Although I'd like to hear some reasoning on why it's worse to nationally borrow at low rates and pay off the plants through general taxation, instead of paying a higher cost for them through guaranteeing profits or higher energy prices (which are effectively a tax on the poor)
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Oct 8, 2014 19:25
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Margaret Thatcher posted:You're right in saying that there's a negative correlation; the constituencies that UKIP poll highest in are almost always coastal towns with majority a white British population. I can blame them for a lack of critical thought. The beginning and end of all humanities evils.
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Oct 8, 2014 19:29
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An interesting few pages, that's for sure. Female feminist here and I personally heartily encourage men to identify as feminists. Like, don't try and make it all about you and don't mansplain, but normally that isn't a worry for fellas enlightened enough to identify as such. But yeah, others disagree so be polite about it but realise they don't speak for the whole movement. On the crisps front, my adoration for kettle chips and houmous is one of the things that gets "Champagne socialist" shouted at me by fellow activists. I was informed that ketchup is the only truly acceptable proletarian condiment (blegh!). More seriously though, what is it about the left that there seems to be a constant "cred-checking" of how working class you are? I've variously been told I'm not allowed to be a socialist because my family owned a home, lived in a detached house, had a family business and because I went to uni.
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Oct 8, 2014 19:29
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Fangz posted:No, he's saying that immigrants spend money in the wider economy, which in turn creates jobs to satisfy demand for their services. That's why, say, countries with 300 million people, and countries with 10 million people all still roughly have the same unemployment rate. This is a key thing to bear in mind whenever the concept of rich arseholes being "job creators" comes up. As HorseLord points out, business owners will go for the cheapest option whenever possible and will only hire extra staff if they absolutely have to. Business owners are aiming to be job destroyers as much as they possibly can be. Look at any right wing or business press (but I repeat myself) discussion of "labour costs" (essentially wages) and they want to drive it down as much as possible. They only create new jobs when it is the only possible way for them to generate extra profit. Demand and demand alone creates jobs. edit: Coohoolin posted:I say this someone who lived with a stripper for two years and was introduced to the issues behind that career. lol ReV VAdAUL fucked around with this message at 19:36 on Oct 8, 2014 |
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Oct 8, 2014 19:30
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baka kaba posted:This seems like yet another good argument for nationalising our vital infrastructure, instead of throwing public money at private companies until they feel like borrowing some money to build things we need (or when they need bailing out later). I understand why the companies wanted to do this - they make money, guaranteed - but that doesn't explain why the government chose to bung sweeteners at large-scale investors instead of having the state borrow and invest directly. quote:I mean, rhetorically speaking of course. Although I'd like to hear some reasoning on why it's worse to nationally borrow at low rates and pay off the plants through general taxation, instead of paying a higher cost for them through guaranteeing profits or higher energy prices (which are effectively a tax on the poor) No reason the government couldn't learn from that experience, though. Maggie had big plans in the 1980s for a whole load of off-the-shelf PWRs, but, apart from Sizewell, that never came to fruition.
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Oct 8, 2014 19:33
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Acaila posted:On the crisps front, my adoration for kettle chips and houmous is one of the things that gets "Champagne socialist" shouted at me by fellow activists. I was informed that ketchup is the only truly acceptable proletarian condiment (blegh!). More seriously though, what is it about the left that there seems to be a constant "cred-checking" of how working class you are? I've variously been told I'm not allowed to be a socialist because my family owned a home, lived in a detached house, had a family business and because I went to uni. Time to pack it up and go home everyone. 
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Oct 8, 2014 19:34
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Acaila posted:An interesting few pages, that's for sure. You sound like someone I know. You're not based in Aberdeen, are you?
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Oct 8, 2014 19:37
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Personally, I think the problem in this and many other similar cases is the issue of responsibility. Specifically, a nationalised institution is the specific responsibility of one or more politicians. If things go well, they typically get no credit. If things however go badly, it is portrayed as a personal failing of the presiding politicians, resulting in career suicide. Further the public would demand rigorous independent monitoring of the project, making any crisis highly visible and public. In contrast, if the thing is done privately, there are a lot of heads to deflect the blame on to - indeed, the politicians can gain for appearing to act decisively to resolve the issue by punishing 'the people responsible'. The private company will also spend its own money to propagandise. Thus, politically, the decision is very clear.
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Oct 8, 2014 19:37
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Acaila posted:An interesting few pages, that's for sure. Lots of people think that being rich is the equivalent to stealing from the poor. I'd say there's a bit of truth in that. If you went to private school, you're denying kids of similar ability a place in university. If you own a home, you're probably at least in some part contributing to the housing bubble and therefore forcing up rents for working class families. A big part of socialism has always been class solidarity, i.e working class solidarity. The hostility toward middle class comrades is understandable.
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Oct 8, 2014 19:37
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When it comes to prolier than thou stuff the Left really should focus the critique outwards just as strongly against right wing people who belong to minorities and vulnerable groups. If Owen Jones is to be criticised for being a white man who isn't working class but who seeks to support the working class then Priti Patel should be criticised for actively promoting worsening conditions for the largely disenfranchised groups to which she belongs. Really though UKIP or attacking left wingers from a well off background draw from the same problem of attacking those who want to help or those weaker than you being a hell of a lot easier than attacking the powerful.
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Oct 8, 2014 19:43
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Acaila posted:On the crisps front, my adoration for kettle chips and houmous is one of the things that gets "Champagne socialist" shouted at me by fellow activists. I was informed that ketchup is the only truly acceptable proletarian condiment (blegh!). Hummus rules and is cheap as hell to make. And ketchup over brown sauce? Poseurs Zephro posted:No reason the government couldn't learn from that experience, though. Maggie had big plans in the 1980s for a whole load of off-the-shelf PWRs, but, apart from Sizewell, that never came to fruition. Yeah absolutely, so much has changed and there's no reason we couldn't have an organised approach to building and maintaining a modern energy infrastructure. Plus there's more chance of that with a national approach instead of letting private companies do their own thing. Is it actually that difficult to maintain the current plants? I mean because of the tweaks you're talking about, not because they're all past their end-of-life dates already. I can see it making things more complicated, but what actual issues does it cause? And how much of it is down to the plants being in private hands, requiring coordination with them? I'm just wondering if it would be that much of a big deal if the CEGB was still around and running as effectively as it used to
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Oct 8, 2014 19:45
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Coohoolin posted:You sound like someone I know. You're not based in Aberdeen, are you? 
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Oct 8, 2014 19:46
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Zephro posted:OK, own up. Which one of you did this to a £1.5m car? Hehehe, I'm a child.
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Oct 8, 2014 19:55
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Coohoolin posted:You sound like someone I know. You're not based in Aberdeen, are you? Nope, I'm in Edinburgh. Is there a sect of crisps and houmous folk up there too like?  Houmous really is phenomenal though. gently caress the haters, I'm being multicultural! Margaret Thatcher posted:Lots of people think that being rich is the equivalent to stealing from the poor. I'd say there's a bit of truth in that. Note that none of what I mentioned suggested actually being rich though. My hugely in debt family own a house because they got one before housing got ridiculous, when a newly-wed couple could get one in a rural area easily enough. Rather than private schooled, I was on bursaries at an ordinary comp (precursor to EMA). So what we actually have is the working class turning against themselves. It was really weird for me to go from being considered posh at school to never having felt so working class in my life at university.
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Oct 8, 2014 19:59
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Acaila posted:Nope, I'm in Edinburgh. Is there a sect of crisps and houmous folk up there too like? We had a society event last night and someone brought hummus and lentil crisps.
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Oct 8, 2014 20:05
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With regards to the nuclear power station deal could someone explain in idiot what the 'strike price' concept means in finance? I did look it up and am no wiser.
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Oct 8, 2014 20:22
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Zephro posted:OK, own up. Which one of you did this to a £1.5m car? It's... beautiful.
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Oct 8, 2014 20:27
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Seaside Loafer posted:With regards to the nuclear power station deal could someone explain in idiot what the 'strike price' concept means in finance? I did look it up and am no wiser. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-22772441
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Oct 8, 2014 20:36
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Zephro posted:OK, own up. Which one of you did this to a £1.5m car? no dickbutt, no hammer and sickle, 2/5
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Oct 8, 2014 20:37
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"No we won't provide a subsidy, but here's a thing that's exactly like a subsidy that we're calling something else in the hope you don't notice because at this point lying is just a loving reflex for us".
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Oct 8, 2014 20:42
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Oh. So its some bollocks that wouldnt even need to exist if the government just built them themselves without contracting it out?
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Oct 8, 2014 20:48
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Zephro posted:OK, own up. Which one of you did this to a £1.5m car? More importantly why not do it across multiple panels to increase the cost of replacement?
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Oct 8, 2014 20:50
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Aziz Ansari posted:If you look up feminist in the dictionary it just means someone who believes that men and women have equal rights . . . But . . . that word is so weirdly used in our culture now people think feminist means, like, some women is gonna start yellin’ at him. . . . https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sz7ZzQbSiGA
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Oct 8, 2014 21:15
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Wolfsbane posted:It doesn't prove anything of the sort. What it proves is that the Tories will take any excuse to bung a load of cash to their mates, which I'm not sure was ever in doubt. The...French? Isn't it EDF that will be running Hinckley? Edit: The BBC article linked above also says quote:For its part, the government has been unable to play different energy companies off against each other, as German power giants RWE and E.On have decided against building new plants in the UK. It has, therefore, been forced to negotiate with EDF. Prince John fucked around with this message at 22:26 on Oct 8, 2014 |
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Oct 8, 2014 22:24
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Emma Watson touches on this quite a bit. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gkjW9PZBRfk
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Oct 8, 2014 22:42
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So the Scottish government is forbidden by law to nationalise any industry for the next 10 years or something like that. What they've done then is contracted Scottish trains out to a company owned by the Dutch public, Abellio. Of course Labour are lashing out, despite the fact that they'd have done the exact same thing, but there's something really cool about this deal that isn't getting reported anywhere:quote:The contract contains commitments on 100 apprenticeships, training and staff development and, for the first time, trade union representation on the board of the company. The contract also sets out the franchisee’s extensive corporate social obligations to the community it serves. That is important, because a railway does more than provide a journey opportunity—it spreads and generates economic vitality and prosperity across communities. Source: http://www.scottish.parliament.uk/parliamentarybusiness/28862.aspx?r=9569&i=86816 EDIT: More on the deal from SNP MSP Marco Biagi (there's that pesky nationalism again, having an Italian MSP) quote:Transport Minister Keith Brown's new rail deal is superb. Free wi-fi, a £5 advance intercity fare, reduced fares for jobseekers, increased seat capacity, better cycling provisions, and guarantees of apprenticeships, and living wage for staff. It'll also bring Abellio UK's headquarters to Scotland. It is beyond the best deal that anyone could have expected. Coohoolin fucked around with this message at 22:55 on Oct 8, 2014 |
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Oct 8, 2014 22:50
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goddamnedtwisto posted:More importantly why not do it across multiple panels to increase the cost of replacement? Why bother doing it at all? Everyone who sees that car knows it's already meant to be a dick.
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Oct 8, 2014 22:52
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Seaside Loafer posted:Oh. So its some bollocks that wouldnt even need to exist if the government just built them themselves without contracting it out? Sort of. We no longer have the political inclination for nationalised construction (might spook the free market), we don't have the civil servants able to manage it, and arguably don't have the domestic engineering know how to design it. The procurement of new nuclear in the UK has been that rocky and beset with problems that only by offering double the market rate for the power have we been able to lure in a provider, and even then, only one. The strike price cuts both ways too, though. EdF are
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Oct 8, 2014 23:08
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Coohoolin posted:EDIT: More on the deal from SNP MSP Marco Biagi (there's that pesky nationalism again, having an Italian MSP) He was born in the Vale of Leven  We do have a French MSP though
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Oct 8, 2014 23:23
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twoot posted:He was born in the Vale of Leven Thought Biagi was the fellow who recited his oath in Italian? Christian Allard is boss though, met him a bunch of times during the Yes campaigning, we talked secretly about socialism in French (he's a socialist himself) and it was really cool.
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Oct 8, 2014 23:38
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Endjinneer posted:Sort of. We no longer have the political inclination for nationalised construction (might spook the free market), we don't have the civil servants able to manage it, and arguably don't have the domestic engineering know how to design it.
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Oct 9, 2014 00:00
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Seaside Loafer posted:Why/how would it spook the free market and why would a government project have to care anyway? He's saying that the current idolisation of free-market economics would politically prevent any sort of large-scale nationalized construction (I think)
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Oct 9, 2014 00:02
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Farecoal posted:He's saying that the current idolisation of free-market economics would politically prevent any sort of large-scale nationalized construction (I think)
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Oct 9, 2014 00:07
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