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Knifegrab posted:Hmmm so I wouldn't be a fool to just get a Hawell-E now instead of waiting? Do we have any idea when skylake is out? Might be a fool for getting haswell-e since the performance for gaming isn't justified.
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Oct 9, 2014 20:44
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r0ck0 posted:Might be a fool for getting haswell-e since the performance for gaming isn't justified. What do you mean? Its more power than I need? I do more than gaming by the way, I am a developer and I also do renderings in my spare time.
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Oct 9, 2014 20:46
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Knifegrab posted:What do you mean? Its more power than I need? I do more than gaming by the way, I am a developer and I also do renderings in my spare time. He is saying that current games are not multithreaded past 2 or 3 threads. A 6 or 8 core chip clocked at 3.4Ghz will not perform as well as a 4 core 4.0Ghz chip in most games. Personally, I expect this to change in the next couple years since the Xbone and PS4 are both 8 core systems. Console to PC ports will probably start having higher thread counts. But, by the time that matters at all, you could probably upgrade again anyways. Probably be better building a nice devil's canyon based system now and upgrading to a Skylake-E or what ever 2 years for now. Your rendering would probably make good use of the extra cores, though.
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Oct 9, 2014 20:52
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Lowen SoDium posted:He is saying that current games are not multithreaded past 2 or 3 threads. A 6 or 8 core chip clocked at 3.4Ghz will not perform as well as a 4 core 4.0Ghz chip in most games. The consoles might have more cores but they don't do any good. Might help the PCs more by making them more optimized for multiple cores. http://www.shacknews.com/article/86585/assassins-creed-unity-will-not-reach-1080p60fps-on-consoles quote:"Technically we're CPU-bound," he said. "The GPUs are really powerful, obviously the graphics look pretty good, but it's the CPU [that] has to process the AI, the number of NPCs we have on screen, all these systems running in parallel We were quickly bottlenecked by that and it was a bit frustrating, because we thought that this was going to be a tenfold improvement over everything AI-wise, and we realized it was going to be pretty hard.
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Oct 9, 2014 21:03
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Lowen SoDium posted:He is saying that current games are not multithreaded past 2 or 3 threads. A 6 or 8 core chip clocked at 3.4Ghz will not perform as well as a 4 core 4.0Ghz chip in most games. So what is the best 4 core chip intel is offering currently?
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Oct 9, 2014 21:07
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Knifegrab posted:So what is the best 4 core chip intel is offering currently? i7-4790k
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Oct 9, 2014 21:09
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Bestest-y-estest is the Core i7-4790K, but only because of high stock clocks and hyperthreading. If you overclocked and didn't need hyperthreading, a lightly juiced i5-4690K would be as good 99.9% of the time (the 0.1% being the difference in L3 cache and mostly restricted to financial or scientific apps). Rendering will see a healthy boost from hyperthreading, though.
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Oct 9, 2014 21:10
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Knifegrab posted:Hmmm so I wouldn't be a fool to just get a Hawell-E now instead of waiting? Do we have any idea when skylake is out? Broadwell was delayed by over a year, so I sincerely sincerely doubt that Skylake is going to release 4-6 months after Broadwell-K hits the market. Cannonlake arriving ever is questionable given the struggles Intel is having with the node. The wise man who needs to upgrade will buy a Broadwell chip next year and ride LGA1150 into the sunset, while waiting for DDR4 prices to drop considerably. Overclock a $60 Pentium anniversary chip in the interim if you don't need the multicore performance immediately but want the side benefits of Z97 now. This won't have the longevity that a Nahalem / Sandy Bridge system did, because things are going to get really weird in hardware within five years, but it's the safest bet at the moment.
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Oct 9, 2014 21:13
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Lowen SoDium posted:Personally, I expect this to change in the next couple years since the Xbone and PS4 are both 8 core systems. Console to PC ports will probably start having higher thread counts. Eh. Mainstream i7 already has eight threads thanks to hyperthreading, and the console cores are AMD's Jaguar. Jaguar is more or less AMD's Atom competitor, and while Jaguar's good at that it's not in the same league as an i7 core, or even half of an i7 core which is using hyperthreading. So you're going to see a performance advantage without even needing to resort to the bigger expensive hex-core EP series i7s. That's assuming game developers find good ways to make use of eight Jaguar cores. It's definitely one of those easier said than done things. Also, I seem to remember that Microsoft reserves three cores exclusively for the OS; the system's resources are partitioned by virtualization so that the console's background services can always be running without impacting foreground gameplay.
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Oct 9, 2014 21:23
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r0ck0 posted:The consoles might have more cores but they don't do any good. Might help the PCs more by making them more optimized for multiple cores. The console CPUs currently are not being utilized as well as they could be. AMD's Jaguar is pretty low performance, so developers have little choice but to multi-thread as much of their workload as they can to get as much performance out of the consoles as they can. I think we can expect to see some of this work show up on PC ports eventually. I know I probably sound like I am saying "Just multithread your games, developers, shesh!" but I really do understand the complexities and non-linear performance gains that multithreading brings. But I really do think that some developers will come up with ways that use nearly all of the CPU resources available to them in order to make the prettiest or best performing games they can on the new consoles. It will probably be a while, though. And chances are equally good those games may never get a PC port. BobHoward posted:Eh. Mainstream i7 already has eight threads thanks to hyperthreading, and the console cores are AMD's Jaguar. Jaguar is more or less AMD's Atom competitor, and while Jaguar's good at that it's not in the same league as an i7 core, or even half of an i7 core which is using hyperthreading. So you're going to see a performance advantage without even needing to resort to the bigger expensive hex-core EP series i7s. I always forget about hyperthreading because it's performance gains are not very high. But you are probably right that Haswell cpus are so much faster in clock speed and in clock-for-clock performance compared to Jaguar, that a 5 or 6 thread application would probably still run faster on a 4 core Haswell chip. BobHoward posted:That's assuming game developers find good ways to make use of eight Jaguar cores. It's definitely one of those easier said than done things. Also, I seem to remember that Microsoft reserves three cores exclusively for the OS; the system's resources are partitioned by virtualization so that the console's background services can always be running without impacting foreground gameplay. Yeah, I have read that too, though I don't remember it being 3 cores. I was thinking it was 2.
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Oct 9, 2014 21:53
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IIRC both the XB1 and PS4 do reserve two cores.
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Oct 9, 2014 22:27
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Factory Factory posted:isoclock
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Oct 9, 2014 23:45
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I'm pretty sure I neologized it because I was sick of typing "at the same clock speed" and "at the same voltage" in the overclocking thread.
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Oct 9, 2014 23:48
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A reasonable set of terms could just be isochronous and isopotent / equipotent 
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Oct 10, 2014 03:35
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Equipotent sounds like the name of a boner drug.
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Oct 10, 2014 04:08
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Intel CPU and Platform Discussion: Boner Pills Inside I don't see the issue, we all knew what he meant 
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Oct 10, 2014 04:21
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Any good resources on dealing with/optimizing for NUMA? Especially when moving data across PCIE devices?
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Oct 10, 2014 07:07
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Ninja Rope posted:Any good resources on dealing with/optimizing for NUMA? Especially when moving data across PCIE devices? I don't have any but here is my non-helpful first-order approximation of what you're going to find: Avoid moving data.
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Oct 10, 2014 08:07
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Is it worth upgrading off an i7-2600k yet? I'm occasionally CPU-limited in Planetside 2 and do some video encoding, but I haven't been able to tell what the performance improvements are for that of the current gen vs mine.
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Oct 10, 2014 14:05
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Aleksei Vasiliev posted:Is it worth upgrading off an i7-2600k yet? I'm occasionally CPU-limited in Planetside 2 and do some video encoding, but I haven't been able to tell what the performance improvements are for that of the current gen vs mine. Are you overclocking? If you're not overclocking, I'd spend $40-50 on a good cooler and then you'll be up to par with latest generation chips.
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Oct 10, 2014 14:44
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Going from the Nahalem era BIOS (looks like 1990) to an x79 MSI one is  .It highlights what ports you are using on the mobo! Mouse Control! Drag and drop functions! 
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Oct 10, 2014 15:55
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Twerk from Home posted:Are you overclocking? If you're not overclocking, I'd spend $40-50 on a good cooler and then you'll be up to par with latest generation chips. Just to add to this: I have a 2600k with a Corsair hydro kit cooling it. Without even *touching* voltage options and just using the chipset manufacturer's Windows utility, I have it boosting to 4.2Ghz with zero other configuration. I could probably get it even higher with this cooler and playing with voltage. It's still a strong chip.
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Oct 11, 2014 07:53
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Lowen SoDium posted:The console CPUs currently are not being utilized as well as they could be. AMD's Jaguar is pretty low performance, so developers have little choice but to multi-thread as much of their workload as they can to get as much performance out of the consoles as they can. I think we can expect to see some of this work show up on PC ports eventually. The choice in CPU seems like an odd one. Say you were building a PC. Is there any particular task you'd choose that particular CPU for?
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Oct 13, 2014 01:16
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Deuce posted:The choice in CPU seems like an odd one. It's an AMD chip, ergo, nope. Nothing at all. They probably bought it because it came along with the GPU.
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Oct 13, 2014 03:06
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Hypothetically you'd use such a CPU for a low-impact virtualization server (think a place selling personal web server VMs) or a larger NAS/entry SAN. Which is exactly where 8-core Avoton SoCs (Silvermont Atom cores) are used, e.g. the ASRock C2750D4I, a mini-ITX server board with 12 SATA ports and 4 DIMM slots supporting up to 64 GB of ECC DDR3 (plus a PCIe x8 slot for good measure). Actually, Jaguars and Atoms are so wimpy compared to Haswell that even a Haswell Core i3 can do all the work that the 8 cores in the Xbox One and PS4 can, and then some. There may be some where the 8 real cores edge out 2 buff hyperthreaded cores, but I'd guess that'd probably be an edge case.
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Oct 13, 2014 07:36
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Lowen SoDium posted:Personally, I expect this to change in the next couple years since the Xbone and PS4 are both 8 core systems. Nah, you clearly don't realise how poo poo the CPU is in Xbox One and PS4. Netbook-class cores at 1.6GHz or so. Several of them are no match for a high clocked Haswell core.
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Oct 13, 2014 09:19
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HalloKitty posted:Nah, you clearly don't realise how poo poo the CPU is in Xbox One and PS4. Netbook-class cores at 1.6GHz or so. Several of them are no match for a high clocked Haswell core. This just makes me think about how impressive a 12 mHz 68000 in the Neo Geo sounded at one time 
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Oct 13, 2014 10:32
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Panty Saluter posted:This just makes me think about how impressive a 12 mHz 68000 in the Neo Geo sounded at one time Oh but it was, and mighty expensive. These new consoles aren't anywhere near as ambitious, but that's a consequence of these things being "good enough". Back then, every few years, the advances seemed huge. Now plenty of people shrug when they see the difference between a PS3 and PS4 version of a game. I'll just quietly blame the demise of arcades. HalloKitty fucked around with this message at 11:06 on Oct 13, 2014 |
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Oct 13, 2014 11:02
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So I am shopping for a new gaming rig based around a GTX980 and I was stupid enough to consider a 5930K over a 4790K, after reading this thread I am leaning towards a 4790K now. I am mostly wondering how power consumption and heat generation of the two compare when overclocked, is there gonna be much difference? Is one of the two easier to OC while keeping it quiet? Does anyone have any personal reviews/an opinion on the Corsair Hydro Series coolers? (might be outside the scope of this thread, sorry if it is)
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Oct 13, 2014 13:05
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HalloKitty posted:Nah, you clearly don't realise how poo poo the CPU is in Xbox One and PS4. Netbook-class cores at 1.6GHz or so. Several of them are no match for a high clocked Haswell core. For the record, I understand very well what the Jaguar CPU is like. I am not saying that PC games will be 6+ threaded to keep up with the consoles. I am saying that the console games will have to be 6+ threaded to get any performance out of the low power CPU they have to work with. Those games will eventually get ported to PC and could likely still be 6+ threaded. When that happens, you might see some PC games that can get some performance increase out of a Haswell-E CPU. But until then, the normal Haswell chips are a better by for PC game. And they probably will continue to be even after that point. Lowen SoDium fucked around with this message at 13:18 on Oct 13, 2014 |
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Oct 13, 2014 13:16
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Tahirovic posted:So I am shopping for a new gaming rig based around a GTX980 and I was stupid enough to consider a 5930K over a 4790K, after reading this thread I am leaning towards a 4790K now. I am mostly wondering how power consumption and heat generation of the two compare when overclocked, is there gonna be much difference? Is one of the two easier to OC while keeping it quiet? low end hydro coolers are noisier than good air coolers, but don't perform as well/barely hold their own. They are useful only in a super cramped case where air cooling isn't possible. High end Hydro coolers - 240mm+ radiator size - outperform the best air coolers, but at a substantial cost in noise. A good air cooler is the way to go.
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Oct 13, 2014 13:35
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Panty Saluter posted:This just makes me think about how impressive a 12 mHz 68000 in the Neo Geo sounded at one time Apple was selling a LOT of Mac Classics and SE's around that time with an 8MHz 68000 processor in it. The Mac Classic was the first Mac to sell for under $1000 too. This is literally like having a Sandy Bridge in the PS4/BONE now as the 68030's had just come out and the '020 was not as widely spread.
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Oct 13, 2014 13:54
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Tahirovic posted:So I am shopping for a new gaming rig based around a GTX980 and I was stupid enough to consider a 5930K over a 4790K, after reading this thread I am leaning towards a 4790K now. I am mostly wondering how power consumption and heat generation of the two compare when overclocked, is there gonna be much difference? Is one of the two easier to OC while keeping it quiet? Heat will be higher on the 5930K, way higher. You can easily add 60% to 100% power draw, vs. ~50% on a 4790K. We're talking up-to-300W on the 5930K you need to dissipate (24/7-safe will be more like 250W though), vs. 150W on a 4790K pushed just as hard. So you need to get rid of a SHITLOAD of heat. That's not happening quietly without some really expensive gear, like the all-copper radiator on the Cooler Master Glacer 240L CLC. Side note: Is the 5930K really the right choice here? The 5820K is all the CPU, just with 28 PCIe lanes instead of 40. 28 PCIe lanes is plenty for two-way SLI and an upcoming hot-poo poo m.2 drive. As for Corsair Hydro coolers... They're Asetek OEM. Copper water block, aluminum radiator. Good kit, though really similar kit to any other Asetek CLC like NZXT Krakens or a number of other brands. But the fans are often just... okay. Corsair really wants you to feel like you get good results buying and installing I would be really hesitant to get anything smaller than an H110 or Kraken X60 for a Haswell-E overclock.
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Oct 13, 2014 19:38
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DDR4 prices on V3 Xeons holy poo poo. I may have to stick with V2 chips. Anyone know the clock for clock performance differences between V2 and V3 E5-26xx chips (assuming same clock/cores)?
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Oct 13, 2014 20:38
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AnandTech's benchmarks said 1% to 19%, 8.3% average, over Ivy Bridge at the same clocks, though that didn't control for differences in thermal performance.
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Oct 13, 2014 20:51
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The Lord Bude posted:low end hydro coolers are noisier than good air coolers, but don't perform as well/barely hold their own. They are useful only in a super cramped case where air cooling isn't possible. High end Hydro coolers - 240mm+ radiator size - outperform the best air coolers, but at a substantial cost in noise. A good air cooler is the way to go. I use an h100i with a third party, high static-pressure set of fans and I can't hear it at all in my case. This is on an overclocked 4790k.
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Oct 13, 2014 23:58
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Factory Factory posted:Heat will be higher on the 5930K, way higher. You can easily add 60% to 100% power draw, vs. ~50% on a 4790K. We're talking up-to-300W on the 5930K you need to dissipate (24/7-safe will be more like 250W though), vs. 150W on a 4790K pushed just as hard. So you need to get rid of a SHITLOAD of heat. That's not happening quietly without some really expensive gear, like the all-copper radiator on the Cooler Master Glacer 240L CLC. Thank you and The Lord Bude for the nice answers. It feels horrible to be so clueless about hardware. I was willing to pay the 150$ extra for the 5930K over the 5820K (given the benchmarks from overclocker's or tom's I actually forgot) showed it being just ever so slightly better even with games. That was before anyhow. Your post about cooling/power consumption was kinda the last bit needed to get me away from Haswell-E, so I'll just try get a 4790K and OC that while trying to keep it quiet. Maybe I can invest the saved money into better/higher quality cooling solutions instead.
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Oct 14, 2014 10:29
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Tahirovic posted:Thank you and The Lord Bude for the nice answers. It feels horrible to be so clueless about hardware. You may already be covered here, but if you're not already hooked up in this regard and trying to spend more money, get a nice monitor or nice keyboard/mouse. Those are often overlooked but they are huge quality of life improvements.
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Oct 14, 2014 18:19
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Diviance posted:I use an h100i with a third party, high static-pressure set of fans and I can't hear it at all in my case. This is on an overclocked 4790k. I'm going to do this for my h100i. The included fans are annoying and the software is junk so I'm just going to use the included controller in my NZXT case.
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Oct 14, 2014 18:24
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Visidan posted:I'm going to do this for my h100i. The included fans are annoying and the software is junk so I'm just going to use the included controller in my NZXT case. I did the same, except I just plugged the fans into my motherboard. Used the mobo's built in fan controller, works much better than corsair's lovely software.
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Oct 14, 2014 18:27
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