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It should be noted too that Force Skills and Poison are really great ways to get something below 55% health to be iced by Climax. A lot of setup but to get a FOE dead and potentially unlock a sexy, sexy new item from it the time spent is totally worth it. And with this party you just Riot Gun and Dominate to ensure the enemy spends its first 45% of its health bar doing precisely fuckall.
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Oct 12, 2014 05:44
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After having played EOIV and its "Endgame bosses + some enemies/FOEs have a last 20% of health super move" seeing the exact opposite (Survive to 55% health, end fight!) thanks to the completely broken magic of Climax is really great!
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Oct 13, 2014 16:00
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Old Greg posted:After having played EOIV and its "Endgame bosses + some enemies/FOEs have a last 20% of health super move" seeing the exact opposite (Survive to 55% health, end fight!) thanks to the completely broken magic of Climax is really great! It should be noted that I think only one of the actual stratum bosses is vulnerable to instant death.
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Oct 13, 2014 16:03
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If you think Dark Hunters are broken, Hexers are even worse. It's amazing just how many aspects of the game that class can utterly destroy. EOII was not a well balanced game. In fact I'm going to restrict Hexer chat in this thread to what we see in this LP or I personally mention. Or if the LP gets abandoned (hopefully it never comes to that) because the brokenness must be seen to be believed. For those of you that watched the video (The broken link that was there a few minutes after the update was posted was fixed), what do you think of the video quality? Could it be something you could watch for 5 to 10 minutes? (for boss battles) It's better than the first one I posted, although I still need to work on a few things, like the audio levels. I'm a few updates in and already I want to redo several things about my first few updates. As for the next update. I have no idea when I'm putting it up. Let's just say I need to take a break from EOII for a little while. Seeing nothing but death while you're trying to make it through the 4th floor (Which has NO SHORTCUTS) thanks to an Evil Eye getting an unlucky tackle in gets a bit tiring. Whoever came up with guaranteed blindsides, let me just say that you suck. So much. Running out of Nectars and being forced to Warp Wire back to town when someone dies and I'm nowhere near the stairs is getting old fast. And dragging a corpse around for an extended period of time is just asking for a game over. I'm almost tempted to post an update that's nothing but a death montage.
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Oct 13, 2014 17:35
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Dr. Fetus posted:If you think Dark Hunters are broken, Hexers are even worse. It's amazing just how many aspects of the game that class can utterly destroy. EOII was not a well balanced game. In fact I'm going to restrict Hexer chat in this thread to what we see in this LP or I personally mention. Or if the LP gets abandoned (hopefully it never comes to that) because the brokenness must be seen to be believed. As long you don't full screen them, it looks fine. I could totally watch longer videos.
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Oct 13, 2014 20:31
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Dr. Fetus posted:If you think Dark Hunters are broken, Hexers are even worse. It's amazing just how many aspects of the game that class can utterly destroy. EOII was not a well balanced game. In fact I'm going to restrict Hexer chat in this thread to what we see in this LP or I personally mention. Or if the LP gets abandoned (hopefully it never comes to that) because the brokenness must be seen to be believed. Yeah, I may be hilariously dense sometimes when playing a game, but even I noticed poison wasn't the only thing a Hexer could use to utterly humiliate the monsters in the labyrinth. But we'll all see what this means when we finally get to that point. By the way, I'm using an Alchemist in my own end-game setup and it works as long as you're careful. I raised my main spell family to 8 and that's it. The support-skills can be raised to max without trouble, the normal skills however raise the consumption rate far too high. Even with 8, I'm sometimes regret upgrading from 7. The skills with a maximum of 5 should never be higher then 3, either. But as long as you're able to dance along this small edge, an Alchemist isn't bad. Well, I say this of course because my entire party is build around an Alchemist, so I get maximum usage from her skills. 
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Oct 13, 2014 20:57
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Libluini posted:Yeah, I may be hilariously dense sometimes when playing a game, but even I noticed poison wasn't the only thing a Hexer could use to utterly humiliate the monsters in the labyrinth. But we'll all see what this means when we finally get to that point. Level 10 TP Up is pretty much required for Alchemists. Not only are levels in it needed to unlock their better skills, but despite having the biggest TP pool out of all the classes, they'll burn through it fast with how costly their spells get. You can get away with leaving a few points in their spells earlier on in the game, but once you reach the postgame, leaving their spells below max level will really have them struggling harder than ever to remain relevant. They pretty much have the same problem as they did in the first game, with them being a TP black hole added to that. Good until the 4th stratum, okay in the 5th stratum, and postgame you're better off using something else. That's my experience with them at least. They are strong in the earlygame and Eschaton can get you through some nasty encounters. If you don't care about the postgame, and if you're new to the series, I really suggest you don't unless you have a lot of time to spare, yeah they're good. You just need to know how to manage your TP well with them. Araxxor fucked around with this message at 03:29 on Oct 14, 2014 |
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Oct 14, 2014 02:53
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Dang, that instakill just seems so broken.
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Oct 15, 2014 07:36
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Class Discussion - Protector The rest of the portraits. The EO1 class portraits. These are probably one of the nerfed classes that didn't get completely destroyed in the transition to EO2. Known as Paladins in Japan, Protectors are the tanks of the game. They bring a lot of defensive options to the party and can support the party with some other skills. They are front line fighters that can increase your party's defenses and take damage in another party member's place. In EO1, they were just kind of there. While they were decent enough damage dealers, their defensive and tanking capabilities were really limited, and they only had a few defensive skills that were worth using. And three of them weren't relevant until the postgame. Defender was their best skill and increased defense against physical attacks by 40% at max level, although people kept it at level 5 since the defense bonus was 35% there. Which is much better than it sounds due to how EO1 handled damage reduction. Defender is gone in EO2, but the rest of their defensive kit got buffed a bit. But there were a few problems that came up in this game. For one thing, defensive skills in EO1 (except for the Troubadour's Shelter) worked by subtracting defense from the damage taken instead of dividing. Meaning that a 60% reduction in damage made a 200 damage attack deal single digit damage. Which is why stuff like the Medic's Immunize skill was so broken. This was fixed in EO2. 60% means 60%, so a 200 damage attack would deal around 80 damage. The other problem is the type of party EO2 supports. While EO1 supported defensive parties, EO2 is the opposite. It really supports offensive oriented parties. The other nerf they ate is that they kind of got reworked into an RNG class. Their defensive skills are a bit unreliable. They're guaranteed to work the first time they defend against something, but defending against anymore hits is up to the RNG. Not only that, but their offensive capabilities are not as good in the first game. Their usefulness in the main game is very questionable, but it can help for the earlygame since you may want some beef on the front lines so people won't die as often. For the people that want to tackle the postgame, you pretty much need this class. Although they were mandatory to use in the first game's postgame, it's not the case here. It's just that having one just really helps. Stats Level 1 HP - 48 TP - 22 STR - 5 TEC - 5 VIT - 8 AGI - 4 LUC - 5 Level 70 HP - 537 TP - 158 STR - 48 TEC - 30 VIT - 70 AGI - 29 LUC - 52 Level 99 HP - 771 TP - 328 STR - 65 TEC - 47 VIT - 93 AGI - 48 LUC - 70 Protectors are very tanky, but also very slow. However, speed isn't an issue for them since most of their defensive skills will always go first in battle. HP and TP are always good choices to level up on any class. Strength can be a valid choice since they do have a strong damage skill. Vitality can be another good choice if you want your Protector to be even tankier, but if you're leveling one up to 99, don't bother with that stat unless you want the skill it unlocks. Agility isn't really needed since most of their skills will always go first. Shields Max lvl: 10 A mastery skill. In the first game this passive only blocked physical damage, but in this game it blocks all damage, including elementals. It reduces damage by 1% at level 1 and 10% at level 10. So at max level, a Protector essentially has an extra 10% HP against most forms of damage, which can be nice for a defensive class like this. Aegis Needs lvl. 5 HP Regen and Riskwall Max lvl: 10 If the Protector dies, this passive gives them a chance to revive. It only works once per battle. Each level gives an additional 1% chance. At level 1 it has a 20% chance of activating. Level 5 gives a 24% chance, and level 10 gives a 29% chance. Not something I would bother taking since it involves a huge investment in a useless skill, but if you really want this skill, 1 point in it can be enough. A little  from GeneralYeti.GeneralYeti posted:
En Garde Needs lvl. 5 Shields Max lvl: 10 This is a passive skill that gives the Protector a chance to halve damage from enemy attacks. The chance for this skill to activate is the same as Aegis' scaling. Pretty much one of their better passives, and you might want to max this out eventually. HP Regen Needs lvl. 1 HP Up Max lvl: 5 This passive restores the Protector's HP for each turn that passes. 3 HP at level 1 and 7 HP at level 5. It's a better version of a War Magi's Reganall, which stacks, making them even more survivable, and adds to a Protector's survivability in the earlygame. It's useless past that. Unfortunately this is a perquisite to Aegis, and if you want that skill, you essentially have to waste 5 skill points. Riskwall Needs lvl. 1 HP Up Max lvl: 5 This is a passive that increases the Protector's defense against all types of damage the lower their HP gets. It's a really good passive, and even if the Protector has full HP, this skill still gives a nice defensive boost. There are 5 different ranges of HP that it considers for this skill. 100% to 76%. 75%-51%, 50%-26%, 25%-11%, and 10% to 0%. At level 1 it reduces damage by 2%/4%/6%/8%/10%, and by level 5, it reduces damage by 8%/12%/18%/22%/28%. A max level Riskwall added to a maxed out Shields will give the Protector a minimum 18% defense to most attacks. Which is pretty useful. Smite Needs lvl. 10 Shields Max lvl: 5 This is the Protector's only and best damage skill. It's a single target bash attack that has a chance to bind an enemy's arms. 1 - 10 TP - 300% damage, 20% chance of arm bind 2 - 12 TP - 310% damage, 21% chance 3 - 14 TP - 330% damage, 23% chance 4 - 16 TP - 360% damage, 26% chance 5 - 18 TP - 400% damage, 30% chance Even if you don't want to max out this skill, one point in it still gives you a lot. The arm bind chance is terrible no matter how many points you put into it, but that's not the main reason to take the skill. It gives the Protector something meaningful to do if they don't need to be defending the team for the turn. It's not as strong as it was in the first game thanks to Lagaard's Protectors having lower strength. F. Guard/B. Guard (Front Guard/Back Guard) Needs lvl. 1 Shields Max lvl: 10 Now we get into the active defense skills. These skills reduce physical damage to the front or back row depending on which skill was used. It has no effect on magical attacks. The way all of the Protector's guard skills work, is that the Protector uses it at the start of a turn, and it stays active until the turn ends, or the Protector dies. Now these skills will always activate for the first time the proper conditions are met, but each proc reduces the chance of the skill activating again. For example, if this skill were to activate, but had a 50% chance reduction, it would have a 50% chance of working again in the same turn. If it didn't activate from an attack, it still has a 50% chance of working on the next attack, after which the chance would drop to 0% and would no longer activate. Anyways, the scaling for these two skills are as follows. 1 - 2 TP - Damage reduced by 15%, chance to activate again reduced by 100% 2 - 3 TP - 16% reduction, -91% chance 3 - 4 TP - 18% reduction, -82% chance 4 - 5 TP - 21% reduction, -73% chance 5 - 6 TP - 25% reduction, -64% chance 6 - 7 TP - 30% reduction, -55% chance 7 - 8 TP - 36% reduction, -46% chance 8 - 9 TP - 43% reduction, -37% chance 9 - 10 TP - 51% reduction, -28% chance 10 - 11 TP - 60% reduction, -10% chance Front Guard is a really good skill. Most attacks will head the front row's way and reducing damage by 60% is really good and the skill is really reliable at higher levels. Back Guard on the other hand you can skip, since enemies don't target the back row that often. Not to mention that party members already take less damage when they're in the back row, so that skill is kind of redundant. In the first game these two skills were terrible. They only activated once, and that was it. They got a huge buff in this game. Needs lvl. 5 F. Guard and B. Guard Max lvl: 5 Defender is gone and got replaced with this skill. This skill is Front Guard and Back Guard combined. It reduces physical damage dealt to the whole party for a turn. 1 - 6 TP - Damage reduced by 13%, chance to activate again reduced by 100% 2 - 8 TP - 16% reduction, -86% chance 3 - 10 TP - 23% reduction, -68% chance 4 - 12 TP - 34% reduction, -50% chance 5 - 14 TP - 45% reduction, -32% chance It is not that good. At max level it can only proc 4 times, and can't protect a 5 man party from a physical AOE, which is when you would want to use this skill. The damage reduction isn't that good either. All Guard is a pretty bad skill, just stick with Front Guard. 1 Guard Needs lvl. 7 Shields Max lvl: 5 With this skill, a Protector can select one party member to take reduced damage from physical skills for a turn. 1 - 2 TP - Damage reduced by 35%, chance to activate again reduced by 50% 2 - 4 TP - 40% reduction, -40% chance 3 - 6 TP - 45% reduction, -30% chance 4 - 8 TP - 55% reduction, -20% chance 5 - 10 TP - 65% reduction, -10% chance Keep in mind you need 12 skill points to max this out, as opposed to Front Guard's 11. And you can only choose one target to have increased defense for the turn when the damage reduction is only slightly better than Front Guard's. Ignore this skill. Antifire/Anticold/Antivolt Needs lvl. 3 Shields Max lvl: 10 These skills provide some defense to the listed elemental for one turn. Lower levels provide resistance to the elemental, while higher levels nullify and absorb it. This skill got simultaneously nerfed and buffed. In the first game it always worked at every level, and the skill nullified the element at level 5. Higher levels just absorbed the element and healed the party. But some elemental attacks had status effects attached to them such as instant death. The nullification canceled out the status effect as well as the attack, but a bug made it so that absorbing the skill did not nullify the status effect. Meaning that a party member could get healed up from a powerful attack, only to get instantly killed by it. The skills had to be left at level 5 in the first game, but that is not the case in this game. It's safe to max out the skill, and actually recommended to do so. 1 - 2 TP - Damage reduced by 50%, chance to activate again reduced by 100% 2 - 3 TP - 45% reduction, -90% chance 3 - 4 TP - 39% reduction, -80% chance 4 - 5 TP - 32% reduction, -70% chance 5 - 6 TP - 24% reduction, -60% chance 6 - 7 TP - 15% reduction, -40% chance 7 - 8 TP - 5% reduction, -30% chance 8 - 9 TP - Damage is nullified, -20% chance 9 - 10 TP - Absorbs 25% of the damage taken, -10% chance 10 - 11 TP - Absorbs 50% of the damage taken. Will always work. These skills aren't that great in the main game, because not that many enemies actually use elemental attacks that you want to defend against. But they're absolutely essential in the postgame. Without these skills, it's nearly impossible to take down some postgame bosses that have incredibly powerful elemental AOEs. Now a level 8 Anti skill can potentially protect the whole party against an AOE, but it's better to max it out so it's completely reliable. Antiall Needs lvl. 10 Shields, TEC Up Max lvl: 5 This one skill provides some defense against elemental attacks instead of just one. It's not that great, just look for yourself. 1 - 6 TP - Damage reduced by 50%, chance to activate again reduced by 100% 2 - 8 TP - 45% reduction, -82% chance 3 - 10 TP - 39% reduction, -64% chance 4 - 12 TP - 32% reduction, -46% chance 5 - 14 TP - Absorbs 10% of the damage taken, -28% chance This skill is a massive waste of skill points. It involves dumping 10 skill points into a not that great stat for the Protector, and it can only activate up to 4 times and can't save your whole team from an elemental AOE. It takes 25 skill points to max this out, where it takes 33 skill points to max out the other three Anti skills. While you are saving 8 skill points with this, it's for a really unreliable skill, where you could have 3 completely reliable skills to deal with the postgame bosses instead. Ignore this, it's a trap skill. Fortify Needs lvl. 1 VIT Up Max lvl: 5 This is a 5 turn buff that increases the Protector's physical defense. At level 1 it costs 3 TP and reduces damage by 10%. At level 5 it costs 7 TP and reduces damage by 36%. Could be handy since it's one of the few actual buff skills they have. But you might want to ignore this skill for the next one. Provoke Max lvl: 10 Another 5 turn buff. What it does is increase the Protector's defense and attempts to get single target attacks to target the Protector instead of the other party members. In the first game, it was bugged/designed terribly. After a certain point it increased the provoke chance by 100%, but what that meant is that the chance for the Protector to be targeted by an attack was twice as likely. Not the case in this game. A 100% provoke chance means that the Protector will always be targeted by single target attacks. At level 1 it costs 3 TP and gives the Protector a 20% chance to be targeted and provides no damage reduction. At level 5 it costs 7 TP and has a 70% provoke chance and reduces damage by 12%. The provoke chance reaches 100% at level 7 and costs 9 TP there, while reducing damage taken by 18%. All levels 8 to 10 do is reduce the TP cost, increase the speed modifier, and decreases the damage taken. So you can leave this skill at level 7 if you wanted. Level 10 Provoke costs 6 TP and reduces damage by 27%. Now this skill sounds good, right? No reason to skip it? Well, it doesn't work on multi-target attacks. In the earlygame this skill is good, especially combined with the next one. But later on enemies start using AOEs more and more, and Front Guard becomes the better skill to use lategame. Take it if you want, just know that it falls off eventually. However, it does have a very special use in the postgame, so don't rest and get rid of this skill if you're there already, and if you don't have this skill, take it just in case. Parry Needs lvl. 3 Provoke Max lvl: 5 This skill completely negates any physical damage the Protector takes for the turn. It starts off costing 3 TP and the chance reduction is 40%. At level 5 it costs 7 TP and only has a 5% chance reduction, meaning that it can work up to 20 times. That's a bit overkill, a Protector will not get hit that often in a battle. You can just leave one point in this skill for the most part. Refresh Needs lvl. 1 TEC Up Max lvl: 5 This is a single target skill that can restore status effects. Each level lets it restore more kinds of status effects. 1 - 1 TP - Removes Blind. 50% Speed. 2 - 2 TP - Removes Blind/Poison/Sleep 3 - 3 TP - Removes Blind/Poison/Sleep/Terror/Paralysis 4 - 4 TP - Removes Blind/Poison/Sleep/Terror/Paralysis/Curse/Confusion 5 - 1 TP - Same as level 4. 100% Speed. The 5th level just increases the speed modifier and reduces the TP cost. It can be a nice skill to take if your party has no other way to restore status effects, but if your party has a Medic or a Gunner in it, I wouldn't suggest leveling up this skill. This skill cannot cure Petrification. Flee Max lvl: 5 This skill gives a chance to escape from battle and warp to the previous floor's staircase. At level 1 it costs 5 TP, and gives a 60% chance to escape, while at level 5 it costs 1 TP and will always work. It will always go first, and if you get a preemptive strike, the chance is 100% no matter what the level. While having a whole party take Escape Up can make this skill seem redundant, it does have a special function. This can rescue you from being cornered by an FOE, only if you came from another floor before getting cornered by one. If you didn't, this skill won't work. Whether you take it is up to you. Gathering Skill: Mine Force Skill: Painless This skill makes your party completely invincible for one turn. Like all of their other defensive skills, it always goes first. The game says it protects against damage, but that's not all it does. It completely protects your party against status effects and binds as well (This includes instant death). This is one of the best Force Skills in the game, and a few postgame bosses have some strategies that revolve around using this skill. Protectors are a bit of a greedy class if you want to take their Anti skills for the postgame, but they're a good defensive and support class. They're not a bad class to put in a party for the main game, but the postgame is where they really shine. Not having one in there is practically suicide unless you like to heavily abuse force skills. Araxxor fucked around with this message at 03:14 on Oct 7, 2015 |
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Oct 16, 2014 02:53
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That face should be an avatar.
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Oct 16, 2014 04:19
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Hobgoblin2099 posted:That face should be an avatar. I can't tell if it's disdain or a thousand-yard stare. Given Atlus' dungeon design, probably both.
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Oct 16, 2014 04:47
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Its why I picked the portrait for Aigis. Its equal parts  and 
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Oct 16, 2014 07:47
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For what it's worth, the Aegis was supposedly some unknown thing carried by Athena and Zeus in Greek myth. It's been somewhat described as an animal skin or shield, but it's never been 100% confirmed what it is. If it is a shield, it's possible it has the head of the Gorgon mounted on there. Any goons that have read up on myths can probably tell you more. It's got several other versions of itself in different cultures, but the Greek version is probably what the skill is named after. In our current language, 'aegis' has been taken to be the protection provided by a strong force, usually benevolent.
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Oct 16, 2014 15:08
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GeneralYeti posted:
My general recollection was that Aegis was the shield given to Perseus to help him slay Medusa, and that it took on her image in its reflective surface (rather than just having her head nailed to it). There are probably a LOT of versions of it, though.
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Oct 16, 2014 15:46
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GeneralYeti posted:In our current language, 'aegis' has been taken to be the protection provided by a strong force, usually benevolent. Feinne posted:My general recollection was that Aegis was the shield given to Perseus to help him slay Medusa, and that it took on her image in its reflective surface (rather than just having her head nailed to it). I specifically picked the name on these two factors, the irony of "benevolence" being used for self-serving yet also self-sacrificing ends and the idea of a shield so powerful and evil it can now harm others by merely being pointed at them. I put way too much thought into this name, but I'm really glad people picked up on it
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Oct 17, 2014 03:08
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GeneralYeti posted:
Oh boy, this thread too? I liked reading your stuff in 100%'s thread, so I look forward to what else you have to say in here. Well I got the footage for the next update. Now I just have to figure out how to write something from this mess. I just decided to revert to a previous save file (I am keeping several backups on some external storages in case another technology screw up happens again) because there was no way I was tackling the 5th floor without any Nectars. We have yet to see some of the worst enemies in the stratum. And in my frustration for my main team dying a lot, I just decided to take the farming team to get me more money, only for them to die too. Then again they had nothing but the initial equipment, so I was kind of asking for it there. In short, expect lots of death, which is probably the authentic EO experience.
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Oct 17, 2014 04:23
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Dr. Fetus posted:We have yet to see some of the worst enemies in the stratum. I already feel sorry for Nick.
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Oct 17, 2014 04:40
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I have something planned for something a bit later in the game, but I need two more Hexers to pull it off. So, two more names and portraits for those two. No personality or backstory please, they're only gonna be featured for one update. As for the next update, well when you play a series of games that really improves with each game, and go back to an earlier game, it's kind of a rough transition. Replayed 3, it's a good game, go for it if you can. It was a bit tough to get motivated for this again. Araxxor fucked around with this message at 05:33 on Oct 19, 2014 |
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Oct 19, 2014 05:28
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The first portrait for the Hexer looks like he could be a distant part of the Belmont family. Looking forward to the death reel (most likely Nick's) in the next update!
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Oct 19, 2014 05:40
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4th Hexer portrait named Simone because screw creativity.
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Oct 19, 2014 06:50
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Excellent. I assure you all the payoff will be well worth it if I can pull this off properly. Another little video. I guess it spoils a little fight in the next update. I'm personally happy with the way this one turned out. The video quality is better, and it doesn't feel like my eardrums are going to burst from the audio, but I figured I would get a second opinion on it. Next update will hopefully be up later today, or tomorrow.
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Oct 19, 2014 17:30
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Dr. Fetus posted:Excellent. I assure you all the payoff will be well worth it if I can pull this off properly. Looks good to me!
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Oct 19, 2014 17:51
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Video looks great. And wow, Slaveimp is really weak. I guess most of the first FOEs you fight in the series only really have the gimmick of hitting harder than normal enemies, though.
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Oct 19, 2014 18:48
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Death Montage Let's start off by exploring that area on the 4th floor we skipped over last time.  PC-88 Version There's a FOE patrolling the hallway here.  : There's more dinos!? : They don't look docile like the one on the first floor originally did. Raptor Type: Normal Behavior: Patrol Aggressive: Yes HP: 600 AT: 22 DF: 22 Skills: Fangs The Gashtor was a much weaker version of these enemies. While we were able to take that thing on without too much trouble, trying to engage the Raptor will just turn our party into dinosaur feed. Even if we had a max level Climax, we still wouldn't be able to handle these in a fight. Climax is broken, but it does not completely invalidate the FOE system in most conditions. (Although in any other EO game, it would.) The only way we can take on FOEs headfirst at this point is to go in with several Force Skills ready and just unleash them on the poor monster.  This thing just goes up and down the hallway, and will chase you down if it sees you. : I think it saw us! : Hurry, in here! You can hide in here for as long as you need to, and then sneak by once the Raptor passes the door.  While double Evil Eyes can be scary, they aren't guaranteed to blindside you so you have a turn to set up or just run away.  : More of those lizard things. : I think I see the stairs over there.: Too bad we can't climb over walls.   There's some Slaveimps in this room that patrol in a pattern in this part of the map. Also simple to avoid.  Just hits an enemy with a Volt spell. Lame. : Man, when can we start getting the awesome stuff again?  The Take Point is right at the end of this path.  PC-88 Version Oh, I am not dealing with this.  : The plague has you.  : Oh yes! All will suffer!    Aliara's Poison is pretty decent for problematic encounters now. : Uh, anyone concerned about a girl that revels in causing pain and misery to everything?: Nah, not really.: A bit, but she is coming in handy.PC-88 Version Eh, could be better. : Well, we've seen everything that we can over here. Now let's get over to the stairs.PC-88 Version     Our party is a lot stronger now. Solo Ladybugs are no longer a threat. It got killed before it got a chance to do anything. Most things aren't really a threat now.  Uh.  : Oh dear, I believe I'm having another heart attack.: Hold still Frederik.   : Ah, much better!: Aren't gunshots supposed to hurt people? Not heal them?: Don't question my skills.  : Why does everything in this Labyrinth hate me!?: God. drat. It. Nick.: We really need to get him some better armor.: No don't! I have to win that bet!:  Well I was looking to explore the rest of this floor, but lugging a body around will just slow us down. So, back to town.After restocking and going back in, this happens. PC-88 Version   : I think I see light. Or is that fire?: Times that Aliara died, 1! How do you like it now?: Come on Nick. Don't stoop to her level.One restart later. PC-88 Version  : Oh, hello there!It startles the guard from his activity of looking around the forest anxiously.  : Oh...! You must be Firefly, right? I heard that many guilds were sent to defeat Chimaera.: Yep, that's us.: But I must tell you, Beowulf has already ascended to the fifth floor to challenge it.: Aw, what? They're gonna get the mission done before we can get there!: Calm down Nick. Flausgul's probably the one best suited for this job anyway. He seems to be pretty experienced. It'll be less work for us.: You see... some time ago, they lost many of their comrades to the king of beasts.: Wait, what?: The remaining two decided to press on in the hopes of defeating the monster someday. But if they couldn't do it with five, I don't see how they'll manage it with two...: Oh dear. This is bad.The guard shakes his head worriedly. : Beowulf's leader, the one called Flausgul, is an amazing man. I only hope the worst is not about to befall him...: We'll make sure it doesn't happen.The guard looks up into the forest again anciously. If you would challenge Chimaera, you must hurry and pursue Beowulf to the 5th floor. You can talk to the guard again. You attempt to strike up a conversation with the guard. : Please, Firefly... Look after Beowulf...The guard's voice is small and plaintive, and his gaze does not waver from the forest sky. You must hurry and pursue Beowulf to the 5th floor. : That idiot is gonna get himself killed! Come on! We need to get to the next floor!  Huh? But that's the name of an enemy from the 6th stratum. What happened? Memory overflow or something?: Oh we do NOT have time for this!  Even if the party is in a rush, that doesn't mean we can't celebrate with leveling up a few skills. Overhead's leveled up to 6. Yawn.  Climax's HP threshold is increased to 16%. Meh.  Warmight now gives a 40% damage boost, which is really nice.  Medishot's TP cost is lowered to 9. I did this mainly because Gunners have really terrible TP pools, and I want to make the most out of it.  Aliara's Poison now has an 87% chance to land.   Another Slaveimp in the area, just make sure to avoid getting into a battle in its path. PC-88 Version  : Dammit.: Not the time Ken!  : Not good.: I'm wondering if I should be more concerned about Guild Beowulf, or you two.: Flausgul's gonna be dead by the time we get there. : Back to town. Again. PC-88 Version We did gather enough materials to make a new bow at least. : Are we going back in there?: What do you think? While we're in the higher floors, I've sent in the gathering team to hopefully make enough money to pay off the hospital bills you two racked up.In my frustration at these deaths that were costing me money on valuable Warp Wires, I decided to make some of it back by gathering stuff.  : Wow, it's been a while since we've been in here. : At least we're doing something. : Did you talk to Fedot? : Oh I think I've convinced him. I've dazzled him with my talents. : Yes that's... really great. PC-88 Version I find two of these here. PC-88 Version : Whoa! A moving cactus!: Oh yeah, we saw some on our way to some part of the second floor. Careful, they hit hard. : Taken down by a cactus. How humiliating.: I did say careful. : Slain by a cactus. This isn't what should've happened.: What part of being careful didn't you understand?Yeah the farming team is only wearing their initial equipment, so this was to be expected. Since they're only level 1, the costs to revive each person is only 5 en, so I don't mind too much. PC-88 Version I find two of these here.  And one of this. PC-88 Version Selling off the Sour Fruits unlocked Guard Soles for sale. These reduce the amount of damage we take when we walk over damage tiles. Which we won't see until the next stratum.   Selling off the Amazonite unlocks these two items. Leg Guards just increase leg bind resistance by 30%.  Aragonite unlocks this, which increases luck by 10. Could be handy for a Hexer or Dark Hunter. PC-88 Version  : You know, for being a Protector, you're not really good at your job.: I could say the same for you.: Really guys? Man, I wonder if Fedot has to deal with things like this often. : Sorry, boss.: Okay, this is just getting ridiculous.I got a bit frustrated at this, so I decided to grind the gathering team up so they could survive any more gathering trips. Nothing interesting happened in this trip anyway.  I quickly abandoned that plan when I realized how long this would take. : Okay, 5th time's the charm.: You said that about the 3rd and 4th times too. : Slowly now...     : Whoa, those things don't look good. What did you do to them?: Just you wait. : : That was sick!Okay, I might as well talk about Poison now that you've seen how powerful it can be. At level 10 it has a 105% base chance to land while dealing 295 base damage. This means that anything that doesn't resist it is guaranteed to get poisoned. And since it's AOE in this game, it's super good for random battles. What's that? When does Poison fall off? AhahahahahahahahaHAHAHA! Okay it does fall off. In the postgame! For the main game though? Poison is essentially an “I win” button in random battles you can slam for just 15 TP. You do have to smack each enemy once when you get to the 4th and 5th strata, but Poison will still take off a huge chunk of their health. Granted there are enemies that are immune to poison, but those are pretty rare. Someone in the thread mentioned having Poison is like having the Arcanist's max level Poison Circle from EO4. While number wise that's true, power wise it's more like having a Nightseeker's 100% chance Auto-Spread max level Venom Throw this early into the game. The reason for this is because the HP values of everything in the game is the lowest it's been in the series. It's made up for everything having higher defenses, but when you have abilities that can bypass those defenses, it just breaks the game. And this is just one of many things that's broken about the Hexer. But at this point, 15 TP is a pretty hefty cost, so we can only use Poison for emergency situations, or for encounters I just don't want to deal with.  PC-88 Version Accidentally ran into a Slaveimp here, but let me just show you how weak they are. Video: Slaveimp       : Is that really the best that thing's got?: Please don't hurt me anymore!: Maybe those deaths are finally getting to him.: Nah, he's always been like that.Slaveimps have absolutely pathetic damage.  : This FOE isn't really that tough.This is Ken's normal attack. He's pretty much the best damage dealer in the group right now, and he's gonna hold that position for a long time.  Sadly, despite Aliara's Poison having a really good chance to land on regular enemies, FOEs are pretty resistant to status effects.  Didn't even need Climax for that one. That's how pathetic they are. PC-88 Version : Oh, I think there's a path through here.: We really can't waste any time- get back here Frederik! There's another Raptor here, but it only walks down this hallway unless it notices you.  : Oh dear.: Great job, now a dino wants to eat us!: Run! : Maybe we can hide in there?: No, that's a dead end. Come on! : Goddammit, not now!This is a pretty tense moment in any EO game. Getting into a random battle while an FOE is on your tail can be a bit scary. Stuff like that is why I like the series and the FOE system. I really think the FOE system adds a lot to the game without being too obtrusive in the dungeon design. It definitely keeps you on your toes. PC-88 Version : Aliara, can you poison them?: Okay! : Oh no oh no oh no! : Please tell me there's a way out of this!: I'm sorry. But I think this is it for us. Then again, we knew the risks when we signed up for this whole thing.: Actually, I didn't sign up for-: Hold on! Here's a way out, follow me! : Okay, now what? We're still sandwiched between a wall and a dinosaur.: Look, there's a path over there!PC-88 Version There are five tripwires lain, and all but one will set off the trap. It's a simple snare, but a difficult one to see through... : Not one that we can get through easily, I'm afraid.: Hang on, I've got this. Just keep away from me.As you give up on the trap, one by one, your ronin waits for a chance to step in. Once the way is clear, the ronin sits in a meditative position and closes both eyes. : Uh, Ken?  Before you can blink, the blade is back in its sheath, and the trap lies exposed to all. Thanks to your ronin, the trap has been destroyed, and you may proceed down the trail.  : Whoa! How did you know which one was the right one?: Oh, the same trap was used in this comic-: I've heard enough. Try not to blow away what little dignity you have left.  Meh, it just increases arm bind resistance.  But it is immediately apparent that doing so will be no simple task. A monstrous, grey spider whose web is strong as steel waits for you there... The metallic strands are spun far and wide. You wonder if there's any way through... You take turns trying your hand at cutting the web's strands. But the thread is harder than you expected, and you make no progress whatsoever. : Really, Ken? You can cut through a trap, but not a spiderweb?: I don't know why! This web is really tough to cut through. If I keep trying, I'm just gonna break my katana!: My sword spear isn't enough either. Not even stabbing or cutting it is working on this web.: What about that sword chick in our team? Can't she use both swords and axes? Maybe that can get past this. We need Emilia for this passageway. No explanation for why a Ronin can't do it, but the only explanation I can think of is that a Landsknecht can dual wield a sword and a axe and use those to cut through. I dunno.  : Cornered again.: Another passageway here.: Wait!Just as you are about to take your first step, a rabbit darts past your legs into the path. You gape in horror as the leaves attack the rabbit, devouring its meat in an instant! It seems the plants are not only carnivorous, but vicious as well. : Okay, any ideas?: Not to worry, I have a mixture that can deal with these kinds of plants. Hold still everyone.You blanch after the gruesome sight, but your war magus steps forward fearlessly. The war magus produces a vial and applies the purple liquid from it to your bodies. It seems the salve will mask your scent, making it safe to walk down the path! You will have to suppress your gag reflex, but you may now continue down the hidden path. : Ugh, you couldn't have made this smell better, grandpa?: It's either that, or being eaten by a dinosaur. Take your pick.   The Headdress is a very nice piece of headgear. I put it on Nick because his defenses are really lacking.  Suddenly, arrows fly from all directions, piercing the ground near your feet! It seems that the hidden passage is riddled with traps. : Hey Ken, you're pretty tough, why don't you get past this for us?: What? Oh hell no, I'm not going through that! You do it!You argue over who will brave the gauntlet of traps, but no decision can be reached. It's useless to discuss any further. You abandon the passage and return to the investigation. : Break it up you two. Just forget about it for now. I'm thinking we'll need our Protector for this one. We have more important things to be concerned about. Like, oh, I don't know, Guild Beowulf? Aegis is needed for this one. We'll come back here later. Also remember this secret area for later. We'll be in here for a quest later. For a long time.   : Whoa, what's wrong with the trees?: I've never seen trees wither like that before.: Hmm, I wonder if the Grand Duchy should know about this. Mark this spot down for later.Despite me writing all that, there's actually nothing in here in the game. But you do need to remember this spot later for a quest. Which the game also doesn't tell you about.  Another Raptor down this path.  Just walks in a straight line until it catches sight of you.  When you've aggro'd it, walk all the way around the area to get past it.  You can also hide in this room to lose the Raptor. The last of the gathering points, the mining point, is in this room.  : Finally, something good for once!This is gonna come in really handy for the next floor, or the boss. Therica BX is essentially Medishot, except it can cure everything, even petrification. PC-88 Version  The Headdress makes Nick a lot tankier and he can even survive hits from Evil Eyes now. Where otherwise he would've gotten killed again. : Haha! It hurts, but I'm still standing!: Congratulations Nick. You've reached the point where I'm actually applauding you for not being taken out by monsters.: Oh come on, no need for the sarcastic clapping. Did I really get knocked out that many times?: Aliara?: 8 times total!: Grr...PC-88 Version Aside from those two passageways, we've seen just about everything on the floor.  : Oh my, I believe there's a Submagnetic Pole over there!: Geomagnetic. And thank god. We could all use a break over those disasters on the 4th floor.: Wait are you serious? Finally! Some resting time!: What about Flausgul?: We're in no condition to keep going. We'll go back to town, rest up, and try to catch up to him. Hopefully it's not too late. NO NO NO THIS IS THE WORST POSSIBLE TIME! PC-88 Version  Oh. For a second I thought I would get into a battle with one of the worst enemies on the floor. Cube Gel HP: 114 AT: 13 DF: 14 Exp: 427 Skills: Acid Item Drops: -Common: Gel Core - 2 needed for Warhammer (Staff) and Hell Claw. 5 Needed for Tabarzin (Axe.) --The nucleus of a cube-like gel. -Rare: N/A -Conditional: Fiber Hide - Kill with Stab. 1 needed for Plume Boot. --Thin, stretched cubic tissue. Description: An unusual lifeform made of viscous liquid. Normal attacks have little effect. Weakness: Elemental (200%) Resistance: Physical (50%) These enemies are uninteresting. They're basically, do you have an elemental attack? Y/N? And that's it. They're not threatening, they just take a while to kill if you don't have elementals available. Acid does do a bit of damage, and heals the Cube Gel for half the damage it dealt, so it can take a while to get the conditional, but really it's not a threat.    Fedot used Fireshot here, while the other two just kind of struggled to cut through it.  We take it down easily.  : Okay, time to head back to town and resupply.PC-88 Version We killed so many Woodmais that we finally unlocked this weapon.  The TP boost is a really good benefit, and as much as I would like to buy it, I'm saving up my en for the Kurodachi for Ken, once I unlock it.   : It's a new sword... Made of a super-dense metal... Urrgh...: Oh, here! I got it!: Wait, no! Oh... I'm sorry... You didn't have to... I-I didn't mean for you to... W-Well, thank you very much for helping me. I didn't have any idea how to move that thing. *sigh* I shouldn't do this to customers, or they'll never come back... I'm really sorry!: No no, it's fine!: W-Well, I'll be cleaning up, but just call me if you need something! PC-88 Version  : Beware of that place. I've heard too many stories of explorers losing their lives there. I'm sure you'll be all right, just... use extreme caution.: And if we don't hurry, Guild Beowulf is going to join them. PC-88 Version  : They say you've even reached the 5th floor. If so, take even more caution than before. There's a fierce monster at the 5th floor's end. Don't take it lightly, or you'll regret it. That's all the advice I have for you. Never underestimate the Labyrinth.: Oh, no need to remind us. The Labyrinth reminds Nick of that all the time!: When did I become the butt of every joke? PC-88 Verison  : How are things going? I'd say your careers are taking off nicely. The inn's owner came by here the other day for a scheduled checkup on her daughter. She told me you were some of the better explorers staying with her. But you should still be careful, and look after yourselves.: Huh, actual recognition. Barely got any of that back in Etria.PC-88 Version  : Be careful, though. I hear there's quite the beastie up on that floor. This one lot nearly got wiped out by the thing, before they were saved by another guild. And I'll tell yeh, they knew what they were about. The fiend was just too strong. If yeh're planning to go up against it, be careful. I don't like to hear about guilds dying!: Can we really take down Chimaera?: We'll have to or it's gonna cause problems for everyone in Lagaard. : What's this one about?: Oi... I'm not so sure yeh should take that one. It's a bit... fishy.: Come on, tell us the details!: Yeh want to hear the details anyway, eh? I knew yeh wouldn't be satisfied... All right... There's a geezer lives far from the main city, name of Chapman. More commonly known around Lagaard as Braggart Chap. His story is that he was an explorer once, but no one believes it. Insists that there's a spring that collects the moon's tears. Swears up and down he saw it. Nice story, sure, but this is Braggart Chap. I doubt the man's been as far as the 5th floor. But if yeh're going to chase tall tales, I won't stop yeh. Just don't get your hopes up.: Who knows, it may be worth looking into.We need to go to the 5th floor at night to tackle this quest, so the guild will have to sleep in.  : Ahh, yes, that one. Say... When did yeh lot become such good friends with the guards? : Uh, what are you talking about?: I got this request from one of the Duke's guards. Quite the gentleman, that lad. He waxed eloquent about all this guild had done for him... And judging by his description, he can only have meant yeh. The young guard over at the Duke's Palace can tell yeh more about the job. Get going! : But what about this one? It looks like they're wondering about they dying trees too.: Ahh, that one? It's from the healer from before. Yeh know, the man at the hospital. Apparently, the trees in the Labyrinth have been withering abnormally. He wants yeh to find the cause. I dunno much about it, but it sounds pretty serious. Check in at the hospital to get more details. G'luck!And this is the start of a quest line that I really really hate. Well let's check in at the Duke's Palace first. PC-88 Version: Mm? Can I help you, sirs?: One of your guards called for us. He made a request at the bar.: Ah... yes, a quest, I see. It must be someone from the guard corps. Please wait here. : Who are you?: Huh? Don't you remember me? Oh... I guess we all look the same with our helmets on, haha. I'm one of the guys you brought those supplies to in the Labyrinth... remember?: Ohhhh! Yeah, I remember! You were on the 4th floor.: Yeah, exactly! Well, I've got another favor to ask of you. The roads of High Lagaard are decorated with a beautiful mineral called Amazonite. Some roads are in need of repair, and we were going to fix them, but we don't have any Amazonite left. It's usually no problem to get some more, but we're pretty busy now, so could you help out? All you have to do is Mine at an item point in the Labyrinth. Once you collect five chunks of Amazonite, just take them to Cass at the bar.: Sounds like another job for the gathering team. Sure, we'll do it.: If you don't have any questions, I'll get back to work now... Hope to see you soon!Basically a fetch quest. Yawn. We'll do this later. PC-88 Verison: Hey doc, Cass told us to come here about something.: Oh, this is about the request isn't it? Sorry, it's strange to see you at this late hour. We've been getting strange reports from explorers and guards about the matter... Have you seen it, too? Parts of the Labyrinth are withering away unnaturally. I hope I'm overthinking it, but I'm afraid I'm not. There must be some reason behind it. No one's too worried about it yet, but it could lead to some very serious consequences. I'll turn over whatever data you collect to the Northern Academy.: The what now?: Oh, I guess I should explain that they're an organization of healers across this hemisphere. But to get the ball rolling, I need you to verify a few specific instances for proof. There are currently clusters of trees on the 5th and 6th floors that are withering away. I think samples from three areas should be sufficient to begin. Oh, just to let you know, this request has nothing to do with the hospital or the Grand Duchy. I don't want to spread rumors without evidence to back them up. Please keep this a secret. Once you have the samples, can you turn them in at the bar? I'm counting on you!: Will do, doc!Okay, so some quests have a minimum requirement to finish them, but you get the biggest reward for meeting the maximum requirements. While we can turn in 3 samples, we can actually turn in 5, and I'll show those all off. That spot I marked earlier on the map? That's one place we need to go to for the quest.  : Chimaera? Yep. : One of my guests told me about it, and I know they'd never lie. It gave me a real scare to hear about all those different types of monsters mixed together! Are you sure you'll be okay? Don't overdo it... You can't explore if you're dead!: We'll be fine. I hope. Get some rest now, cause we're going back in as soon as possible.
Araxxor fucked around with this message at 17:17 on Sep 6, 2015 |
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Oct 19, 2014 21:54
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Here lies Nick  ...and here, and here, and here, and here...
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Oct 20, 2014 02:45
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Dr. Fetus posted:
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Oct 20, 2014 03:52
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Whoops, thanks. Although I did have to check the footage to see if the second one was there or not. The game does make typos and spelling errors occasionally.
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Oct 20, 2014 04:00
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Dr. Fetus posted:Whoops, thanks. Although I did have to check the footage to see if the second one was there or not. The game does make typos and spelling errors occasionally. I do recall seeing something like "[red](dialogue)[/red]" at some point in the game.
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Oct 20, 2014 04:06
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theshim posted:Here lies Nick Nick is dead! Let's Play Etrian Odyssey II: Heroes of Lagaard
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Oct 20, 2014 04:53
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Is a Dark Hunter ever going to be a good front-line character? I guess level 5 is a bit early to be thinking about that.
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Oct 20, 2014 09:39
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Glazius posted:Is a Dark Hunter ever going to be a good front-line character? I guess level 5 is a bit early to be thinking about that. Etrian Odyssey games have this thing where your party members don't really start exhibiting their class mechanics for real until some point around the 3rd Stratum. Until then most party members are either "hit a dude" or "cast at a dude" or "buff/heal a dude" without any real extra sophistication.
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Oct 20, 2014 14:48
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Aside from Medic, which is pretty much always the same unless you're going for a combat build. It gets better techniques and more TP as it goes along, of course.
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Oct 20, 2014 14:53
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Hobgoblin2099 posted:Aside from Medic, which is pretty much always the same unless you're going for a combat build. It gets better techniques and more TP as it goes along, of course. Actually, most of the challenge runs I see of EO2 rely very strongly on Medic in order to Not Die Against Massive AOEs. CPR's a hell of a skill and triggers surprisingly often at Level 10.
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Oct 20, 2014 15:01
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Dark Hunters are very good frontline supports. It's just that the frontline I'm using has no earlygame power. Dark Hunters are FOE exterminators, but I don't have Climax maxed out on Nick yet, and Ken needs a ton of skill points before he gets his big damage skill. The thing is, the earlygame of most EO games (except for Untold's Story Mode) tends to be the roughest part of the game. So most of the deaths and stuff are gonna happen in the first stratum. They're usually a lot more uncommon after that unless I make a huge mistake, I run into another one of Atlus' screw yous, or if I reach the postgame. Nick only just got enough armor to stop dying all the time. And yes, you do want them to be on the front lines since they have some really good skills that kind of rely on that.Hobgoblin2099 posted:Aside from Medic, which is pretty much always the same unless you're going for a combat build. It gets better techniques and more TP as it goes along, of course. Sadly, Combat Medic was only a thing you could do in the first game, and it's a lategame build. It's not as good here, and it already exists in the form of War Magus. It's not even good in Untold since one of the skills they needed to be a combat Medic got a huge nerf. Hivac posted:Actually, most of the challenge runs I see of EO2 rely very strongly on Medic in order to Not Die Against Massive AOEs. CPR's a hell of a skill and triggers surprisingly often at Level 10. Yep, 55% chance at max level. It's a pretty good skill.
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Oct 20, 2014 16:38
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w/r/t "The first stratum is the hardest and most death-prone... until the post game that is!" I can't gush enough about EO difficulty curves, and that's another aspect I love. Because you've outlined it perfectly before Dr. Fetus, that nothing gets easier, you just get more tricks and become generally more competent as the enemies rise in power at an expected rate. Then you hit the post-game and the game difficulty basically says "Wow, you've built up a team with all sorts of fun gimmicks! What if they were like level 1 squish-balls again, but also with lvl 10 climax? Hah wouldn't that be crazy anyway HERE YOU GO"
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Oct 20, 2014 21:50
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"Hey guys. Where's nick?" "Oh he's there...and there...and there...he's pretty much everywhere."
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Oct 20, 2014 22:00
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Game Mechanics - Status Effects and Binds Status Effects are a part of pretty much every RPG, and the standard stuff such as poison, confusion, and instant death are in the Etrian Odyssey series as well. They're pretty handy in disabling the enemy and they can be applied as many times as you want. Some enemies are resistant or immune to some statuses, so it can be a little harder or impossible to land them in some battles. Some classes have certain statuses they can inflict, but the most reliable classes for inflicting these are the Hexer (Up to 87% base chance on most skills) and the Dark Hunter (Up to 65% base chance.) The status effects are as follows:  Blind: Reduces accuracy. This does affect spells as well as physical attacks. Some skills will always hit regardless of accuracy, and aren't affected by this. Paralysis: Affected targets have a 50% chance to not do anything. Later games made it so that paralyzed allies or enemies cannot evade attacks. Confusion: Confused fighters cannot use skills and can only use regular attacks. They can also attack their own allies. This skill is effectively a silence. Sleep: Affected targets cannot act in battle and will take double damage when hit while sleeping. The status is dispelled afterwards. Poison: Deals a set amount of damage per turn depending on the skill that was used to inflict this status. Curse: Whenever the affected target deals damage, they take back half the total damage they dealt in return. This is more deadly for your party than it is for the enemy, since Etrian Odyssey follows the JRPG rule of you doing more damage to your enemies than they can do to you. Terror: The same thing as paralysis. Affected targets have a 50% chance to not do anything. Later games made it so that TP was lost when the target fails to act. Hexers can control terrified enemies and make them waste a turn attacking each other or themselves. Petrification: This status is more deadly for the enemy than it is for your party. Affected party members are completely incapacitated and cannot move until cured. This isn't the same thing as death, party members can still get exp after battle, and they can still be targeted in battle by enemies. This is the only status effect that sticks around after battle, aside from death. Enemies cannot recover from this, so it functions as an instant kill. This status does not count for instant kill conditional drops. Death: Uh, what's there to explain? Party members can't gain exp after battle if they're dead. Instant death can inflict this, and it should be noted that instant death does count as a status effect in this game. So skills that help you resist status effects will also affect instant death.Stun: Target cannot move for the turn. This is a special one since it actually stacks with other status effects. Stun does not carry over to the next turn, so if you're trying to inflict this status effect, you have to move before the enemy. Not only are there the standard RPG status effects, but Etrian Odyssey has another category of disables known as binds. Some skills use a certain body part, which are head, arms, and legs. And if that body part is bound, that skill cannot be used. Binds also apply a debuff as well as preventing skills from being used. Binds do stack with each other and status effects. Binds are more effective on the enemy than on your own party because while the game won't let you select any skills that use the bound body part, it doesn't have the same courtesy for the enemy. Sometimes the enemy will attempt to use a skill, even if it can't use it, making them waste a turn. Like status effects, binds can be inflicted on an enemy as many times as you want. The chance of a bind falling off increases by 8% per turn. It should be noted that knowing which bind to land on an enemy is actually pretty intuitive most of the time. The skill names enemies use almost always indicate which body part is being used, and looking at the enemy art can give you a hint on which bind is the most helpful. For example, against most four legged enemies, you'll probably get the best results by binding their legs. Note that you can't shut down a boss this way since they tend to use all of their body parts in a fight. The most effective classes for inflicting binds are the War Magus (Up to 105% base chance, but they need some setup first), Hexer (up to 87% base chance), and the Dark Hunter (Up to 65% base chance).  Head Bind: Lowers TEC and accuracy. Arm Bind: Lowers damage. Leg Bind: Lowers AGI and evasion. Cannot escape from battle.The chance of landing a status effect or bind in this game is only influenced by one stat, luck. Typically if your luck is lower than the enemy's luck, you'll have a lower chance of inflicting a disable. If your luck is equal or higher, you'll have an equal or higher chance than the base chance. Other games also used technique in their formulas, but how important that stat was varies from game to game. (Some games had it half as important while Untold makes it equally as important.) There's just one main problem with status effects and binds. They're not as effective on bosses. You know, the main enemies you really want to use them on. Bosses have a special resistance to disables. In the first game, they reduced the chance of a status effect landing on them to 5% of their base chance, which made using statuses pretty much a worthless strategy against them. Binds on the other hand only had their chance reduced to 50% or 65% of their base chance which made them the more reliable disables. However, in this game, status effects now only get reduced to 20% of their base chance for most bosses, meaning it's easier to inflict them on bosses in this game. Binds on the other hand got nerfed. The base chance of a bind landing is reduced to 25% of their base chance for most bosses, making them a bit unreliable against bosses where in the first game they were more likely to shut down some attacks. It should be noted that the whole status effects and binds system got a huge rework in EO3, which the rest of the games have stuck with. The short version is that status effects and binds can no longer be applied to enemies as much as you want, and each time you land a certain disable on an enemy, it's harder to inflict the same disable again. On the plus side, bosses can actually be hit by disables more reliably in that game. Well, until the postgame. I won't elaborate on this system since it's irrelevant to this game, but someone else in the thread may be willing to for the curious.
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Oct 21, 2014 21:15
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Class Discussion - Dark Hunter The rest of the portraits. The EO1 class portraits. No name change here, they were known as Dark Hunters in Japan as well. These guys were in the first game, and were a bit underused. They had a bunch of weird and situational skills, and were overlooked for other options, such as Landsknechts, Survivalists, or even Ronin. So Atlus decided to buff them. A little too much. They're the class of choice for taking down FOEs for this game, and unlike Alchemists, they can do it all game. Dark Hunters are offensive supports that can operate on the front lines. They're more of a utility based class instead of a straight up damage dealer. Like Landsknechts, they know how to use two kinds of weapons, whips and swords. Whips specialize in binds, while swords specialize in status effects and deal more damage. Swords are a better choice if you want your Dark Hunter to be dealing more damage, but whips can provide some decent utility. Shadow Cloak, Fury, and Boost Up are all gone, the last of which would have been incredibly broken in this game. (Hello rapid-fire Dominates!) But even then, Dark Hunters are a lot stronger than in the first game. Climax got a massive buff, and Bait now has a magical counterpart. Thanks to their force skill, they have the most reliable method of binding enemies in the game. Stats Level 1 HP - 42 TP - 26 STR - 7 TEC - 5 VIT - 5 AGI - 5 LUC - 5 Level 70 HP - 503 TP - 151 STR - 60 TEC - 36 VIT - 51 AGI - 54 LUC - 33 Level 99 HP - 731 TP - 330 STR - 77 TEC - 53 VIT - 69 AGI - 73 LUC - 51 Dark Hunters are slightly fragile, but they're pretty fast and have some decent offense. Like always, HP and TP Up are good choices for stats to level up. Strength is another choice if you want to increase their offensive power. Luck can also be a decent choice if you want your Dark Hunter to inflict ailments and binds more easily. Whips/Swords Max lvl: 10 Like most mastery skills, both skills give an 11% boost in damage to their respective skills when maxed. Antisick/Antibind Needs lvl. 3 Unbind Max lvl: 5 These are passives that make the Dark Hunter more resistant to status effects and binds. They both scale the same way. Level 1 gives a 15% chance to resist status effects/binds, while level 5 gives an 80% chance. Could be something worth taking if you have any leftover skill points. Viper Needs lvl. 1 Whips Max lvl: 5 A damage skill that has a chance of poisoning the enemy. This is the only whip skill that can dish out a status effect, and I don't consider it to be that great. At level 1 it costs 4 TP, deals 125% damage, and has a 25% chance to inflict Poison that ticks for 20 base damage. At level 5 it costs 9 TP, deals 200% damage, and has a 45% chance to inflict Poison that ticks for 140 base damage. The damage is nice, but the Dark Hunter has other skills that deal slightly more damage, and has a much better side effect. If you want to poison something, just use the Hexer's version of it. Shackles/Cuffs/Gag Needs lvl. 2/3/4 Whips Max lvl: 10 These are damage skills that can bind an enemy's legs/arms/head respectively. At level 1 each skill costs 4 TP, deals 125% damage, and has a 20% chance of binding. At level 5 they deal 135% damage, cost 8 TP, and have a 30% chance of binding. At level 10 they deal 210% damage, cost 13 TP, and have a 65% chance of binding their respective body part. Only max out one of these skills. Taking anymore is a huge waste of skill points. The bind chance is unreliable, especially considering that they only have a 16% chance of working against bosses when luck isn't factored in. You take these skills for the damage, not the binds. The bind is just a nice side effect. If you really want to make use of a bind, Cuffs or Gag might be the better choice. There's not too many dangerous skills that make use of the legs. I prefer Gag myself, but if you really want to make use of binds, just use Dominate. The sword skills do more damage, so the only real reason to take one of these is if you intend on using Climax since there's not really any other damage skills whip users have otherwise. Ecstasy Needs lvl. 8 Whips, lvl. 5 STR Up Max lvl: 5 This is a damage skill that does an insane amount of damage to an enemy that is fully bound. At max level it costs 20 TP and does 750% damage. However, it does a terrible amount of damage if the enemy isn't fully bound. It was a bit iffy to set up in the first game, since binds weren't reliable. However, Dominate provides an easy setup for the skill. It's an absolutely fantastic skill because of that, and you should definitely take this skill. While they do have better damage skills in the form of Bait and Magibait, those can't really do anything to an enemy that's fully bound. So Ecstasy gives the Dark Hunter something to do against fully bound enemies. Climax Needs lvl. 6 Whips Max lvl: 10 This skill lets the Dark Hunter inflicts instant death on an enemy as long as their health is under a certain threshold. Unlike most instant death skills, this is a reliable form of it. All Climax checks for is two things. Is the enemy under the required threshold? Is the enemy immune to instant death? If it's no to the first, Climax will miss. If it's yes to both, Climax just deals a pitiful amount of damage. If it's yes to the first and no to the second, Climax will instantly kill the enemy, no exceptions. The Dark Hunter gets healed for the amount of HP the target had left, and it has a chance to restore a bit of TP. 1 - 4 TP - 10% 2 - 5 TP - 11% 3 - 6 TP - 13% 4 - 7 TP - 16% 5 - 8 TP - 20% 6 - 9 TP - 25% 7 - 10 TP - 31% 8 - 11 TP - 38% 9 - 12 TP - 46% 10 - 13 TP - 55% This skill is the main reason to use whips over swords. If you don't want to use this skill, then just have your Dark Hunter use swords instead. It doesn't work on most bosses, but it does work on FOEs, making this a pretty broken skill. Hypnos/Nerve/Petrify Needs lvl. 1/2/6 Swords Max lvl: 10 These are sword skills that can inflict sleep/paralysis/petrification on an enemy. Like the binding skills, the status effect just happens to be a nice side effect. You just take a skill for the damage, but the side effect is nice. Petrify can be a nice one to take for random encounters, since it basically is an instant kill, Although it's not as reliable as Climax, and no conditional drops in the game require you to petrify an enemy. It doesn't even count for the conditional drops that require you to instantly kill an enemy. They cost 4 TP at level 1, deal 135% damage, and have a 20% chance to inflict their status. Level 5 costs 8 TP, and has a 30% chance to inflict their status. Level 10 costs 13 TP, deals 230% damage, and has a 65% chance to inflict their status. A note on one of the names. GeneralYeti posted:Hypnos - The skill name could actually be a reference to multiple things, though the most likely is hypnosis. We get the name from Hypnos, the personification of sleep. Note that I didn't say God; the two are distinct. Hypnos's twin brother was Thanatos, the personification of death, probably because of death being the eternal sleep and all that. Mirage Needs lvl. 3 Swords Max lvl: 5 A sword skill that has a chance to cause confusion. I don't like it. At level 1 it costs 4 TP, does 125% damage, and has a 20% to cause confusion. At level 5, it costs 8 TP, but deals 150% damage and has a 30% chance to cause confusion. Yeah, don't take this skill, it's not good damage, and it doesn't even have a good chance of inflicting confusion. Drain Needs lvl. 4 Swords Max lvl: 5 A sword skill that heals the Dark Hunter depending on the amount of damage dealt. At level 1, it costs 4 TP, and 50% of the damage dealt is used to heal the Dark Hunter. At level 5 it costs 8 TP and deals 180% damage. The Dark Hunter is then healed for 100% of the damage dealt. Bait/Magibait Needs lvl. 8 Whips and Swords Max lvl: 5 Now these are their big damage skills, and you want your Dark Hunter to have both of these eventually. Depending on which skill is used, this allows the Dark Hunter to retaliate with a strong counterattack if they, or anyone adjacent to them get hit with a physical or magical attack. In the first game, Bait was the only counterattack skill they had, meaning that they couldn't counter elementals. This was also limited to sword users in the first game, but now whip users can use these as well. The positioning of the Dark Hunter is important for this skill. This skill will only proc if the Dark Hunter, or anyone right next to the Dark Hunter gets hit. So to get the best results, have 3 people in the front line, with the Dark Hunter in the middle. At level 1, the skills cost 10 TP, and the Dark Hunter has a 50% chance to counter any physical/magical attack headed for them or the people adjacent to them. At level 5, these skills costs 18 TP and will always counter any physical/magical attacks headed for them or anyone next to them. The counterattacks deal 400% damage at max level. The best part of this skill is that it can kick in multiple times. So if an enemy decides to attack your team with an AOE, the Dark Hunter will strike back with three 400% damage hits, assuming you're using the 3/2 formation. Ouch. This skill even procs if the damage was blocked through a Protector's Painless, or an Anti skill. Unbind Needs lvl. 1 TEC Up Max lvl: 5 Aside from the TEC Up requirement, it's the exact same skill as the Landsknecht's Unbound, with the exact same scaling and everything. Take it if you want, although you can just have some Therica As on hand if you need to unbind someone. Racket Max lvl: 5 This is a field skill that works like a Lure Bell, in that it lures some FOEs to the spot this skill is used. At level 1 it costs 15 TP, has a 4 tile range, and stuns FOEs for 3 turns. And at level 5 it costs 7 TP, has a 6 tile range, and stuns FOEs for 7 turns. I've never been a fan of field skills in the EO series, and this is no exception. With good movement and pattern recognition, you won't need any FOE items or skills. That said, this skill can have a very important use in the first stratum, so taking a few points in this can be something to consider. Then have your Dark Hunter rest or retire later and get back those skill points. Gathering Skill: Chop Force Skill: Dominate A single target skill that will always bind the Head, Arms, and Legs of the target, effectively making them completely helpless. This does not take in account any resistances they have. It will always land every time it's used, so it's the only reliable way to bind something. It does have a low speed modifier, so most of the time the Dark Hunter will move after the enemy, so having a safe way to set this up like Riot Gun or Painless is recommended. Even though Whip Dark Hunters are the ones that can use binds, Sword Dark Hunters can still use this skill. Of course, just because you can use Dominate on everything doesn't mean you should. Certain enemies can still use their skills even if they are fully bound, and some do not react well to it. They do not react well at all.  Whether they use whips or swords, this class is a very good offensive support in combat. Being able to reliably lock down any enemy with binds is a huge plus, and being able to cut FOE encounters in half is a really valuable contribution. You can't really go wrong with having a Dark Hunter in your team. In fact if it weren't for Hexers, this would be the most broken class in the game. Araxxor fucked around with this message at 22:36 on Jun 21, 2015 |
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Oct 21, 2014 21:15
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Dr. Fetus posted:Certain enemies can still use their skills even if they are fully bound, and some do not react well to it. They do not react well at all. This is something that comes up much, much later. It's terrible and one of the biggest dick moves in any Atlus game that I know of.
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Oct 21, 2014 21:43
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Hivac posted:This is something that comes up much, much later. It's terrible and one of the biggest dick moves in any Atlus game that I know of. Hopefully it's not so bad in EO2U. 
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Oct 21, 2014 22:17
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