|
It's still game play error (or failure to maintain?), but that's still just a warning. Whether it's cheating or not depends on if he did it intentionally, which there isn't really a good way to know for sure.
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2014 16:00
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 23, 2024 06:17 |
|
|
Hyper Crab Tank posted:It's still game play error (or failure to maintain?), but that's still just a warning. Whether it's cheating or not depends on if he did it intentionally, which there isn't really a good way to know for sure. Nah in this case the game state was correct it's just the dumb camera that didn't show things working. I'd make the argument that flourishing your cards like that is kinda shady but at that point it's singling the dude out, in the sense that I don't think you -should- flourish a delve without counting out your cards, but I'm sure people do.
|
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2014 16:23
|
|
|
mcmagic posted:That robots deck actually wins in your local meta? Everyone who plays it at my store has done terribly. Yea I wasn't prepared for it at all, and it would appear no one else was either. There were a lot of janky decks up there, so it is POSSIBLE he got 2 lucky rounds of jank before round 3 and 4 where he faced me and someone with a good deck. I just got unlucky and need more experience with the deck is what I tell myself. He Daring Thief'd my Rabblemaster which sucked and required a lot of thinking on how to get it back, and threw me off guard. It was only the second time I had used my Rabble Red deck in a competitive atmosphere.
|
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2014 16:39
|
|
|
OssiansFolly posted:Yea I wasn't prepared for it at all, and it would appear no one else was either. There were a lot of janky decks up there, so it is POSSIBLE he got 2 lucky rounds of jank before round 3 and 4 where he faced me and someone with a good deck. I just got unlucky and need more experience with the deck is what I tell myself. He Daring Thief'd my Rabblemaster which sucked and required a lot of thinking on how to get it back, and threw me off guard. It was only the second time I had used my Rabble Red deck in a competitive atmosphere. But Daring Thief is soooooo slow. Are you just playing all creatures and not Lightning Bolt/Stoke?
|
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2014 16:44
|
|
|
Rinkles posted:Kibler just won a game by Stubborn denialing a Stoke the Flames because the red player paid only w/ lands instead of tapping a Rabblemaster. This is from awhile ago, but convoke doesn't change the cmc of the spell anymore, it is just an alternate payment method. Even if I tap 4 goblin tokens, it can still be countered with disdainful stroke. See the gatherer rulings on convoke cards. If some other pedantic nerd already pointed this out, my bad Edit: only thing worse than a pedantic nerd is one that gets the nit picky stuff wrong on top of it. 
Molybdenum fucked around with this message at 17:00 on Oct 20, 2014 |
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2014 16:55
|
|
|
Molybdenum posted:This is from awhile ago, but convoke doesn't change the cmc of the spell anymore, it is just an alternate payment method. Even if I tap 4 goblin tokens, it can still be countered with disdainful stroke. See the gatherer rulings on convoke cards. Stubborn Denial <> Disdainful Stroke hth
|
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2014 16:57
|
|
|
Molybdenum posted:This is from awhile ago, but convoke doesn't change the cmc of the spell anymore, it is just an alternate payment method. Even if I tap 4 goblin tokens, it can still be countered with disdainful stroke. See the gatherer rulings on convoke cards. You're thinking of Disdainful Stroke.
|
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2014 16:57
|
|
|
I've stopped linking my writing in this thread, since I figure people know about it already. However. I think this week's installment about Time Spiral is by far the most important review in my rundown of every block in Magic. So, here it is.
|
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2014 17:03
|
|
|
Zoness posted:Nah in this case the game state was correct it's just the dumb camera that didn't show things working. His opponent clearly indicated the Scalding Tarn with Deathrite Shaman, though. He should've exiled it, but he didn't. Did he exile something else? In the end he had enough for Treasure Cruise anyway (exiled 8 cards from his GY), but he could've just as easily not drawn another fetch. Again, that doesn't he mean he was cheating since cheating is by definition deliberate.
|
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2014 17:13
|
|
|
kingcobweb posted:I've stopped linking my writing in this thread, since I figure people know about it already. quote:Because of all these references, it’s led to a lot of handwaving non-criticism from people that look at cards like this as just a bunch of in-jokes. That’s not the best way to approach it. I like that you touched on this part because it assumes that the cards don't make sense to people who didn't play magic 10 years before TSP was released but it's a dumb lazy statement. But what's your opinion on how Future Sight chose to tease Planeswalker cards by people looking at Steamflogger Boss and Tarmogoyf side-by-side? I don't think there's anyway for people to relive that moment but the set had Bound in Silence as a tribal card which is a type that showed up on Tarmogoyf's reminder text, Steamflogger boss as a card that says "this is pretty much a joke card" for future mechanics, then Tarmogoyf which had Planeswalker as a type on a card that people initially didn't see as outright broken. Anyway time spiral owned even if TPF wasn't exactly the deepest draft format thanks to a certain green common. Hyper Crab Tank posted:His opponent clearly indicated the Scalding Tarn with Deathrite Shaman, though. He should've exiled it, but he didn't. Did he exile something else? In the end he had enough for Treasure Cruise anyway (exiled 8 cards from his GY), but he could've just as easily not drawn another fetch. Again, that doesn't he mean he was cheating since cheating is by definition deliberate. Yeah he exiled his first fetch - a misty rainforest - from the DRS. Theoretically it shouldn't matter what land you target but you do in fact target a land, it's a shortcut in this specific matchup though since it's common knowledge that neither player has crucible, surgical, or loam (or another relevant card that I can't think of) that would make it relevant specifically which fetch gets exiled.
|
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2014 17:19
|
|
|
Bertoncini no longer should be given the benefit of the doubt, so maybe he wasn't trying to be shady but it's Bertoncini so it's probably okay to assume.
|
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2014 17:24
|
|
|
Hyper Crab Tank posted:His opponent clearly indicated the Scalding Tarn with Deathrite Shaman, though. He should've exiled it, but he didn't. Did he exile something else? In the end he had enough for Treasure Cruise anyway (exiled 8 cards from his GY), but he could've just as easily not drawn another fetch. Again, that doesn't he mean he was cheating since cheating is by definition deliberate. He didn't cheat here but with regards to that last sentence: being as successful a cheater as he is requires being a fantastic technical player. He never makes mistakes that will hurt him, but plenty of 'mistakes' that help him. If Magic is going to let a known cheater continue to play the game he at least does not ever deserve the benefit of the doubt: he's always deliberate.
|
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2014 17:27
|
|
|
Yeah, don't get me wrong. Bertoncini is a cheater. He is known to have cheated in the past. I'm just saying if it's accidental, it's not cheating.
|
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2014 18:07
|
|
|
Hyper Crab Tank posted:Yeah, don't get me wrong. Bertoncini is a cheater. He is known to have cheated in the past. I'm just saying if it's accidental, it's not cheating. You don't get the benefit of the doubt for beneficial accidents when it's well known that every play mistake you make is beneficial, though. I mean he's well known for only playing sloppy when it benefits him and he is a known cheater so it's really not helpful to defend an accident he makes, even if it actually is a genuine one.
|
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2014 18:20
|
|
|
Yeah, Treasure Cruise or a particular game state are red herrings--there are any number of reasons why it could give you an incremental advantage to "forget" to actually exile a card when your opponent Deathrites it, and it's exactly the sort of thing that someone who consistently makes minor cheats for value would do. If you cast four Brainstorms in a game, and three times you put back two cards but one time you "accidentally" put back one, that doesn't make it not a cheat.
|
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2014 18:22
|
|
|
mcmagic posted:But Daring Thief is soooooo slow. Are you just playing all creatures and not Lightning Bolt/Stoke? I had Bolt and Stoke in the deck, but I kind of used the one Bolt I had to take something out the turn before. Like I said, combination of luck and not being 100% proficient in the deck. It was a combination of misplaying and not having an answer when I probably should have.
|
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2014 18:42
|
|
|
The oracle text for Scornful Egotist has to be a horrible joke. Why would they type him as Human Wizard. I was secretly hoping for more Weird Wizards His flavor text is "Once I was human. Now I am far more."
|
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2014 18:59
|
|
|
Zoness posted:I was secretly hoping for more Weird Wizards But enough about Ken Nagle.
|
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2014 19:02
|
|
|
kingcobweb posted:But enough about Ken Nagle. Ken Nagle is the only designer who can compete with Mark Rosewater when it comes to making magic worse
|
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2014 19:03
|
|
|
Ken Nagle is the reification of the jokes we'd been making for years about designers trying to kill Magic.
|
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2014 19:05
|
|
|
If Ken Nagle didn't exist we would invent him.
|
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2014 19:08
|
|
|
I'm trying to dredge up something mean about Ken Nagle but I'm just running out of material.
|
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2014 19:09
|
|
|
Who designed Hexproof because that guy takes the cake
|
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2014 19:11
|
|
|
Equilibrium posted:Who designed Hexproof because that guy takes the cake Hexproof never made sense in a game where shroud already existed.
|
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2014 19:13
|
|
|
kingcobweb posted:I've stopped linking my writing in this thread, since I figure people know about it already. This article was great. I hope Maro and R&D in general reads it and rethinks their approach to design, because while Innistrad's straightforward design was the hook that brought me into Magic, the "old" modern-framed cards, especially those from Time Spiral block, and the opportunity to play with those cards in Modern are what enfranchised me.
|
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2014 19:17
|
|
|
kingcobweb posted:I've stopped linking my writing in this thread, since I figure people know about it already. Thanks for posting this, and personally I like that you used to post updates specifically for your review cycle of articles since I'm bad at bookmarking stuff/remembering to revisit. Been really enjoying these.
|
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2014 19:23
|
|
|
New cheating scandal, Trevor Humphries in his standard open and modern IQ matches at this weekend's SCG would thumb non-land permanents to the top of his opponents' decks so they'd be mana screwed. Edit: Watch him shuffle here, he looks at the bottom card of his opponent's deck, if it's a non-land, he puts it on top of the deck quickly, then when he mashes he doesn't change the top cards. Makes the other dude mulligan multiple times throughout the day. TheLawinator fucked around with this message at 19:30 on Oct 20, 2014 |
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2014 19:25
|
|
|
Aisar posted:This article was great. I hope Maro and R&D in general reads it and rethinks their approach to design, because while Innistrad's straightforward design was the hook that brought me into Magic, the "old" modern-framed cards, especially those from Time Spiral block, and the opportunity to play with those cards in Modern are what enfranchised me. There's no way MaRo is going to go by what is said, even if he's secretly happy that people liked TSP. He's really cemented on his current stance that whatever he's doing right now is the best thing and that's why he has things like the storm scale. Because, you know, storm is like, the hallmark example of a keyworded mechanic that shouldn't be reprinted, while Hexproof is something that needs to be looked at over and over again I think realistically Maro is just an old man who's out of creative juices but tries to bill his newer stuff as better than his older stuff in more subtle ways, which is fine, but I think what this means is it'll take something drastic to see something like Time Spiral again (basically it's not going to happen). Like, it's obvious he has a lot of energy that he channels in towards the game, in that he has that tumblr, his podcast, and whatever on top of his main job. That said, I have high hopes for the inevitable revisit dominaria block that exists to put allied color painlands in standard for whatever reason.
|
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2014 19:27
|
|
|
TheLawinator posted:New cheating scandal, Trevor Humphries in his standard open and modern IQ matches at this weekend's SCG would thumb non-land permanents to the top of his opponents' decks so they'd be mana screwed. That doesn't even make any sense.
|
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2014 19:27
|
|
|
Holy poo poo, watch the way this guy is shuffling his opponent's deck at the 1:00 minute mark, he's straight up stacking it. http://www.twitch.tv/scglive/c/5333218 - Riffle-shuffle the cards - Be careful not to break up the top 8-10 cards on the top of the deck - If the bottom card of the deck is a non-land card, flip it under the deck to put it on top. - Repeat End result: Opponent has to mulligan and play around mana screw both games, leading to your victory. Beaten, but you really need to know exactly what to look for to spot it, and once you do it's obvious. He's clearly practiced this. PhyrexianLibrarian fucked around with this message at 19:30 on Oct 20, 2014 |
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2014 19:28
|
|
|
I was just discussing this in Numot's stream, bastard's clever.
|
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2014 19:34
|
|
|
Zoness posted:There's no way MaRo is going to go by what is said, even if he's secretly happy that people liked TSP. He's really cemented on his current stance that whatever he's doing right now is the best thing and that's why he has things like the storm scale. I hoped it was obvious, but I'm not expecting an about-face or an overt rescission of his current policies. I'd be happy if he took a look at the article and stopped being so scared to experiment again. I love Khans, I think it's the best set since Innistrad, and I have a lot of hope for the rest of the block because of how pleased I am, but I know at least KTK was a fairly safe play. People wanted wedges, give them wedges, hit all the appropriate notes with charms and legendary creatures and so on, and trot out morph, now featuring modern design sensibilities. I want more exploration of the potential design space like what was found in TSP.
|
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2014 19:35
|
|
|
Toshimo posted:That doesn't even make any sense. Yes it does. He continuously puts nonlands from the bottom of the deck to the top, stacking the top with nonlands so that no hand will ever be good. Since players are no longer allowed to cut their deck after their opponent shuffles (I did this in a tournament months back without knowing the rules change and my opponent was like "what are you doing"), there's nothing that can be done unless you catch the actual cheating. And no one did.
|
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2014 19:36
|
|
|
PhyrexianLibrarian posted:Holy poo poo, watch the way this guy is shuffling his opponent's deck at the 1:00 minute mark, he's straight up stacking it. Yeah, just was coming in here to post this same thing. God its harrowing to watch once you see what's happening. All on camera
|
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2014 19:39
|
|
|
It's not the first time it's been done either. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Ak-TtwSs74 "James Buckingham has just won a match where he has taken seven mulligans" I mean, Naya Hexproof is inconsistent, but goddamn. Also, same shuffling pattern.
|
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2014 19:40
|
|
|
Everyone loves (???) magical Trevor, Coz' the tricks that he does, are ever so clever. Look at him now, disappearing a cow! Where is the cow heading right now? (topdeck, apparently)
|
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2014 19:46
|
|
|
All those judges just staring at him shuffling and not seeing it. The dual camera angles make it really obvious though.
|
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2014 19:56
|
|
|
Count Bleck posted:I was just discussing this in Numot's stream, bastard's clever. But what the hell is up with his music selection??? Numot is by far a better drafter than me but his playlist makes it hard to watch his streams sometimes.
|
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2014 19:58
|
|
|
PleasantDirge posted:But what the hell is up with his music selection??? Numot is by far a better drafter than me but his playlist makes it hard to watch his streams sometimes. You hating on The Eagles, buddy? I will fight you.
|
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2014 20:01
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 23, 2024 06:17 |
|
|
PleasantDirge posted:But what the hell is up with his music selection??? Numot is by far a better drafter than me but his playlist makes it hard to watch his streams sometimes. Other than the occasional Paramore I have found his taste in music FAR better than most twitch streamers.
|
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2014 20:08
|
|