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Mantis42 posted:And they call me the sick old man of Europe. Who controls southern France?
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Oct 22, 2014 05:41
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Arrhythmia posted:Who controls southern France? That's probably Occitania. Seriously, what the hell happened there? Did you and the US defeat every single European power or something?
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Oct 22, 2014 05:46
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 So I finally taught myself Victoria II, and I'm so pumped. It's 1898, and I'm Japan. Got that sweet, sweet African holding and a fuckload of oil. edit: holy gently caress tables Lord Windy posted:It looks like you missed the larger oil producing regions of Saudi Arabia and Indonesia. You want around where the UAE and Qatar are for the best oil. Nice piece of Africa though All in due time 
Autism fucked around with this message at 06:37 on Oct 22, 2014 |
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Oct 22, 2014 05:55
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It looks like you missed the larger oil producing regions of Saudi Arabia and Indonesia. You want around where the UAE and Qatar are for the best oil. Nice piece of Africa though
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Oct 22, 2014 06:23
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Noticing in HoI-3 lend leasing from another nation results in some really annoying play, as your available IC seems to shift (sometimes 30-40 IC) day to day as England shifts around its production and reinforcements and so on. Given that you have to set your production sliders at fixed values and not ratios, it means you might have to stop every day to futz with your IC. That on top of shifting reinforcement needs and to a lesser extent upgrade needs makes for an annoying stop-and-go experience on that. Also- is there any way to kick off the war between Japan and the US? I just hit 12/7/41 and that day did not live in infamy. Should I just tag over and just declare/send what I can to nearby American holdings? edit- actually at this point can I kick off a war between Russia and Japan at this point? I feel like I should just tag around and shake up the world in general... Fidel Cuckstro fucked around with this message at 07:46 on Oct 22, 2014 |
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Oct 22, 2014 07:36
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Kavak posted:That's probably Occitania. They mainly beat up each other. Germany was weak the entire game. They lost the brother's war to Austria early on and it took NGF forever to form. When it did it kept falling out of the Great Powers. Eventually it formed Germany around 1900 missing huge chunks. At some point the Nazis took over and they managed to steamroll France. I beat up Austria-Hungary and they collapsed. Poland and the Baltic Union are from me beating up Russia, which was also really weak. Like it hasn't been in the Great Powers for most of the late game (to be fair China and Japan reformed). Czechoslovakia is in China's sphere of influence somehow. NNM makes it annoying to take Greece as the Ottomans, since it automatically calls in Russia and Britain, even if its not allied or sphered by either. Which is kinda bullshit. I let Thessalonika return to the Greeks during a stacked crisis, but it rebelled and returned to me anyways. I liked to think its because I'm the only stable, progressive realm in the area.
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Oct 22, 2014 07:41
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My favorite part is that the Baltic states seem to be controlled by Austria
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Oct 22, 2014 09:43
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Randallteal posted:I only dipped my toe into DH, but I seem to remember, playing as Germany, all my divisions started at extremely low strength and I spent a lot of IC and manpower to get them up to full strength and then when I took the first level mobilization decision, it had some effect like +80 strength to all divisions, and my understanding was I'd basically just wasted my resources reinforcing them before that. Kaiserreich doesn't use the DH mobilization system. Russia just starts out with a really lovely army.
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Oct 22, 2014 12:42
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AMATEUR GAME DESIGN HOUR Re: making Victoria 3 work. The Victoria series has such potential to be an ungodly clusterfuck of features, that if you want it to be manageable you need to pick some gameplay system as the "primary" system, so that everything else in the game is defined by how it affects that system. CKII has this with the title system, and I believe that the best Victoria system to build the game around is the economy. If the economy is the core of the game, then, it needs to be both complex and player-comprehensible; so we're looking at a total redesign here. The core of the economy in Vic is production of commodities, so that's a good place to start. In the context of Vicky, goods achieve four things: you produce them to make money, and consume them to 1) keep the pops happy, 2) build industry, and 3) outfit armies. Within these four aspects of goods, you have almost the entirety of Vicky. The final aspect of the game is introduced by the next aspect of design: how the player interacts with the core system. Given that the economy is the core gameplay system, then the core gameplay loop will concern how the player interacts with it. And Vicky already gives us this: the way the player interacts with the economy is by setting government policies, tax rates, tariffs, etc., and their options for interacting with the economy are determined by their country's internal politics, the final core aspect of playing Vicky. With that, the last puzzle piece is in place and we have a holistic design. Produce goods to make money, buy goods to keep your people happy, build industry, and outfit your armies, and your options for doing all this are regulated by your internal politics. Diplomacy and warfare are both means to further your economic goals (historically: see the American civil war and the opium wars). A powerful economy drives the ambitions of your country.
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Oct 22, 2014 16:11
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Victoria 2's biggest problem is that it seems to be halfway between HOI and EU. The economy is basically a black box, political change is pretty arbitrary and doesn't really influences your play style, you get a mere half page of social reforms for the entire 19th century while your research tree is massive. Even the diplomacy mechanic is pretty rough and bare bone.
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Oct 22, 2014 16:49
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I hope they go back to the drawing board on V3. Throw out big chunks and redesign from scratch.
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Oct 22, 2014 16:54
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Fintilgin posted:I hope they go back to the drawing board on V3. Throw out big chunks and redesign from scratch. I'm gonna stick to "I hope they make a V3, at all."
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Oct 22, 2014 17:02
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Yeah, in Vicky 2 I just totally ignore the economy and let the AI do it for me. They need to come up with something more intuitive or at least fun to deal with, otherwise may as well scrap it altogether. Does anyone actually play the economy by hand? Just seems like a giant mess to deal with when I already have to worry about tech and diplomacy and war stuff. The production system they've shown off from HoI4 looks pretty cool, I bet they could do something similar in V3.PleasingFungus posted:I'm gonna stick to "I hope they make a V3, at all." Paradox said in a reddit AMA about 12 months ago that Vicky 3 and Rome 2 are both due before 2020. On that note, is Heart of Darkness worth picking up? I only have a House Divided.
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Oct 22, 2014 17:09
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Smoremaster posted:Yeah, in Vicky 2 I just totally ignore the economy and let the AI do it for me. They need to come up with something more intuitive or at least fun to deal with, otherwise may as well scrap it altogether. Does anyone actually play the economy by hand? Just seems like a giant mess to deal with when I already have to worry about tech and diplomacy and war stuff. The production system they've shown off from HoI4 looks pretty cool, I bet they could do something similar in V3. Heart of Darkness is loving awesome. Key Features posted:
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Oct 22, 2014 17:22
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Smoremaster posted:Yeah, in Vicky 2 I just totally ignore the economy and let the AI do it for me. They need to come up with something more intuitive or at least fun to deal with, otherwise may as well scrap it altogether. Does anyone actually play the economy by hand? Just seems like a giant mess to deal with when I already have to worry about tech and diplomacy and war stuff. The production system they've shown off from HoI4 looks pretty cool, I bet they could do something similar in V3. If you want to play any Paradox game released before CK2, you need all the expansions.
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Oct 22, 2014 17:22
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Smoremaster posted:Yeah, in Vicky 2 I just totally ignore the economy and let the AI do it for me. They need to come up with something more intuitive or at least fun to deal with, otherwise may as well scrap it altogether. Does anyone actually play the economy by hand? Just seems like a giant mess to deal with when I already have to worry about tech and diplomacy and war stuff. The production system they've shown off from HoI4 looks pretty cool, I bet they could do something similar in V3. I usually try to pick lassiez-faire parties so that I don't have to manually grok the economy, but I find that I spend most of my time thinking about the economy anyways - trying to figure out what's making my factories work, what's making them fail, and what I ought to do on a macro scale to fix that (the answer is usually either technology or more markets). I actually kinda enjoy the fact that the nuts and bolts of the economy will hum along without my personally overseeing everything and I can focus on international power plays to boost that economy instead.
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Oct 22, 2014 17:24
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Edit: ^said pretty much said what I love in Vicky better than I could have. Economy is pretty much too big to handle if you play any country that has any weight on international scale. Laissez Faire is mandatory if you are human. Still, one of my best games was managing my factories and resources as socialist Italy. I plan to do the same with Japan soon. I love setting my country to be a production juggernaut and securing raw material supply  I hope they make Vicky 3 and it still has pops, pop needs, and difficult annexations of terroritory (that isn't rightfully yours) with the exception of colonization, of course. EUIV was my favourite paradox game until every game was pretty much "grow big enough -> annex everything that neighbours you" without anything being capable of stopping you once the snowballing starts. Trogdos! fucked around with this message at 17:38 on Oct 22, 2014 |
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Oct 22, 2014 17:30
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What should my naval composition look like in DH: Kaiserreich? I'm gonna write a custom event to give me a decent tech team for whichever path I choose because right now I only have a crappy submarine doctrine tech guy and considering I am literally America I think I can give myself something a little bit better.
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Oct 22, 2014 18:13
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Tomn posted:I usually try to pick lassiez-faire parties so that I don't have to manually grok the economy, but I find that I spend most of my time thinking about the economy anyways - trying to figure out what's making my factories work, what's making them fail, and what I ought to do on a macro scale to fix that (the answer is usually either technology or more markets). I actually kinda enjoy the fact that the nuts and bolts of the economy will hum along without my personally overseeing everything and I can focus on international power plays to boost that economy instead. Yeah, I actually really like how the economy is a law unto itself, I just don't like how opaque it is. I mean, I don't need to be able to understand the beast whole and complete in a single glance, I just need to be able to figure out, a) what I need more of, b) what I'm producing too much of, and c), who I need to kill to solve those two problem. And it would be nice to have a price mechanism that was  actually a price mechanism . And be able to downsize factories without destroying them. Or, ooh, maybe factories should be able to sell capacity to each other. And be able to build multiple additional levels of capacity in parallel. And limiting the number factory types per state is such bullshit, augh. And also ARMY PLANS. But especially MOBILISATION PLANS. and don't even get me started on population growthandandand and podcat hoi is cool and all but kill johan eat his heart and start work on v3 immediately (usually I go interventionist, unless that thing happens where everyone wants to build car/radio/plane/etc factories while literally no one in the entire world is producing electric parts and you have to go in manually and unfuck that poo poo)
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Oct 22, 2014 18:26
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Chief Savage Man posted:What should my naval composition look like in DH: Kaiserreich? I'm gonna write a custom event to give me a decent tech team for whichever path I choose because right now I only have a crappy submarine doctrine tech guy and considering I am literally America I think I can give myself something a little bit better. Darkest Hour navies bear little resemblance to those in reality. In Darkest Hour, all fleets should number 30 ships and be commanded by a Grand Admiral. Here are some combinations that work: 30 submarines with torpedoes - will kill anything EXCEPT heavy cruisers you encounter on their own. Those are immune to subs due to a weird quirk of the rules. This fleet is very cheap and nasty to fight against. 15 carriers with 15 escorts - an escort is a heavy cruiser or smaller ship. The advantage of this fleet is that it will be able to engage any slower fleet from outside that fleet's range, and bomb them while taking no damage. Faster fleets will catch it though, and carriers have zero sub attack so will get massacred by submarines since they'll engage at the range of their escorts. 15 battleships with 15 escorts - good against anything it can catch, but most things will be faster, submarines will eat it alive, and carriers will bomb it from out of range. Usually only good if you start with lots of battleships (EG: UK) or if the enemy is nice enough to not field carriers or subs (EG: Italy) 30 heavy cruisers with torpedoes - kind of the ultimate fleet. Immune to submarines, fast enough to catch carriers, and such a fleet will even give a battleship-type fleet a run for its money.
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Oct 22, 2014 18:28
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I guess I'll go with the carriers because it seems most historical for being American. That cruisers one is too gamey. Thanks.
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Oct 22, 2014 18:33
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As long as you don't bring an old battleship along and completely gimp the entire fleet as a result (IE: Slow the fleet down to the point where gun ships catch you and put holes in your carriers) you should be fine. Never mix more than two types of ship in a fleet.
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Oct 22, 2014 18:41
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Turns out that CSA actually has a good carrier tech team but its start date is set to the same as it's end date. 
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Oct 22, 2014 19:04
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Chief Savage Man posted:Turns out that CSA actually has a good carrier tech team but its start date is set to the same as it's end date. I think that means that the tech team is activated via event.
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Oct 22, 2014 19:08
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DStecks posted:AMATEUR GAME DESIGN HOUR Re: making Victoria 3 work. I've always felt they could have three core mechanics: demographics, economics, and diplomacy. Have these three and their interactions with each other and the player be the core of the game. Everything else in Vicky really boils down to these things. They really need to completely rethink their colonization system as well. Large swathes of territory existing as nothing until colonized is silly.
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Oct 22, 2014 19:28
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I would go toward the side of Imperialism in that you always control the economy, but it's comprehensible enough so you can control it. One of the interesting mechanisms from a bloated and messy game(Pride of Nations) was that you had two kinds of cash: state funds and private capital, one of which was used to make military units and conduct diplomacy while the other is used to make economic improvements and do trade.
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Oct 22, 2014 19:38
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Minenfeld! posted:I've always felt they could have three core mechanics: demographics, economics, and diplomacy. Have these three and their interactions with each other and the player be the core of the game. Everything else in Vicky really boils down to these things. Economy and diplomacy already play pretty well in vicky 2 imo, especially with some quality of life tweaks (the influence system especially). I always wish there was a better way to have your demographics influence you. Like lets have some spanish american war type stuff where a war starts basically because a huge number of voters were yelling for it to.
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Oct 22, 2014 19:38
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The main thing I want out of V3 is more relevant, deeper, and generally better politics. They could leave everything else pretty much the same and update the graphics and I would be perfectly happy.
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Oct 22, 2014 20:37
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Puella Magissima posted:They could leave everything else pretty much the same and update the graphics and I would be perfectly happy. Much as I'd like to see V3, one of the issues with it is that I suspect Paradox is going to want to update Victoria to their post-CK2 design philosophy, and I have no idea how they would even begin tackling that without burning everything down and starting from scratch. Even then, they'll have a hell of a job before them.
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Oct 22, 2014 21:47
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I want to see more focus on characters in V3 (& all Paradox games). I want to have successful generals running for President or leading fascist coups. I want factories monopolized by families whose rich kids go into politics. I want every party led by a character who can be smeared or imprisoned or exiled or go on to rule the country.
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Oct 22, 2014 21:55
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Tomn posted:Much as I'd like to see V3, one of the issues with it is that I suspect Paradox is going to want to update Victoria to their post-CK2 design philosophy, and I have no idea how they would even begin tackling that without burning everything down and starting from scratch. Even then, they'll have a hell of a job before them. Yeah, they'll have a hell of a work to do. I just hope they leave economy as the most important part of the game. And POPs, everyone loves POPs.
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Oct 22, 2014 21:59
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Fintilgin posted:I want to see more focus on characters in V3 (& all Paradox games). I want to have successful generals running for President or leading fascist coups. I want factories monopolized by families whose rich kids go into politics. I want every party led by a character who can be smeared or imprisoned or exiled or go on to rule the country. Every time I suggest this everyone says "Give the intern a good tumble!" so there you go.
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Oct 22, 2014 22:08
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Tomn posted:Are there any events for reintegration if the US goes back to being democratic for whatever reason? Yeah, any independent country north of Mexico can apply for statehood given certain conditions, among them excellent relations with the US, a democratic government, both having the same slavery laws, and I believe sphering and great/secondary power status also both matter. I have occasionally seen the Maritime Union and Quebec join, and once Canada, but it's pretty rare. Some goon who now escapes me made a mod where every state and province of the USA, Canada, and Mexico could go independent. It'd be awesome to integrate those with NNM. I think V3 needs to have much clearer economic systems, and much more in the way of individuals with power and influence and ambitions. The arc of history may have been broadly similar, but individuals like Disraeli and Lord Palmerston played a big role in shaping it. As goons have said on these very pages. I have little to actually add to that part. I'd also personally think Vicky should start from either 1776 or 1789. Given the emphasis on the struggles of competing ideologies and the building of empires, events like the French or American revolution would seem to be the best place for a game to start. In addition I think there either need to be more pop types or for pop types to be able to change into others wholesale. It makes sense in certain places that the clergy would be responsible for education, but by the dawn of the 20th century in the most advanced countries, they'd have almost entirely changed to secular teachers unless explicit measures were taken to prevent such. You could have teachers be more effective educators by virtue of being explicitly organized for that role and having formal schooling institutions, whilst education was one of a number of roles clergy fulfilled, and often not the most important. Be nice to also see women, children, and the elderly represented, but that might be too much of a resource drain. There needs to be something more in that regard though.
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Oct 22, 2014 22:27
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Disco Infiva posted:Yeah, they'll have a hell of a work to do. I just hope they leave economy as the most important part of the game. And POPs, everyone loves POPs. POPs and the economy are the reasons I don't play more Vicky (a pitiful 53 hours in V2!). Both are massive, complex simulations that play themselves with or without input from the player. Sure, I can drill down to get all kinds of data but it's still very hard to manipulate anything with a clear understanding of the consequences. There's a degree of verisimilitude there, in that real-world social and economic systems are really complex and hard to manipulate, but for me it's not a very fun way to design a game.
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Oct 22, 2014 22:36
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Vivian Darkbloom posted:POPs and the economy are the reasons I don't play more Vicky (a pitiful 53 hours in V2!). Both are massive, complex simulations that play themselves with or without input from the player. Sure, I can drill down to get all kinds of data but it's still very hard to manipulate anything with a clear understanding of the consequences. There's a degree of verisimilitude there, in that real-world social and economic systems are really complex and hard to manipulate, but for me it's not a very fun way to design a game. True, they need a lot of trimming. I expect them to be overhauled in V3, because of Paradox new design philosophy. I just don't want them completely gone, you know.
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Oct 22, 2014 23:05
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I like to imagine that every time the Paradox dev team schedules a meeting to discuss how to design V3, they walk in all full of hope and optimism until they look at the old chart of V2's gameplay systems, and they just spend the entire meeting staring at that chart, with their heads sinking further and further down their hands.
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Oct 22, 2014 23:18
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Mister Adequate posted:In addition I think there either need to be more pop types or for pop types to be able to change into others wholesale. It makes sense in certain places that the clergy would be responsible for education, but by the dawn of the 20th century in the most advanced countries, they'd have almost entirely changed to secular teachers unless explicit measures were taken to prevent such. You could have teachers be more effective educators by virtue of being explicitly organized for that role and having formal schooling institutions, whilst education was one of a number of roles clergy fulfilled, and often not the most important. Mister Adequate posted:Be nice to also see women, children, and the elderly represented, but that might be too much of a resource drain. There needs to be something more in that regard though. Another thing dividing the population into age groups would do would be to make demographic transitions much more apparent, and give you a heads up. The French might for example realize that though their 20-30 segment balances nicely against Germany, their 0-10 segment is noticeably smaller, which could be a real problem in the future. This might create pressure from the military to deal with the issue before it's too late. That said, I'm also somehow in favor of simplifying pops in some fashion.
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Oct 22, 2014 23:35
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A Buttery Pastry posted:Also a stronger, but sensible assimilation system, to cut down on the number of pops the game has to keep track of. The system of assimilating according to the cores present in the province as well as the state culture, which I've suggested before, would work nicely I think. Let's cut down on the the number of POPs. A Buttery Pastry posted:Another thing dividing the population into age groups would do would be to make demographic transitions much more apparent, and give you a heads up. The French might for example realize that though their 20-30 segment balances nicely against Germany, their 0-10 segment is noticeably smaller, which could be a real problem in the future. This might create pressure from the military to deal with the issue before it's too late. THEN OCTUPLE THEM  though I guess EvW did it so maybe it is feasible? I guess one trick you could pull is cutting down on the number of provinces. I wouldn't cut in, say, India, but you could junk a third of Europe and not notice or care. (maybe need multiple RGOs per province to make that work.
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Oct 22, 2014 23:48
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Are there any good utilities for modding some of the starting conditions of HoI-3? Like something mostly that allows you to reset things to original settings quickly so I don't have to save off originals of province or country profiles?
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Oct 22, 2014 23:50
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There are lots of good posts here about Vic 3, but I also want a revamped combat system. I don't know how the gently caress to do it, but goddamn am I sick of seeing The Great War resolve by every nation involved sticking their hundreds of thousands of soldiers in a single province and waiting for the numbers to whittle down. I don't want full HoI, but mechanics to force long frontlines as well as to stress the importance of mobilisation and entrenchment would be nice.
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Oct 23, 2014 00:20
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