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Bad Moon posted:That three way fight scene ugh this show is so good. I thought it was gonna be Merlyn. Also why didn't Oliver recognize China White in S1 then?
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Oct 30, 2014 05:31
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That wasn't Ra's al Ghul, he didn't even say Detective.
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Oct 30, 2014 06:07
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Whizbang posted:That wasn't Ra's al Ghul, he didn't even say Detective. Ollie's not smart enough to be called Detective.
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Oct 30, 2014 06:19
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Drifter posted:edit: Arrow people can't get an even sorta looking Arab to play Ras? Come on, dudes. C'mon. Batman Begins this silliness. bah. What exactly did you think all Arabian people look like? 'cuuuuuuuuuse some of them look a lot like Matt Nable.
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Oct 30, 2014 06:34
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Boogaleeboo posted:What exactly did you think all Arabian people look like? 'cuuuuuuuuuse Drifter fucked around with this message at 06:47 on Oct 30, 2014 |
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Oct 30, 2014 06:44
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I'll chime in with Matt Nable being a weak link thusfar. I'm gonna place my faith in the producers, as they're two for two on big bads so far, but I'm not feeling the menace, presence, or authority you'd expect from R'as al loving Ghul. Nyssa is more intimidating than he is.
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Oct 30, 2014 06:46
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How can a guy who said like 3 words and have 5 seconds on screen, be a weak link. Don't be that guy
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Oct 30, 2014 06:48
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I think it's safe to assume that Ra's really did kill Sara and try to pin in on Merlyn, just because he thought she was beneath Nyssa, and I actually like that idea. It hearkens to some of comic Ra's's relationship with Talia.Boogaleeboo posted:What exactly did you think all Arabian people look like? 'cuuuuuuuuuse some of them look a lot like Matt Nable.  They had the opportunity to cast a person of color for this incredibly important role, and they just went with the same ol' safe ol' Englishy-sounding white dude. It's fine if you don't think them doing that is a big stinking deal, but don't be like "No but see, they were just being more tolerant!!" about it, 'cuz they weren't.
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Oct 30, 2014 06:59
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I thought that was a pretty boring episode as far as Arrow goes. The ending scene would have been cool if not for casting spoilers. Since we knew Ras was going to show up any day it just felt like a recap of the major points of the episode. Sara dead, Merlyn in Starling, Oliver protecting Merlyn which makes him an enemy of the league. Check check check.
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Oct 30, 2014 07:19
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Ollie protecting Merlyn is for real the dumbest loving plot beat.
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Oct 30, 2014 07:23
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Is it me or did they reuse the coffee shop from The Flash in this episode?
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Oct 30, 2014 07:50
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I enjoy Katrina Law as Nyssa, but I never really enjoy the episodes she's a major part of. I'm not even sure why this felt so odd, but it did. It might have something to do with how many stories this year are dependant on long-term payoffs. I'm still not sure what the hell Hong Kong promises to tell us (outside of some very vague 'I did bad things with Waller' musings). Thea holding secrets from Oliver is a nice change of pace, but is all about setting up the moment when they finally come relatively clean to each other. Laurel turning vigilante isn't something I outright hate, but it too demands a longer patient hand than we saw last year. And of course, Sara's murder is the clearest example of this delayed gratification storytelling model they're using this year. That's not to say the show is suddenly playing a longer game - just that the longer running elements seem to be playing a much stronger role this year.
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Oct 30, 2014 08:17
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Definitely a weak episode. That Hong Kong assassination was way too clean and easy. Like it didn't need a choreographed fight and chase, but stabbing a guy should be a bit more brutal, no? Would've been way more effective for Ollie's moral drama over it too. The HK scenes feel SO rushed and low budget, the island flashbacks used to have some atmosphere. Laurel is still the worst. More "darkness insiiiiide" dialogue not helping. But good point on her saying "no" to the "is killing Barrowman what your murderous, assassin sister would have wanted?" And she did look in surprisingly good shape at the end there. As an actual British person, Katrina Law's insane accent makes me twitch a little bit. She's a fun character though, shame she was basically retreading Laurel's arc of "but I really want to kill this person who was obviously not responsible for the murder!" Also:
Bruceski posted:That three-way fight was probably carefully choreographed and looked really neat. Too bad it involved three people in black suits against a dark background.  (Still not as bad as Barrowman and Arrowman's last fight, against completely black gravel at night though.)Drifter posted:Ollie protecting Merlyn is for real the dumbest loving plot beat.
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Oct 30, 2014 08:22
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BrianWilly posted:They had the opportunity to cast a person of color for this incredibly important role, and they just went with the same ol' safe ol' Englishy-sounding white dude. It's fine if you don't think them doing that is a big stinking deal, but don't be like "No but see, they were just being more tolerant!!" about it, 'cuz they weren't. That's not what I was doing, but to twist your words for *you* I'm glad you think it's important that a character whose most notable traits are being a terrorist and wanting to destroy western civilization should be played by someone that looks more generically Arab, and that this is a well thought out opinion that has absolutely no negative connotations at all.
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Oct 30, 2014 08:23
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It has loads of negative connotations that, strangely-enough, TV shows like Arrow don't seem to have any problems braving when we're talking about villainous henchmen and two-bit redshirts, like the guys who appeared to capture Sara last season, from the same exact league as Ra's. How much are we willing to bet that most of Ra's' attendants and minions will be something other than white? Even Katrina Law herself is biracial. But you see, now that we're talking about an important, iconic, fan-favorite villain with greater repercussions for the story, oh dear, that's when casting magically becomes sensitive to racial stigma. *shrug* Heard it all before.
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Oct 30, 2014 08:37
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Also the fact that League in this show has nothing to do with terrorism?
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Oct 30, 2014 08:46
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How are assassins not terrorists?
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Oct 30, 2014 08:56
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Sober posted:Is it me or did they reuse the coffee shop from The Flash in this episode? They did. Whizbang posted:How are assassins not terrorists? Because those are two different things?
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Oct 30, 2014 09:02
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BrianWilly posted:How much are we willing to bet that most of Ra's' attendants and minions will be something other than white? Like Malcolm and Sarah for instance. quote:*shrug* Heard it all before. I get it, it's important for you that everyone know that at the end of the day the mean killer that the upstanding white hero will kill is a darker skinned man that is absolutely nothing like the average Western viewer. You've made your point, and it's a good one. VagueRant posted:Also the fact that League in this show has nothing to do with terrorism? Then in this show Ra's is a white looking guy, and there isn't a problem. His daughter is half Asian. Of maskless members of the group we've seen, three are white, one is half Asian, and another was Middle Eastern. Merlyn was given an Arabic name too, maybe it's just a thing the group does. They are multicultural killers for hire. It's all very touching really.
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Oct 30, 2014 09:07
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The first member of the League we actually saw, who Sara killed, was Asian. Just to be clear. I assume you're as against Amanda Waller being black as you are against Ra's being depicted as Middle-Eastern. BrianWilly fucked around with this message at 09:13 on Oct 30, 2014 |
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Oct 30, 2014 09:11
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BrianWilly posted:I assume you're as against Amanda Waller being black as you are against Ra's being depicted as Middle-Eastern. I'm against her being thin and young, but it's the CW. It's nice to know you have problems with black people too though.
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Oct 30, 2014 09:24
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Sexy Waller is way better than fat Waller.
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Oct 30, 2014 09:27
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Boogaleeboo posted:I'm against her being thin and young, but it's the CW. It's nice to know you have problems with black people too though. And I decided to let that be response enough.
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Oct 30, 2014 09:29
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BrianWilly posted:I was thinking about how I should possibly respond to this bizarre statement when, purely on a whim, I decided to look at your rap sheet. No, you decided to make this comment first actually, had you actually looked at my rap sheet and walked away *then* you would have accomplished something. This is just petty sniping because you have nothing else left but can't actually make yourself just disengage from the conversation. It'd be like if I said "Well, looking at your rap sheet tells me that the last time you were interesting was 7 years ago" and then just stopped talking to you.
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Oct 30, 2014 09:38
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Rocksicles posted:Sexy Waller is way better than fat Waller. Classic Waller best Waller. 
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Oct 30, 2014 09:38
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VagueRant posted:That Hong Kong assassination was way too clean and easy. Like it didn't need a choreographed fight and chase, but stabbing a guy should be a bit more brutal, no? Would've been way more effective for Ollie's moral drama over it too. The HK scenes feel SO rushed and low budget, the island flashbacks used to have some atmosphere. I'm just saying at this point Oliver is probably not gonna go all PTSD in the middle of it icing someone.
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Oct 30, 2014 09:38
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Rocksicles posted:Sexy Waller is way better than fat Waller. No no, she's like Nick Fury, the real Amanda Waller is fat and the skinny one is just a decoy mouthpiece.
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Oct 30, 2014 09:38
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I'm against Amanda Waller being anyone besides CCH Pounder, who would have been a casting coup for this show.
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Oct 30, 2014 10:39
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Eddain posted:No no, she's like Nick Fury, the real Amanda Waller is Samuel L Jackson.!
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Oct 30, 2014 10:39
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Man Malcolm Merlyn being alive is going to be a great third-act reveal to Oliver this season. *reveals in 1st act* Oh Arrow... <3 my two guesses for things to happen this season that I will put in spoilers even though they're really guesses -It will turn out that Thea killed Sarah, for some reason but almost certainly on Malcolm's order -Laurel will kill Malcolm before season's end. Even if it's a fluke fight, it will legitimize her as Black Canary more and also set up a Laurel/Thea showdown that has great dramatic stakes for Oliver because the fact that he will do anything to protect both of them has been well established and in no way forced edit- and by fluke I mean there's probably a mi-season Merlyn/Assassins showdown where Malcolm gets hurt and Laurel kills him while he tries to hobble away. Fidel Cuckstro fucked around with this message at 11:31 on Oct 30, 2014 |
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Oct 30, 2014 11:21
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Last season was pretty entertaining in spite of Slade's incredibly stupid motivations and the utterly contrived Shado vs Sara 'choice' that Oliver had to make. But Oliver vowing to protect Merlyn at the cost of waging war with the League has managed to top that in stupidity and Nable doesn't seem nearly as charismatic as Manu Bennett to make up for the dumb storytelling. This is almost as ridiculous as Batman proving Joker innocent to save him from the death penalty in spite of all the crimes he committed.
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Oct 30, 2014 11:31
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AFoolAndHisMoney posted:Last season was pretty entertaining in spite of Slade's incredibly stupid motivations and the utterly contrived Shado vs Sara 'choice' that Oliver had to make. I don't know, I buy it. While I generally expect Arrow to also give me a character's reasoning in really blatant exposition, it's pretty clear to me that Oliver isn't going to kill Malcolm because he somehow doesn't want to kill Thea's dad. Even if he knows nothing about the fact that they've met, it makes some psychologically-convoluted sense that robbing Thea of another parent is something that would rip Oliver apart.
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Oct 30, 2014 11:34
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Crunk Abortion posted:I'm against Amanda Waller being anyone besides CCH Pounder, who would have been a casting coup for this show. Do to what I have to assume is either blackmail or truckloads of money, she's tied up with Sons of Anarchy. I will never understand how that terrible show has managed to draw in and then squander so much acting talent.
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Oct 30, 2014 11:35
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Slime Bro Helpdesk posted:I don't know, I buy it. While I generally expect Arrow to also give me a character's reasoning in really blatant exposition, it's pretty clear to me that Oliver isn't going to kill Malcolm because he somehow doesn't want to kill Thea's dad. Even if he knows nothing about the fact that they've met, it makes some psychologically-convoluted sense that robbing Thea of another parent is something that would rip Oliver apart. Yeah I have no problems with Oliver letting Merlyn go and am kind of surprise that people seem to be having this negative of a reaction to it. It's totally flimsy comic book logic, but I don't see what's so egregious about Oliver not wanting to break his vows in order to kill his sister's new-found father who, despite everything he's done in the past, does in fact love her and will do everything he can to protect her. That's a fairly believable and much more difficult decision than the "Hey he's a bad guy shoot him you dummy" scenario people are making it out to be. Then again we've apparently also made up our minds on how bad this Ra's is going to be based on his (admittedly awkward) introduction so maybe it's just going to be that type of week.
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Oct 30, 2014 11:42
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VDay posted:Yeah I have no problems with Oliver letting Merlyn go and am kind of surprise that people seem to be having this negative of a reaction to it. Then again we've apparently also made up our minds on how bad this Ra's is going to be based on his (admittedly awkward) introduction so maybe it's just going to be that type of week. I was a little disappointed it was neither some surprising callback nor a recognizable actor, but yeah I'm willing to wait until I see him in like 4 or 5 scenes before making a real call. edit- also, to some extent Oliver reformed himself from being a killer because of Tommy, so breaking that vow to kill his dad is another level of weird and cool pathos that I give the show credit for... Fidel Cuckstro fucked around with this message at 11:47 on Oct 30, 2014 |
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Oct 30, 2014 11:45
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Arrow won't kill Malcolm because he's becoming a real superhero and superheros don't kill people.
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Oct 30, 2014 11:55
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boom boom boom posted:Arrow won't kill Malcolm because he's becoming a real superhero and superheros don't kill people. Uh wow maybe you need to see a little movie called Man of Steel? Jeez...
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Oct 30, 2014 12:04
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But superheroes absolutely should turn criminals in to the authorities. Malcolm is all "Teehee I'm a ninja, I'll just escape any prison they throw me in" um not if they strap you into the electric chair, you won't. Didn't Moira face the death penalty for being merely complicit in Malcolm's undertaking? And if we don't trust Starling prisons to hold him, I'm sure Waller's not going to shed rivers of tears over legally executing someone if she got her hands on them. I like that Malcolm's around, but I really hope they won't resort to nonsensical Comic Book Recurring Villain Logic to keep him around. That's one of the main drawbacks of having a recurring villain in comic books.
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Oct 30, 2014 12:15
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VDay posted:Yeah I have no problems with Oliver letting Merlyn go and am kind of surprise that people seem to be having this negative of a reaction to it. It's totally flimsy comic book logic, but I don't see what's so egregious about Oliver not wanting to break his vows in order to kill his sister's new-found father who, despite everything he's done in the past, does in fact love her and will do everything he can to protect her. That's a fairly believable and much more difficult decision than the "Hey he's a bad guy shoot him you dummy" scenario people are making it out to be. Then again we've apparently also made up our minds on how bad this Ra's is going to be based on his (admittedly awkward) introduction so maybe it's just going to be that type of week.  He is a mass murderer. He killed hundreds of people in the glades including Tommy(  ). But sure he says he cares about Thea so clearly Oliver should let him go. I guess Oliver should just take him at his word since he clearly means it(obviously we as the viewer know better, but c'mon Oliver). Diggle was right, the world is better off without him. edit: or at least don't put him under your protection in case he is lying about not killing Sara. Let the league kill him. CAPTAIN CAPSLOCK fucked around with this message at 12:30 on Oct 30, 2014 |
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Oct 30, 2014 12:22
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BrianWilly posted:But superheroes absolutely should turn criminals in to the authorities. Malcolm is all "Teehee I'm a ninja, I'll just escape any prison they throw me in" um not if they strap you into the electric chair, you won't. Didn't Moira face the death penalty for being merely complicit in Malcolm's undertaking? And if we don't trust Starling prisons to hold him, I'm sure Waller's not going to shed rivers of tears over legally executing someone if she got her hands on them. Well I think there are two answers to that. One- there's the practical explanation Merlyn gives: he can escape any prison they try to hold him in while they wait to execute him- even Ollie's super jail which BTW I am so glad we haven't seen so far this season. Sure Waller and ARGUS could maybe execute him on-sight if they had him like Oliver did, but that assumes ARGUS wouldn't do something unexpected and beneficial to themselves- which they almost always do. Also, Arrow's been pretty good about not letting Oliver rely on semantic quibbles the way Batman lets Bruce Wayne do it. Oliver has some complicity in what the State or Waller would do to Merlyn or others and has to accept it. And it wasn't like Oliver's vow to not kill was "I won't kill because only the state has the authority to deal out such punishment." It was "I won't kill because killing is bad."
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Oct 30, 2014 12:29
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