|
Here comes amnesia, the most lazy and overused plot element in the history of video games. Sometimes it's used to just let the player discover a somewhat alien world which the character already interacted with. In other cases, it's a method lovely writers choose when the character should know something that would spoil the plot if revealed prematurely. Given what we know about the prologue, it's the latter. Also, I love how nonchalant everyone is about the fact that a thief disappeared for an entire year after a botched job and claims not to remember anything. Clearly there is nothing to worry at all, especially if you live in a medieval police state and you're a fence with contacts in the underworld. Garrett, I were sending you matchboxes with messages scrawled on the outside for the entire year! What happened to your companion - just kidding, I don't give a poo poo. Here's a high-profile job, because you're clearly up to the task. Hope you won't gently caress this up or bring a team of unlikeable guards into my doorstep. The encounter with the oldest goth in the City is even more hilarious, though. For a person who supposedly know everything about the City, she's very careful not to say anything meaningful that could clue the protagonist what the gently caress is going on. Garrett doesn't pry for answers, because why would he want to know more about the incident that killed his teammate and made him hallucinate for the entire year? Why is he completely apathetic about what happened to him? He watched a strange, clearly magical ritual that left him sick for an entire year and, just after this happened, the entire city is now suffering from a hallucinating plague that came out of nowhere. His teammate died, partially because of her stupidity, partially because her mentor stole her equipment in the middle of dangerous territory just to prove his point. No curiosity, no fear, no guilt. It's like if his predecessor just shrugged after losing his eye and spent an entire mission cutting purses.
|
#
?
Nov 24, 2014 22:48
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 13, 2024 04:25 |
|
|
I think it's less "amnesia" and more "Garret has been out for a year because of some weird spell gone wrong". There's nothing for him to remember, he basically stopped existing for a year.
|
|
#
?
Nov 24, 2014 22:57
|
|
|
Astus posted:I think it's less "amnesia" and more "Garret has been out for a year because of some weird spell gone wrong". There's nothing for him to remember, he basically stopped existing for a year. Yeah, it's not amnesia because Garrett can account for every moment that he was awake and active; he was simply unconscious for a full year after the accident and in the care of the beggar monarchy somewhere outside the city. Honestly, I've got to give the game a couple points for coming up with a fairly original reason for why the protagonist needs to be told what's going on, but then I also have to remove points for making the exposition lady such a stereotypical Mysterious and Wise Person Who Knows Everything about What's Going On But Won't Tell You a drat Thing. VVVVV I wanted to make that comment, but I couldn't remember what she was called in Dishonored. Bobbin Threadbare fucked around with this message at 23:22 on Nov 24, 2014 |
|
#
?
Nov 24, 2014 23:18
|
|
|
I loved the part about the plaques actually being made of chocolate. Sometimes I think Garret just needs to eat a Snickers bar. Continuing with the Dishonored parallels, Queen of Beggars seems to have a serious Granny Rags vibe.
|
|
#
?
Nov 24, 2014 23:19
|
|
|
The latest video made me want Cake. drat it.
|
|
#
?
Nov 24, 2014 23:24
|
|
|
BravestOfTheLamps posted:Chapter guest-written by David Cage I think it just makes them so sad and depressed that they kill themselves. GRIMDARK
|
|
#
?
Nov 24, 2014 23:25
|
|
|
Black Forest Gateaux is pretty grimdark. Mmm. Black Forest Gateux.
|
|
#
?
Nov 24, 2014 23:32
|
|
|
anilEhilated posted:IIRC it was Cragscleft prison. Yep. 'Shalegate' probably mixed up Shoalsgate (the police station in Thief 2, which had a jail) & Shalebridge. Basso was never canonically a fence prior to Thi4f, either. He's nicknamed 'the Boxman', a slang term for a safecracker. The thing I wonder about : Jenivere was Basso's wife - it's actually not a bad reference if the crow having the same name is meant to signify that she left him. [But I would not be surprised if it turns out she was transformed by a witch or something.]
|
|
#
?
Nov 24, 2014 23:50
|
|
|
I love this game's issue with loading models. It leads to the best screenshots.
|
|
#
?
Nov 25, 2014 00:37
|
|
|
OKAY, who left the door open and let the ring wraiths in?
|
|
#
?
Nov 25, 2014 00:40
|
|
|
So this is where the term "ghosting" comes from.
|
|
#
?
Nov 25, 2014 00:58
|
|
|
Kangra posted:Yep. 'Shalegate' probably mixed up Shoalsgate (the police station in Thief 2, which had a jail) & Shalebridge. Basso was never canonically a fence prior to Thi4f, either. He's nicknamed 'the Boxman', a slang term for a safecracker. Probably makes sense with his response to Garrett's comment about getting married when Garrett is told about the ring. I don't get why its a supposedly different universe from the original trilogy but at the same time there are all these callbacks to the original trilogy as well. It makes me think the game originally was meant to be a sequel to Deadly Shadows but then they decided to do a reboot without bothering to change what was already in the game.
|
|
#
?
Nov 25, 2014 01:15
|
|
|
I like how Garrett grumbles that he isn't a grave robber in the cutscene. I remember real Garret digging through the Bonehoard for a magic trumpet; however Not-Garrett is above the morally reprehensible act of grave robbing, but not above breaking and entering, stealing, assault, murder (when done 'right'), and voyeurism. This new Garrett is so insufferable. Bobbin can you record yourself getting caught and bludgeoned to death, simply so I can have the peace of mind that someone bashed Not-Garrett's skull in?
|
|
#
?
Nov 25, 2014 01:41
|
|
|
Rope arrows only working in specific places - ugh. I think everyone loves the rope arrows in Thief 1 and 2, and you can see how they worked there from Bobbin's recent Dark Mod video; they stick into any wooden surface, and can be reclaimed for later use. Any wooden surface. They made movement and navigation even more fun, interesting, emergent and player-driven. In Thief 2014 they can only be used in specifically defined places, and only once. If you see a beam with a rope wrapped around it (there was one with a rope arrow already in it at the start of the Foundry area), then get your rope arrows out; 'cause you're gonna need them. Basically they included rope arrows, but took away the actual reason people loved them in the first place. Now it's a case of "Got one of X resource? Okay, you can go through this 'locked door'." Jenivere... demoted from Basso's fiance in the original trilogy - a human character, with lines even - to a bird. Gives new meaning to the term "boid", given the odd choice of Basso's accent in Thief 2014. Gotta love the "nefarious deeds" guy - and all his identical brothers - hamming it up every time you go to buy something. Or not love, I guess; he's certainly no "whaddaya buyin'?" merchant. You know I don't think I ever donated money to get focus points; I just got them through the other means mentioned. I didn't use the focus abilities very much anyway, and I preferred to use the money on the gear upgrades. I didn't get any of the DLC that gives you more money (I don't like DLC that does that sort of thing), so money was somewhat tighter. I hate those grates that you use the wrench on; you can't just open one and then go through it as and when you want to. Activating one opens it, forces you to go through to the other side, and then closes it again. The game made me literally bump into and alert people multiple times with that. Overriding movement controls is awful and I hate it when games do it... and Thief 2014 does it a lot. I'd be really interested to hear the reasoning behind the third-person climbing sequences. They feel so out of place and disconnected from everything else, even in this game. They don't really add anything to the gameplay, either; as I recall there's no challenge from having to find your way, or getting timing right, or maintaining stealth, or anything, really. It's the standard AAA game 'follow the indicated path' routine. A whole lot of extra work on the devs' part, to basically no effect. It almost seems like there's cut content there somewhere and that's why it's so basic, but I don't really know why they'd try for something like that in a Thief game to begin with. I guess it could just be to mask streaming in content, like Bobbin said, but it seems like a lot of trouble to go to for that, when they're content to half-arse it everywhere else in the game. Re: the guard looking right at you but not seeing you - another thing ripped off from Dishonored (okay lots of games do this, but still): 'You can't see me 'cuz I'm leaning'. Of course, Dishonored - like the original Thief trilogy - had the courtesy of giving you dedicated leaning (and jumping) buttons. Thief 2014's context sensitive approach had me leaning when I didn't want to, and not able to lean when I did want to. Guess how I feel about how they handled surface noise levels in this game! (I don't like it.) In the original Thief trilogy it was something you had to think about all the time, and different surface types were used in interesting combinations. In Thief 2014 it's limited to small localised areas of water or broken glass, shining like christmas lights in the dark.
|
|
#
?
Nov 25, 2014 02:12
|
|
|
Cartheon posted:Bobbin can you record yourself getting caught and bludgeoned to death, simply so I can have the peace of mind that someone bashed Not-Garrett's skull in? In a perfect world, this is how Thi4f actually ends.
|
|
#
?
Nov 25, 2014 03:22
|
|
|
RickVoid posted:In a perfect world, this is how Thi4f actually ends. We get to the end of the game, save the city, and then Owl Creek Bridge our way back to the prologue and die in the magical mishap. Everything after that was a hallucination in the moment before death.
|
|
#
?
Nov 25, 2014 04:03
|
|
|
SystemLogoff posted:I love this game's issue with loading models. A more accurate representation of the nature of the main character in this game.
|
|
#
?
Nov 25, 2014 04:04
|
|
|
Bobbin, you mention having some of the DLC. Do you have the bank mission? It's probably the best mission in the game, its good enough that I'm angry that the entire game wasn't like it.
|
|
#
?
Nov 25, 2014 05:53
|
|
|
I couldn't tell from the videos, but is the sound engine and directional sound still as broken as it was at the games release?
|
|
#
?
Nov 25, 2014 06:06
|
|
|
insanityv2 posted:Bobbin, you mention having some of the DLC. Do you have the bank mission? I, um, pointed out the bank mission when I showed off the Stonemarket map. So yes, yes I have it. Hymirvetr posted:I couldn't tell from the videos, but is the sound engine and directional sound still as broken as it was at the games release? Maybe? The sound engine isn't as bad as I've heard, but it still gets funky. Like in the Chapter 1 video all it takes for a guard conversation to go from perfect clarity to noticeably muffled is to move a little bit to one side so there's a crate in the way. Bobbin Threadbare fucked around with this message at 06:09 on Nov 25, 2014 |
|
#
?
Nov 25, 2014 06:07
|
|
|
Bobbin Threadbare posted:I, um, pointed out the bank mission when I showed off the Stonemarket map. So yes, yes I have it. Sorry, must have missed it when you did so. Hymirvetr posted:I couldn't tell from the videos, but is the sound engine and directional sound still as broken as it was at the games release? The egregious parts have been fixed. The mixing problems (background banter/music overwhelming dialogue, guards sounding just as loud from the next room as they do right next to you, etc.) have been fixed, but the positional audio (ie the sound propagation), to my knowlege, has not been. It may be a limitation of the engine. insanityv2 fucked around with this message at 06:11 on Nov 25, 2014 |
|
#
?
Nov 25, 2014 06:09
|
|
|
Bobbin Threadbare posted:I, um, pointed out the bank mission when I showed off the Stonemarket map. So yes, yes I have it. relevant video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O9DSBfHEW6k (one minute in)
|
|
#
?
Nov 25, 2014 10:32
|
|
|
So, the very day this thread was linked in the Deus Ex LP thread, I started marathoning the previous three Thief LPs Bobbin did. Which I finished doing about two hours ago. Now I'm starting this one and I'm wondering if maybe I should have NOT marathoned them to prevent crushing disappointment. I mean, you haven't even looted 2,000 gold worth of loot yet, what kind of thief are you, New!Garret? 
|
|
#
?
Nov 25, 2014 13:00
|
|
|
He probably would have if he didn't compulsively collect anything more valuable than a silver goblet.
|
|
#
?
Nov 25, 2014 13:22
|
|
|
Tehan posted:He probably would have if he didn't compulsively collect anything more valuable than a silver goblet. "Oh wow! Another letter opener worth at least a jack of ale! I'M MADE!" Shei-kun posted:I started marathoning the previous three Thief LPs Bobbin did. Which I finished doing about two hours ago. Now I'm starting this one and I'm wondering if maybe I should have NOT marathoned them to prevent crushing disappointment. I'm saving them until after this is done, to wash the taste of failure from my mouth.
|
|
#
?
Nov 25, 2014 14:33
|
|
|
I love doing non-lethal runs of games as it's a fun change of pace and much closer to my real moral values. I still find it incredibly silly that bashing people in the head, gassing them, choking them out, etc as is standard practice in these games is considered non-lethal . Best case scenario for Garret is that half of his victims wake up at all. If you're hitting someone hard enough in the head to render them unconscious, you have a high chance of causing permanent brain damage or death.
Pvt.Scott fucked around with this message at 16:47 on Nov 25, 2014 |
|
#
?
Nov 25, 2014 15:51
|
|
|
You know I think dark messiah is the real thief 4. Thi4f. Thiaf. It had a rope bow and didn't restrict it's use, tons of hidden areas and garret's master thief outfit with his name on it. Well, you couldn't knock out people, only kill them but it was also a great swashbuckling simulator and had fun spells.
|
|
#
?
Nov 25, 2014 16:11
|
|
|
Ghostwoods posted:"Oh wow! Another letter opener worth at least a jack of ale! I'M MADE!" He would be, but then the call of the bizarre dusty museum will demand that he surrender his riches to it. NewGarret is apparently a compulsive hoarder in addition to a kleptomaniac.
|
|
#
?
Nov 25, 2014 16:58
|
|
|
Pvt.Scott posted:I love doing non-lethal runs of games as it's a fun change of pace and much closer to my real moral values. I still find it incredibly silly that bashing people in the head, gassing them, choking them out, etc as is standard practice in these games is considered non-lethal . Best case scenario for Garret is that half of his victims wake up at all. If you're hitting someone hard enough in the head to render them unconscious, you have a high chance of causing permanent brain damage or death. Two words: Deus Ex: Human Revolution. I think it's meant to be possible to do without touching anyone (except the bosses, of course), and in fact I managed to finish at least one of the last levels like that. It felt great, but also very unsettling. I think that's because I knew that I had sacrificed exploration for "morality". But it was organic. Whereas most other games would involve breaking them, or become broken in the process, or would feel broken (at least to me). Or it's simply impossible (like in the Thief series, I believe?).
|
|
#
?
Nov 25, 2014 18:05
|
|
|
supermikhail posted:Or it's simply impossible (like in the Thief series, I believe?). Still, the best example of perfectly incorporated ghostrunning of levels to me is Dishonored. The fact your character is essentially a god among men helps a lot; there's a reason most stealth games don't let you teleport and stop time: it'd be too drat fun.
|
|
#
?
Nov 25, 2014 18:12
|
|
|
Tehan posted:He probably would have if he didn't compulsively collect anything more valuable than a silver goblet. Don't forget the main goal of his mission in the Foundry is stealing a lovely ring which no one bothered to take off from its owner's corpse before cremation.
|
|
#
?
Nov 25, 2014 18:31
|
|
|
anilEhilated posted:Depends. It's usually fairly easy to sneak by/distract human guards. The problem is monsters. As was mentioned earlier in the thread, Splinter Cell: Chaos Theory. It doesn't flag it up like Dishonored does, and you have to reeeeaaally work at it in the Bathhouse level, but it's a 2005 game in which you can go the entire game with the only two traces being one dead assassination target and one captured one, thanks to some nigh-unparalleled level design and a tool that temporarily disables electronic devices. Still my favourite ever stealth game. EDIT: Actually, wait, it does flag it, the 100% mission rating depends on being nearly-ghost (that doesn't penalise you for shooting lights out or similar minor things). WFGuy fucked around with this message at 20:13 on Nov 25, 2014 |
|
#
?
Nov 25, 2014 20:11
|
|
|
I need to get that sometime. The only SC game I played was the first and I was rather unimpressed with that, way too many samey corridors and neither plot or your toys were interesting enough.
|
|
#
?
Nov 25, 2014 20:12
|
|
|
I had more fun with the stealth bits in the new Wolfenstein, to be honest. The stabbing-race when you got caught was hilarious.
|
|
#
?
Nov 25, 2014 22:00
|
|
|
This may be a dumb question, but I'm replaying Thief II and holy hell it's really really dark. Was it really this dark all along or is it because I'm using an oldish LCD now and was using a CRT back then? Basically should I turn gamma up and keep at it or wait until I get a LED monitor?
|
|
#
?
Nov 25, 2014 22:09
|
|
|
Mr. Fortitude posted:Probably makes sense with his response to Garrett's comment about getting married when Garrett is told about the ring. Going back a number of posts but you're completely right about this as far as I know...Thi4f was originally, like way back in its development, supposed to be some kind of straight-up sequel to the original franchise, but then somewhere along the way they decided to make it a reboot or reimagining or something.
|
|
#
?
Nov 25, 2014 22:22
|
|
|
The animations of him stealing purses and just... pretty much everything are kind of jarring for me. It comes off as too "hard" and if the person, you know, moved at all he'd have punched the guy or gal. It just feels kinda careless. With the route they went, I'm surprised you don't just use your arm to sweep everything on a table into a burlap sack.
|
|
#
?
Nov 25, 2014 22:24
|
|
|
anilEhilated posted:Depends. It's usually fairly easy to sneak by/distract human guards. The problem is monsters. Especially when you go and send Daud a message by taking everything he has under his nose At least in Dishonoured too you were tranquilizing people with mystery sleep arrows most of the time. The choking could be a little iffy as far as 'will it accidentally kill them' as I don't know enough about anatomy and nonlethal methods to suggest. Dropping people too hard could probably kill them though - I'm not sure how much the games take account for the body's hp after incapacitating, but it should matter.
|
|
#
?
Nov 25, 2014 22:58
|
|
|
This is about the best result you can get with gas without an anesthesiologist to administer carefully monitored and custom tailored doses to each and every person. Thanks, Russia!
|
|
#
?
Nov 25, 2014 23:16
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 13, 2024 04:25 |
|
|
PlaceholderPigeon posted:Dropping people too hard could probably kill them though - I'm not sure how much the games take account for the body's hp after incapacitating, but it should matter. Thief 1 and 2 tracked what happened to people after they were knocked out; they could drown, and could fall too far, I think. I can't remember for sure with Thief 3 and 4. Dishonoured definitely tracks it. Here's something I said back when playing the game for the first time: Past me posted:At the start of the mission I'm on now, I had a bit of an accident with the very first guy I knocked out. I was stashing him somewhere out of the way, and managed to drop him just a bit too far... onto his head... which exploded. (whooooops.) I felt pretty bad - though maybe I shouldn't have, considering who it was. And right at the start of the mission! But no, I said no reloading unless I died, so I carried on, feeling sort of dumb/guilty.
|
|
#
?
Nov 25, 2014 23:36
|
|