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Nordic model is poo poo sozzers
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Nov 30, 2014 10:44
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hiddenmovement posted:EDIT 2: I think it would be good if brothels were forced to publically declare they were brothels as well. There are dozens of them in South Melbourne but no one would know walking past them. Now I understand why the brothel owner wants to offer discretion but if gaming halls and pubs need to display their licences on the wall and have security guards prominently placed at the entrance to venues, I don't see why the sex industry should be any different.
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Nov 30, 2014 10:59
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T-1000 posted:Few of the businesses surrounding them would want to be known as "that coffee shop two doors down from the brothel" or whatever. True, but few businesses/homeowners would want to buy into an area if that nice terrace home next door is going to have gentleman callers at all hours of the day. I would argue that the have a right to know.
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Nov 30, 2014 11:32
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Anidav posted:Reachtel State QLD Poll (2012 changes) This is encouraging. I'm betting the next QLD parliament will be hung. Perhaps it'll take another swing of the axe to get rid of Can-do Campbell, because many people haven't forgotten Anna Bligh. Though I bloody hope the Greens get a look in this time.
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Nov 30, 2014 11:35
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Who of the following do you think would make the better Premier? Campbell Newman 40.2% Jeff Seeney 13.0%  Jarrod Bleijie12.6%
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Nov 30, 2014 11:38
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T-1000 posted:Another aspect of the Nordic model is that "Pimping, procuring and operating a brothel are also illegal" (according to wikipedia). So there are no operators or owners and the industry consists of a lot of sole traders. There are criticisms of these aspects of the model that I am not knowledgeable enough to enunciate. Interesting hiddenmovement posted:Police do exactly that with bars and nightclubs. They pop in as a group of 3-5, check the bouncers, make sure no one is acting up, and that the bar staff are following their obligations under their liquor licence. If they come across an above ground brothel that's misbehaving, it gets fined. Yeah but in a bar or nightclub the people in them aren't breaking any laws. Under the Nordic model they are. I can't see an issue with requiring the brothels to display their licences, maybe not externally but definitely at the entrance.
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Nov 30, 2014 11:46
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Anidav posted:Who of the following do you think would make the better Premier? This really is a case of the giant douche or the turd sandwich.
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Nov 30, 2014 12:05
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Orwellian Optimism posted:This is encouraging. I still don't understand what was so bad about Anna Bligh. She seemed to be a pretty good premier.
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Nov 30, 2014 12:21
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Mithranderp posted:I still don't understand what was so bad about Anna Bligh. She seemed to be a pretty good premier. The way I understand it late in her final term they moved to sell off some state assets and that soured the electorate against her? Of course they then voted in the Libs, so obviously Bligh's state assets sales weren't enough.
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Nov 30, 2014 12:23
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I believe she attempted to privatise some assets which pissed off everyone so much that QLD Labor Left faction publicly dis-endorsed her and her preferred premier rating sunk to like 26% Also the LNP promised to not privatise everything during the election and nowadays they're pulling some major spin arguing that leasing a government asset for 99 years to private business isn't privatization. People are seeing through that bullshit too.
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Nov 30, 2014 12:25
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MysticalMachineGun posted:The way I understand it late in her final term they moved to sell off some state assets and that soured the electorate against her? Of course they then voted in the Libs, so obviously Bligh's state assets sales weren't enough. Ohhh that's right. The whole rail thing. I still don't understand the magnitude of that swing. I put it down to Federal Labor being toxic at the time (being a female leader hurt Anna Bligh somewhat because JULIAR) and Campbell Newman's inexplicable popularity. But MAINLY because many voters in Queensland are eminently capable of voting against their own interests. See: the thousands of public servants who voted Liberal and went on to lose their job as a result.
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Nov 30, 2014 12:32
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Mithranderp posted:Ohhh that's right. The whole rail thing. But Can-do built tunnels! He's like Tones and roads, but underground too! And he has a catchy nick-name, despite looking like Crazy Frog.  
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Nov 30, 2014 12:39
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Why did you have to remind the world of the crazy frog
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Nov 30, 2014 12:41
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hiddenmovement posted:Why did you have to remind the world of the crazy frog Because the pain must be shared. Everytime I see Newman, that bloody song plays in my head. No more, it must end!
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Nov 30, 2014 12:52
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Mithranderp posted:I still don't understand what was so bad about Anna Bligh. She seemed to be a pretty good premier. She was a typical public servant, full of big buzzwords and incompetence. Newman seemed more practical, and he was riding on his goodwill from being Mayor. Plus the Courier Mail had decided that Bligh needed to go.
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Nov 30, 2014 13:11
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because queensland loves a fascist
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Nov 30, 2014 13:27
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Anidav posted:I believe she attempted to privatise some assets which pissed off everyone so much that QLD Labor Left faction publicly dis-endorsed her and her preferred premier rating sunk to like 26% Even many staunch Labor voters didn't like her. Mithranderp posted:Ohhh that's right. The whole rail thing. She wanted to privatize: - parts of Queensland Rail (coal transport, IIRC) - Brisbane Port Authority - QLD Motorways - Abbot Point Coal Terminal - something to do with forestry? Much of that was opposed even by her own party, and also by trade unions for hopefully obvious reasons. I think the tension within the party unnerved many people and that's why Can-Do got elected. There was also the perception that he was a very good and capable Lord Mayor (I don't know whether this is true as I did not live in Brisbane at the time, but certainly he was portrayed that way).
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Nov 30, 2014 13:34
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Orwellian Optimism posted:Even many staunch Labor voters didn't like her. And that, as you suggest is the reason why Can-Do got elected. There was also the perception that he was a very good and capable Lord Mayor (I don't know whether this is true as I did not live in Brisbane at the time, but certainly he was portrayed that way). His prized Clem 7 tunnel project was a flop, the company that adminstrates it has gone bankrupt twice I believe and it simply does not make nearly as much as the estimates they were publishing to push the project. Arguably, the only toll project that's been worthwhile in Brisbane is the Gateway Bridge, which is actually worth it. Clem 7 and even the Airlink aren't exactly great value for money. EDIT: Also, lol Go Between Bridge, what a waste.
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Nov 30, 2014 13:36
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http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3684877 I did a thing (new thread I guess)
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Nov 30, 2014 13:38
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CrazyTolradi posted:But Can-do built tunnels! He's like Tones and roads, but underground too! And he has a catchy nick-name, despite looking like Crazy Frog.  
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Nov 30, 2014 13:43
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CrazyTolradi posted:His prized Clem 7 tunnel project was a flop, the company that adminstrates it has gone bankrupt twice I believe and it simply does not make nearly as much as the estimates they were publishing to push the project. Ah, right, "competent" because he was building a bunch of poo poo. Now I understand. 
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Nov 30, 2014 13:47
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hiddenmovement posted:I would have said that many of the users of illegal drugs are addicts and couldnt give the first flying gently caress about getting done for possession (at least in the heat of the moment), but people buying sex are altogether more apprehensive and level headed, and far more likely to just go to a bar and try their luck buying drinks when threatened with arrest. The analogy with drugs is about our experience with prohibition with desirable goods/services. In hindsight I'll admit that it was needless because we have 6000 years of routine prohibition of prostitution to look at and wonder why if it didn't work then, why do we think it'll work this time Fruity Gordo posted:This is incoherent. quote:Not changing the law in regards to what traffickers do and not changing the law in a meningful way for those trafficked is supposed to make this stop? Splode posted:Can you explain why the Nordic system is bad? It continues the stigmatisation of Sex Work Splode posted:So I'm beginning with the position that the sex industry is bad and we'd like to eliminate it entirely if we could, as nobody has yet beaten the points raised by FG and by the speaker in 1921. You'd be the first to say that in this thread, FG actually advocated full legalisation in ideal circumstances hiddenmovement posted:
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Nov 30, 2014 14:30
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Ugh. Read this https://www.unodc.org/unodc/en/human-trafficking/what-is-human-trafficking.html
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Nov 30, 2014 15:01
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HEY I HAVE NO IDEA WHAT IM TALKING ABOUT IN ANY WAY SHAPE OR FORM BUT IM TOTALLY RIGHT YOU GUYS LETS HAVE A DEBATE Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
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Nov 30, 2014 15:05
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Fruity Gordo posted:Ugh. Read this https://www.unodc.org/unodc/en/human-trafficking/what-is-human-trafficking.html Why? Trafficking is bad, there is no debate there
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Nov 30, 2014 15:08
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Fruity Gordo posted:HEY I HAVE NO IDEA WHAT IM TALKING ABOUT IN ANY WAY SHAPE OR FORM BUT IM TOTALLY RIGHT YOU GUYS LETS HAVE A DEBATE If you say so Also an atrocious ad hom lightinwater fucked around with this message at 15:45 on Nov 30, 2014 |
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Nov 30, 2014 15:08
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lightinwater posted:Why? Trafficking is bad, there is no debate there You don't seem to know what it is
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Nov 30, 2014 15:10
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Fruity Gordo posted:You don't seem to know what it is Where do I make the wrong interpretation of it pray tell
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Nov 30, 2014 15:12
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lightinwater posted:The analogy with drugs is about our experience with prohibition with desirable goods/services. In hindsight I'll admit that it was needless because we have 6000 years of routine prohibition of prostitution to look at and wonder why if it didn't work then, why do we think it'll work this time Nordic model isn't prohibition. The sex industry is bad and exploitative. FG also said the Nordic model is a good stopgap. You are dumb. This thread is over, but please don't come to the new one TIA.
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Nov 30, 2014 15:33
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Splode posted:Nordic model isn't prohibition. If you make it illegal to buy something you have prohibited it. The sex industry is bad in ways that there are already illegal, the problem is enforcement If you think that the criminalisation of buying sex is not prohibition and you think I'M dumb i don't know what to say. But thanks for not letting me down on the ad hominen front
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Nov 30, 2014 15:41
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lightinwater posted:If you make it illegal to buy something you have prohibited it. Whatever dude, arguing with you is pointless. Prohibition in this context meant the specific policy of making the whole industry illegal, but if you want to change definitions on the fly to try and make me look silly, I honestly can't be bothered.
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Nov 30, 2014 15:48
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claiming that it isn't prohibition is honestly at best semantic and really dumb If you criminalise the purchase, you won't get brothels run in an above board manner, keeping themselves on a register and open for compliance inspections. Because if they do, their clientele will know they are liable to be arrested at any given time by the cops. You'll have the whole industry move to either underground illegal brothels run by organized crime, or solo/small group operators working independently. If you can give a reason as to why this wouldn't happen I'd love to hear it. Personally I don't see what you gain from the nordic model that you couldn't gain by strengthening penalties on johns who go to places other than licensed brothels currently. Gough Suppressant fucked around with this message at 16:01 on Nov 30, 2014 |
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Nov 30, 2014 15:54
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Splode posted:Whatever dude, arguing with you is pointless. Prohibition in this context meant the specific policy of making the whole industry illegal, but if you want to change definitions on the fly to try and make me look silly, I honestly can't be bothered. Thanks, Auspol bingo card completed! Being told you're stupid for disagreeing, stupid personal attacks, being accused of shifting the goal posts and being told that people couldn't be bothered anymore. I'm a bit sad I missed out on accusations of Trolling/Sockpuppeting and having the regulars tell people to stop engaging but there's always next time right? You're right, debate is over in D&D Auspol
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Nov 30, 2014 15:56
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Gough Suppressant posted:claiming that it isn't prohibition is honestly at best semantic and really dumb What you've described is the complete opposite of what has happened in jurisdictions that have implemented the Nordic Model. Does nobody read the links I post? loving hell.
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Nov 30, 2014 16:16
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http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3684877&pagenumber=1#lastpost November is over guys, go to the new thread.
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Nov 30, 2014 16:18
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You don't know that human trafficking occurs within states without crossing borders, you can't explain what the Nordic Model is, you dint know what the current legislation is, and you compare renting a human body to buying speed and never cleared up why you thought it was a not-revolting analogy. You're hitting a shitload of squares in fuckwit bingo m80, I'm not sure why you're being sanctimonious.
Fruity Gordo fucked around with this message at 16:22 on Nov 30, 2014 |
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Nov 30, 2014 16:19
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CrazyTolradi posted:http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3684877&pagenumber=1#lastpost No one actually wants to continue this conversation in the new thread tho
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Nov 30, 2014 16:25
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I read em and you're not strictly correct with the added caveat that Sweden is quite different than here. Sex work is down and trafficking to Sweden is probably down but it's hard to tell. There is still some which has been driven underground naturally and which may increase problems for those left. Being in the eurozone means that the law has also likely increased sex tourism.
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Nov 30, 2014 16:25
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Fruity Gordo posted:No one actually wants to continue this conversation in the new thread tho Running around in circles is no one's idea of a fun time.
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Nov 30, 2014 16:26
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Fruity Gordo posted:You don't know that human trafficking occurs within states without crossing borders, you can't explain what the Nordic Model is, you dint know what the current legislation is, and you compare renting a human body to buying speed and never cleared up why you thought it was a not-revolting analogy. You're hitting a shitload of squares in fuckwit bingo m80, I'm not sure why you're being sanctimonious. You have no evidence of my ignorance of either not knowing trafficking or what the Nordic model is. I wasn't really up to date with Australian sex work laws but that hardly matters when discussing the Nordic model vs legalisation. I've explained the drug reference and said it was needless and yet I still get needless personal attacks
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Nov 30, 2014 16:31
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