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Desert Bus posted:Sorry, but by not doing any research, you've gotten yourself into quite the pickle. On the upside you will probably get to explain death to your daughter and get that difficult conversation out of the way. I can't blame the guy entirely, he was put in a bad position to start. It's similar to how I got my first fish, it was in a centerpiece decoration at a table with a lighted candle on top. My parents did the best they could, but there wasn't much of an internet back then and we didn't have a lot of money. We thought we were doing okay with a 5 gallon tank and a filter, but it's incredibly obvious that we weren't doing the right thing in retrospect. I don't know if there was anything we could have done differently though. I type this while looking at my betta in his 40 breeder while wondering how ethical it is to keep them in anything much smaller.
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Nov 28, 2014 06:07
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I already hosed up with my betta despite him being in a 10g tank, I bought him for his beautiful metallic scales. Which are currently growing over his eyes. 
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Nov 28, 2014 06:12
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Dogwood Fleet posted:I can't blame the guy entirely, he was put in a bad position to start. It's similar to how I got my first fish, it was in a centerpiece decoration at a table with a lighted candle on top. My parents did the best they could, but there wasn't much of an internet back then and we didn't have a lot of money. We thought we were doing okay with a 5 gallon tank and a filter, but it's incredibly obvious that we weren't doing the right thing in retrospect. I don't know if there was anything we could have done differently though. He started by simply removing a fish from a bad situation and I will admit that he moved it to a slightly better one. It was getting three more of them without doing any research that is the main issue, as it took the slightly improved situation of the first fish and moved it to a worse situation than the bad situation it started in. Had he researched the initial fish post-acquisition he would have understood the requirements of keeping it healthy, and been able to say "I'm sorry daughter, but before your fishy friend can have any pals we must first get it a bigger home where they can all be happy." My first fish was a goldfish I won at the fair and put in a Goldfish bowl with the 2 my sisters had won. Even my father who kept a couple of 10g tanks "the right way" was doing things hideously wrong in retrospect. Even in this day and age of easy access to quality information, mistakes happen. However even after he did research after acquiring the 3 new fish he still asked if a 10g tank would be OK for a year. He said he was reading through the thread for information but it was going to take awhile, when every last bit of info he requires is in the OP. Fire Storm, get the fish into a bigger container ASAP, no matter if it's the 10g tank, a 5g bucket, a big Rubbermaid tub, whatever. Drop the filter and gravel from the 1.5g into it to keep any bacteria and provide at least some filtration. The main thing right now is to increase the water volume as much as possible. This will buy you some time to form a plan of attack. I apologize for being mean and rude and grumpy. The past couple of days have mostly consisted of mind numbing physical pain and then a post showed up about a topic that angers me (fish as prizes given away with no instruction). I have not made any of my points in a fully appropriate manner.
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Nov 28, 2014 07:01
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Dragonscale betta? My sympathies, I've heard horror stories.
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Nov 28, 2014 07:01
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SynthOrange posted:I already hosed up with my betta despite him being in a 10g tank, I bought him for his beautiful metallic scales. Which are currently growing over his eyes. Dragonscale Bettas are hybrids and all kinds of wonky things can happen when you breed even two very similar animals together. Any idea how common the issue you're having is?
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Nov 28, 2014 07:08
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Desert Bus posted:He started by simply removing a fish from a bad situation and I will admit that he moved it to a slightly better one. It was getting three more of them without doing any research that is the main issue, as it took the slightly improved situation of the first fish and moved it to a worse situation than the bad situation it started in. Had he researched the initial fish post-acquisition he would have understood the requirements of keeping it healthy, and been able to say "I'm sorry daughter, but before your fishy friend can have any pals we must first get it a bigger home where they can all be happy." Give the dude a break, man. How many people outside the "OMG MAH FISH!" hobby actually even suspect anything from a goldfish except cheap fish that's ok in a bowl? They're pretty much considered throwout fish and lots of people that get thrust into these situations just figure a few more won't hurt because they're pretty small. Seriously, educating people is the answer. Talking down to someone as if they're some incompetent boob is gonna get you nowhere.
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Nov 28, 2014 09:30
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The reality is, don't feel like you need to support goldfish for a lifetime just because some dumbass was giving them away and you didn't realize what their real lifecycle is. They are probably going to die soon no matter what you do because they are hard to care for and you are a beginner. When they do die, look into maybe a betta for your small tank if you want to stick with the hobby. (This is exactly what happened to me.) FuriousxGeorge fucked around with this message at 09:45 on Nov 28, 2014 |
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Nov 28, 2014 09:42
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Went out looking for some pool filter sand for substrate, the pool shop only had zeolite which looked scratchy and bullshit even though apparently its good for filters. The pool guy happened to be a cichlid fanatic though and gave me a business card for his tropical fish supplies guy (sadly he's 500km away). Looks like I'll be stuck with washing some play sand, if I can find anywhere that sells that. It was pretty cool to come across a fish guy and he says he's planning to get rid of the pool toys section in his shop and get a heap of pond equipment in which will be good, because nowhere else in town seems to have anything.
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Nov 28, 2014 09:55
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FuriousxGeorge posted:The reality is, don't feel like you need to support goldfish for a lifetime just because some dumbass was giving them away and you didn't realize what their real lifecycle is. They are probably going to die soon no matter what you do because they are hard to care for and you are a beginner. When they do die, look into maybe a betta for your small tank if you want to stick with the hobby. Fire Storm, you're looking at spending at least $100 for an obligation someone dumped on you. Unless you're really devoted to these particular fish and can buy it the things it needs right now, you're probably best off humanely euthanizing them while your daughter is at school or while she's asleep. They'll end up dying over the course of several days if you don't. Is it cruel? Yes, but so is letting them die a slow but certain death. You need to euthanize or buy a much larger tank, and most people don't want to suggest killing your fish outright. edit: Alternately you could take them back to the store. That would be less dramatic. Dogwood Fleet fucked around with this message at 10:28 on Nov 28, 2014 |
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Nov 28, 2014 10:15
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I was hoping to get some advice from more experienced people about my tank - particularly the amount of light and food I give it. I sort of fell into aquariums a few years ago when my water lilies started getting eaten by bugs, so I bought some goldfish to go in the pond and eat the bugs. It worked wonderfully and I had the healthiest lilies and the happiest fish until a major Aussie heatwave made the temperature of the pond too high for the fish. The ones I saved became indoor fish and everything grew from there. I now have a ~260 litre tank (~68 gallons google tells me) tank I keep at 25°C (77°F) but have been having alot of trouble with algae. It's much better than it was, but I still can't seem to get it right. Most of my info has come from talking with aquarium shop people (which I always take with a grain of salt, especially when the remedy involves expensive new purchases) and bits and pieces from the internet. The tank has:
3 Angel fish 3 Siamese algae eaters (did some good work at the start but now I think they mostly just eat the normal food) 1 Blue Rams (born with a broken swim bladder who I bought from the shop because no one else wanted him - named 'Sammy') 1 Glowlight (last of his school and getting near the end of his life, surprised he's still going) 4 Mystery Snails 2 Hoplosternum Thoracatum Catfish (have gotten extremely docile recently and just rest on the anubis leaves) and 1 Black Ghostknife which I strenuously deny is anything like a giant pickup truck. He's about 1 year old and I was lied to about his fully grown size when I bought him - I now know to research fish before buying them. Will upgrade to a bigger tank as he grows. This tank I bought second hand about a year ago, I'm trying to cover the gravel in plants and have 5.1 Anubis' in there. The plants on the bottom don't seem to have an algae problem, just the anubis'. Each night I've been feeding them 3 frozen blocks of either blood worms or brine shrimp (pictured at the end) and 6ml of Excel (the excel really helped the plants grow and put a big dent in the algae). I've just lowered this to 2 blocks after reading this thread. Also I sometimes feed them black worms which I breed in a large storage container. I'm not 100% sure on the wattage of the lights since they're second hand, but after inspection I'm pretty sure they're x2 30 watt bulbs timed to switch on for 11 hours a day. Is it a good idea to put some breaks in the schedule like the OP suggests? Apart from that I do a ~35% water change each weekend, and up the excel dosage a bit that day. Does anyone have any advice for how to keep my plants growing while not getting swamped with algae? It would be greatly appreciated  One of the female fighters.  The angel fish, glowlight, sammy in the bottom right, and a snail.  More snails and the male fighter - he got a bit fresh with the females while they were first getting acclimated and they gave his fins a haircut. The black ghost knife can sort of be seen in front of his little cave.  Algae on the leaves - plus what little moss I have left tied to the driftwood - after reading the thread I now have the understanding the excel is probably why it's not really growing.  More Algae issues  Sammy the disabled fish  One of the siamese algae eaters in a blur  the brand of food I'm feeding them along with a couple of guitar picks for size ref
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Nov 28, 2014 11:35
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SocketWrench posted:Give the dude a break, man. How many people outside the "OMG MAH FISH!" hobby actually even suspect anything from a goldfish except cheap fish that's ok in a bowl? They're pretty much considered throwout fish and lots of people that get thrust into these situations just figure a few more won't hurt because they're pretty small. Massive amounts of pain, lack of sleep, and annoyance that something living can be valued so lowly combined to turn me in the exact wrong person to get involved with the subject. I've apologized and I'm shutting the gently caress up and I meant to not comment anymore about it so I dunno why I'm responding to this. Shows how well my brain is functioning right now, I guess.
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Nov 28, 2014 12:05
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Jombo posted:I was hoping to get some advice from more experienced people about my tank - particularly the amount of light and food I give it. SAE's will not eat all algae. The Holy Trinity of FW community algae eaters is SAE/Bristlenose Pleco/Amano Shrimp. If your light bulbs are second hand they are probably contributing to the algae problem. Bulbs need to be replaced about once every 6 months to maintain the proper color spectrum. So swap your bulbs to new, and if that fails add new members to your algae clean-up crew.
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Nov 28, 2014 12:11
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Desert Bus posted:SAE's will not eat all algae. The Holy Trinity of FW community algae eaters is SAE/Bristlenose Pleco/Amano Shrimp. If your light bulbs are second hand they are probably contributing to the algae problem. Bulbs need to be replaced about once every 6 months to maintain the proper color spectrum. So swap your bulbs to new, and if that fails add new members to your algae clean-up crew. Awesome, thanks. I'll go look for new bulbs tomorrow, and my plan is to get a little colony of shrimp going after I figure out to build a safe haven for them.
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Nov 28, 2014 12:15
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Don't SAE get really fat and old and stop eating algae? Otos and amanos 4 lyfe! I put two otos in my tank last week and my glass has never been cleaner. The 6 amanos I have do great work on the plants and rocks, when they haven't scooped up a food pellet and legged it away while the gouramis stare at them, that is.
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Nov 28, 2014 12:20
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Jombo posted:Awesome, thanks. I'll go look for new bulbs tomorrow, and my plan is to get a little colony of shrimp going after I figure out to build a safe haven for them. Full grown Amano Shrimp might be big enough to not get eaten in your tank, but juvenile Amano Shrimp are faster and more skittish. Were I you, I'd just try to get a mix of sizes and hope. They make for expensive feeders.
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Nov 28, 2014 12:21
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Plavski posted:Don't SAE get really fat and old and stop eating algae? Oto's and amano's 4 lyfe! There are five or six different fish that you'll see labeled as "Siamese Algae Eater"/"Algae Eater"/"Flying Fox". One is the true SAE that loves algae, one is the true Flying Fox that sucks in general and if ID'd right is obviously not an SAE or false SAE, and the rest, the false SAE's, will eat some algae if they maybe have to. I can't find the pic I had that showed the differences between them all, but you're looking for a black line that extends into the tail fin and no gold line above the black. Really tiny ones can be hard to distinguish between true SAE and false SAE.
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Nov 28, 2014 12:35
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Yeah, my LFG mentioned that the Flying Fox gets quite aggressive as it gets older, which I'd always pegged as an SAE trait. He said that SAEs don't get that aggressive, but they do lose their appetite for algae once they mature though.
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Nov 28, 2014 13:27
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Before it decided to jump out of the one small hole by my HOB filter I had a roughly 6" 7 year old SAE. It was a lot calmer than younger ones, but as I didn't have much in the way of algae (still don't, yay!) I don't know if it slowed down on the algae eating. I'm growing three tiny ones out now and really hoping they're not false SAE's. Too small to tell at the moment. They look right, but they could still surprise me. Finding true SAE's has become difficult in the past couple of years in my area. I got these three from an awful LFS labeled as Flying Foxes. Those they obviously are not. They have the black line that extends through the tail fin, but are way too small to tell if they're going to get a gold line above the black. Even the good LFS by me sells false SAEs as SAEs. At least they don't confuse Flying Foxes and true/false SAEs. Annoying.
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Nov 28, 2014 13:41
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Stoca Zola posted:Went out looking for some pool filter sand for substrate, the pool shop only had zeolite which looked scratchy and bullshit even though apparently its good for filters. The pool guy happened to be a cichlid fanatic though and gave me a business card for his tropical fish supplies guy (sadly he's 500km away). Looks like I'll be stuck with washing some play sand, if I can find anywhere that sells that. It was pretty cool to come across a fish guy and he says he's planning to get rid of the pool toys section in his shop and get a heap of pond equipment in which will be good, because nowhere else in town seems to have anything. Any hardware store should be able to get it if they don't just carry some in stock.
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Nov 28, 2014 17:33
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Desert Bus posted:I apologize for being mean and rude and grumpy. Eh, it's a learning experience. As cruel as it may be, this is at least giving me knowledge, experience and hardware for being able to keep some nice fish down the road. In tank news, the 10 gallon didn't leak overnight, so now I have to brave Black Friday at Meijer for gravel and a filter.
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Nov 28, 2014 19:20
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Eifert Posting posted:I'm a huge fan of buildmyled I looked into them, but the prices were pretty high for my 36" tank. About 225 before stuff like a dimmer or shipping, etc. I ended up buying an Evo Quad 36", which ought to be plenty of light for me and it was only 125. No dimmer, but it does have two settings, so it's like a ghetto dimmer. The Dregs fucked around with this message at 02:40 on Nov 29, 2014 |
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Nov 29, 2014 02:37
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I found some playsand, $6 for 20kg. I don't think it's silica sand though, it looks like very fine shellgrit now that I've had a close look at it. It does feel very soft. What do you think? Is this still okay to use? I've been looking at other fish (harlequin rasboras) that are ok from pH 6-8 to go with the rosy barbs once the tank is ready to use so it isn't essential that my pH stays low, and my water supply seems to wander between 7.8-8 anyway. Although, I would like to get corys as well, that was the whole point of the sand really and if I remember most corys like the pH to be lower than 8. I'd be okay with Emerald Green corys or Seuss' corys but I don't like my chances of getting those here; there have only been peppered corys the last 3 times I checked the LFS. I've read about using a bag of peat in the filter to help lower pH but I always thought of those methods as being useful to keep it under 7, not drop it slightly from 8 and I don't want to start a runaway process of dissolving more and more of the sand. Oh that reminded me, I had thought of doing a vinegar test on the sand so I'll do that now.... and it's fizzing like crazy, so its definitely not an inert sand. I remembered also that I have a pH meter so I tested the water in the test tank that I set up with some of the sand and it gave a reading of 9(!) which made me check the tap water, which also came out as 9. I just did my daily water change in the rosys' tank without testing beforehand because the water has NEVER come out that high before, I tested their water and its 8.1 and they don't SEEM distressed, but should I tip some vinegar in there or something to try and drop it down a bit??
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Nov 29, 2014 10:15
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Put me down for another Goldfish horror story. My son and I walked through a pet store yesterday and he wanted to get a pet and so I thought, hey, this is a pretty good way to teach responsibility. The shop owner sold us a small fish bowl, conditioner, fish food, gravel and two comets fish for about $30 and we left with my son having the biggest smile on his face with his new friends and responsibilities and me thinking that I was doing some quality parenting. I've read through a lot of this thread and done some research online and man, I've hosed up and that shop owner was a complete dick. I'm pretty pissed that we got sold the fish without all the instructions but my son definitely loves his fish so we definitely want to keep it. I'm not sure where to go from here especially since I travel overseas for work and my partner works long hours. Ideally, I want to have everything set up so someone can feed the fish daily but if there's anything major to do like cleaning filters or such then, it's either not a difficult task to ask someone else to do or it can wait say a fortnight for when I come back. We've currently split the goldfish into two fish bowls so they have more space but I want to buy another tank. How big a tank do two goldfish need? I can't seem to find a definitely answer online. The OP recommends 20 Gallons (75L) but the RSPCA recommend 50L and OFAA (some Australian fish organisation) were recommend a minimum of 10L but other fish forums seem to recommend more. Would getting say a 150L fish tank be okay just for two comets? Does the type of filter matter (say internal or external)? Should I just get whatever the recommended filter to tank capacity or, since they're goldfish, do they need a bigger filter than what's recommended? Do the brands matter or are they all the same? Aside from a filter, is there anything else I need to buy? Are those plastic plants okay or are live plants (like anubias and java ferns) better? Are two goldfish okay by themselves or do I need to buy more fish or shrimp or whatever to keep them company? I'm currently in Australia where the summers can exceed 40°C but that shouldn't affect the fish as long as I keep the tank in a cool place right? Apologies for all the questions, I don't even like fish or expect to put so much money and work into this but it's turned into such a great project with my son and he's super thrilled to be doing all this stuff together. Every time we talk now he's making fish faces at me 
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Nov 29, 2014 14:45
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I'd go with the biggest tank you can reasonably house. A larger volume of water will be easier to maintain and the goldfish will eventually outgrow anything smaller. I would actually add some very tough, low-temp and low-light plants because they will help keep your water healthy. Anubias are a great choice because they can grow in very low light conditions and are tough enough that goldfish won't snack on them too badly. Get a good filter, too. Also, read up on cycling any new tank you get and start doing frequent water changes in those bowls until you can get something better set up. Good luck!
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Nov 29, 2014 15:27
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Whatever size tank you buy, get a filter that is rated for at least twice that amount. And have someone watch your son while he feeds the fish - overfeeding only makes dirty water a worse issue!
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Nov 30, 2014 05:50
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Yeah, I second getting the biggest tank you can. It'll make taking care of them all the more easier and give you and your son the chance to make something awesome with all the space. Plants are another good choice, they'll help keep the water clean. Make sure you do some reading though to find out what ones will work with goldfish since they love to eat green.
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Nov 30, 2014 06:04
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Also a bigger tank will handle temperature fluctuations better - but you'll still want one of these: https://www.aquariumproducts.com.au/catalogue_products.php?prodID=3509 My 260L tank is running close to 30 degrees the last couple of days
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Nov 30, 2014 10:36
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I got a reading of pH 9.4 tonight on my tap water before I did a water change, decided to experiment with vinegar to drop it down since it seems way too high, I don't want to skip a daily change and I don't have any other water source or pH dropper at hand. My rainwater tank is a rusted out poo poo heap so I am ruling out rainwater as I won't know what metals might have dissolved in it. Anyway a tiny bit of vinegar got it to 7.6 but I don't want to be messing around with the pH when I haven't even got a handle on ammonia/nitrite/nitrate yet. My sister has offered me use of her rainwater, which might help for the tiny tank that the fish are currently in but I do not relish this idea for water changes of the big new tank. I had no idea the tap water ph here fluctuated up so high, I feel at a bit of a loss for how to deal with it. I had figured RO water would only be needed for marine tanks but maybe that's an option here? The fish still seem okay, actually they've probably been less greedy for food than usual, fussier about which flakes they eat and which ones they spit out. They took some frozen stuff okay but I'll have to keep an eye on their poops in case they've got issues. As I don't know the cycle status of either tank I'm going to get a master test kit and try to get on top of the water quality situation. Ammonia doesn't seem to be available for cycling so I am continuing to use fish poop water and a little fish food in the new tank; the thought occurs that I should take out the activated charcoal parts of the filter and put something else in to let the water chemistry do its thing. Would this help? Forgot to mention, one of the cats found my tub of rinsed play sand and decided to help me out by adding his own ammonia source  can't decide whether to rinse it some more or throw it out.
Stoca Zola fucked around with this message at 18:29 on Nov 30, 2014 |
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Nov 30, 2014 18:22
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Stoca Zola posted:Forgot to mention, one of the cats found my tub of rinsed play sand and decided to help me out by adding his own ammonia source Cat piss is near impossible to get out of anything. And yeah, yank the charcoal. Technically it's not really needed unless there's some discoloration or smell to the water
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Nov 30, 2014 21:11
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Forgive me for not reading every page of this thread, as I am sure my question has been answered. My 20G freshwater tank pretty much consistently has small snails in it that are driving me insane. We keep the tank clean, change the filter regularly, all that good stuff. But every day we are scooping multiple snails off of the glass. This has been going on for months now. What's the best solution here? Are there any fish/shrimp that can be added to help take care of the snail population (eating the snails, or their eggs)? I feel bad comitting snail genocide almost every day.
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Dec 1, 2014 04:05
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Snails are pretty much a clean up crew for your tank's uneaten food. Any extra, they will eat so make sure you're not overfeeding. Anyway there's basically mechanical and biological control. Er, and chemical control as well I guess, but that will make your tank hostile to everything invertebrate and isnt generally recommended. Adding shrimp will help in that they're also scavengers and will compete with the snails for food, lowering the numbers your tank can sustain. Unless you've accidentally added macrobrachium shrimp, in which case it will eat the snails, then everything else in your tank. As for things that eat the snails, there's the assassin snail, which eats other snails, and loaches. Dwarf chain loaches are the smallest option. Khuli loaches dont eat snails though, so ignore them. Freshwater pufferfish also go for snails. There's also just baiting a jar with lettuce and removing all the snails on it every day til numbers are under control if you dont mind some work.
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Dec 1, 2014 04:22
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Feed your fish less, they can go a few days without food if need be. It'll take a while, but eventually the population won't be able to support itself without the food to do it. Could also use some boiled lettuce to draw them out over night and then just fish them out the next morn. Buying a fish just to eat them when you don't want it/can't stock it is a bad move.
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Dec 1, 2014 04:24
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Yup, forgot to add the usual caveat: Do your research on what your tank can support before adding fish!
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Dec 1, 2014 04:25
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Well I have been thinking about adding a fish or two lately anyways. We have the room, so that wouldn't be a problem. So just a piece of lettuce inside of something overnight? That should work (repeat each night until issue resolved?)? Local pet store has some ghost shrimp super cheap, and I kind of dig them. Would they work? Also, I'm terrified of getting a macrobrachium shrimp now after reading this thread. Any way to avoid them?
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Dec 1, 2014 04:42
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Tiny Lowtax posted:Well I have been thinking about adding a fish or two lately anyways. We have the room, so that wouldn't be a problem. Good, just do your research. Assassin snails dont care about schools, but loaches will be better off with company. Yup and yep. It'll be work though. No real way until they turn green and grow over 2 inches with huge pinchy arms. Otherwise they look indentical at younger stages to most other shrimp. Fortunately they're not trouble til that happens anyway.
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Dec 1, 2014 05:02
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SynthOrange posted:Good, just do your research. Assassin snails dont care about schools, but loaches will be better off with company. So when they grow 2", turn green, and grow pinchy arms, time to get rid of them. Got it. Thanks for the advice. Think I'll give the lettuce a try before I introduce anything new to the tank.
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Dec 1, 2014 05:07
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It feels so strange having the opposite problem as everyone else. I want snails, but my only tank is a pair of figure eight puffers.
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Dec 1, 2014 07:33
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Taking pictures of fish is hard!  Here's two of my rosy barbs in their temporary plant tank. The other half of the tank off to the right is much more clear of plants so they have an open space if they want or the plant zone to hide in if they want. Two of the three are yellow like the one on the right. I took out the charcoal filter trays from my trickle filter today, but without the tray the remaining sponge is very thin and floats away. I found that 6 scrubber sponges like these  will fit in the slot side by side so I rinsed some new ones in tank water and put them under the thin black sponge and weighted the whole lot down with some bionoods to see how it goes. I've seen people use these in DIY filters so I guess they might work ok. So now it looks like this:  The spraybar, if you could call it that, is pretty terrible. It's made up of little rectangular segments that push on to each other, so they can use the same part for different sized tanks. The flow doesn't reach to the end of the bar, it sags in the middle and it leaks at the joints. I can't complain too much, I can't tell if its good enough or not and it might be fine really. I've got what I think is enough substrate so once thats rinsed I can get that in and finalise plant placements. The LFS doesn't have master test kits so I'll have to buy one online so it'll be a wait before I can see what's going on with the water chemistry. I hope the plant tank will suffice in the meantime.
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Dec 1, 2014 11:38
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Tiny Lowtax posted:Well I have been thinking about adding a fish or two lately anyways. We have the room, so that wouldn't be a problem. 3-5 amazon puffers depending on your tank size are adorable and will cull that herd in a hurry Probably going to be throwing some in my 60g when I reestablish that one.
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Dec 1, 2014 14:07
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SkaAndScreenplays posted:3-5 amazon puffers depending on your tank size are adorable and will cull that herd in a hurry Do they play well with tropical fish? I have a non aggressive tank and would like to keep it that way. I do have one male beta as well.
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Dec 1, 2014 16:14
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