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Sperglord Actual posted:Churchill's grand scheme to turn a rearmed Wehrmacht against Stalin never came to pass, but the British pulled off a smaller version in Greece. More nuts was the American plan to put Japanese troops (likely the same IJA dudes that were there before) on the ground in the Korean war. Luckily they managed to refuse, cause that would have been a giagantic cluster gently caress.
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Nov 30, 2014 21:20
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Wibbleman posted:More nuts was the American plan to put Japanese troops (likely the same IJA dudes that were there before) on the ground in the Korean war. Luckily they managed to refuse, cause that would have been a giagantic cluster gently caress.  Where might I read more about this.
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Nov 30, 2014 21:58
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Sperglord Actual posted:Churchill's grand scheme to turn a rearmed Wehrmacht against Stalin never came to pass, but the British pulled off a smaller version in Greece. Greeat read, did not know this at all. Supremely hosed up and has parallels in my mind to the Warsaw Uprising.
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Nov 30, 2014 22:47
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Churchill was a complete oval office.
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Nov 30, 2014 23:04
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Wibbleman posted:More nuts was the American plan to put Japanese troops (likely the same IJA dudes that were there before) on the ground in the Korean war. Luckily they managed to refuse, cause that would have been a giagantic cluster gently caress. Weeeerrreeeee baaaaaaaack!
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Dec 1, 2014 00:07
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LostCosmonaut posted:
At Inchon I think some Japanese troops were used to drive landing craft etc. This uh... pissed more than a few senior marines off.
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Dec 1, 2014 00:14
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Hunterhr posted:At Inchon I think some Japanese troops were used to drive landing craft etc. This uh... pissed more than a few senior marines off. The days before the US gave a gently caress what marines thought. . . it truly was a golden age.
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Dec 1, 2014 01:46
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Blistex posted:The days before the US gave a gently caress what marines thought. . . it truly was a golden age. Actually, in 1945 IJA troops in the north China garrison were kept on duty until US Marines arrived to take over, in order hold off the People's Liberation Army until the Americans could airlift in enough Nationalist troops to ensure that Beijing and the rest of liberated China stayed in Chiang Kaishek's hands. This meant that the marines were often guarding the same installations right next to troops they'd been fighting tooth-and-nail right across the Pacific. Some of the IJA troops stayed behind too, apparently, and served as mercenaries under various Nationalist warlords during the ensuing Civil War...
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Dec 1, 2014 02:09
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Blistex posted:The days before the US gave a gently caress what marines thought. . . it truly was a golden age.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q7jOita0LjE I like this version best because of the perfect music selection.
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Dec 1, 2014 03:44
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zI-1Z_3FKgM
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Dec 1, 2014 04:31
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This reminds me, are there any other good books in the vein of "Wizards of Armageddon" on nuclear strategy?
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Dec 1, 2014 05:06
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What's that cut from?
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Dec 1, 2014 05:49
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Yes, it's like a lava lamp.
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PittTheElder posted:What's that cut from? Cuban Missile Crisis: Three Men Go to War
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Dec 1, 2014 06:15
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DrAlexanderTobacco posted:Churchill was a complete oval office. He was a complete bastard, the more I read about him, the more I think, "we wanted that in charge, what". Turns out though that when you're at war, the total bastards are who you need in charge. Re, every good general ever, they were all cunts you never want to meet.
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Dec 1, 2014 09:36
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wdarkk posted:This one. They flew the prototypes until 1944 but never did much of anything with it. drat. Even with a few small bombs. They could have bombed NYC in a one way trip. Or even something more harmful, like doped up paratroopers with MG42's parachuting into times square. B4Ctom1 fucked around with this message at 13:14 on Dec 1, 2014 |
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Dec 1, 2014 13:12
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Hexyflexy posted:He was a complete bastard, the more I read about him, the more I think, "we wanted that in charge, what". Turns out though that when you're at war, the total bastards are who you need in charge. Re, every good general ever, they were all cunts you never want to meet. Definitely needed the genius of a man who thought sending troops to Greece was a good idea 
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Dec 1, 2014 14:10
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B4Ctom1 posted:drat. Even with a few small bombs. They could have bombed NYC in a one way trip. Tabun or Sarin spray tanks would've killed the most people, and we wouldn't have seen that coming, either. There are three reasons Hitler never used nerve agents against the Allies: 1. A scientist named Otto Ambros evidently convinced him that there was no way the Allies hadn't produced our own nerve agents (he lied, basically) which we'd almost certainly retaliate with impunity - we hadn't, but that wouldn't have stopped us from using the poo poo we *did* have - gas masks only stop poo poo that can kill you via inhalation, mustard's a blister agent. It's actually a pretty interesting (if potentially untrue) story: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1292877/Did-Nazi-scientist-save-Britain-Hitlers-deadly-gas-killed-millions.html 2. Tabun and Sarin weren't put into full production until ~1942, and he didn't have a viable delivery system for it until the V-1 and V-2, which would've necessitated developing the world's first chemical warhead and cruise missile-viable dispersing system. 3. The 'reason' most people seem to like the most is that Hitler hated and feared chemical weapons because of his near-blinding by mustard gas in WW1, but the truth is probably more a combination of #1 and #2 - by the time they had usable stocks, they didn't have a viable delivery system. BIG HEADLINE fucked around with this message at 15:13 on Dec 1, 2014 |
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Dec 1, 2014 15:05
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BIG HEADLINE posted:Tabun or Sarin spray tanks would've killed the most people, and we wouldn't have seen that coming, either. There are three reasons Hitler never used nerve agents against the Allies: What this man said. The Japanese were mulling over using their biological weapons (think fleas with anthrax) to attack American cities. They could do it, too, using their I-400 class submarine carriers. They actually nixed the idea, as they thought such an attack would be "the first shot in a war against all humanity."
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Dec 1, 2014 15:21
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The idea that Hitler had some kind of intuitive hatred of using chemical weapons against people seems implausible if you think about it for more than a few seconds.
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Dec 1, 2014 15:27
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Nebakenezzer posted:What this man said. The Japanese were mulling over using their biological weapons (think fleas with anthrax) to attack American cities. They could do it, too, using their I-400 class submarine carriers. They actually nixed the idea, as they thought such an attack would be "the first shot in a war against all humanity." aaaaaaand then they got nuked anyway
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Dec 1, 2014 15:32
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Alchenar posted:The idea that Hitler had some kind of intuitive hatred of using chemical weapons against people seems implausible if you think about it for more than a few seconds. To be fair he didnt consider them people.
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Dec 1, 2014 15:32
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stealie72 posted:To be fair he didnt consider them people. Was about to post the same thing.
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Dec 1, 2014 15:55
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Hexyflexy posted:He was a complete bastard, the more I read about him, the more I think, "we wanted that in charge, what". Turns out though that when you're at war, the total bastards are who you need in charge. Re, every good general ever, they were all cunts you never want to meet. I don't know, I've heard that Jimmy Doolittle was a pretty chill guy. His memoirs are next on my to-read list, as I've just finished 30 seconds over Tokyo.
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Dec 1, 2014 16:30
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priznat posted:I guess they can save a lot on health care and old age pension when the life expectancy is poo poo. Protesters In Moscow Demand Explanation For Health Care Cuts  e: "Russian Demonstrators Take To Streets To Protest Regression To American-Style Healthcare" 
Hubis fucked around with this message at 17:08 on Dec 1, 2014 |
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Dec 1, 2014 16:59
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stealie72 posted:To be fair he didnt consider them people. He did, it's just that Hitler's attitude towards people in general was incredibly lovely, stratified, and contingent. Remember in the final days of the war his attitude towards the German people became 'they failed me so better they all die now'. Any argument that Hitler would have not done something because it would have resulted in 'suffering' is suspect.
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Dec 1, 2014 17:06
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Did the Soviets also have a decent stockpile of chemical weapons just prior to Barbarossa? I mean, the Nazis had no qualms gassing Soviet prisoners, so what was stopping them using it on the Eastern Front?
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Dec 1, 2014 17:27
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Mr Luxury Yacht posted:Did the Soviets also have a decent stockpile of chemical weapons just prior to Barbarossa? If you gas prisoners, it'll be quite a while before the enemy has solid proof of that and will retaliate. If you use chemical weapons on the front, the enemy will use them against you the next day.
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Dec 1, 2014 17:46
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Mr Luxury Yacht posted:Did the Soviets also have a decent stockpile of chemical weapons just prior to Barbarossa? Or for that matter why the Soviets didn't gas the Germans. It's come up before and I recall it was requested by certain Soviet military officials but was never granted. Most likely idea is both were too scared of the others relativity potential.
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Dec 1, 2014 17:56
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gfanikf posted:Or for that matter why the Soviets didn't gas the Germans. It's come up before and I recall it was requested by certain Soviet military officials but was never granted. Most likely idea is both were too scared of the others relativity potential. Gas is pretty picky. They put an awful lot of tons of the stuff down in World War the First, to not that great an effect. That was under fairly ideal conditions for wind/temp/humidity. Trying to do the same in sub-freezing temps with high winds, and you just wasted the shot. The amount of resources involved in manufacturing, transporting, guarding, and delivering chemicals is huge, and you could get better, more predictable results with putting that money and manpower into hucking more pig iron and RDX.
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Dec 1, 2014 18:00
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Slo-Tek posted:Gas is pretty picky. They put an awful lot of tons of the stuff down in World War the First, to not that great an effect. That was under fairly ideal conditions for wind/temp/humidity. Trying to do the same in sub-freezing temps with high winds, and you just wasted the shot. The amount of resources involved in manufacturing, transporting, guarding, and delivering chemicals is huge, and you could get better, more predictable results with putting that money and manpower into hucking more pig iron and RDX. Everything slo-tek just said is something I've read in historical accounts. I'll leave this picture to describe how dumb chemical weapons can be (think, wind). 
Hexyflexy fucked around with this message at 21:14 on Dec 1, 2014 |
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Dec 1, 2014 21:09
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Quoting so I can see.
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Dec 1, 2014 21:12
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Nebakenezzer posted:What this man said. The Japanese were mulling over using their biological weapons (think fleas with anthrax) to attack American cities. They could do it, too, using their I-400 class submarine carriers. They actually nixed the idea, as they thought such an attack would be "the first shot in a war against all humanity." There is no way this is true. First of all how the hell would you deploy loving fleas? Jesus that is stupid. "the first shot in a war against all humanity." Hold on let me just rape and murder as much of China as I possibly can and torture POWs and UNIT 541, or whatever the gently caress it is, but I draw the line at fleas. Sounds like someone post war was trying to make themselves look not completely evil.
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Dec 1, 2014 21:12
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The Pope posted:There is no way this is true. Quite possible. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Entomological_warfare#Japan
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Dec 1, 2014 21:21
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Hexyflexy posted:Everything slo-tek just said is something I've read in historical accounts. I'll leave this picture to describe how dumb chemical weapons can be (think, wind). Sure, if you're using chemical dispensers like the one shown in the photograph or chemical projectors like the Livens launcher. But if you've got chemical artillery shells, you aren't at the complete mercy of the wind. Gas is certainly an imperfect weapon and one with some unique deployment challenges, but it can be brutally effective. My great-grandfather got gassed in 1918 and it hosed him up for life, so I've no illusions about just how bad gas can be. The Pope posted:"the first shot in a war against all humanity." Hold on let me just rape and murder as much of China as I possibly can and torture POWs and UNIT 541, or whatever the gently caress it is, but I draw the line at fleas. Not all military policy is seldom made by one individual or group. Modern warfare requires an enormous amount of delegation and bureaucracy. Throw various inter-service rivalries (Japan.txt during WWII) and you get lots of cases where the right hand doesn't know that the left is going. With that said, I'd be curious to know the source of that quote. It does sound quite a bit like post-war CYA posturing.
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Dec 1, 2014 22:20
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I recall reading a tidbit about an American scientist making a discovery in synthesising fertilizer or some such and, as there was a war going on, publication of this breakthrough (and apparently all publications in chemistry) were held back until after the war. This complete silence convinced Hitler that we had found some kind of super gas and also played a part in his holding back the use of chemical weapons. Is there any truth to that?
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Dec 1, 2014 22:23
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The hardest part is getting the tiny uniforms on the fleas, everything else is easy.
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Dec 1, 2014 22:24
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That's interesting I never knew that literal bombs with fleas would actually work. Still though a sub with fleas to attack the US is a terrible idea for obvious reasons.
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Dec 1, 2014 22:29
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The Pope posted:That's interesting I never knew that literal bombs with fleas would actually work. Still though a sub with fleas to attack the US is a terrible idea for obvious reasons. You're talking about a military that launched 9,000 silk balloons into the jet stream to drop incendiary bombs on North America. WWII was a free-wheeling time for bonkers weapons programs.
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Dec 1, 2014 22:37
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Norwegian F-16s from QRA Bodø almost played bumber cars with a Mig. The russian breaches are super common now. For funsies, QRA Bodø is the one that has aTU95 in their patch with text "Bear Hunters". The video is in there. Sorry for moon language. http://www.iltasanomat.fi/ulkomaat/art-1288789081654.html
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Dec 1, 2014 22:37
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priznat posted:The hardest part is getting the tiny uniforms on the fleas, everything else is easy. 
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Dec 1, 2014 22:37
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