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Phlegmish posted:Hitler will be considered a great warlord in the 25th century. Isn't he regarded pretty highly as a warlord in parts of Asia already?
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Dec 7, 2014 00:44
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Slightly off-topic: Guy tried to sell specs for the Ford Class Aircraft carriers to an agent posing as Egyptian Intelligence: http://hamptonroads.com/2014/12/feds-man-tried-take-ford-carrier-specs-egypt quote:A civilian engineer working for the Navy was arrested Friday on charges that he tried to give schematics for the new $12.9 billion Gerald R. Ford aircraft carrier to the Egyptian government.
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Dec 7, 2014 01:05
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Phlegmish posted:Hitler will be considered a great warlord in the 25th century. I've thought this before, but lately... I don't know. Biggest difference between Hitler and everyone before him is that he lived at the dawn of the mass media era- almost everything he's said and done, as well as almost everything negative said about him, is recorded more closely and accurately than in any book. I think we'll look at historical figures from the 20th century onward differently than their ancient counterparts. It's easier to like Tamerlane et al because we never had video of his men burning and pillaging the countryside. To bring this back around: it makes ISIS's media strategy interesting in that while they might enjoy short term gains from it, in the very long view, it fucks them. Unless we end up in a world where ideologically-driven beheadings are awesome.
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Dec 7, 2014 01:06
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Christmas Present posted:It's easier to like Tamerlane et al because we never had video of his men burning and pillaging the countryside. To bring this back around: it makes ISIS's media strategy interesting in that while they might enjoy short term gains from it, in the very long view, it fucks them. Unless we end up in a world where ideologically-driven beheadings are awesome. We've always lived in such a world. Its all messaging, and ISIS has adopted a modern branding strategy, which is why they must be destroyed with an overwhelming use of force hitherfore reserved for use against state actors. They claim to be a state; let us make war upon them as if they were a state.
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Dec 7, 2014 01:14
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My Imaginary GF posted:We've always lived in such a world. Its all messaging, and ISIS has adopted a modern branding strategy, which is why they must be destroyed with an overwhelming use of force hitherfore reserved for use against state actors. Kinda like preemptive nuclear strikes on Iran will work, right? I love how you haven't learned anything about the past ten years of fighting a similar force in Afghanistan hasn't worked...
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Dec 7, 2014 01:15
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CommieGIR posted:Kinda like preemptive nuclear strikes on Iran will work, right? CommieGIR, you keep bringing up pre-emptive nuclear strikes against Iran in issues which do not concern Iranian nuclear capacity. I agree that nuclear strikes should be launched against ISIS, just as they should against Iran, as such strikes would be effective in achieving mission objectives in a less costly manner which proves effective at containing conflict. The difficulty in foreign policy is determining who gets to make the call on those strikes: Regional coalitions, or America?
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Dec 7, 2014 01:18
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Yeah, he's trolling.
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Dec 7, 2014 01:20
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So, goons knowledgeable on Egyptian stuff, what's the consensus on those leaked recordings? Are they genuine? Not that I'm surprised or anything if they're real, just the fact that someone would have leaked them. Any suspects?
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Dec 7, 2014 01:25
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My Imaginary GF posted:We've always lived in such a world. Its all messaging, and ISIS has adopted a modern branding strategy, which is why they must be destroyed with an overwhelming use of force hitherfore reserved for use against state actors. No I mean, it's my assertion that we haven't, that messaging echoes more strongly down the decades and centuries in the long view. And by long view, I should clarify that I mean 'long after all of us currently living are dead'. Was Stalin worse than most excessive and cruel of Roman Emperors, or is it that we have like ten-thousand times more information on who Stalin was and what he did? My Imaginary GF posted:The difficulty in foreign policy is determining who gets to make the call on those strikes: Regional coalitions, or America? see I think the difficulty would be shouldering the responsibility for the horrific slaying of thousands with a form of weapon that we've all agreed for seventy years is horrible and has the capacity to kill us all- I think in beep boop logic robot realpolitik mode, you're discounting the very strong negative symbolic significance of using a nuclear arsenal in wartime.
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Dec 7, 2014 01:26
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It`s a bit premature to break out the nuclear weapons. There are less messy ways to figth ISIS. The current strategy is working albeit very slowly. Why risk everything but lobbing WMD`s around? I don`t think anyone doubts that they are big threat that any level of force can possibly be justified. It just behooves the world to remeber that the side with the biggest guns does not always win. Wheter or not ISIS fucks themselves with their media campaign is a difficult question. There are always going to be people who like violence and sadism. There will also be a lot of sympathy for militant Islamic movements in the middle east in the future. So it`s easy to think that they will be romantizied and remebered fondly. Kind of like how americans have a very positive view of the IRA despite them being bona-fida terrorists. I would actully be suprised if they aren`t remebered fondly 20 to 30 years from now. Lot`s of people miss Stalin, Franco, Mao and Mussolini after all.
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Dec 7, 2014 02:31
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Dec 7, 2014 02:38
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Get SpaceX on the phone.
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Dec 7, 2014 02:41
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US spokespeople are really starting to lose their poo poo. See this "hot mic" incident after a briefing on Mubarak's acquittal. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=96WN0DhOL50
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Dec 7, 2014 02:43
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Baudolino posted:It`s a bit premature to break out the nuclear weapons. There are less messy ways to figth ISIS. The current strategy is working albeit very slowly. Why risk everything but lobbing WMD`s around? I don`t think anyone doubts that they are big threat that any level of force can possibly be justified. It just behooves the world to remeber that the side with the biggest guns does not always win. The problem with ISIS is that they're too overtly brutal, compared to pretty much all other bad guys of recent times. For example, Stalin didn't release film of the people being executed after show trials to the international media, Franco didn't even admit that his side bombed Guernica, and Mao didn't triumphantly advertise the Laogai system as the reintroduction of slavery. ISIS openly celebrates their own atrocities instead of denying them. Silver2195 fucked around with this message at 02:54 on Dec 7, 2014 |
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Dec 7, 2014 02:50
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Absurd Alhazred posted:US spokespeople are really starting to lose their poo poo. See this "hot mic" incident after a briefing on Mubarak's acquittal. Based on talk from people I trust morale at State isn't great. Kerry is at least trying but The White House is now effectively a closed kingdom. And getting some sort of meeting going on Egypt will probably get bumped from the Presidents agenda for a meeting with Valerie about the fabric samples for the Presidential library carpet.
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Dec 7, 2014 02:54
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J33uk posted:Based on talk from people I trust morale at State isn't great. Kerry is at least trying but The White House is now effectively a closed kingdom. And getting some sort of meeting going on Egypt will probably get bumped from the Presidents agenda for a meeting with Valerie about the fabric samples for the Presidential library carpet. What are the odds of Kerry quitting before the end of the term?
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Dec 7, 2014 02:56
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Absurd Alhazred posted:What are the odds of Kerry quitting before the end of the term? Quitting, or being shoved out? Obama's really a hermit king these days; who knows whether he's gone full King Lear yet. J33uk posted:Based on talk from people I trust morale at State isn't great. Kerry is at least trying but The White House is now effectively a closed kingdom. And getting some sort of meeting going on Egypt will probably get bumped from the Presidents agenda for a meeting with Valerie about the fabric samples for the Presidential library carpet. What you've heard jives with what I've heard from those inside the hermit kingdom. Also, don't talk about the library. Like seriously, an offhand joke about the library is enough to commit thousands of ground troops to securing "peace and stability." My Imaginary GF fucked around with this message at 02:59 on Dec 7, 2014 |
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Dec 7, 2014 02:57
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My Imaginary GF posted:Quitting, or being shoved out? Obama's really a hermit king these days; who knows whether he's gone full King Lear yet. I don't care if he יתפטר or יתפוטר.
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Dec 7, 2014 02:58
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Absurd Alhazred posted:What are the odds of Kerry quitting before the end of the term? Gotta think slim to none, but I'd have a lot more respect for him if he did. Those two have butted heads on Syria, I/P, and a ton of other things where Obama went with the politically convenient option.
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Dec 7, 2014 03:01
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Volkerball posted:Gotta think slim to none, but I'd have a lot more respect for him if he did. Those two have butted heads on Syria, I/P, and a ton of other things where Obama went with the politically convenient option. I could see a scenario where Kerry hangs on and tries to do as much good as he thinks he can in a toxic environment. Of course he may have his own plans for the future that could derail that. It's certainly interesting to watch an Adminstration go full tilt self destructive.
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Dec 7, 2014 03:09
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J33uk posted:Based on talk from people I trust morale at State isn't great. Kerry is at least trying but The White House is now effectively a closed kingdom. And getting some sort of meeting going on Egypt will probably get bumped from the Presidents agenda for a meeting with Valerie about the fabric samples for the Presidential library carpet. http://www.fedview.opm.gov/2014files/2014_Governmentwide_Management_Report.PDF seems like how engaged state department employees feel with their job is down (page 18 of the report) a few points as is job satisfaction (page 71), response rate for the survey was 50% which is above government average but there does not seem to be any correlation between response rate and and the other factors. doesn't seem like a total collapse in morale but a definite downward trend from hilldog's tenure.
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Dec 7, 2014 03:10
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J33uk posted:I could see a scenario where Kerry hangs on and tries to do as much good as he thinks he can in a toxic environment. Of course he may have his own plans for the future that could derail that. It's certainly interesting to watch an Adminstration go full tilt self destructive. There's a reason why I called for Obama to attempt tenuring his resignation, and it has little to do with his personality. Do you think Kerry is angling for Clinton's second? It'd certainly be a new lens through which to examine policy since he took over. Personally, I think Obama doesn't think neither Kerry nor his people are, else he'd have been Hagel'd by now. Then again, maybe he already has. Wonder whom King Abdullah visited, and in what order, during his recent visit.
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Dec 7, 2014 03:16
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kerry is either going to go into charitable work or lobbying after his tenure in the state department edit: probably sit on the board of a few random multi nationals too. Homura and Sickle fucked around with this message at 03:22 on Dec 7, 2014 |
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Dec 7, 2014 03:19
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Because Assad beat you.
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Dec 7, 2014 03:41
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Nonsense posted:Because Assad beat you. Pretty sure 
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Dec 7, 2014 10:12
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As far as Communist monuments goes, I think the Burjats are the most awesomest. The actually requested a big head of a somewhat pained looking Lenin (from Canada where there was some kind of exposition or whatever), and kept that in really good repair etc. Why? "We Burjats have a proud cultural tradition of presenting the heads of our enemies in our capital." 
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Dec 7, 2014 11:58
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Darkseid Is All
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Dec 7, 2014 16:20
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Absurd Alhazred posted:US spokespeople are really starting to lose their poo poo. See this "hot mic" incident after a briefing on Mubarak's acquittal. So what did she say? I couldn't hear it.
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Dec 7, 2014 16:50
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radical meme posted:So what did she say? I couldn't hear it. That Egypt one is ridiculous.
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Dec 7, 2014 17:19
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Reports in the Israeli media about an IDF airstrike on two targets near Damascus. http://www.jpost.com/Middle-East/Report-Israeli-airstrikes-strike-targets-in-Syria-near-Damascus-383902
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Dec 7, 2014 17:43
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Volkerball posted:That Egypt one is ridiculous. Because it is. Everyone in State knows that the Egyptian military-government is an unreliable partner on everything except for keeping the peace with Israel and sharing intel/security coordination on jihadist groups, but other than that, they're a bunch of loving petulant scam artists and don't even care. They'll swear up and down that the overthrow of Mubarak and election of Morsi were US conspiracies, then sulk and start making arms deals with the Russians when we tepidly withhold delivery of a few F-16s and AH-64s because maybe we don't like the idea of a military coup. They'll destroy the ability to operate of civil society and human rights NGOs because of FOREIGN FUNDING, but then the same government sticks its hand out and yells GIMME GIMME GIMME each time a fiscal year begins in the US. If it were up to me, I'd cut off all aid to Egypt and let the military continue the only campaign it's been good at since 1973- running the country into the ground and turning it into another backwards shithole while they crow about being the saviors of the nation and lining their pockets. I do realize that geopolitics dictates another strategy, but yeah, Jen Psaki is right.
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Dec 7, 2014 17:43
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emanresu tnuocca posted:Reports in the Israeli media about an IDF airstrike on two targets near Damascus. Yeah, looks like they probably hit a small agricultural airport at Dimas, possibly some military targets within Damascus International and *possibly* a site in Quneitra. People are speculating it was either aimed at antiaircraft weapons being transferred to Hezbollah and/or related spare parts. Worth noting the S300 AA system Russia once planned to send to Syria has still not been, and probably won't be, delivered.
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Dec 7, 2014 17:49
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Phlegmish posted:Hitler will be considered a great warlord in the 25th century. People say this a lot and I don't see why. History tends to excuse the great warlords who left some lasting legacy or empire while overlooking the massive human costs of it. Hitler was a huge fuckup who did nothing of the sort and his successes were transient. Let's assume you were born in 1933 the day the Fuhrer came to power: Germany was conquered and burning, and Hitler dead along with his all close associates and his ideology by the time you hit puberty. His only lasting accomplishments were the Autobahn and rocketry tech (that he did nothing useful with anyway), and his only cultural legacy is being a byword for evil - even his various monuments were torn down as ugly and unwanted. Most of the positive effects of his rule came from the rest of the world pulling together to defeat him. Napoleon set Europe on fire but, for better or for worse, he left the Napoleonic Code, Egyptology, nationalism and the idea of exporting revolution, and Bonapartism remained a relevant ideology for most of the 19th century. Stalin was a psychopathic butcher, but he industrialized the USSR, won WWII, made his country into a global superpower followed by half the world, so there are still people nostalgic for him despite the brutal atrocities. Even the goddamn Mongols are at least credited with eventually bringing about stability and commerce between Europe and Asia once they were done slaughtering. Hitler is different: he lost his big war, was reviled as a monster from that moment on, Nazism became a synonym for everything wrong with mankind, and future historians will find no sympathetic accounts except from obvious sycophants. I'm sure revisionists who try to rehabilitate Hitler will cause less of a furore in a couple hundred years, but I can't see the mainstream view becoming anything other than "he was an incompetent rear end in a top hat who achieved nothing but wanton destruction". ...Which is why it's really important that ISIS be stopped. I can't bear the thought that eventually history will say "well they did nasty things in the early days, but eventually things settled down once the Caliphate was established in 2034, and they did put a halt to the constant bickering (by killing people until they stopped) so there's that, can't make an omelette etc". And on the off chance they're actually successful, it probably will.
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Dec 7, 2014 19:18
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Guildencrantz posted:People say this a lot and I don't see why. History tends to excuse the great warlords who left some lasting legacy or empire while overlooking the massive human costs of it. Hitler was a huge fuckup who did nothing of the sort and his successes were transient. Let's assume you were born in 1933 the day the Fuhrer came to power: Germany was conquered and burning, and Hitler dead along with his all close associates and his ideology by the time you hit puberty. His only lasting accomplishments were the Autobahn and rocketry tech (that he did nothing useful with anyway), and his only cultural legacy is being a byword for evil - even his various monuments were torn down as ugly and unwanted. Most of the positive effects of his rule came from the rest of the world pulling together to defeat him. Isis will probably be considered a example of where political and religious extremism can lead a people, and be compared to the Khmer Rouge. They have no chance.
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Dec 7, 2014 19:35
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emanresu tnuocca posted:Reports in the Israeli media about an IDF airstrike on two targets near Damascus. Yeah, I saw this in the news today, too. Apparently Israel is still eager to make Assad regret he ever tried to fight the Syrian rebels with Hizbollah. 
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Dec 7, 2014 19:51
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So, this happened.quote:UNITED NATIONS: UN General Assembly overwhelmingly approved a resolution on Tuesday calling on Israel to renounce possession of nuclear weapons and put its nuclear facilities under international oversight.
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Dec 7, 2014 20:54
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They should do one for KSA next.
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Dec 7, 2014 21:03
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Libluini posted:Yeah, I saw this in the news today, too. Apparently Israel is still eager to make Assad regret he ever tried to fight the Syrian rebels with Hizbollah. That, or Bibi is getting freaked out by election polls and he's trying to stir some poo poo up before march so he can scare the Israeli voting public nice and good.
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Dec 7, 2014 21:04
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For what sane idea would Israel renounce nukes?
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Dec 7, 2014 21:17
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TheImmigrant posted:For what sane idea would Israel renounce nukes? 'Renounce what now? I'm sorry I don't know what you are talking about.'
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Dec 7, 2014 21:34
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