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Space Whale posted:Lying works very well, since they can't easily check on it. Just make sure to write down your fake salary history so nobody catches you lying. a recruiter i talked to the other day was like 'okay because we had one employer ask to see a recruits previous W-2 and it turns out he was lying' as some sort of thinly-veiled threat to me saying "i think you're lying about your salary" Which cool, congrats on your spidey sense. But if an employer agrees to pay me $x to do a job but won't if i used to make $x-20k instead of $x-10k, then gently caress that employer. That recruiter threw up so many red flags I don't talk to him anymore.
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Dec 5, 2014 21:25
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Is an email interview with a 30-essay question type questionnaire, a phone interview, weekend-long programming challenge, a full day of interviewing + pair programming excessive? I'm about to put my foot down after this weekend programming challenge, since I've already met the loving ceo
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Dec 5, 2014 21:27
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sailboat posted:Have at it. You didn't remove the mailto link to your actual email address
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Dec 5, 2014 21:31
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Careful Drums posted:Is an email interview with a 30-essay question type questionnaire, a phone interview, weekend-long programming challenge, a full day of interviewing + pair programming excessive? I'm about to put my foot down after this weekend programming challenge, since I've already met the loving ceo 30 essay questions? You sure you don't mean "short answer questions"? If so, that's a good lot of stuff but I wouldn't say it's entirely out of the question. 30 short-answer style questions seems kind of useless in the face of all the other stuff (what can't they just ask you in the interviews?) though.
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Dec 5, 2014 21:34
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No Safe Word posted:30 essay questions? You sure you don't mean "short answer questions"? If so, that's a good lot of stuff but I wouldn't say it's entirely out of the question. 30 short-answer style questions seems kind of useless in the face of all the other stuff (what can't they just ask you in the interviews?) though. Yeah, short-answer is more correct. It was all lofty questions all of which got repeated in the phone interview. It took me about two hours to finish. I forgot to mention the e-mail also asked for a code-sample, so they're going to see my code not once but three times over the course of at least 24 hours of my life.
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Dec 5, 2014 21:37
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Careful Drums posted:a recruiter i talked to the other day was like 'okay because we had one employer ask to see a recruits previous W-2 and it turns out he was lying' as some sort of thinly-veiled threat to me saying "i think you're lying about your salary" Which cool, congrats on your spidey sense. But if an employer agrees to pay me $x to do a job but won't if i used to make $x-20k instead of $x-10k, then gently caress that employer. LOL Once you reach the front of the curve you don't need to lie anymore. Just keep that in mind. More than that, though, anyone so whipped they'd give up a w2 is a moron.
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Dec 5, 2014 21:39
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Space Whale posted:More than that, though, anyone so whipped they'd give up a w2 is a moron.
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Dec 5, 2014 21:41
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Space Whale posted:LOL Yeah. I don't have a good way of knowing if I'm really at the end of the curve so I throw out lofty numbers including bonuses :/
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Dec 5, 2014 22:02
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Jsor posted:Wait, are we talking unit tests and batch testing scripts, or things like static program analysis and formal verification (e.g. as plugins for IDEs)? Because the latter is pretty hardcore work. The former obviously. If you were working on the latter at Microsoft you'd be a researcher not an engineer. As it turns out Microsoft actually does really good research in formal verification. Edit: On the salary thing, if they keep pressing it I just tell them the salary I want and leave it at that. How are they going to verify it? It's not as if you can't easily "photoshop" up a fake W-2. Although if a company was brazen enough to ask for a W-2 I'd end it right there, or tell them you can exchange W-2s yours for their entire company's, that's fair right? perfectfire fucked around with this message at 22:26 on Dec 5, 2014 |
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Dec 5, 2014 22:20
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Careful Drums posted:a recruiter i talked to the other day was like 'okay because we had one employer ask to see a recruits previous W-2 and it turns out he was lying' as some sort of thinly-veiled threat to me saying "i think you're lying about your salary" Which cool, congrats on your spidey sense. But if an employer agrees to pay me $x to do a job but won't if i used to make $x-20k instead of $x-10k, then gently caress that employer. I loving dare any recruiter to ask me for my W-2 and stay on the line long enough for my laughter to die down.
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Dec 5, 2014 23:09
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Che Delilas posted:I loving dare any recruiter to ask me for my W-2 and stay on the line long enough for my laughter to die down. I would scan a W2, black out everything, and then send it to them and say "I redacted some personal information that has no bearing on our discussion" Of course, I also have said that my salary expectations are "$500,000, but I can be flexible on the benefits package"
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Dec 5, 2014 23:13
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Careful Drums posted:Yeah. I don't have a good way of knowing if I'm really at the end of the curve so I throw out lofty numbers including bonuses :/ salary.com indeed.com/salary Also, network.
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Dec 6, 2014 00:47
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Jsor posted:Wait, are we talking unit tests and batch testing scripts, or things like static program analysis and formal verification (e.g. as plugins for IDEs)? Because the latter is pretty hardcore work. It largely depends on the team. SDETs in the group that i interned for in MSFT would put together some very awesome automated testing infrastructures that would look for perf/correctness/security regressions. You'd give it a patch and it would compile the product for all architectures and run it on 100s of physical machines simultaneously. SDETs would design/implement the infrastructure, add hooks to the product so it could be tested automatically, etc. Very impressive stuff. On another topic, what's the etiquette for scheduling multiple on-sites with companies that are located near each other (e.g. the Valley) around roughly the same period of time? Is it kosher to tell recruiters that you are trying to schedule multiple on-sites, or that you only need Company A to get the incoming flight for you because company B is paying for the way out? My job search is ramping up and I'd like to avoid throwing a blood clot from doing the NY-SF route in coach 5 times in 3 weeks...
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Dec 6, 2014 02:16
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shodanjr_gr posted:It largely depends on the team. SDETs in the group that i interned for in MSFT would put together some very awesome automated testing infrastructures that would look for perf/correctness/security regressions. You'd give it a patch and it would compile the product for all architectures and run it on 100s of physical machines simultaneously. SDETs would design/implement the infrastructure, add hooks to the product so it could be tested automatically, etc. Very impressive stuff. its kind of up to you. unlike some other things, telling a company you are interviewing at other places really isnt going to hurt you. dont feel bad about one company picking up the expense over another, or being open and having one pay your outbound flight and the other your inbound. the money is most likely p inconsequential to their department.
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Dec 6, 2014 04:18
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shodanjr_gr posted:On another topic, what's the etiquette for scheduling multiple on-sites with companies that are located near each other (e.g. the Valley) around roughly the same period of time? Is it kosher to tell recruiters that you are trying to schedule multiple on-sites, or that you only need Company A to get the incoming flight for you because company B is paying for the way out? My job search is ramping up and I'd like to avoid throwing a blood clot from doing the NY-SF route in coach 5 times in 3 weeks... If you think they view each other as solid competitors, mention the other company by name. If you're not sure, just say "I'm interviewing with some other companies." All non-psycho companies will completely understand and will be happy to work around your schedule. If you inform them before they start buying you tickets and hotel rooms, it might even save them money. But even if it costs them a little more, they should be fine with it. I wanted to interview in SF and Boston while I was living in DC. The SF company got me an open-jaw flight to visit them and end in Boston, and the Boston company got my flight home. It's only a couple hundred dollars, so they really shouldn't care.
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Dec 6, 2014 06:40
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I got an invitation over Linkedin to Hackerx - is this a thing that I should go to? Also, does anyone know anything about working for Mastercard, in St. Louis? Might possibly be moving there in a year or so and just curious.
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Dec 7, 2014 19:37
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Doghouse posted:I got an invitation over Linkedin to Hackerx - is this a thing that I should go to? This. This is the second time I've been asked. What the heck is it?
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Dec 7, 2014 20:19
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Doghouse posted:Also, does anyone know anything about working for Mastercard, in St. Louis? Might possibly be moving there in a year or so and just curious. I'd recommend Kansas City over St. Louis tbh
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Dec 7, 2014 20:39
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Best way to find and get jobs overseas? What about in countries where you're a non-native speaker (e.g. most places)? Also what are peoples thoughts on startups in the SF/Seattle area, generally probably avoid or go hog wild if you're single? Mr. Crow fucked around with this message at 22:49 on Dec 7, 2014 |
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Dec 7, 2014 22:43
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Mr. Crow posted:Best way to find and get jobs overseas? Depends on what you find "best", transferring from one branch of a multi-national to another tends to be less problematic. I've changed continents three times now.
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Dec 8, 2014 00:45
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Doghouse posted:I got an invitation over Linkedin to Hackerx - is this a thing that I should go to? I got this too. I think they're just spamming everybody on linkedin to try to get as many developers as they can. I'm kind of curious what companies are going to be there. I signed up for the Baltimore one, but now I have plans that night so I'm disappointed I can't go check it out. perfectfire posted:This. This is the second time I've been asked. What the heck is it? Looks like speed-dating style interviews/introductions: http://www.hackerx.org/ Cryolite fucked around with this message at 02:57 on Dec 8, 2014 |
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Dec 8, 2014 02:55
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Mr. Crow posted:Best way to find and get jobs overseas? Look for companies that interest you, apply? You implied you're looking at the Bay Area, so there should be enough resources to find start-ups and not-so-start-ups that are hiring there. quote:What about in countries where you're a non-native speaker (e.g. most places)? Shouldn't be an issue as long as your English is fluent and understandable. (Even if the local language isn't English - though it may vary from place to place) quote:Also what are peoples thoughts on startups in the SF/Seattle area, generally probably avoid or go hog wild if you're single? If you're young and single I'd say go hog wild for the experience.
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Dec 8, 2014 11:36
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I'm actually from US of A, was eyeballing various other locales.
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Dec 8, 2014 23:09
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Pie Colony posted:How come all the talk in this thread is either like the Big 4 or unknown startups, and never companies like Intel or Sun? Seems like they have a lot of smart developers there. What's working there like? I'll comment on this since I did two internships with Intel at different groups. People say Amazon is several different companies under the same name, and Intel is not different. Each group has its own hiring procedure so you will see a huge variety in terms of skill level of employees hired. I would describe Intel as having much more relaxed hiring standards versus the Big 4. Going along with that, you won't be paid as much either, but still more than working for a mid-sized company. From what people have told me, Intel has become a much more friendly place to work than it used to be in the 90s and 00s. I still decided not to join full time because of the amount of bureaucracy that plagues large companies, the lack of interest in the work (or group for that matter) I was doing, and the cut throat atmosphere. There still a lot of working insane hours if you want to stay ahead of pack or move up the hierarchy. As far as I know, Intel still uses some form a Stack ranking, which encourages an unhealthy atmosphere.
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Dec 10, 2014 23:18
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Just got an offer for a dev position in the UI team of a flagship product of one of the "big three". Needless to say, I am extremely excited.
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Dec 11, 2014 03:01
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shodanjr_gr posted:Just got an offer for a dev position in the UI team of a flagship product of one of the "big three". Needless to say, I am extremely excited. Hey congrats! Did they say they'd withdraw the offer if you told other people which company it is?
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Dec 11, 2014 03:40
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Che Delilas posted:Hey congrats! Did they say they'd withdraw the offer if you told other people which company it is? Nope, not at all, I'm just being a bit cautious about it what with this being a public forum and what not 
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Dec 11, 2014 03:45
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shodanjr_gr posted:"big three" Facebook, Google, and... ? Apple/MS/Amazon?
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Dec 11, 2014 14:10
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return0 posted:Facebook, Google, and... ? Apple/MS/Amazon? Clearly HP
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Dec 11, 2014 16:03
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Space Whale posted:salary.com Wait, are software engineers really paid 100k on average? Is that average bundling in the 8 year experienced people who make 300k? What's the worth of a more entry level/2 years style position? Edit: I'm in that camp that needs something to pay off these lofty student loans ouchh. Tezzeract fucked around with this message at 16:20 on Dec 11, 2014 |
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Dec 11, 2014 16:17
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Tezzeract posted:Wait, are software engineers really paid 100k on average? Is that average bundling in the 8 year experienced people who make 300k? What's the worth of a more entry level/2 years style position? Seems low to me. At my last day-job, we were hiring fresh out of college for $60k-$80k and we weren't the best-paying on the block. * Boston Area Most people getting $250k+ are probably contractors, so maybe they're not counted.
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Dec 11, 2014 16:21
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Tezzeract posted:Is that average bundling in the 8 year experienced people who make 300k? Wow, I'm way behind. I'm at 8 years experience and not making anywhere near 300k. How many people here with about that experience are making that much money?
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Dec 11, 2014 16:41
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perfectfire posted:Wow, I'm way behind. I'm at 8 years experience and not making anywhere near 300k. How many people here with about that experience are making that much money? That was my reaction too. I don't think it's right: http://www.glassdoor.com/GD/Salary/...eLevel=TEN_PLUS http://www.glassdoor.com/GD/Salary/...eLevel=TEN_PLUS edit*: I think management gets close. Rurutia fucked around with this message at 16:49 on Dec 11, 2014 |
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Dec 11, 2014 16:47
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I have no loving clue what's changed, cause all of a sudden I'm getting hounded by recruiters. I wonder what happened  Speaking of, I just spoke to a recruiting company on the phone - I was told I was going to speak to a particular person, but someone else picked up instead. They conducted the phone conversation. The message I had responded to on LinkedIn was about a specific, though unnamed, job at an unmentioned company. I was asked about what I made at my previous job. I told them I would rather discuss salary once we figured out that I was a good fit for the position (I still figured they were evaluating me for a particular position at this time), and their response was "we need to know what kind of salary range you want [read: qualify for] so we can find you a good job to match you with". That set off a big-rear end red flag for me, so I said I couldn't give a number since I had yet to find a new place to live and that I didn't know how much I'd need, nor what a competitive pay for the area would be for a junior developer. I was also a little miffed that they didn't even know what they were interviewing me for. Their response was "well for someone of your position you should expect to earn about $50-60k for the area", which seemed wayyyyyyyy too loving low to me. I avoided giving an answer or any sort of number, but went with the rest of the phone call anyway. After we scheduled the in-person interview for tomorrow (yeah yeah I know, I might as well get the practice), they called me back a little while later to tell me that their team wouldn't actually be in the office in the afternoon tomorrow!!! so please schedule an earlier time. Internally I'm like "gently caress off" but I tell them I can show up at 10, anyway.  I still have no idea what they actually want to do with me, which pisses me off. I'm considering canceling the interview. is that considered a faux-pas? Cause I still have lots of stuff to do tomorrow, as well as class. So yeah, not exactly confident about this one. Are recruiters always like this? If so, I might just ignore them - but I need a job!  edit: Also the people I spoke with sent an email after scheduling an interview both times - and it's clearly a faux-personal form letter, cause they're both literally the same except for the scheduled time. Yech. Pollyanna fucked around with this message at 16:56 on Dec 11, 2014 |
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Dec 11, 2014 16:49
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I think CoC are all Rockstars apparently because all the figures you hear about here are wildly off from every other source on the internet, and even our own informal salary thread.
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Dec 11, 2014 16:50
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Yes recruiters suck. Throw bullshit at them and if they eat it then you just landed a sweet gig. If they don't, nobody cares and they stop bothering you.
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Dec 11, 2014 16:52
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I would assume the $300K numbers come in from people who got equity instruments as part of their comp package and their lottery tickets paid off.
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Dec 11, 2014 17:22
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I got questioned about "target salary" again, and I'm not entirely sure I'm getting my response down right. I usually say that I'm not familiar with the going rate for junior devs in the area, and that my target salary depends on what my living situation looks like once I start moving around. Their response was to tell me they're not trying to gently caress me over, that they want to make me look good to their client (i.e. the people actually hiring me), and they have an interest in getting me as high a salary as possible because they get a percentage of my final salary. Then they pretty much decided the target salary for me without my input.  I have no idea what to think about that other than "yikes". I'm not hot on stuff like that being decided without me, and I'm wondering if this is really something I have to just grin and bear, or if I should resist being pulled around like that. I'm constantly told not to let recruiters gently caress me over, but I have no idea where I should compromise. Also, I really do not want to go to the interview for the other recruiter thing - I really don't feel okay about that one (and quite frankly I've been quoted higher salaries elsewhere). Is it fair to call back and tell them I won't be making it? If so, how do I say it? "Sorry, I decided that gently caress it", or can I just make up an excuse like "my class has an important workshop in the morning tomorrow so I can't make it"?
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Dec 11, 2014 20:20
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Pollyanna posted:I got questioned about "target salary" again, and I'm not entirely sure I'm getting my response down right. I usually say that I'm not familiar with the going rate for junior devs in the area, and that my target salary depends on what my living situation looks like once I start moving around. Their response was to tell me they're not trying to gently caress me over, that they want to make me look good to their client (i.e. the people actually hiring me), and they have an interest in getting me as high a salary as possible because they get a percentage of my final salary. Then they pretty much decided the target salary for me without my input. Part 1: Avoid recruiters like the plague; unless they're in-house recruiters at the company you're being pursued by. Part 2: It's not ok for them to decide how much money you think you should make; but you walked into it by making it about you being 'unfamiliar' with the going rate. You really just have to be bullheaded about not giving a number. Don't give excuses, because it opens the door for them to weasel around it. Part 3: Don't make excuses, because they'll ask you when you'd like to reschedule, and then you have to have the uncomfortable, "Well I don't really want to work here" talk anyway. Just say that you're pursuing other options.
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Dec 11, 2014 20:41
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Sarcophallus posted:Part 1: Avoid recruiters like the plague; unless they're in-house recruiters at the company you're being pursued by. What's a good way to check if they're in-house recruiters? I noticed that a lot of them on LinkedIn have job titles like "Technical Recruiter at XYZ Systems", where XYZ Systems is a staffing firm/headhunter company. That always feels like a red flag to me. Should I be avoiding messages from people with those kinds of titles? quote:Part 2: It's not ok for them to decide how much money you think you should make; but you walked into it by making it about you being 'unfamiliar' with the going rate. You really just have to be bullheaded about not giving a number. Don't give excuses, because it opens the door for them to weasel around it. I'm really really bad at confrontation/talking back So I just say "I would rather speak about the salary once I know I'm a good fit for the position"? (In the first recruiter's case, they didn't even have a position for me before they asked my target salary...)I'll call back and tell them I've found other opportunities.
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Dec 11, 2014 21:09
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