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Real Name Grover posted:I had Sportscenter on at the gym earlier and Linda Cohn asked Kiper to rate the draft stock of the three Heisman finalists. He likes Mariota, but said he can't call him a surefire franchise QB because teams rarely give QBs (especially first rounders) time to develop anymore; they get thrown to the wolves, and two years later when they're still mediocre at best, the teams kick them to the curb. Speaking of which, JFF on sunday!
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Dec 11, 2014 23:28
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Look at Winston's #'s in his freshman year vs. this year. When he was a freshman he had 3 reliable veteran WR's to throw to and O'leary. This year he's only had Greene and O'leary and a bunch of freshman. Jimbo's offense is based on timing and route trees where receivers have to be in the right places and make the right route decision based on coverage. The young guys often struggle with this and it caused a lot of INT's for Jameis this year. He doesn't just sit back there and wait for his receiver to run wide open down the middle of the field like Mariota. Granted Winston does have a tendency to throw high over the middle which is a concern. So a lot of his INT's this year were a combination of him forcing to Greene/O'leary and young receivers not doing their job. I'm also huge homer so that's just me defending him and talking myself into the Bucs taking him #1 overall.
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Dec 11, 2014 23:44
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wheez the roux posted:the fact that he's thrown a metric fuckton of interceptons against the vaunted secondaries of the ACC So did Matt Ryan. College INT numbers or lack thereof aren't a very good indicator of pro accuracy. Has Mariota even taken a snap from under center? That's another huge concern.
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Dec 11, 2014 23:52
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mcmagic posted:Very dumb. The Vikings didn't even like him as much as Manziel and the better player fell in their lap. Better to be lucky than good... For what it's worth, the Vikings seemed to like Manziel slightly more than Bridgewater. They were willing to trade up for him, but they weren't willing to overpay for him, and supposedly the Browns and one other team offered more for the 22nd pick than they did. The Vikings then regrouped and traded their 2nd and 4th for Teddy, which is looking very good right now. I suspect that they viewed Manziel as having a higher ceiling and admittedly he has very strong marketing power. However, he comes with a lot of risks both on and off the field and it is probably why they were only willing to offer their 3rd and perhaps some later round picks before moving onto other options. Teddy is looking very good so far and doesn't come with the off the field or questionable work ethic baggage that Manziel does and while Manziel's mobility is a huge asset early on, he will need to develop as a pocket passer at some point or risk a similar fate to RG3 and Kaepernick this year. It will be interesting to see how their careers unfold. Teddy is off to a good start and Manziel's is just about to begin.
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Dec 12, 2014 00:06
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I was really mad in the draft GDT when the Raiders didn't trade up to 32 for Bridgewater. Luckily, Carr seems to be a much better prospect than I gave him credit for, or I'd be livid.
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Dec 12, 2014 00:09
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Sour Diesel posted:Puppy Bowl, friend. Deep down you and I both know in our heart of hearts that if Ozzie drafted a receiver early or even traded up for one, even if said WR is supposed to be the next Jerry Rice, he will inevitably bust. I know. There's misery to be had no matter what. In that way I'm sort of glad we didn't ruin Keenan Allen's career... no I'm not. I really wanted Allen and Arthur Brown so of course we landed the one that is allegeric to Sundays. Top five WRs as I see it now 1. Amari Cooper 2. Jaelen Strong 3. Devante Parker 4. Kevin White 5. Rashad Greene Strong's my favorite, Cooper is too polished all around not to put up top, and Parker is probably the best fit for the Ravens in a pseudo Andre Johnson role. Baltimore somehow lands any of the top 4 and I'll be doing back flips on draft day. I only didn't put Dorial Green-Beckham up their because I feel like the combination of being forced to take a year of and domestic abuse charges in the wake of the Rice fiasco will lead to him dropping in the draft and probably never meeting his potential. A year out of any kind of football program is a lot of ground to make up.
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Dec 12, 2014 00:41
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I would be thrilled with any of Strong, White, or Parker. They've all looked great from what I've seen of them. I already love Cooper but there's no way in hell he falls to the Niners.
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Dec 12, 2014 00:43
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wandler20 posted:Look at Winston's #'s in his freshman year vs. this year. When he was a freshman he had 3 reliable veteran WR's to throw to and O'leary. This year he's only had Greene and O'leary and a bunch of freshman. Jimbo's offense is based on timing and route trees where receivers have to be in the right places and make the right route decision based on coverage. The young guys often struggle with this and it caused a lot of INT's for Jameis this year. He doesn't just sit back there and wait for his receiver to run wide open down the middle of the field like Mariota. Well also last year he could (and did) just lob it up and be reasonable certain his guy could come down with it. This year he couldn't, and lot of dumb throws that would have been saved by Benjamin last year wound up getting picked.
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Dec 12, 2014 00:56
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The Puppy Bowl posted:I know. There's misery to be had no matter what. In that way I'm sort of glad we didn't ruin Keenan Allen's career... no I'm not. I really wanted Allen and Arthur Brown so of course we landed the one that is allegeric to Sundays. Yea, if Baltimore drafted Keenan Allen he'd end up a bust somehow. Now that I think of it, I have no clue who the gently caress coaches the WRs in Baltimore and how long they've been here. Arthur Brown is either really bad or they just keep de-activating him because they are so thin at a few positions and absolutely loving stacked ILB. Daryl Smith is just playing too drat well right now and they are probably saving him for when he runs out of gas. Or they are trying to keep him stashed so they can re-sign him on the cheap. Whatever they do he's not getting any non special teams snaps any time soon so it's not like it matters. At least CJ Mosley is amazing. Jernigan as well. Sour Diesel fucked around with this message at 01:06 on Dec 12, 2014 |
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Dec 12, 2014 01:00
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I really like Terrance Brooks too. He's another one of those young players not getting much playing time because "reasons". If you haven't been in the league at least 4 years Harbaugh is not a fan. Excepting of course first round draft picks, good in the case of Mosley and holy poo poo bad in the case of Elam.
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Dec 12, 2014 01:04
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Volkerball posted:I was really mad in the draft GDT when the Raiders didn't trade up to 32 for Bridgewater. Luckily, Carr seems to be a much better prospect than I gave him credit for, or I'd be livid. Carr was another QB I liked. The only thing that sucks about taking him in the 2nd round is that his rookie deal lasts 4-years and by trading back into the 1st, the Vikings have Bridgewater on a 5-year deal. With how huge QB contracts tend to be, keeping a young QB on a cost controlled deal for as long as possible can be a godsend for franchises.
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Dec 12, 2014 01:15
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The Puppy Bowl posted:I know. There's misery to be had no matter what. In that way I'm sort of glad we didn't ruin Keenan Allen's career... no I'm not. I really wanted Allen and Arthur Brown so of course we landed the one that is allegeric to Sundays. Has Green-Beckham been allowed to practice and train with Oklahoma? The year off won't help, but the domestic abuse charges are a big issue and could kill his stock. I expect that some team will roll the dice on him, but he's just a grenade waiting to go off. I hope for his sake that's he's learned from those experiences and will stay out of trouble from here on out, but the potential of him getting in trouble or now even being accused of something makes him a volatile prospect.
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Dec 12, 2014 01:22
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I'm not sure. It wouldn't surprise me if he was banned from facilities because of how harsh the NCAA can be and the Sooners seemed to want to capitulate to their whims. He's certainly a risk but if he declares this year I couldn't see him falling past the 4th round just because their is an insane amount of potential there. Really hope the guy finds the right spot and gets his poo poo together* because he is truly fun to watch. *Excepting of course any opportunities with the Steelers, Patriots, Broncos or Packers.
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Dec 12, 2014 01:27
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The Puppy Bowl posted:I know. There's misery to be had no matter what. In that way I'm sort of glad we didn't ruin Keenan Allen's career... no I'm not. I really wanted Allen and Arthur Brown so of course we landed the one that is allegeric to Sundays. Harbs is weird. His main thing is when he gets mad and doghouses players for the dumbest poo poo. I understand if someone fucks up a basic fundamental you wanna send a message or drill the message in a players head so he gets better. But sometimes it's annoying. For an example, the 2011 Ravens loss when they got Gabbert'd. Rice hardly ever fumbled in his career, and he fumbled the ball on a run. He got benched for the rest of the game pretty much. This season Lorenzo Taliaferro (who is much much much better than Pierce, the dude has amazing vision) had that fumble in Pittsburgh and he got doghoused until Pierce got injured again and is only recently getting snaps (he splits carries with Pierce and has actually only been in on passing situations of all things, he's not a bad blocker at least). It loving sucks about Pierce because he's such a good runner but he can't see when to cut to save his life.
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Dec 12, 2014 01:42
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You're right, especially about Taliaferro needing to take most if not all of Pierce's carries. You draw up the play and Pierce will execute it exactly as called. If the hole is there he can get 30 yards, if the hole isn't their he can get 0 yards. He won't wait for things to open up and he as sure poo poo won't look outside for any other openings. Now that I think about it I think Terrance Brooks got doghoused too. In the Saints game he got himself in position to make an interception but then waited for the ball instead of attacking it which led to Colston making a terrific play on the ball in air for a TD. Yeah, Brooks is a rookie and he screwed up but he was in position to make a play, as a DB that is 90 percent of the battle and certainly not something the rest of our secondary is capable of.
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Dec 12, 2014 02:01
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Aniki posted:Has Green-Beckham been allowed to practice and train with Oklahoma? The year off won't help, but the domestic abuse charges are a big issue and could kill his stock. I expect that some team will roll the dice on him, but he's just a grenade waiting to go off. I hope for his sake that's he's learned from those experiences and will stay out of trouble from here on out, but the potential of him getting in trouble or now even being accused of something makes him a volatile prospect. Yea, he's been running scout team since he transferred.
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Dec 12, 2014 02:28
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MourningView posted:Well also last year he could (and did) just lob it up and be reasonable certain his guy could come down with it. This year he couldn't, and lot of dumb throws that would have been saved by Benjamin last year wound up getting picked. 5 picks this year were directly the result of WR's dropping a pass. We all know about Benjamin but I think the guy he really missed this year was Kenny Shaw (54-933-6). He was incredibly underrated behind Benjamin and Greene last year. His replacement, Bobo Wilson, was pretty bad at catching the football this year. I do get what you're saying and it goes with my throwing high over the middle concern.
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Dec 12, 2014 02:30
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The problem with blaming it on not having good receivers is this problem is going to be a problem in the Pros, as he is going to be drafted by a team with similar issues, as you know, that is how the Draft is designed.
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Dec 12, 2014 03:30
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CharlestheHammer posted:The problem with blaming it on not having good receivers is this problem is going to be a problem in the Pros, as he is going to be drafted by a team with similar issues, as you know, that is how the Draft is designed. But comparing NFL WRs to college freshman/sophomore WRs is also a pretty big difference. I'm not blaming everything on WRs for sure because he has flaws but it was obviously an issue for him this year.
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Dec 12, 2014 03:45
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Action Saxxon posted:Yea, he's been running scout team since he transferred. Have you heard anything about whether he will declare? I assume he is, but I seem to remember you having some insight into the program.
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Dec 12, 2014 04:04
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Man I now that's the company line on Jameis but guys he's overthrowing and making terrible decisions. That won't change against NFL DBs... and it'll be an even uglier result. If he works on his touch, and smartens up with thinking he can hit a window he simply cant... then yeah I love him as a prospect. Until then.
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Dec 12, 2014 04:57
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The only thing I really like about him is his size. But it's also not the offseason yet, so I haven't started my draft breakdown binge.
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Dec 12, 2014 05:04
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AAA DOLFAN posted:Man I now that's the company line on Jameis but guys he's overthrowing and making terrible decisions. That won't change against NFL DBs... and it'll be an even uglier result. Jimbo has a weekly call in show where they rush through nearly every play and he explains them as he goes. You get a pretty strong idea of when something is or isn't Jameis's fault, particularly on over-the-middle stuff. He never seems shy about saying exactly what is Jameis's fault on those plays or his missing better reads or such. They're all posted on YouTube, and the UF one is good if you want to see Jameis playing his worst Edit: The UF one doesn't seem to be up anymore. I guess check out Miami or Louisville instead. pillsburysoldier fucked around with this message at 18:44 on Dec 12, 2014 |
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Dec 12, 2014 05:07
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When has drafting a colossal idiot to play NFL QB worked? Because Winston just seems super dumb.
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Dec 12, 2014 18:28
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Troy Aikman is supposedly an idiot
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Dec 12, 2014 18:54
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Aniki posted:Carr was another QB I liked. The only thing that sucks about taking him in the 2nd round is that his rookie deal lasts 4-years and by trading back into the 1st, the Vikings have Bridgewater on a 5-year deal. With how huge QB contracts tend to be, keeping a young QB on a cost controlled deal for as long as possible can be a godsend for franchises. I honestly thought that was the shrewdest part of getting back into the first to grab Teddy. Sniping him right in front of the Texans was obviously pretty great but more a matter of circumstance.
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Dec 12, 2014 19:01
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Isn't Dan Marino supposed to be really dumb or was it just cocaine stuff with him?
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Dec 12, 2014 19:04
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Grittybeard posted:Isn't Dan Marino supposed to be really dumb or was it just cocaine stuff with him? He's not very bright, no. A bit of a hot head. One of my friends in high school was best friends with his son and by all accounts the family was pretty great.
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Dec 12, 2014 19:13
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They had the Wonderlic scores of top QBs over the years and they were all over the place, if that's how we want to define it.
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Dec 12, 2014 19:21
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sean10mm posted:When has drafting a colossal idiot to play NFL QB worked? Because Winston just seems super dumb. Terry Bradshaw
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Dec 12, 2014 19:21
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sean10mm posted:When has drafting a colossal idiot to play NFL QB worked? Because Winston just seems super dumb. Big Ben
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Dec 12, 2014 19:27
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When that RB from Wisconisn declared an NFL scout said he has doubts about him because he played against lovely Big 10 teams. Is the Big 10 that bad this year?
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Dec 12, 2014 19:52
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According to Ohio State fans it was great, according to everyone else yeah it was really terrible. I don't know if that's a reason to doubt Gordon though, destroying even crap teams when you are completely unable to throw the football and everyone knows it's coming to you is pretty impressive.
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Dec 12, 2014 19:57
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hifi posted:Terry Bradshaw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IfZ4-ILCsaw
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Dec 12, 2014 19:59
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Yaws posted:When that RB from Wisconisn declared an NFL scout said he has doubts about him because he played against lovely Big 10 teams. Is the Big 10 that bad this year? Virginia Tech, who barely went .500 this year with a QB that might be worse than Bo Wallace, beat the poo poo out of Ohio State. Ohio State went on to style all over the Big Ten. They are absolutely abysmal
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Dec 12, 2014 20:03
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When nearly half of the NFL's current leading rushers are from "bad" conferences, you should probably throw out that as a criteria of what is a good running back.
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Dec 12, 2014 20:12
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korrandark posted:When nearly half of the NFL's current leading rushers are from "bad" conferences, you should probably throw out that as a criteria of what is a good running back. e: actually I went and checked your claim: 1. DeMarco Murry (Oklahoma, Big 12) 2. LeVeon Bell (Michigan State, Big 10) 3. Justin Forsett (California, Pac 12) 4. LeSean McCoy (Pittsburg, ACC) 5. Marshawn Lynch (California, Pac 12) so yeah going further, 6. Arian Foster (Tennessee, SEC) 7. Alfred Morris (Florida Atlantic, C-USA) 8. Jamaal Charles (Texas, Big 12) 9. Matt Forte (Tulane, AAC) 10. Eddie Lacy (Alabama, SEC) 1 out of the top 10 rushers in the NFL went to a Big 10 school. Alaois fucked around with this message at 20:20 on Dec 12, 2014 |
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Dec 12, 2014 20:14
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Kentucky's Bud Dupree is going to blow up at the combine. Guy is an athletic freak at 6'4 270 lbs.
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Dec 12, 2014 20:19
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Alouicious posted:that's actually because the big 10 is the only conference in college football that gives even the slightest gently caress about running backs anymore outside of triple option teams and Georgia Southern Pitt was in the Big East when McCoy was there. And I went to the Top 10. 6. Arian Foster (Tennessee, SEC) 7.Alfred Morris (FAU,CUSA) 8.Jamaal Charles (Texas Big 12) 9.Matt Forte (Tulane, American) 10.Eddie Lacy (Alabama,SEC) So 4 out of 10, almost half.
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Dec 12, 2014 20:24
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Yaws posted:When that RB from Wisconisn declared an NFL scout said he has doubts about him because he played against lovely Big 10 teams. Is the Big 10 that bad this year? rutgers won 7 games
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Dec 12, 2014 20:38
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