|
Vermain posted:Yeah. I think it's far from a perfect society, but it's demonstrated the remarkable resiliency of centrally planned economies when under good administration with clear policy goals. Being a tiny-rear end island with the GDP of a mid-sized U.S. state while living in the backyard of your biggest ideological opponents (and the most militarily powerful nation on the Earth) and still managing to support universal health care, a 99.8% literacy rate, a 78 year life expectancy, and near food self-sufficiency ought to stand for something, at least.
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2014 04:58
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 11, 2024 05:16 |
|
|
TheImmigrant posted:The US has no claims beyond a leasehold at Guantanamo Bay.
|
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2014 05:09
|
|
|
Should Britain give back Gibraltar? Point being is that it shouldn't make friendly relations between the U.S. and Cuba impossible.
|
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2014 05:12
|
|
|
I have to imagine we're not giving up that base until the Gitmo detainees either all get transferred elsewhere or die a natural death. We have nowhere else to put any of them thanks to Congress.
|
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2014 05:16
|
|
|
Omi-Polari posted:Should Britain give back Gibraltar? Point being is that it shouldn't make friendly relations between the U.S. and Cuba impossible.
|
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2014 05:17
|
|
|
FlamingLiberal posted:I have to imagine we're not giving up that base until the Gitmo detainees either all get transferred elsewhere or die a natural death. We have nowhere else to put any of them thanks to Congress. On the other hand, the U.S. could give Guantánamo back on the condition of a Uruguay-style resettling of the remaining detainees who are held pending a place to send them. I'm curious how or whether Assata Shakur will be a point of tension.
|
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2014 05:48
|
|
|
The Warszawa posted:On the other hand, the U.S. could give Guantánamo back on the condition of a Uruguay-style resettling of the remaining detainees who are held pending a place to send them. Ain't no loving way we're 'giving' Gitmo back. Do you have any idea how that'd play in the press? No loving way, whatsoever.
|
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2014 05:51
|
|
|
My Imaginary GF posted:Ain't no loving way we're 'giving' Gitmo back. Do you have any idea how that'd play in the press? No loving way, whatsoever. Well it's one of those "gifts," where you just happen to receive a bunch of "gifts" in return. Chicago-style deep dish gifts.
|
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2014 05:53
|
|
|
The Warszawa posted:Well it's one of those "gifts," where you just happen to receive a bunch of "gifts" in return. Chicago-style deep dish gifts. Look, I'm not saying that we want all of your Café con Leche, but you know, should you happen to send it to us I've got a cousin really good at loading up prisoners by boat.
|
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2014 05:55
|
|
|
The Warszawa posted:Well it's one of those "gifts," where you just happen to receive a bunch of "gifts" in return. Chicago-style deep dish gifts. See, that was a flat-crust, woman's underwear, faggoty-rear end open window gift. Ain't nothing deep dish nor Chicago about it.
|
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2014 05:56
|
|
|
My Imaginary GF posted:See, that was a flat-crust, woman's underwear, faggoty-rear end open window gift. Ain't nothing deep dish nor Chicago about it. Wait what?
|
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2014 07:53
|
|
|
Ardennes posted:Wait what? He finally broke, oh god no!
|
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2014 08:03
|
|
|
I bet if we gave Guantanamo Bay back to Cuba they'd turn it into a tourist attraction and, hell, probably a pretty successful one at that.
|
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2014 10:11
|
|
|
illrepute posted:I bet if we gave Guantanamo Bay back to Cuba they'd turn it into a tourist attraction and, hell, probably a pretty successful one at that. That reminds me of Tropico 5 where you can turn an old Spanish fort into either a tourist facility or a torture dungeon.
|
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2014 15:12
|
|
|
FlamingLiberal posted:I have to imagine we're not giving up that base until the Gitmo detainees either all get transferred elsewhere or die a natural death. We have nowhere else to put any of them thanks to Congress. McMurdo Sound might work. I think Gitmo was mostly useful since it was reasonably close to the US, so that lawyers, interrogators, waterboarding technicians and the like could shuttle back and forth more easily. Once we've admitted that there's no point to holding them any more, we can stick them somewhere far away and remote and not have to worry about it. Best of all, there's, like, no laws in Antarctica.
|
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2014 16:01
|
|
|
sullat posted:McMurdo Sound might work. I think Gitmo was mostly useful since it was reasonably close to the US, so that lawyers, interrogators, waterboarding technicians and the like could shuttle back and forth more easily. Once we've admitted that there's no point to holding them any more, we can stick them somewhere far away and remote and not have to worry about it. Best of all, there's, like, no laws in Antarctica. Guantanamo was actually used because it's Cuban territory. The government wanted to argue that because it was in Cuban territory, US law did not apply. Of course since Cuba has no effective control over the territory Cuban law doesn't apply either, and you've got a black hole. Fortunately the Supreme Court ruled that was bullshit. Following that ruling yes, there's no reason to have them in Gitmo and you might as well have them in the US.
|
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2014 16:09
|
|
|
I just want to be able to visit Cuba to get an authentic Cuban sandwich that I have been craving since I moved out of Florida 8 years ago. Yes, I would rather visit Cuba than Florida now.
|
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2014 16:25
|
|
|
computer parts posted:That reminds me of Tropico 5 where you can turn an old Spanish fort into either a tourist facility or a torture dungeon. ahaha that's great. Have there ever been any hints or references to large foreign military bases that you have to work around? By the way, that FP magazine piece posted upthread raging about how Obama shouldn't have normalized relations? Same guy http://foreignpolicy.com/2014/04/05/theres-nothing-sinister-or-unique-about-usaids-cuba-program/ Seems a bit personal FP magazine posted:... Dude is a prime example of power and access trumping truth and reason, standard practice these days in DC.
|
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2014 16:28
|
|
|
Floridiot posted:Yes, I would rather visit Cuba than Florida now. I sincerely doubt it.
|
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2014 16:32
|
|
|
Vaall posted:I sincerely doubt it. Why? I grew up in FL. I have done and seen everything there. Why wouldn't I want to visit a Caribbean island that has been off limits?
|
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2014 16:41
|
|
|
FlamingLiberal posted:I think he meant to say that the current Cuban regime has never agreed that the US has legitimate claims on Guantanamo Bay. I wonder if they'll cash all our back rent checks now? rockopete posted:ahaha that's great. Have there ever been any hints or references to large foreign military bases that you have to work around? Yes, if you piss off the USA or USSR enough, they will invade. Conversely if you get your approval with them high enough, you can have them set up a base on your island that prevents the invasion by the other.
|
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2014 16:42
|
|
|
Vaall posted:I sincerely doubt it. Having been to both in the past year? Definitely Cuba.
|
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2014 16:47
|
|
|
PT6A posted:Having been to both in the past year? Definitely Cuba. Cuba is a great place to visit, but probably a really lovely place to live once the novelty wears off.
|
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2014 16:51
|
|
|
TheImmigrant posted:Cuba is a great place to visit, but probably a really lovely place to live once the novelty wears off. Oh, indeed. Unless you have money, in which case it's pretty tolerable. Most of the complaints I've heard from Cubans center around not having enough money, not a lack of freedom or anything else.
|
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2014 16:57
|
|
|
PT6A posted:Oh, indeed. Unless you have money, in which case it's pretty tolerable. Most of the complaints I've heard from Cubans center around not having enough money, not a lack of freedom or anything else.
|
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2014 17:06
|
|
|
Rent-A-Cop posted:Most of the complaints I heard involved getting shot at by the Cuban Army during attempts to not be in Cuba any more, but not a lot of contented Cubans were making that run so I'm probably biased. You no longer need la carta blanca to leave the country any more, and it was always possible to get one if you had money. The main obstacle to emigration now is having enough money, and getting a visa for your destination country. My Cuban friend has the right of permanent residency in Panama, and he had the carta blanca when it was needed. Somewhat ironically, the biggest obstacle to having him or his family visit me and our mutual friends in Canada was the Canadian government. His father had been to Canada a few times for business as well, as an employee of an international shipping company operating in Cuba. Travel outside of Cuba really isn't impossible as such, it's just very expensive. Which brings us back to the economic problem -- definitely the most pressing issue affecting most Cubans.
|
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2014 17:12
|
|
|
TheImmigrant posted:Cuba is a great place to visit, but probably a really lovely place to live once the novelty wears off. Much like Florida.
|
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2014 17:23
|
|
|
Florida Betty posted:Much like Florida. Uh, no. There's not much that's similar to living in Cuba and living in Florida. I guess they both end in 'a' and have lots of Cubans, but that's a fairly superficial similarity.
|
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2014 17:29
|
|
|
PT6A posted:Oh, indeed. Unless you have money, in which case it's pretty tolerable. Most of the complaints I've heard from Cubans center around not having enough money, not a lack of freedom or anything else. I'm sure it's great, so long as you don't run afoul of the block CDR snitch.
|
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2014 17:31
|
|
|
PT6A posted:Travel outside of Cuba really isn't impossible as such, it's just very expensive. Which brings us back to the economic problem -- definitely the most pressing issue affecting most Cubans.
|
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2014 17:31
|
|
|
Rent-A-Cop posted:The Cuban government still doesn't look kindly on it's poorer and less well connected citizens attempting to leave without permission. As of 2008ish their rather dim view of migratory activities took the form of shooting at people running through a minefield. Though to be fair unless they had particular reason to gently caress with a migrant they generally didn't punish them when the Coast Guard brought them back. My take is that any country that will use deadly force to prevent it's own citizens leaving is not one I'm inclined to visit. Though I admit that I'm biased based on the fact that my information mostly comes second hand from the folks who were willing to risk mines, sharpshooters and drowning to leave Cuba. During 2013 it finally became legal to leave Cuba, provided you had $100 USD available for a passport. This was one of the reforms that have led to the current detente.
|
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2014 17:33
|
|
|
esquilax posted:During 2013 it finally became legal to leave Cuba, provided you had $100 USD available for a passport. This was one of the reforms that have led to the current detente. Hard currency? How many months' salary is that?
|
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2014 17:36
|
|
|
TheImmigrant posted:Hard currency? How many months' salary is that? Edit: Assuming they can pay in national Pesos and don't have to use CUC or USD. Rent-A-Cop fucked around with this message at 17:47 on Dec 19, 2014 |
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2014 17:44
|
|
|
Rent-A-Cop posted:Two years, give or take, for the average Cuban. Yeah, it's still extremely hosed up, but it's an economic problem now instead of a legal problem. For many/most, a distinction without a difference, but it's made a big difference to a lot of people.
|
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2014 17:59
|
|
|
PT6A posted:Yeah, it's still extremely hosed up, but it's an economic problem now instead of a legal problem. For many/most, a distinction without a difference, but it's made a big difference to a lot of people.
|
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2014 18:04
|
|
|
Rent-A-Cop posted:Setting the price of a passport arbitrarily high is a legal problem. Nobody in his right mind would say "Well the problem is economic" if the State Department charged Americans $100,000 for a passport. If the State determines that $10 or $20/month is a just and sufficient monthly wage, and sets the price of a passport at $100, they are tacitly telling you something.
|
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2014 18:13
|
|
|
|
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2014 19:07
|
|
|
quote:Hey @marcorubio if the embargo doesn't hurt Cuba, why do you want to keep it? quote:Senator @marcorubio is acting like an isolationist who wants to retreat to our borders and perhaps build a moat. I reject this isolationism. quote:The United States trades and engages with other communist nations, such as China and Vietnam. So @marcorubio why not Cuba? quote:.@marcorubio what about the majority of Cuban-Americans who now support normalizing relations between our countries? http://n.pr/1z3MARX quote:Senator Marco Rubio believes the embargo against Cuba has been ineffective, yet he wants to continue perpetuating failed policies. After 50 years of conflict, why not try a new approach? The United States trades and engages with other communist nations, such as China and Vietnam. Why not Cuba? I am a proponent of peace through commerce, and I believe engaging Cuba can lead to positive change.  These are all from Rand Paul, I guess there really is going to be some inter-Republican heat over this.
|
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2014 19:08
|
|
|
We've already got the world's best moat, Rand.
|
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2014 19:21
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 11, 2024 05:16 |
|
|
That's pretty drat amazing.
|
|
#
?
Dec 19, 2014 19:25
|
|