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Captain Mog posted:And what did the rest of the world do before the Scoobies activated the potential Slayers? Were they just demon chow? Yeah, the implication is pretty much that the rest of the world was fair game, since there's only one slayer and she can only be in one place at a time. Theoretically, past slayers were less tied to their native environment, and would be more willing to travel the world. The Council, in that scenario, served as an intelligence/support network for a traveling slayer's activities. In The Wish, we essentially see what Buffy's tenure as slayer would have looked like if there was no Hellmouth she had to guard: dispatched to various sites of demonic activity, presumably coordinated by the Council. Faith talked a little too about various places she had gone to fight vampires. Buffy is something of a rarity among slayers, with the family and friends and the centralized location of evil power. But by and large, yeah, most of the world was subject to reigns of terror by monsters like The Master, Angelus, Wolfram & Hart, etc.
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Dec 9, 2014 04:08
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ShakeZula posted:Yeah, the implication is pretty much that the rest of the world was fair game, since there's only one slayer and she can only be in one place at a time. Theoretically, past slayers were less tied to their native environment, and would be more willing to travel the world. The Council, in that scenario, served as an intelligence/support network for a traveling slayer's activities. In The Wish, we essentially see what Buffy's tenure as slayer would have looked like if there was no Hellmouth she had to guard: dispatched to various sites of demonic activity, presumably coordinated by the Council. Faith talked a little too about various places she had gone to fight vampires. Buffy is something of a rarity among slayers, with the family and friends and the centralized location of evil power. Eh, sort of. We see various individuals and organizations who also fight the demons throughout both shows. You had the Initiative, Holtz, Miss Calender and her clan. Hell, even the luchadores from that one episode of Angel. Given that we only see a small area of California and all those demon hunter types drifted through it, one has to imagine there are others out there throughout the world that we never heard of.
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Dec 9, 2014 04:21
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jng2058 posted:Hell, even the luchadores from that one episode of Angel HERMANOS! THE DEVIL HAS BUILT A ROBOT!
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Dec 9, 2014 04:22
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Rhyno posted:HERMANOS! THE DEVIL HAS BUILT A ROBOT! Ah yes, El Diablo Robótico.
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Dec 9, 2014 04:30
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Also, if your Slayer dies every year, finding and training the next one is probably a big job requiring people on every continent. Buffy not only lasted far longer, but she also actively rejected the Council.
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Dec 9, 2014 04:33
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e X posted:Ah yes, El Diablo Robótico. I love how loving hard Denisoff sold that line.
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Dec 9, 2014 04:33
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There's some indication that the Council did some work towards identifying and training Potentials (like, it doesn't sound like Faith and Buffy were identified and trained before becoming the Slayer, but Kendra certainly was, from birth, and the season 7 Potentials were).
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Dec 9, 2014 05:55
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ShakeZula posted:My biggest problem with the "Buffy has to get a fast food job" plot was the fact that Willow and Tara lived in her house rent-free and didn't get jobs, even though they only had college (on rare occasions) to worry about. At least Xander and Anya had their own place and supported themselves. Also, that Buffy even maintained the house. That place was both huge and a sinkhole for money she didn't have. They should've liquidated that poo poo soon after Joyce died, then they'd have a couple hundred thousand on top of whatever life insurance or inheritance they received. And where was Buffy's dad in all this? Joyce died and he couldn't be bothered to show up. Because an unemployed 20-year-old taking custody of her 15-year-old sister makes sense. No, sir, I don't like the smell of this at all...
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Dec 9, 2014 09:44
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Xealot posted:Also, that Buffy even maintained the house. That place was both huge and a sinkhole for money she didn't have. They should've liquidated that poo poo soon after Joyce died, then they'd have a couple hundred thousand on top of whatever life insurance or inheritance they received. But their dad was apparently ready to come take Dawn away at the drop of a hat if he found out Buffy was a robot.
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Dec 9, 2014 14:56
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Acne Rain posted:This is one reason why I didn't like them living in the hotel. That was more of a filming issue. I am pretty sure they hated filming in the office from season one and also the library in seasons 1-3 of Buffy. They were pain in asses and with the hotel they had plenty of room.
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Dec 9, 2014 16:15
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redshirt posted:Yeah. Here's Buffy working in fast food while also saving the world. Wouldn't it be in the Council's interest as well to at least pay her bills? side_burned fucked around with this message at 23:57 on Dec 24, 2014 |
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Dec 24, 2014 23:49
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side_burned posted:I did a re-watch last year and was amazed at how utterly incompetent and chauvinistic the Watcher's council is. It's especially impressive when you consider how many aeons the Council has had since the First Slayer to refine their approach.
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Dec 25, 2014 00:31
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You have to argue that the Council's lack of assistance is because Buffy has told them off - no other explanation makes sense, in show. Buffy is clearly hostile to the Council throughout the show, so it kind of works. But not really, because Buffy should be one of the most important people on the planet and given every resource available. Of course the real reason is the writers wanted Buffy to struggle with real world issues, so, The Slayer working fast food.
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Dec 26, 2014 05:52
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She isn't the official slayer. She was killed at the end of season one which ended her relationship with the establishment.
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Dec 26, 2014 06:16
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TheBigBad posted:She isn't the official slayer. She was killed at the end of season one which ended her relationship with the establishment. Good point. My Buffy memories are growing dim - how/why does Giles stay as Watcher, then? And what about Wesley and Gwendolin Post?
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Dec 26, 2014 06:24
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Because the point is wrong. Buffy was official because Giles was her Watcher, then the Council tried to replace Giles with Wesley which is why she quit. So she was official through the end of season 3.
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Dec 26, 2014 06:25
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redshirt posted:Good point. My Buffy memories are growing dim - how/why does Giles stay as Watcher, then? And what about Wesley and Gwendolin Post? Gwendolin Post was Faith's but batshit insane. They sent Wesley when Giles was fired, they also had a better relationship with Kendra's watcher. They kept Gile's on since he had a relationship with Buffy and a job. Then he was not rehired until season 5 and Buffy was then killed. I think they mentioned that they did not talk to the watcher's council since Buffy's return would bring up too many questions.
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Dec 26, 2014 06:29
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After Buffy peaces out and faith turns/goes into a coma they basically throw up their hands and say gently caress it to having any type of connection with the slayer until s5
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Dec 26, 2014 07:34
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Dont blame the council. None of you a-holes has any idea just how expensive it is to run and fund an entire pharmaceutical plant for the express purpose of manufacturing vamp-sedation pills in order to conduct elaborate ritualized slayer-killing tests. It burns an enormous amount of council money and man power, not to mention the high employee turnover rate through having to fire so many people for asking what is the point of running a pharmaceutical plant that ultimately only takes an incredible toll on the ranks of potentials.
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Dec 26, 2014 07:39
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bobkatt013 posted:Gwendolin Post was Faith's but batshit insane. They sent Wesley when Giles was fired, they also had a better relationship with Kendra's watcher. They kept Gile's on since he had a relationship with Buffy and a job. Then he was not rehired until season 5 and Buffy was then killed. I think they mentioned that they did not talk to the watcher's council since Buffy's return would bring up too many questions. I think Post had already been given the boot and was only pretending to be Faith's new Watcher so she could get hands on the Nintendo Power Glove of Rassilon, and Wesley was her actual Watcher (when Faith shows up in the first season of Angel, Wesley says he was her Watcher), and subsequently had to do double-duty with Buffy when Giles was sacked at the end of the Cruciamentum episode.
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Dec 26, 2014 13:38
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The only explanation you really need is that the Council are patriarchal dad figures, and in the Buffyverse, dads are absent, assholes, or both.
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Dec 26, 2014 13:54
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Metal Loaf posted:I think Post had already been given the boot and was only pretending to be Faith's new Watcher so she could get hands on the Nintendo Power Glove of Rassilon, and Wesley was her actual Watcher (when Faith shows up in the first season of Angel, Wesley says he was her Watcher), and subsequently had to do double-duty with Buffy when Giles was sacked at the end of the Cruciamentum episode. Wesley was not introduced until the Post episode happened. I remember they call the council to make sure Wesley was not crazy.
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Dec 27, 2014 00:28
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Wesley being just Faith's Watcher was a sort of retcon they made on Angel.
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Dec 27, 2014 02:24
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bobkatt013 posted:Wesley was not introduced until the Post episode happened. I remember they call the council to make sure Wesley was not crazy. I meant to mention that. Must have slipped my mind, sorry.
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Dec 27, 2014 03:52
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Yeah, Faith had some other Watcher before she showed up in the series, but Kakistos murdered them and caused Faith to head for Sunnydale.
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Dec 27, 2014 20:06
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Steve Higginson posted:But their dad was apparently ready to come take Dawn away at the drop of a hat if he found out Buffy was a robot. Something I never understood with the late seasons of Buffy is why the hell they felt the need to retcon Buffy's dad into being an rear end in a top hat. I remember in one of the later episodes they mention he cheated on Joyce which had definitely not been the case before hand. The existence of parents seemed to be a complete inconvenience to the writers, and they really dealt with it poorly.
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Dec 28, 2014 18:04
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There is an allegiance to the dramatic moment of the story and then there is the Star Trek like continuity that takes every precedent and bears allegiance to it. Good shows and good writers tend to favor the moment of the story over continuity. examples: Joss, TIna Fey and Aaron Sorkin.
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Dec 28, 2014 18:10
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LeafyOrb posted:Something I never understood with the late seasons of Buffy is why the hell they felt the need to retcon Buffy's dad into being an rear end in a top hat. I remember in one of the later episodes they mention he cheated on Joyce which had definitely not been the case before hand. The existence of parents seemed to be a complete inconvenience to the writers, and they really dealt with it poorly. They retconed the whole world. The key probably made him an rear end in a top hat to increase Buffy and Joyce's attachment to Dawn.
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Dec 28, 2014 22:00
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Soylentbits posted:They retconed the whole world. The key probably made him an rear end in a top hat to increase Buffy and Joyce's attachment to Dawn. This. Before season 5 Buffy even visits her dad offscreen at times, I think. He only becomes a whoring absentee after reality is altered.
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Dec 29, 2014 06:48
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TheBigBad posted:There is an allegiance to the dramatic moment of the story and then there is the Star Trek like continuity that takes every precedent and bears allegiance to it. Good shows and good writers tend to favor the moment of the story over continuity. examples: Joss, TIna Fey and Aaron Sorkin. Congrats on figuring out an 8th grader's level of critical understanding on the benefits and drawbacks of continuity on fandom and fandom discussion. We're all very proud of you. Carnaticum posted:This. Before season 5 Buffy even visits her dad offscreen at times, I think. He only becomes a whoring absentee after reality is altered. This is the best continuity answer, but LeafyOrb is 100% right that Buffy writers did not have any clue on how to deal with parents. I don't think Buffy's Dad even gets a mention during the entirety Season 4; maybe he gets mentioned in "Pangs" when Giles is wondering why Buffy insists on having Thanksgiving with him, I can't quite remember. Willow's mother gets like half an episode's worth of showcasing in that episode with the little dead kids, and actually hints at a really rich and complex set of issues for Willow that are completely dropped and forgotten. This is also part of the reason why Xander jilting Anya didn't quite work, because while we had seen oblique glimpses of Xander's lovely home life it was almost invariably as comic relief and we never actually got any sense of the weight that was on Xander. I don't really knock the writers for this, but it's like the FedEx arrow-- once you've noticed it you can't not see it.
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Dec 29, 2014 06:58
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We bump the thread whenever Nicholas Brendon gets arrested, right?quote:Brendon was in Ft. Lauderdale for a comic book convention and authorities say he got rip-roaring drunk, trashed his hotel room and ended up asleep in a hotel employee's office.
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Feb 18, 2015 04:55
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Jesus Christ Xander. Get your poo poo together.
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Feb 18, 2015 05:39
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Ugh that always just makes me sad. What's not sad is the current Buffy and Angel comics. I know that I constantly say this but it's constantly true: it's so very many leagues above the season 8 and even season 9 comics. This is what they should've been right from the beginning.  
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Feb 18, 2015 06:19
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Why doesnt he just send his twin in his place then they can split the money Every time he goes himself it seems like a net loss
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Feb 18, 2015 06:42
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shadow puppet of a posted:We bump the thread whenever Nicholas Brendon gets arrested, right? The exact same thing happened again. Poor guy.
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Mar 15, 2015 17:12
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shadow puppet of a posted:The exact same thing happened again. Poor guy. http://m.tmz.com/#Article/2015/03/14/nicholas-brendon-arrest-convention-drunk-hotel-mug-shot This dudes gonna die soon.
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Mar 15, 2015 17:25
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Just got done skim-watching Salvage/Release/Orpheus again. I really like the Wesley-Faith dynamic in the first half of the arc, where you can sort of see what a great really loving scary Watcher he had the potential to be. And then I really like the Faith-Angel dynamic in Orpheus, where Angel concocts this fabulously pointless scenario for the sole aim of persuading Faith to go on when, if he had enough control to arrange that much, he could have just had a sit-down chat with her. Total Angel, right there. But mostly, I like where Faith's character arc has taken her. And then she goes over to Buffy and I can never bring myself to watch those episodes because holy poo poo they were bad the first time around.
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Apr 4, 2015 03:35
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Uh-oh, Vampire with a gun!
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Apr 4, 2015 04:08
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Continuing conversation from Jurassic World thread In short, apparently, Joss Whedon is fetishistic about bad rear end women in leather clothes and has a "90s sexist" mindset.
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Apr 11, 2015 15:59
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The antagonists in Whedon's world tend to be from 'outside' of society, vampires/demons from hell or shady characters being needlessly murder-y or mean selfish superheroes who don't do their jobs properly to name a few, and are only very formally feminist. His works invariably say that society would be better if it weren't for those pesky Bad People corrupting some ideal version of pre-existing society. It creates a situation where the strong female characters everyone raves about actually achieve very little and at best maintain actually-sexist society as it is, by holding something even worse at bay and maybe yelling at the generic sexist bad guys who call them quims. This is why Whedon's work isn't politically very divisive - when it comes down to it it's pro status-quo but with more women and minorities in charge. It says nothing about antagonism within the system itself. This ties with Whedon's expectations of (and conclusions about) the Jurassic World scene that was teased recently - Chris Pratt's character's vaguely sexist assertions don't get immediately shot down by the lady in the scene, and this is simply too problematic for him to cope with. He wants the film to tell you Chris Pratt is wrong to make sure you know, and instead of concluding that this is further characterisation for the weirdo who thinks he can talk to velociraptors, he views it as sexist. This contrasts nicely with, for example, The Avengers, where no-one talks about women or gender issues whatsoever and everyone quietly accepts Whedon's unspoken ideas about them, except for the bad guys dressed in evil clothes who are sexist in really over-the-top ways. It's a ridiculous dichotomy and I am totally unsurprised that the person who wrote that has a problem with a scene in which a character who might turn out to be an all right person has some unquestioned casually sexist views. It's just unthinkable.
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