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Frog Act posted:i feel like i remember beevor repeatedly pointing out in Stalingrad that if the germans had just had the brains to encircle major cities and keep going rather than viciously fight street to street for them they wouldn't have sustained nearly as many losses the germans didn't really get bogged down in stalingrad-style street fighting except in stalingrad itself, and to a lesser extent leningrad. but neither city could really be encircled either or they probably would have done so. to encircle stalingrad you'd be making an opposed crossing of the volga and supplying a spearhead on the other side when the major regional transport hub in an otherwise barren steppe wasteland is the very city you're bypassing. and in the case of leningrad the finns who were responsible for the northern part of the encirclement simply didn't want to advance closer because they were playing their own long game and didn't want to collaborate with the germans too closely. which considering that finland could probably have been turned into a soviet client state like the future warsaw pact nations were if stalin really wanted to, ended up being a pretty smart move on their part
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Jan 5, 2015 04:08
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Baba Ganoush posted:If the Axis had gotten the bomb first we would all be test-tube super men by now. There would be no use for racism because Obama wouldn't even exist and women wouldn't be gossiping in the office all day. ...if only~
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Jan 5, 2015 05:34
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Real answer: Taking Russia was always part of Hitler's grand plans for the Third Reich. He wanted to take the Soviet Union's vast lands and resources; kill all the people already living there and using it; have his "master race" populate them; and make his German Empire self sufficient. He considered the UK and France to almost be distractions.
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Jan 5, 2015 05:43
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Echo Chamber posted:Real answer: Taking Russia was always part of Hitler's grand plans for the Third Reich. He wanted to take the Soviet Union's vast lands and resources; kill all the people already living there and using it; have his "master race" populate them; and make his German Empire self sufficient. He considered the UK and France to almost be distractions. to be fair it's not like the current residents are anywhere close to being a master race
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Jan 5, 2015 05:44
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the germans he would've repopulated eastern europe with would have been boring as gently caress thoguh, bunch of lower middle class racist farmers in lederhosen and poo poo.
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Jan 5, 2015 05:45
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id rather a bunch of beer drinking germans than a bunch of vodka drinking russians german girls are hotter than russians btw
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Jan 5, 2015 10:06
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During the Khrushchev era, there were some relaxing of talk regarding Stalin and the Great Patriotic War and it came to light that Stalin once said (paraphrasing here), "If it wasn't for the British aid early in the war, the Germans could have taken Moscow" (he never outright said they would have lost the war, but the general mood was it was likely). Apparently the aid that Britain sent from 41 onwards was instrumental in allowing the Soviet Union to catch its breath and get it's industry up and running. A lot of people cite that about 1/2 the medium->heavy tanks involved in defending the outskirts of Moscow were British made, as were a lot of the aircraft, but even more important were things like nickel, iron, grain, raw high-explosive, machine tooling, and most importantly trucks. At this point the Russians were having trouble finding enough factory space and manpower to produce all the things they needed. An example (pulling out of my rear end) could be that for every T-34 tank you wanted to field, you needed one rail car, and 4 trucks to keep it operational and fighting. Also it should be noted, at this time a lot of Stalin's industrial capacity was either in German hands, destroyed, cut off, or in the process of being dismantled and moved further back into safer Soviet territory. So let's say you need 100 factories, to produce the required amount of tanks, trucks, trains locomotives, artillery guns, small arms, uniforms, canned food, ammunition, fuel, etc.... Since the soviets were down to (let's say) 50% industrial capacity, they would have to let some of these things slide. So instead of producing 300 T-34's this month, you might have to only produce 150 because you have to produce these things to have an effective army. The British aid allowed the soviets to retool factories and up production of things they really needed. Also, a lot of people point to Stalingrad as the first sign that Hitler had lost the war, I'd actually point to North Africa, as they had lost even more men there than in trying to take the city. Long story short, it was a no-win scenario for Hitler as he could never knock out Britain, and he was fighting an enemy that could not be invaded (America) who's industrial production was the same as the rest of the world's combined. 
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Jan 5, 2015 14:55
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Blistex posted:Also, a lot of people point to Stalingrad as the first sign that Hitler had lost the war, I'd actually point to North Africa, as they had lost even more men there than in trying to take the city. Long story short, it was a no-win scenario for Hitler as he could never knock out Britain, and he was fighting an enemy that could not be invaded (America) who's industrial production was the same as the rest of the world's combined. is this for real because even just a quick look at wikipedia will tell you this isn't true. even if you figure wikipedia cannot be trusted to be 100% accurate the numbers aren't even in the same ballpark manpower-wise, and you probably have to figure vehicle losses for the axis in north africa are inflated because of the italians being lovely and also major combatants (for a period THE major axis combatant) and the back and forth nature of the fighting leading to some vehicles being destroyed, repaired after the battlefield was secured, and destroyed again later, or captured from the enemy and destroyed, etc
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Jan 5, 2015 15:16
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Blistex posted:During the Khrushchev era, there were some relaxing of talk regarding Stalin and the Great Patriotic War and it came to light that Stalin once said (paraphrasing here), "If it wasn't for the British aid early in the war, the Germans could have taken Moscow" (he never outright said they would have lost the war, but the general mood was it was likely). congratulations on this giant stupid post full of facts and statistics you just invented
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Jan 5, 2015 15:46
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WHAT A GOOD DOG posted:german girls are hotter than russians btw  Are you for real?
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Jan 5, 2015 16:49
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Germans talk about poop too much.
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Jan 5, 2015 16:54
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Damo posted:because he wanted to own more than napoleon so he decided that he would succeed where napoleon failed in Russia by making basically the same mistakes NATO's plan in the 70s and 80s: Don't invade Russia from the Western side, they can just keep falling back to worse and worse terrain while straining your logistics. Just buffer them to the West and invade from the East or the North in the Spring months to strip away their ability to supply all their major population centers and then you can just starve them out by snapping off all roads pipe-lines and rail-lines while they burn themselves out by trying to push against you to the East or North.
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Jan 5, 2015 16:59
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Booblord Zagats posted:NATO's plan in the 70s and 80s: Don't invade Russia from the Western side, they can just keep falling back to worse and worse terrain while straining your logistics. Just buffer them to the West and invade from the East or the North in the Spring months to strip away their ability to supply all their major population centers and then you can just starve them out by snapping off all roads pipe-lines and rail-lines while they burn themselves out by trying to push against you to the East or North. Air drop blue jeans, cause you sure as gently caress aren't going to march through Siberia.
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Jan 5, 2015 17:04
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RideTheSpiral posted:congratulations on this giant stupid post full of facts and statistics you just invented To be fair this is pretty much spot on if you're playing Hearts of Iron III
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Jan 5, 2015 18:12
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Do you think Hitler would have discouraged or encouraged German poop porn?
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Jan 5, 2015 18:26
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Tsinava posted:Do you think Hitler would have discouraged or encouraged German poop porn? Well, if you want to be freudian, hitler and nazi medicine is all about sterile stuff. So, he probably was either touched as a kid, or not touched enough. Hitler needed a hug. Cause that's a thing right? The I can't get clean feeling?
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Jan 5, 2015 18:29
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there were a lot of things hitler that makes me go "why?"
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Jan 5, 2015 18:47
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Mr. Pumroy posted:there were a lot of things hitler that makes me go "why?" yeah like that mustache, other than that seemed like a pretty cool dude
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Jan 5, 2015 18:49
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*entire nation enacts grand strategy dreamed up by psychotic meth addict* *cut to 1945* how could this have happened
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Jan 5, 2015 18:49
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The germans lost the war because they thought Italy was competent and had a chance of supporting the German army in the war, when, in fact, Italy were basically a bunch of clowns who had no idea what to do and then the other brilliant ally Japan forces America directly into the war as well, ensuring that Germany would have to fight all the worlds superpowers on all fronts all on its own Germany had the worst allies ever
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Jan 5, 2015 18:51
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Disco Infiva posted:
It's true though. Russian girls can be superhot but mostly they're not and German girls are basically like scandinavian girls with a touch of south and eastern europe and it owns
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Jan 5, 2015 18:54
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lmao why the gently caress would italy support hitler anyways. italians are hardly even whtie people, they are also greasy and primitive as well.
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Jan 5, 2015 18:55
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the italians were allied to germany and austria-hungary at the time of ww1 but when poo poo went down they were like "haha gently caress that" and didn't join the war until 1915 and when they did it was on france and britain's side. and then hitler wanted to ally with them again? haha wtf ddude!!
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Jan 5, 2015 18:55
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Il Duce was a good lay so Hitler had no choice but to ally with him. See also my HitlerxMussolinixRommel fan fiction.
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Jan 5, 2015 20:48
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Tsinava posted:lmao why the gently caress would italy support hitler anyways. italians are hardly even whtie people, they are also greasy and primitive as well. not jewish? not slavic? youre ok, i guess, just remember who the real master race is and we'll make use of you
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Jan 5, 2015 20:53
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Tsinava posted:lmao why the gently caress would italy support hitler anyways. italians are hardly even whtie people, they are also greasy and primitive as well. Actually it was more Hitler looking up to Il Duce for most of the '30s as a political figurehead, and by the time 38/39 rolled around I think Mussolini and the gang realized they really didn't want to be on the wrong side of the crazy dude.
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Jan 5, 2015 20:59
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At least Franco was smart enough to only make war on his own citizens.
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Jan 6, 2015 01:48
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Damo posted:Genghis Khan owned, but his son/successor Ogedei was nearly as awesome. I believe he was an alcoholic and decided he'd curb his drinking by limiting himself to a certain number of cups a day, but then had special gigantic cups made to make up for it. ogedai was not even one one hundredth as awesome as genghis, he was a sickly bitch who drank because he had migraines constantly and spent most of his time in bed. thanks to genghis he had the best generals and advisers and gameplan to work from but the only khan even remotely comparable to genghis is kublai they killed ogedai's rad uncle (kublai's dad or granddad i think) for blood magic to revive him from a coma (this worked) which was a lovely exchange imo didn't some muslim or christian lady run the khanate most of his rule bc he was such always sleeping or drunk it's been a while since i read about all this stuff
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Jan 6, 2015 01:57
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Ambrose Burnside posted:*entire nation enacts grand strategy dreamed up by psychotic meth addict*
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Jan 6, 2015 02:07
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RonJeremysBalzac posted:At least Franco was smart enough to only make war on his own citizens. mussolini was, to his credit, actually intelligent and an actual political thinker, even if italy was clownshoes for the war hitler otoh was the weird guy who sat alone at the lunch table and talked to himself a lot, somehow given a nation franco was a mewling idiot who was just in it for the fashion 
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Jan 6, 2015 02:26
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Pornographic Memory posted:is this for real because even just a quick look at wikipedia will tell you this isn't true. even if you figure wikipedia cannot be trusted to be 100% accurate the numbers aren't even in the same ballpark manpower-wise, and you probably have to figure vehicle losses for the axis in north africa are inflated because of the italians being lovely and also major combatants (for a period THE major axis combatant) and the back and forth nature of the fighting leading to some vehicles being destroyed, repaired after the battlefield was secured, and destroyed again later, or captured from the enemy and destroyed, etc My brain switched those stats, and for some reason ran with it. You're absolutely right about Stalingrad vs. N. Africa casualties/prisoners. XMNN posted:nazi germany makes a lot more sense when you think of it as a decade long paranoid meth binge Or possibly untreated Syphilis taking its toll on ole Adolf.
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Jan 6, 2015 02:40
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read the russia.jpg thread on meth then pretend you are hitler.
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Jan 6, 2015 02:45
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Ambrose Burnside posted:mussolini was, to his credit, actually intelligent and an actual political thinker, even if italy was clownshoes for the war hitler would do a bunch of amphetamines and rant about how much it was the jews fault for the depression and it turns out when people are desperate all you really gotta do is inspire them and give them a target for their aggression and they can gently caress poo poo up
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Jan 6, 2015 02:55
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Disco Infiva posted:
maybe he means of women in their late 30s
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Jan 6, 2015 02:56
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WHAT A GOOD DOG posted:id rather a bunch of beer drinking germans than a bunch of vodka drinking russians  
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Jan 6, 2015 02:56
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Do the WW1 and the WW2 historians argue all time over which war was cooler and more awesome?
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Jan 6, 2015 02:58
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krampster2 posted:Do the WW1 and the WW2 historians argue all time over which war was cooler and more awesome? WW1 was both sides staring at each other from 100 yards away and gaining/losing a few meters for four years WW2 involved entire cities disappearing so take a guess WW1 had some cool cave drawings tho
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Jan 6, 2015 02:59
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krampster2 posted:Do the WW1 and the WW2 historians argue all time over which war was cooler and more awesome? WWII was just the bigger budget higher grossing sequel
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Jan 6, 2015 03:03
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WW1 was cool though for the fact no one had any idea what the gently caress they were doing and poo poo all about military tactics. I learnt that from Blackadder.
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Jan 6, 2015 03:06
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krampster2 posted:WW1 was cool though for the fact no one had any idea what the gently caress they were doing and poo poo all about military tactics. The German's plan was literally "we're going to overrun the french in a week and after they surrender we'll haul rear end across the country using our hella modern train infrastructure and smash the Russians with overwhelming force" but then the french were total cunts and refused to roll over and die so both sides dug themselves in then russia shows up and they dig in on that side too and boom you've got WW1
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Jan 6, 2015 03:08
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