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Welcome to hell. Population: Kid-me, eternally howling in rage.
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Jan 19, 2015 04:50
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| # ? May 9, 2024 12:52 |
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Yep. This dungeon is all kinds of awful. I think it's to make up for Borgan being easier. Especially the boss at the end.
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Jan 19, 2015 05:37
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Make sure you check the tapestry for the BEST BROMIDE EVER. I have no strong memories about the dungeon as compared to the stuff immediately surrounding it.
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Jan 19, 2015 07:17
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I don't remember it, but this dungeon looks pretty lovely.
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Jan 19, 2015 12:50
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This dungeon is pretty much the only part of this game that I cannot stand. Didn't help that 13 year old me got his poo poo wrecked by the boss a bunch of times. 
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Jan 19, 2015 16:06
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Camel Pimp posted:Borgan still floats.  Bring me that floating fat man, the Borgan!
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Jan 19, 2015 18:40
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Crowetron posted:...another dungeon. Cool. Great. I begin to see why you wanted to let this thread die a slow, quiet death. Too bad for you that you have LOYAL FANS. or something. 
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Jan 19, 2015 21:17
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Well, look, it's an RPG. What are you going to do, NOT have dungeons?
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Jan 20, 2015 06:32
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Glazius posted:Well, look, it's an RPG. What are you going to do, NOT have dungeons? I'm pretty sure to make a JRPG of any kind, you need: * a cave * a sewer * some sort of damage square dungeon (swamp or volcano will do) * a boss rush * at least two final boss forms
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Jan 20, 2015 20:22
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You forgot to mention teleporter mazes! Oh. Wait.
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Jan 20, 2015 20:31
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The one big thing I don't think I've ever seen absent from a JRPG is the stereotypical Ancient Civilization That Was Far More Advanced And Awesome Than The Current One But Somehow Fell To Ruin Despite Obviously Being Wiser And Better Than The Schmucks Of Today. Seriously, I just went and looked on the game collection on my shelf, and there's one of those in drat near every single one. I think the only exception is the real-world-based ones like Persona, and even that's debatable depending on what you believe about our world.
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Jan 21, 2015 05:06
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Out of everything named so far, I'm pretty sure the sewer and the teleporter maze are the only things that don't date back to Final Fantasy or Dragon Warrior.
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Jan 21, 2015 05:11
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I recall a teleporter maze in the first or second Ys game, so that's a pretty old gimmick too.
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Jan 21, 2015 05:14
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ultrafilter posted:Out of everything named so far, I'm pretty sure the sewer and the teleporter maze are the only things that don't date back to Final Fantasy or Dragon Warrior. If memory serves, wasn't there a teleporter maze in FF1? You know, the castle where you have to go to get a quest item for your class changes? Or maybe that was only in 8-Bit Theater, I'm not sure.
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Jan 21, 2015 05:14
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Bufuman posted:If memory serves, wasn't there a teleporter maze in FF1? You know, the castle where you have to go to get a quest item for your class changes? Or maybe that was only in 8-Bit Theater, I'm not sure. Yep, forgot about that one.
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Jan 21, 2015 05:16
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Oh, look, it's the dungeon that broke me as a child.  Never seen anything past it!
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Jan 21, 2015 09:53
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Mmmm. So we could probably pinpoint the game that introduced sewer dungeons. Off the cuff I remember one if the Mini dungeons in FFIII being basically a sewer. Are there any earlier ones in the genre?
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Jan 21, 2015 09:54
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CmdrKing posted:Mmmm. So we could probably pinpoint the game that introduced sewer dungeons. Off the cuff I remember one if the Mini dungeons in FFIII being basically a sewer. Are there any earlier ones in the genre? So I did some searching and found this article on giantbomb, which has a list of every game with a sewer level, starting with the most recent and going backwards (with some variance; there's a PSX game listed on the last page for some reason). I've never heard of some of those early ones, and looking at the earliest, I probably don't want to. The first really popular ones to do so were Super Mario Bros (I forgot that technically the underground levels are considered sewers) and Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles. The first RPG-like games to use them were Ys II and Lunar: The Silver Star (completely forgot about that one too!)
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Jan 21, 2015 10:38
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Bufuman posted:The one big thing I don't think I've ever seen absent from a JRPG is the stereotypical Ancient Civilization That Was Far More Advanced And Awesome Than The Current One But Somehow Fell To Ruin Despite Obviously Being Wiser And Better Than The Schmucks Of Today. In Ar Tonelico the super-advanced ancient civilization fell because despite being way more technologically advanced they really weren't any wiser than the people of the present day, and the villains of the games are just repeating their mistakes （or are the same exact people）, does that count? That developer (GUST) really loves their post-apocalyptic rebuilding settings.
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Jan 21, 2015 12:08
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Bufuman posted:The first RPG-like games to use them were Ys II and Lunar: The Silver Star (completely forgot about that one too!) Lunar: The Silver Star's sewer level is an earlier dungeons in the game (second or third, I think) and, IMO, isn't that bad. But sewer dungeons now have a reputation for being one of the most if not THE most (pun intended) lovely parts of any JRPG. The Fade is the Dragon Age equivalent to a sewer level.
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Jan 21, 2015 13:49
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Sewers in RPGs tend to have boring color palettes and designs. Most of the time they're the definition of a filler dungeon. It doesn't have to be that way. Hell, Chrono Trigger has a sewer level when you first arrive in the future. It didn't become a byword for terrible game design because it was fairly brief, straightforward and also because it was Chrono Trigger which is a drat near perfect JRPG. Personally, I believe the culprit was the one-two punch of Xenogears, followed immediately by FFVIII. Both have sewer levels so phenomenally ill-advised that the collective trauma in the gamer psyche persists to this day.
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Jan 21, 2015 17:50
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The Kislev sewers did have plot stuff going on and is an excellent place to grind money and exp. You also got a map that is badly needed.
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Jan 21, 2015 18:28
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Parasite Eve had 2 sewer levels: one short one right at the beginning and one stupid giant maze at the end of the first disk.
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Jan 21, 2015 18:34
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Bufuman posted:If memory serves, wasn't there a teleporter maze in FF1? You know, the castle where you have to go to get a quest item for your class changes? Or maybe that was only in 8-Bit Theater, I'm not sure. I know someone already confirmed this one, but I'd also say that the Marsh Cave in FF1 is pretty much a sewer dungeon by another name. Same kind of palette, typical sewer monsters, and layout.
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Jan 21, 2015 19:16
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ddegenha posted:I know someone already confirmed this one, but I'd also say that the Marsh Cave in FF1 is pretty much a sewer dungeon by another name. Same kind of palette, typical sewer monsters, and layout. There's an actual sewer level in FF2 as well.
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Jan 21, 2015 19:32
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One good sewer level was the one in Eternal Sonata. If I remember right, it was gorgeous, brightly-colored, and extremely short - like maybe two or three screens. Come to think of it, that sounds downright intentional.
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Jan 21, 2015 20:11
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Scalding Coffee posted:The Kislev sewers did have plot stuff going on and is an excellent place to grind money and exp. You also got a map that is badly needed.
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Jan 21, 2015 20:39
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Rangpur posted:Hell, Chrono Trigger has a sewer level when you first arrive in the future. It didn't become a byword for terrible game design because it was fairly brief, straightforward and also because it was Chrono Trigger which is a drat near perfect JRPG. It was also well done because it served a purpose for the story - it was the only way to access the continent to the south of the starting areas until you got the Epoch. None of the go in, do something, come back out exactly where you came in that quite a few of the later ones did (which is why we hate them.) This is why the FFVII sewers work and don't annoy, the rare times we see them - they're a Point A to Point B to pass through in less than five to ten minutes, not a place we're going to spend a few hours in. Rangpur posted:These are all accurate statements, but even so you're the only person I've met who didn't consider that section a low point of the game. Two people. I actually found Aquvy and Babel to be far more of a low point. Minus the Redrum fight, I actually mostly enjoyed Kislev and the battling.
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Jan 22, 2015 03:20
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Goddamn, Borgan cleared the room with those! Rangpur posted:These are all accurate statements, but even so you're the only person I've met who didn't consider that section a low point of the game. I tried playing Xenogears a few years ago, and that drat prison sewer broke me. That whole place in general broke me.
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Jan 22, 2015 03:20
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dis astranagant posted:Parasite Eve had 2 sewer levels: one short one right at the beginning and one stupid giant maze at the end of the first disk. please do not mention that dungeon in my thread, this is a happy place
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Jan 22, 2015 03:31
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Crowetron posted:please do not mention that dungeon in my thread, this is a happy place Until the next update traumatizes the readers that haven't played, and brings back repressed memories for the ones who have. 
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Jan 22, 2015 03:34
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Pieuvre posted:One good sewer level was the one in Eternal Sonata. If I remember right, it was gorgeous, brightly-colored, and extremely short - like maybe two or three screens. There was gameplay in Eternal Sonata?
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Jan 22, 2015 03:39
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ultrafilter posted:Out of everything named so far, I'm pretty sure the sewer and the teleporter maze are the only things that don't date back to Final Fantasy or Dragon Warrior. Given all the poison swamp out there, I'm willing to count the first half of the Earth cave as a prototypical sewer level. 
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Jan 22, 2015 03:55
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SorataYuy posted:Two people. I actually found Aquvy and Babel to be far more of a low point. Minus the Redrum fight, I actually mostly enjoyed Kislev and the battling.
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Jan 22, 2015 04:37
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The sewer level in Metal Gear Rising wasn't bad. But then, that game rules. I still wanted to see Jean punch a solid plug out of Borgan's stomach.
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Jan 22, 2015 04:40
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Crowetron posted:please do not mention that dungeon in my thread, this is a happy place That was bad but at least it wasn't the loving Chrysler Building.
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Jan 22, 2015 05:00
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Let's stop talking about the bad parts of PE and talk about the good parts: a pistol that doubles as a pocket artillery piece with the range of a sniper rifle firing acid cryo poison tranquilizer incendiary burst rounds nine times in a row out of your 115-round magazine. Also, being able to hit someone with a nightstick so hard you steal their wallet.
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Jan 22, 2015 05:32
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rotinaj posted:The sewer level in Metal Gear Rising wasn't bad. But then, that game rules. Nope, still bad. Whenever you go near the walls the camera flips out and you end up attacking the air next to the enemy if you're not careful. Psion posted:Let's stop talking about the bad parts of PE and talk about the good parts: a pistol that doubles as a pocket artillery piece with the range of a sniper rifle firing acid cryo poison tranquilizer incendiary burst rounds nine times in a row out of your 115-round magazine. More games need that.
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Jan 22, 2015 08:33
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Psion posted:Also, being able to hit someone with a nightstick so hard you steal their wallet. You can do that in real life, you know. The key is to aim for the head. And then rifle through their pockets.
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Jan 22, 2015 08:59
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Crowetron posted:please do not mention that dungeon in my thread, this is a happy place  : Yeah! A Happy place!
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Jan 22, 2015 13:23
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