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If you're wondering why I'm so wishy washy as to whether physical abuse is objectively worse than emotional abuse, for context a very close relative of mine abused his former partner into committing suicide without ever touching her or for the last six months of her life, being within whatever radius of her so maybe I'm a little biased by my own piece of poo poo family
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Jan 20, 2015 15:52
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CrazyTolradi you don't have to explain yourself to these arseholes. My god. Fruity and BB, often I roll my eyes at other posters stamping their feet at you for being nasty or hyperbolic because I don't believe that that kind of tone is inherently invalid. Some poo poo ought not to be taken seriously; there are some 'arguments' that to engage them earnestly would be flattery. Also it's OK to have a fucken personality and people shouldn't be huge fucken babbies all the time. But no matter what disagreements you've had with him previously and no matter how well you believe you've got his measure as a person, for a dude to post openly, honestly and relevantly about how he's suffered from domestic violence... the fucken responses you fucken shot back at him with overflowing confidence in your own righteousness... all fucken "WELL YOU SAY YOU'VE SUFFERED BUT LET ME TELL YOU WHY I'M STILL RIGHT AND WHY YOUR EXPERIENCES AREN'T ACTUALLY REAL AND YOU'RE A lovely PERSON FOR EVEN BRINGING IT UP" in the exact same manner of your worst tory shitheel enemies... I'm a little bit drunk (obviously, since I'm posting at all) but reading your posts just now has not just disappointed me but made me feel really ill. I am shocked. Your longtime critics will have to forgive me my naïveté. If I had a little more energy right now I would rage and if I had less I might cry. gently caress you guys. Fruity it was good and right of you to apologise but I wanted to say what I've said anyway. Remorse or not, actions have consequences. (For the same reason I hope I'm not wrong to be posting this. But I was really taken aback to read those responses to CrazyTolradi.) BB I'm sure you're grown up enough to be aware that apologies with no evident remorse or humility aren't actual apologies. I don't feel comfortable getting on my high horse to a couple of posters who contribute far more to this thread than I do, but like I said... I was really taken aback. Can you guys not hear yourselves?
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Jan 20, 2015 16:03
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"OTHERS HAVE SUFFERED WORSE THAN YOU, THEREFORE gently caress OFF," I mean jesus christ. The guy's not arguing in the fucken abstract; he's talking about his actual real life. It's not a fucken thought experiment. gently caress's sake. You can disagree with someone's argument while showing some sensitivity at the same time. Use your fucken head. Chicken Parmigiana fucked around with this message at 16:09 on Jan 20, 2015 |
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Jan 20, 2015 16:06
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Chicken Parmigiana posted:CrazyTolradi you don't have to explain yourself to these arseholes. My god. Yeah, I can hear myself, and it's why as soon as I'd finished posting my long rage post about toxic masculinity and seen Tirade quoting me and calling me out I went 'gently caress, yeah, that was really hosed up' and apologized because I shouldn't have shat on CT when he said he'd gone through some pretty bad trauma. You're drat right though, actions do have consequences. I'm pretty loving strident about women's oppression because I'm a feminist. I tend to get pretty polemical about it because I've been raped and experienced family violence. So when I read CT's post saying gendered violence isn't always gendered therefore it isn't gendered I wigged out and said something really loving nasty because I let the political aspect of his post overwhelm me and make me ignore the human aspect where he said that he'd experienced some pretty gnarly trauma. It was unfair because he never meant it to be personal, but the political is very personal to me when it comes to violence against women and I lashed out at him in a really gross way. I feel like this specific thing with me and CT might actually have been settled bc I he did accept my apology and I do know and readily admit that I was basically cruel with that response, and hopefully he knows that I do feel really bad about that. I resent the fact that you, CP, have decided to call me out again and make me explain myself after CrazyTolradi accepted my apology because what do you of all randoms loving want me to say? That I'll defend my bad behaviour to the death because I've got my own trauma to deal with? That I'll never post again because I should be eternally ashamed for making a cruel post that I feel really bad about making and have apologised for? I didn't mention anything about my own history earlier in the thread because it was loving irrelevant but now that I've been implicitly asked to explain myself it's unavoidable. I don't feel comfortable disclosing poo poo like that and I resent being made to feel like I have to. I'm glad you don't feel comfortable getting up on your high horse bc lmao you shouldn't. You don't have any business making GBS threads on me for something I've apologised for. CrazyTolradi can poo poo on me for it for as long as he wants to bc he was the one I was cruel to. You can't. Get hosed. Fruity Gordo fucked around with this message at 17:16 on Jan 20, 2015 |
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Jan 20, 2015 16:59
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Fruity is mounting a spirited comeback, can BB hold off this new challenge?
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Jan 20, 2015 17:12
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gently caress off, white noise.
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Jan 20, 2015 17:17
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I'm not the one who thought it was a good idea for even a second to make light of someone's abuse. Also your excuse for why you freaked out and decided that it was a good idea to make light of someone's abuse reads disturbingly similarly like victim blaming (e.g. the excuses people give when they hit their partners and children). So perhaps it is you that should gently caress off and take your attempts to turn this back on the people justly calling you out with you?
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Jan 20, 2015 17:24
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You're right Fruity; reading over that page again it's clear that things were already settled between you and Crazy and my post didn't have anything helpful to add to that. I'm sorry! Shoulda thought a little longer before posting; what a hypocrite, huh? For what it's worth (probably not much at this point), it's only because you're one of my favourite posters that I was so upset. I won't apologise for expressing how I felt because this thread is an open discussion; even if you address a post to one poster in particular, the rest of us are still allowed to comment. Also I can't accept that I in any way forced you to post about something that you'd rather not post about; that seems kind of absurd actually. But apart from that I think it's fair for you to be annoyed at me. Again: sorry. Minor sorries also to everyone reading through my shitposts in the morning.
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Jan 20, 2015 17:36
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I, a man, have scars from my ex, a woman, swinging a razor blade around when we lived together. Was that domestic abuse or just some crypto-MRA poo poo? Please tell me, because I've always been a bit confused about it. See, at first I thought I'd been cut up in my own home during a series of violent outbursts, but I was blind at the time. I didn't realise the fedora conspiracy had managed to manifest their ill will towards women as a physical object and come after me as part of a false-flag attack to delegitimise womens' reports of domestic violence. It all makes so much more sense now. You can say men are sometimes assaulted without dismissing the notion that women are disproportionately victimised. It isn't zero-sum and it isn't the loving oppression olympics; stop trying to find a winner and stop trying to quantify individual experiences. loving hell. The intended audience of that poorly worded Facebook post wasn't the general public. It was the small number of men who are in that situation and don't feel like they can get help because everyone will take the piss out of them for not being "real men" and fighting back. In other words, it was a poorly executed attempt at dealing with the fallout of the exact thing you're talking about now; toxic masculinity. You missed that though because you were too busy trying to rack up a new high score on Outrage Hunter. Chicken Parmigiana posted:Minor sorries also to everyone reading through my shitposts in the morning. Your posts own. Don't apologise. Smegmatron fucked around with this message at 22:55 on Jan 20, 2015 |
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Jan 20, 2015 22:40
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I think that we can all agree that cis white males deserve whatever they get.
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Jan 20, 2015 23:11
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Jumping to the worst conclusion over the use of ambiguous language has to be a staple of bad faith arguments right? Just because the press release says "it doesn't discriminate" doesn't automatically mean they're screaming "MEN GET ABUSED JUST AS MUCH AND JUST AS BAD AS WOMEN OKAY!" They probably could have iterated over that line a bit to get a clearer statement, but assuming they're trying to belittle women's experience is just ... I mean, who do you think in the community sees domestic violence more frequently than police officers?
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Jan 20, 2015 23:19
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Shadeoses posted:I think that we can all agree that cis white males deserve whatever they get. Oh...okay.  Edit Together Union put out a funny spoof of the LNPs canoe ad. http://youtu.be/YN1uiFlqpkE Anidav fucked around with this message at 23:52 on Jan 20, 2015 |
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Jan 20, 2015 23:19
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QLD LNP gonna LNP: https://www.facebook.com/newmanshame/photos/a.267429246705798.59715.265205820261474/726792147436170/?type=1&pnref=story Seriously, I'm trying to fathom the mindset here, but I keep getting stuck on four letter words.
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Jan 21, 2015 00:13
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SadisTech posted:QLD LNP gonna LNP: I wonder why there were police at the last LNP street party and not this one. What's changed?
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Jan 21, 2015 00:16
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MC Eating Disorder posted:If you're wondering why I'm so wishy washy as to whether physical abuse is objectively worse than emotional abuse, for context a very close relative of mine abused his former partner into committing suicide without ever touching her or for the last six months of her life, being within whatever radius of her so maybe I'm a little biased by my own piece of poo poo family Why can't they just both be loving heinous things with awful consequences that we would like to prevent? Why does it matter which is objectively worse?
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Jan 21, 2015 01:15
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starkebn posted:Jumping to the worst conclusion over the use of ambiguous language has to be a staple of bad faith arguments right? Just because the press release says "it doesn't discriminate" doesn't automatically mean they're screaming "MEN GET ABUSED JUST AS MUCH AND JUST AS BAD AS WOMEN OKAY!" Holy poo poo. I kind of get what you're saying but if you're making a speech on racial integration and in that speech imply that whites are as much a victim of racism as anyone else that is a bad loving speech. I don't care that your intent was good, I don't care that you were trying to send a good message what you have literally said is undermining the severity of a problem that causes a fuckload of suffering in society. Yes the police could have "iterated" that part of it to make it clearer but THEY loving DIDN'T. I could have iterated the part of my speech about economics when I said "Hitler did nothing wrong" to make it clearer that I was talking about economic management, but whoops I loving didn't and THE THING I ACTUALLY SAID REGARDLESS OF INTENT WAS loving OFFENSIVE. The fact that the NSW police (who should post things that have already been iterated) have still not changed this poo poo wording says a lot. Finally you end with making an appeal to authority. The authority you appeal to is the NSW police force, and the issue on which you appeal to them is a social one. I presume you also think that they are best placed to comment on aboriginal incarceration rates since they're the ones arresting all the aboriginals. Frankly, there are other loving problems with this post I just pointed out the worst part. I like the stereotype of domestic violence with women screaming and glass breaking, because reinforcing that stereotype sure is a great way to raise awareness about violence which can be totally silent. There is a good message at the core of this, men can be victims of domestic violence too, and people should be aware of that, and look out for people, because nobody deserves to be the victim of domestic violence, but the delivery was completely hosed and rightly should be criticised as it's hosed statements like these that are a symptom and contributor to our loving broken social attitudes towards women. The fact that this thread, which is a pretty progressive and smart place, has had such difficulty getting it's collective head around this is telling as gently caress about the view our society takes on women. 
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Jan 21, 2015 02:09
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Smegmatron posted:Why can't they just both be loving heinous things with awful consequences that we would like to prevent? Why does it matter which is objectively worse? they can, I was being facetious but thank you for putting it in a more straightforward manner
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Jan 21, 2015 02:12
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Yeah, I think waiting till feb to start reading again is the right idea.
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Jan 21, 2015 02:16
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http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2015/jan/20/australian-government-seeks-to-opt-out-of-protection-of-five-shark-speciesquote:Australian government seeks to opt out of protection of five shark species More embarrassingly regressive environmental policy. quote:A spokesman for the federal environment minister, Greg Hunt, said the government’s move was to avoid “unintended consequences” for fishers in Australia, who would risk being fined up to $170,000 and face two years in jail even if they obeyed their permits.
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Jan 21, 2015 02:35
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Oh my god https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VuBk3pSz1H4
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Jan 21, 2015 02:48
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HI I'M YOUR NEW HOUSEKEEPER FROM THE PHILIPPINES this is how people actually talk
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Jan 21, 2015 02:53
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is this meant to look like one of mad as hell's parodies
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Jan 21, 2015 02:55
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hooman posted:There is a good message at the core of this, men can be victims of domestic violence too, and people should be aware of that, and look out for people, because nobody deserves to be the victim of domestic violence, but the delivery was completely hosed and rightly should be criticised as it's hosed statements like these that are a symptom and contributor to our loving broken social attitudes towards women. This is what I'm getting at. Their trying to put out a message to foster a bit of awareness. Immediately frothing at the mouth and going off your tree makes you look like a loony sjw instead of showing there are ways of them improving the message. Somewhere in the NSW police PR unit someone is trying to break down the stupid macho male silence issue, and your style of comment isn't constructive.
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Jan 21, 2015 02:57
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This is actually making me feel a little ill. Also just assume I'm nodding along to everything starkebn says.
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Jan 21, 2015 03:12
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Anything on commercial TV makes me sick
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Jan 21, 2015 03:16
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starkebn posted:This is what I'm getting at. Their trying to put out a message to foster a bit of awareness. Immediately frothing at the mouth and going off your tree makes you look like a loony sjw instead of showing there are ways of them improving the message. Do you understand that when you include a bad message in with your good message this undermines your good message terribly because people are going to quite rightly be pointing at the bad message and going holy poo poo. The fault here isn't with the people that are pointing out the god drat bad message, as a society we have a loving obligation to point out bad things, the fault is with the people who are including a bad message with a good message in the first place. I don't know what to say to you if you think that just because you're saying something good you get a free pass on saying something bad. Or that the people who are criticising the bad thing you said are somehow at fault for the your good message not getting through. Reacting to bad messages with silence is giving tacit approval of those views. This is the difference between not being racist and being anti-racist.
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Jan 21, 2015 03:24
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 Queensland.
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Jan 21, 2015 03:27
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starkebn posted:This is what I'm getting at. Their trying to put out a message to foster a bit of awareness. Immediately frothing at the mouth and going off your tree makes you look like a loony sjw instead of showing there are ways of them improving the message. Stop using the acronym SJW if you want your argument to be taken with even the tiniest vestige of sincerity. The fact that fighting for social justice can be intended as a pejorative speaks volumes about the fuckwits who use it thus.
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Jan 21, 2015 03:28
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If not for having Sam Neil in it, I would have thought this was a sketch.
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Jan 21, 2015 03:29
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hooman posted:Do you understand that when you include a bad message in with your good message this undermines your good message terribly because people are going to quite rightly be pointing at the bad message and going holy poo poo. Actually you do get points for trying, because if you stop giving points for trying then people are likely to stop loving trying aren't they? And I think any normal reasonable person is going to read that and take from it 'oh yeah men can be abused too sometimes' and not 'OH WELL MEN GET ABUSED TOO WHO CARES IF WOMEN GET ABUSED gently caress THEM RARGH'. Do you honestly think that people are going to read "Domestic violence does not discriminate" and take from that that men are abused equally as much as women. or that women abuse equally as much as men. Seriously? This really doesn't undermine feminism anywhere near as much as your frothing at the mouth response to it does.
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Jan 21, 2015 03:30
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What the gently caress is that? Are they trying to HUMANIZE a person who wants to pay us 2 dollars a day?
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Jan 21, 2015 03:30
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Anidav posted:What the gently caress is that? Are they trying to HUMANIZE a person who wants to pay us 2 dollars a day? Yes. We must love our new overlords.
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Jan 21, 2015 03:33
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Judging by the preview it's not written so as to portray her as some sort of hero. Maybe if it was on Channel 10.
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Jan 21, 2015 03:34
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I'd like to put my name down to write the OP for March with a NSW State election theme. I'm going to do writeups and analysis of the major political players and maybe some info about how the Greens NSW organise. Now on QLD news: http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...v-1227191140671 quote:Queensland voters can do without Sydney shock-jocks like Alan Jones telling us what to think
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Jan 21, 2015 03:39
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Waaaah the Christians are out to get me
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Turks posted:Do you honestly think that people are going to read "Domestic violence does not discriminate" and take from that that men are abused equally as much as women. or that women abuse equally as much as men. Seriously? Yes, actually. This is a common belief spouted by MRAs and anti-feminists and it's taken a disturbing amount of root.
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Jan 21, 2015 03:40
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Turks posted:Do you honestly think that people are going to read "Domestic violence does not discriminate" and take from that that men are abused equally as much as women. or that women abuse equally as much as men. Yes. Turks posted:Actually you do get points for trying, because if you stop giving points for trying then people are likely to stop loving trying aren't they? Not if they actually give a gently caress. Turks posted:And I think any normal reasonable person is going to read that and take from it 'oh yeah men can be abused too sometimes' and not 'OH WELL MEN GET ABUSED TOO WHO CARES IF WOMEN GET ABUSED gently caress THEM RARGH'. I'm not saying and have never said the second one. I'm saying that when the police say "Domestic violence does not discriminate" that this is loving incorrect and undermines the change that we need to foster within our attitudes as a society about violence against women. If the police made a post about raising awareness that sometimes white people suffer from racism and had in it "Racism does not discriminate" would you be defending that as well? Turks posted:Seriously? This really doesn't undermine feminism anywhere near as much as your frothing at the mouth response to it does. Being critical of things that minimise the huge gap between men and women for domestic violence is undermining feminism. Cool.
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Jan 21, 2015 03:49
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Quantum Mechanic posted:Yes, actually. This is a common belief spouted by MRAs and anti-feminists and it's taken a disturbing amount of root. Do not concern yourself with MRAs and anti feminists, no matter how right you get it they will still be assholes. The question is what Joe Blogs, regular ordinary guy think?
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Jan 21, 2015 03:49
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What are you guys even arguing about now? Everyone agrees the message was well intended but poorly worded.
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Jan 21, 2015 03:51
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We are arguing about whether they hosed the message up so badly that it is somehow making people go full retard and deciding that men really do have it as bad as women. I am on the side of no.
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Jan 21, 2015 03:53
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Turks posted:Do not concern yourself with MRAs and anti feminists, no matter how right you get it they will still be assholes. Regular ordinary guy is the precursor to MRA. Dumb, intellectually incurious, vulnerable to misdirection and guile. MRAs will use what the police wow in their propaganda war. This is why the list was highly problematic
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Jan 21, 2015 03:53
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