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Hexyflexy posted:That soviet b29 copy was.. Interesting! "Right, we don't get this, so we'll copy things that are obviously patches to the superstructure" which made sense at the time. I thought Stalin ordered the engineers to create and EXACT copy of the B-29 so the the engineers did copy everything including obvious patches/defects because  .
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Jan 31, 2015 00:07
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How did three B-29 (+ one crashed example) end up all have the same patched areas at the same spot?
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Jan 31, 2015 00:52
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MH Knights posted:I thought Stalin ordered the engineers to create and EXACT copy of the B-29 so the the engineers did copy everything including obvious patches/defects because Not exactly due to the difference in technology the soviets had to adapt many things from the design to local engineering instead of just making a carbon copy.
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Jan 31, 2015 01:26
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Did they really copy the Boeing logo off of one of the rudder pedals too?
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Jan 31, 2015 02:44
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so the bad news is that the chinese hacked our new warplane plans but the good news is that it was the f35 got it
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Jan 31, 2015 07:39
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I hope they can fix it and work out the kinks so we can steal it back at least naem fucked around with this message at 08:33 on Jan 31, 2015 |
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Jan 31, 2015 08:15
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etalian posted:Not exactly due to the difference in technology the soviets had to adapt many things from the design to local engineering instead of just making a carbon copy. They needed express permission for that, though - for example, using Soviet parachutes needed approval from a general.
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Jan 31, 2015 09:23
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Hexyflexy posted:That soviet b29 copy was.. Interesting! "Right, we don't get this, so we'll copy things that are obviously patches to the superstructure" which made sense at the time. I'm interested what the Chinese pulled on the f35, not that I'll ever know, lockmart won't say anything, and there's no way the Chinese would. The bolded part is the single biggest "win" they could have pulled, but I doubt that was something they got. Them stealing the F-35 plans gives them the ability to skip a few years of development in certain areas. Like you mentioned, those engines might as well be martial reactors, as they don't have anything close to this level of technology to make something with those kids of tolerances and reliability, with anything approaching the weight and power output. There is a reason why they are still using Russian engines, which themselves are also decades behind when it comes to longevity. The F-35 plans will give them some new ideas that they can use in their next airframe. Regarding the supposed B-2 plans being stolen? It's very similar to the Russian's getting the B-29 planes. When they got a close look at it (B-29) the Soviets realized that their current manufacturing industry was incapable of creating such a thing, and massive changes on a national level would have to be made for them to approach being able to produce the millions of parts necessary. They had to retool current factories and build a ton of new ones just to make an aircraft that Boeing was able make itself. It's pretty crazy to imagine that an entire nation had to make a concious effort to do something that one US company was doing. With the B-2, the Chinese are pretty much in the same boat. They have neither the facilities, know-how, or technical ability to make such an aircraft unless the government steps in and says, "this is a national priority, and we are going to outright take over current factories and build new ones to make this happen. Also there is a reason that the US has more super-carriers than B-2's, because they are gently caress-off expensive, and that alone is pretty much the best copy-protection you could ever have. Like I said before, all the Chinese can get from these stolen plans are a few pointers that might save them a few prototypes for different components. Basically they sat down at a table in a restaurant and one of those kiddie maze place mats has already been 8% filled in.
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Jan 31, 2015 15:20
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Blistex posted:Them stealing the F-35 plans gives them the ability to skip a few years of development in certain areas. Like you mentioned, those engines might as well be martial reactors, as they don't have anything close to this level of technology to make something with those kids of tolerances and reliability, with anything approaching the weight and power output. There is a reason why they are still using Russian engines, which themselves are also decades behind when it comes to longevity. The F-35 plans will give them some new ideas that they can use in their next airframe. It seems that Pratt & Whitney also have problems at the moment getting that part right.
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Jan 31, 2015 15:39
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Blistex posted:Like I said before, all the Chinese can get from these stolen plans are a few pointers that might save them a few prototypes for different components. Basically they sat down at a table in a restaurant and one of those kiddie maze place mats has already been 8% filled in. The best clever Soviet story is when they convince the British to sell them a start of the art jet engine, while promising the british jet engine it wouldn't be used for military uses. Instead they managed to reverse engineer the whole thing, saving them massive amounts of design and manufacturing process effort. It was one of the reasons why the MIG-15 had such astounding performance.
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Jan 31, 2015 16:39
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They had sponges on the bottom of their shoes to pick up metal shavings in the factory for later analysis.
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Jan 31, 2015 17:02
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Cojawfee posted:They had sponges on the bottom of their shoes to pick up metal shavings in the factory for later analysis. Clever slavs also didn't pay any royalties for basically reverse engineering the whole jet engine. Stalin even wondered during the whole thing, "Are they really stupid enough to sell their secrets?"
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Jan 31, 2015 17:04
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It was doubly hilarious because while the UK and Germany were developing jet engines, they were along different engineering paths. USSR didn't have a jet program because they were having enough trouble teching up anyway. So, when the soviets overran Germany and captured scientists, schematics and prototypes, they suddenly had enough to jumpstart a modern jet fighter program. Unfortunately, the type of jet engines the Germans had invested in were a dead end, which was unknown because they had been knocked out of the war before it became apparent. So just as the Cold War was starting to ramp up, they realised that their jet engines were poo poo and useless. So they daringly tricked the British into giving them fully functional proper jet engines.
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Jan 31, 2015 17:19
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etalian posted:Clever slavs also didn't pay any royalties for basically reverse engineering the whole jet engine. this is pretty much the same situation with china now and the answer is "yes"
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Jan 31, 2015 17:19
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Shadeoses posted:It was doubly hilarious because while the UK and Germany were developing jet engines, they were along different engineering paths. USSR didn't have a jet program because they were having enough trouble teching up anyway. So, when the soviets overran Germany and captured scientists, schematics and prototypes, they suddenly had enough to jumpstart a modern jet fighter program. Even better they purchased just a few engines and then reverse engineered the whole design without paying a single sent in royalties.
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Jan 31, 2015 17:58
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old dog child posted:How do you know? It wouldn't be the first time an American plane was copied. You might want to look up the B-29! Blistex posted:Regarding the supposed B-2 plans being stolen? It's very similar to the Russian's getting the B-29 planes. When they got a close look at it (B-29) the Soviets realized that their current manufacturing industry was incapable of creating such a thing, and massive changes on a national level would have to be made for them to approach being able to produce the millions of parts necessary. They had to retool current factories and build a ton of new ones just to make an aircraft that Boeing was able make itself. It's pretty crazy to imagine that an entire nation had to make a concious effort to do something that one US company was doing.
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Jan 31, 2015 18:24
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Blistex posted:Also there is a reason that the US has more super-carriers than B-2's, because they are gently caress-off expensive, and that alone is pretty much the best copy-protection you could ever have. They don't though. US built 21 B-2's and 20 are still active. They have 10 active super carriers and 2 under construction. Unless you want to count the wasp class as super carriers which they are not.
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Jan 31, 2015 18:32
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I'm Crap posted:the b-29 wasn't the result of one plucky american company run by noble job creators just putting something together overnight, it was the result of a massive national program that cost 7 or 8 times as much as the manhattan project. it was a massive leap forward and america had to make a huge effort to get the thing built too. The point being that the entire aviation industry in Russia had to be re-tasked to do this as they had never attempted something this ambitious, while the US (Boeing) was able to produce over a thousand a year (yes they used subcontractors), but it's not like Consolidated, Republic, Grumman, and all the others had to drop what they were doing and prioritize the B-29. NihilismNow posted:They don't though. US built 21 B-2's and 20 are still active. They have 10 active super carriers and 2 under construction. Yah, I meant "Built", and on further reflection, the Midways were not super carriers, despite the angled flight decks, so B-2's win by 2, as opposed to losing by 1.
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Jan 31, 2015 19:16
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Blistex posted:The point being that the entire aviation industry in Russia had to be re-tasked to do this as they had never attempted something this ambitious, while the US (Boeing) was able to produce over a thousand a year (yes they used subcontractors), but it's not like Consolidated, Republic, Grumman, and all the others had to drop what they were doing and prioritize the B-29. They also didn't have to rebuild their complete industry a year prior because it was overrun by the nazis.
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Jan 31, 2015 19:35
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Blistex posted:The point being that the entire aviation industry in Russia had to be re-tasked to do this as they had never attempted something this ambitious, while the US (Boeing) was able to produce over a thousand a year (yes they used subcontractors), but it's not like Consolidated, Republic, Grumman, and all the others had to drop what they were doing and prioritize the B-29.
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Jan 31, 2015 19:41
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I'm Crap posted:presuming we're talking about the j-30: it's twice the size of the f-35, it's not stovl, it appears to be for a very specific long-range patrol mission, etc. it's in no way like a b-29 and tu-4 scenario or whatever. maybe some of the technology made it in, but maybe not, because as these threads have made clear, the ultra high-tech buttfuck approach taken with the f-22 and f-35 offers dubious value for money. You're talking about the J-20. The J-31 is the F-35 knockoff (why oh why did they not go all-out and call it the J-35, that would have been glorious). Yes, China is developing two not-really-stealthy planes (see e.g. the engines sticking out the tail).
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Jan 31, 2015 20:28
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I CANNOT EJACULATE WITHOUT SEEING NATIVE AMERICANS BRUTALISED!
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blowfish posted:You're talking about the J-20. The J-31 is the F-35 knockoff (why oh why did they not go all-out and call it the J-35, that would have been glorious).
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Jan 31, 2015 20:40
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 Goodbye, sweet, expensive prince.
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Jan 31, 2015 21:12
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A Handed Missus posted:
I think they're trying encasing it in Carbonite.
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Jan 31, 2015 21:31
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Feindfeuer posted:It seems that Pratt & Whitney also have problems at the moment getting that part right. It's fairly common for engines to have issues like that. The F-404-400/402's I worked on were at over 120 power plant changes in 2010, either minor or significant, and they put out 1-2 a year easily. It can be small poo poo like relocating a clamp so it doesn't rub on a cable, moving casters on the actuating ring in the exhaust nozzle to give it more longevity or flat out replacing parts. There's a ton of poo poo you just can't predict and you have to beat the engine to poo poo a few hundred times to sort it out. gently caress they added an entire bearing assembly to the J52 a few years after it was introduced to extend the longevity of the engine. They literally call it the 4 1/2 bearing.
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Jan 31, 2015 21:41
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Shadeoses posted:It was doubly hilarious because while the UK and Germany were developing jet engines, they were along different engineering paths. USSR didn't have a jet program because they were having enough trouble teching up anyway. So, when the soviets overran Germany and captured scientists, schematics and prototypes, they suddenly had enough to jumpstart a modern jet fighter program. yes. where can i read more about this? edit: \/\/\/\/ also they could float in water without damaging the plane itself thathonkey fucked around with this message at 22:53 on Jan 31, 2015 |
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Jan 31, 2015 21:47
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Spaced God posted:I think they're trying encasing it in Carbonite. Encasing the F-35s in carbonite will keep them from randomly catching fire before the engineers can fix them.
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Jan 31, 2015 22:49
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They hope to preserve tye plane through cryonics until someday im the future science advamces to where they find cures for its many ailments.
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Jan 31, 2015 22:53
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A Handed Missus posted:
It will be thawed some time in the future when science has found a cure for its awfulness ^^ Otisburg posted:They hope to preserve tye plane through cryonics until someday im the future science advamces to where they find cures for its many ailments. drat you!
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Jan 31, 2015 22:56
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Otisburg posted:They hope to preserve tye plane through cryonics until someday im the future science advamces to where they find cures for its many ailments. 
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Jan 31, 2015 23:09
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Shadeoses posted:
What type were they going with vs british?
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Feb 1, 2015 00:09
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Otisburg posted:They hope to preserve tye plane through cryonics until someday im the future science advamces to where they find cures for its many ailments.
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Feb 1, 2015 00:11
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EMILY BLUNTS posted:What type were they going with vs british? The german development path tended to produce high performance axial flow engines but on the flip side had much reliability problems/required more frequent engine overhaul. On the flip side the british in their crash course approach managed to produce designs which were lower performance but had more higher reliability due to the more simple elegant design. http://thefutureofthings.com/3809-jet-engine-development-in-germany/ etalian fucked around with this message at 00:24 on Feb 1, 2015 |
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Feb 1, 2015 00:17
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 Lockmart is spending all that money on Photoshop, but they still forget the fire.
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Feb 3, 2015 14:49
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I want to believe
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Feb 3, 2015 14:58
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A Handed Missus posted:
 Guys I think it is real. It can fly?
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Feb 3, 2015 15:56
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A Handed Missus posted:
gotta admit it's kinda hot though
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Feb 3, 2015 15:58
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A Handed Missus posted:
if you look close over the white hangar behind the plane's butt you can see where they cleverly used the blur tool to make it look like it has a working engine
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Feb 3, 2015 16:02
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they should have added some speed lines
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Feb 3, 2015 16:16
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A Handed Missus posted:
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Feb 3, 2015 16:17
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