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Pretty sure it is still 6 hp per turn IN ADDITION TO: - The unit has fast healing (an additional 6 hp per turn) - The leader of the stack has a skill or item that adds additional healing (these should all be obvious when you click the hero and look) - The stack runs over a tile that explicitly heals the units - You rest in a city with a hospital I am a bit fuzzy but I think units with individual fast healing will stack with leaders who have the group-wide fast healing too, so 18 hp/turn? Don't quote me on this particular line, I usually stop paying attention once I give the leader the relevant group-heal skill (I think everyone outside of maybe Draconians rush this skill).
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Mar 13, 2015 21:18
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Also: - Orcs recover 6HP every time they win a fight. - At the end of each turn units with the Healing combat ability restore 20HP evenly around their stack.
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Mar 13, 2015 21:23
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What about hospitals and masters guilds? I've had Juggernauts with 200 hp get fully healed over 3 turns or so.
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Mar 13, 2015 21:24
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Let's see: -All units heal 6 HP at the beginning of a turn except for undead/machines -Units with Fast Healing (inherent to Draconians and all heroes) heal an additional 6 -Fast Healing can also be granted by Warlord, Theocrat and Druid heroes, and the Theocrat global spell, Prayer for the hurt. I don't think any sources stack, but I'm not sure -Orcs heal 6 after every won battle -Goblins heal another 9 (15 total) at the beginning of a turn if in wetlands -A unit with an in-combat healing ability will heal viable units in its stack for the total amount of a single casting. IE, if a unit has Healing (20 HP) in a stack with 5 injured units, they'll heal 4 HP each -Units with Regrowth (trolls, earth elementals, naga gluttons) heal 20% of their HP per combat round and heal fully at the beginning of a turn I wanna say there's an abilty to heal all HP at the beginning of a turn, but it escapes me right now. I don't think any unit has it. The patch gave engineers the Maintenance skill, which heals machines in its stack for 3 HP a turn. I'm sure the expansion will introduce a bunch of mechanics for topping up undead units. E: Also hospitals and master's guilds restore their respective units, but I've never used them.
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Mar 13, 2015 21:24
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Kajeesus posted:-A unit with an in-combat healing ability will heal viable units in its stack for the total amount of a single casting. IE, if a unit has Healing (20 HP) in a stack with 5 injured units, they'll heal 4 HP each
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Mar 13, 2015 21:41
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I believe Master Guilds and Hospitals are percentage based. Fast Healing from different sources is infinitely stackable. Also some units have Regeneration, which heals them to full (Technically, 1,000 HP) every turn on the strategic map. It's the weaker cousin to regrowth, most units that have regeneration have both.
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Mar 13, 2015 21:42
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Rascyc posted:Wow I feel like an idiot turn-scum healing in the very early game when I don't want to stop in between battles. I think that's a new change for the beta though? I definitely remember for a good while healing in-combat didn't have any out of combat healing.
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Mar 13, 2015 21:44
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Malachamavet posted:I think that's a new change for the beta though? I definitely remember for a good while healing in-combat didn't have any out of combat healing. I think Healing (Hero/Theocrat unit ability) always did, but the other healing abilities (Bestow Iron Heart and such) didn't until it was patched in with Golden Realms. It's not like it's not still better to use it in combat and get the turn bonus though! 
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Mar 13, 2015 21:50
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madmac posted:(Technically, 1,000 HP) And so the quest for a Champion x 100 unit begins 
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Mar 13, 2015 21:51
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/\ /\madmac posted:(Technically, 1,000 HP)
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Mar 13, 2015 21:59
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Playing a multiplayer game (not PBEM), this just happened:  The time remaining for me to buy them into my empire is going "up".
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Mar 14, 2015 00:16
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Orv posted:Mechanical changes, none of the new hard content. Man, and I was looking forward to having fun with a bunch of hot pussies  Splicer posted:Well I have a new goal. So do I!
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Mar 14, 2015 09:47
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When setting up a random map game, whats the game flow option that handles monster lairs like bandit camps?
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Mar 14, 2015 13:19
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Thyrork posted:When setting up a random map game, whats the game flow option that handles monster lairs like bandit camps? Should be "roaming units" I believe the slider just determines how many of them spawn, though increased defender strength will also up the number of guards. The spawn timing itself is set in stone.
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Mar 14, 2015 13:26
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I like that the tooltips are vastly improved in the new version - will it ever be possible to have a 'normal' building's unlocked units directly visible through the encyclopedia?
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Mar 14, 2015 15:38
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Hey mac, is it really possible to play as a "good" necro and use the new racial stuff? It looked like they couldn't absorb living cities at all, so their racial happiness would only get worse as you play. Can you just make a rolling sea of vassals if you want to go for culture as a necro? It just seemed weird the new class looks like it can't utilize the new mechanics there. I am basing this entirely off the tome of wonders entry on necromancers that says necros can't absorb living cities. Are diplomatic relations affected not only by relative military power, but what you do with it? I just had an angry indie town offer peace, open borders, and vassalage all at once when I rolled up with overwhelming force. Carnalfex fucked around with this message at 17:23 on Mar 14, 2015 |
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Mar 14, 2015 16:55
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I think a necro can absorb cities, the undeadening of the inhabitants is optional. You can play a necro with no ghouled cities if you like. Or you can keep all the orc cities and zombify the rest making the orcs love you and everyone else hate you. I finally got to play the new beta mechanics and I am absolutely loving vassals. They've completely changed the game for me in a very good way. However, what's really fixed one of my biggest grievances with the game is the "hero with most part buffs is leader" change. It's made it so much easier to run (caster + buffer + 4 units) stacks it's unreal. Splicer fucked around with this message at 17:48 on Mar 14, 2015 |
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Mar 14, 2015 17:31
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Carnalfex posted:Hey mac, is it really possible to play as a "good" necro and use the new racial stuff? It looked like they couldn't absorb living cities at all, so their racial happiness would only get worse as you play. Necromancer can absorb cities without attacking or declaring war on them, but they are ghoulified in the process. The intent is basically to make it impossible for the Necromancer to have living cities, though vassals do remain living until you absorb them. Basically think of it as spreading the joy of eternal life through death everywhere you go. Note that a city of ghouled elves are still considered elves for all intents and purposes including racial happiness! They don't lose their race when they become zombies. Going with the cultural victory with Necromancy is possible, though it's still probably the worst class for it for a variety of nitpicky mechanical reasons I can't go into right now. quote:I think a necro can absorb cities, the undeadening of the inhabitants is optional. You can play a necro with no ghouled cities if you like. Or you can keep all the orc cities and zombify the rest making the orcs love you and everyone else hate you. Having living cities was an option early in the beta but it was absolutely terrible mechanically. Practically all the Necromancers mechanics hinge off of undead, the living are just a burden on them. That said, the vassal system pretty much fixes this because you can just have a core of undead cities and leave the rest as vassals, so even roleplaying a good Necromancer is pretty doable. I'll say no more about Necromancers don't ask!
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Mar 14, 2015 17:43
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Necromancers can't actually own with living cities, their absorb operation transforms the city into an undead city. They can have living vassals, but the moment the city joins their empire it becomes undead. Race happiness doesn't affect Necromancers, and city happiness doesn't affect undead cities, so you don't need to worry about that. In theory you can play a good necromancer, since there's no alignment penalty for absorbing and making a city undead, as long as you don't migrate cities or raze and then reanimate them, you're safe. The original design did actually have the whole undead cities thing being optional, you would start off with a living empire, and then slowly learn skills to transform your realm into an empire of the undead. The problem was, all the player's thought it was really confusing and unsatisfying. It was hard to know when to start transitioning into undead cities/units, you ended up with lots of theory crafting balancing the various economic bonuses of undead vs living cities, which wasn't much fun really. Also, players were complaining it took too long to get their hands on an undead army, since you needed undead cities to produce undead units. In the end, we redesigned it so that Necromancer was pretty much all undead/all the time. It made the class much easier to understand and to play, and took out a lot of the confusing gamey elements of the whole thing. It's sad in a way, since the original design was pretty cool, and quite a fresh take on the whole undead faction. Thematically it was great, but mechanically it was pretty much dead on arrival and needed to go. Edit: madmac
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Mar 14, 2015 17:48
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Fair enough, I was going off the initial dev blogs which said ghoulifying was an option like migrating or razing. I can see why that could have had issues. Since I have gained Gerblyn's attention, I have a bug or feature query: Is the "Cower in fear" supposed to take into account all surrounding hexes or just the one that the attack is coming from? In the below staged example:  Attacking with the 2 man army results in a straight fight, attacking with the 6 man results in the good/evil choice dialogue. Shifting a unit from the 6 to the 2 results in straight combat either way. I think it's always been this way, I just didn't notice the pattern until earlier today. It seems like a really easy way to game Goodness, since you can avoid every taking the Evil penalty by making sure to attack with a weak stack with a big one as backup. Splicer fucked around with this message at 17:52 on Mar 14, 2015 |
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Mar 14, 2015 17:49
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madmac posted:Necromancer can absorb cities without attacking or declaring war on them, but they are ghoulified in the process. The intent is basically to make it impossible for the Necromancer to have living cities, though vassals do remain living until you absorb them. Basically think of it as spreading the joy of eternal life through death everywhere you go. Note that a city of ghouled elves are still considered elves for all intents and purposes including racial happiness! They don't lose their race when they become zombies. So if a Necromancer city is captured by a non-Necromancer, does the population instantly un-ghoulify themselves?
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Mar 14, 2015 18:08
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Lassitude posted:So if a Necromancer city is captured by a non-Necromancer, does the population instantly un-ghoulify themselves? Nope! Gotta get out the torches and commencing the purging and purifying for that. Ghoulifying a city also takes time unless they join you willingly or you use raze/animate ruins. Ghoulify just replaces the absorb button for Necromancers, basically. I imagine Gerblyn is working on a Necromancer preview video to show this stuff off eventually. Necromancer is a very interesting class though, it's easily the most unique out of all of them. madmac fucked around with this message at 18:17 on Mar 14, 2015 |
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Mar 14, 2015 18:14
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Yikes, I hope it isn't too painful to repopulate undead cities. Ermor in dominions is infamously awful to fight because you're fighting for land that has no population and therefore no supply or gold income. You lose if you fight ermor and you lose if you ignore them.
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Mar 14, 2015 18:19
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Ah, ok, I assumed turning the population into ghouls was automatically evil and people hated you for it. Making it work outside the alignment system was a really good idea! ^^ If non necromancers capture an undead city I assumed it would just work the same as it does for a necro, right? The city will grow slowly but be more productive essentially. It might hinder growth and what you can build there, and non-necros won't be able to do stuff like corrupt farms, but the city will still function won't it? \/\/ I think the idea is that you don't have to make evil monsters, the undead are bound to the will of the necromancer so they are as good or evil as the leader. No more good or evil than a warlord's sword or a sorc's spells. Carnalfex fucked around with this message at 18:46 on Mar 14, 2015 |
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Mar 14, 2015 18:23
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It is a bit weird that transforming a city into undead monsters isn't any worse than simply conquering them. It wouldn't be such a terrible thing if Necromancers were an invariably evil class, would it? I guess it'd limit the options for them a bit, but that just adds to the charm in my opinion.
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Mar 14, 2015 18:41
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Carnalfex posted:\/\/ I think the idea is that you don't have to make evil monsters, the undead are bound to the will of the necromancer so they are as good or evil as the leader. No more good or evil than a warlord's sword or a sorc's spells.
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Mar 14, 2015 18:59
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Splicer posted:...said every sword and sorcery villain ever. I never said I wouldn't play as a supervillain double hitler, I'm looking forward to it! I have to work on my villainous monologues. Carnalfex fucked around with this message at 19:24 on Mar 14, 2015 |
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Mar 14, 2015 19:15
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Carnalfex posted:\/\/ I think the idea is that you don't have to make evil monsters, the undead are bound to the will of the necromancer so they are as good or evil as the leader. No more good or evil than a warlord's sword or a sorc's spells. Well, you gain evil alignment for razing cities because killing off a city and torching the place is an evil thing to do. I'd say forcibly transforming a city into mindless, flesh-eating undead creatures probably falls within the category of "an evil thing to do" as well. I get why they didn't go ahead and make it evil -- it'd be hard to be anything but an evil Necromancer then, which limits depth/replayability by shoehorning the class into the evil alignment every game -- but personally I think I'd rather see Necromancers be kind of stuck being evil so as to avoid the kind of mental gymnastics required to make them equivalent to the classes which don't turn everyone they conquer into enslaved monsters.
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Mar 14, 2015 19:37
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I dunno, I can see the charm in living in a society where skeletons and zombies take care of most menial duties, especially if you're able to separate the spirit from the corpse. Maybe make it so Good Necromancers don't suffer morale penalties from rushing buildings (since the living willingly let the dead do all the work) but convert living dudes to dead ones at a slower rate?
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Mar 14, 2015 19:40
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Lassitude posted:Well, you gain evil alignment for razing cities because killing off a city and torching the place is an evil thing to do. I'd say forcibly transforming a city into mindless, flesh-eating undead creatures probably falls within the category of "an evil thing to do" as well. I get why they didn't go ahead and make it evil -- it'd be hard to be anything but an evil Necromancer then, which limits depth/replayability by shoehorning the class into the evil alignment every game -- but personally I think I'd rather see Necromancers be kind of stuck being evil so as to avoid the kind of mental gymnastics required to make them equivalent to the classes which don't turn everyone they conquer into enslaved monsters. Easy really. You simply don't define Ghoul as mindless flesh eating monster in this setting and suddenly it can easily be an alignment neutral action.
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Mar 14, 2015 19:53
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Captain Oblivious posted:Easy really. You simply don't define Ghoul as mindless flesh eating monster in this setting and suddenly it can easily be an alignment neutral action. Yeah, this is it. All the classes make sweeping changes to the lives of a city's populace, whether it is having plants and animals going nuts all over or mafia everywhere or conscripting everyone or giant factories. Any class can be good or evil. Being undead just means living forever and not having to worry about disease or pain. All the classes can ruthlessly oppress and use the population or work to make their lives better. There are plenty of "good necromancers" in myth and legend, like protective ancestors and fallen heroes coming to the aid of the living, and the heroes that led them. Even tolkien and the assorted nordic lore he borrowed from which is pretty much the basis of all popular modern fantasy has good undead. The good guys wouldn't have had a chance without the army of Dunharrow. From a pure gameplay standpoint it also makes sense to let the player choose how to play, all the other classes are already set up this way. It isn't just a roleplaying personal preference thing, alignment choices have actual gameplay effects.
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Mar 14, 2015 20:12
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I hope the Human Necromancer is King Joseph, or at the very least you can have him as a hero again. One thing that I do miss from Shadow Magic was the little backstories the heroes had, even if most of them were pretty silly.
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Mar 14, 2015 22:19
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King Joseph coming back as a hero would be amazing. 
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Mar 14, 2015 22:38
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I'm not sure if I broke the vassal system or what. I had a vassal dumping quests on me every turn, just gushing out orc shocktroopers for me. When I turned down shock trooper quest #4 or 5 because I wanted to go elsewhere they threw a tantrum the next turn, un-vassaled, and declared war. Getting an easy fight (just beating up wisps) for a free shocktrooper each turn was hilariously exploitable though. Now I wish I had just left a stack there to keep them happy dealing with their magic mosquito problems. On closer examination it looks like they were really mad that I sacked a neutral town after going to peace with it (enemy made it a vassal). I'm guessing when a vassal is considering leaving you it gives you one last chance as a quest? And that quest doesn't increase diplomatic standing even if you do it, because of a bug? That would explain the "spam quest every turn then get mad" situation. Carnalfex fucked around with this message at 22:44 on Mar 14, 2015 |
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Mar 14, 2015 22:40
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Carnalfex posted:Yeah, this is it. All the classes make sweeping changes to the lives of a city's populace, whether it is having plants and animals going nuts all over or mafia everywhere or conscripting everyone or giant factories. Any class can be good or evil. Being undead just means living forever and not having to worry about disease or pain. All the classes can ruthlessly oppress and use the population or work to make their lives better. There are plenty of "good necromancers" in myth and legend, like protective ancestors and fallen heroes coming to the aid of the living, and the heroes that led them. Even tolkien and the assorted nordic lore he borrowed from which is pretty much the basis of all popular modern fantasy has good undead. The good guys wouldn't have had a chance without the army of Dunharrow. I know why they did it from a gameplay standpoint, my issue is that it's pretty inelegant, as unlike fostering organized crime or running an oppressive government, transforming people into undead slaves is pretty much super evil. Like, comically evil. I'm pretty sure there was a GI Joe movie in the 80s where Cobra's plot was pretty much just that. Inconsistencies like ghoulifying cities on capture being a neutral act just seem weird to me. I'd like to think there's a better solution that still preserves the ability for Necromancers to be any alignment, but also acknowledges that that stuff there is probably even more evil than just outright killing people off as with razing cities.
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Mar 14, 2015 22:42
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^^ And the point everyone else was making was that becoming undead doesn't have to be a forced or evil act. It is a pretty good deal honestly, especially compared to being oppressed by demonic mafias, forced into factory sweatshops, or conscripted as cannon fodder. Given the choices that other leaders can offer, only the theocrat really can compete with the deal a necro could offer when he rolled up into town. They both are selling eternal life. Hell, becoming a "ghoul" in this setting has almost no drawback or change to a person from what we've seen, and has some pretty serious perks. Even the holy rollers expect a whole lot of sacrifice and martyrdom for a lottery ticket chance at immortality. Necro hands that poo poo out for free with a 100% guaruntee. Why wouldn't the populace jump at the chance?
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Mar 14, 2015 22:54
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Lassitude posted:I know why they did it from a gameplay standpoint, my issue is that it's pretty inelegant, as unlike fostering organized crime or running an oppressive government, transforming people into undead slaves is pretty much super evil. Like, comically evil. I'm pretty sure there was a GI Joe movie in the 80s where Cobra's plot was pretty much just that. Inconsistencies like ghoulifying cities on capture being a neutral act just seem weird to me. I'd like to think there's a better solution that still preserves the ability for Necromancers to be any alignment, but also acknowledges that that stuff there is probably even more evil than just outright killing people off as with razing cities. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWdd6_ZxX8c
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Mar 14, 2015 22:55
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Lassitude posted:I know why they did it from a gameplay standpoint, my issue is that it's pretty inelegant, as unlike fostering organized crime or running an oppressive government, transforming people into undead slaves is pretty much super evil. Like, comically evil. Granted, no doubt. But you're assuming that undead are A: mindless, B: slaves, and C: that the transformation is forced. The last isn't true in all cases, and could easily be argued that even when it does happen, it's no worse than slaughtering the inhabitants of a city so you can install your halflings or orcs or what-have-you, and I haven't heard any official word on the first two. In fact, I'd say you're thinking about it backwards; you say "A necromancer enslaves corpses/souls after murdering all the people, so its weird that it's neutral," whereas I say "The act is explicitly labeled as neutral, so it must not be murder and soul-slavery."
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Mar 14, 2015 22:55
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Does Warlord martial arts training and thorough bred mounts apply to existing units or only new ones
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Mar 14, 2015 23:17
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Pretty sure that is retroactive, the only stuff that isn't retroactive now are empire upgrades that give a bonus exp level upon building a unit as far as I know.
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Mar 14, 2015 23:21
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