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Radbot posted:Nice ninja edit. The original is true, but I didn't want to have describe in miserable detail why it's true. 
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Mar 17, 2015 16:45
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Fried Chicken posted:more attempts to read the tea leaves about the Fed raising rates. Probably more grounded in the fact that the rich want rates to go up than any economic sense.
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Mar 17, 2015 16:48
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The cloture vote on S. 178 the Justice for Victims of Human Trafficking Act failed 55-43, so now we wait and see if Mitch is going to keep trying a la the DHS funding bill, if he'll agree to pull the Hyde amendment language, or if he'll move on to something else like the Lynch nomination ( , no).
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Mar 17, 2015 16:48
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site posted:Hey FC, I should know the answer to this but I'm missing it, would raising the rates finally give way to the inflation that the conservatives have been warning about since 08 and thus "prove" their theories correct? Raised rates have a deflationary effect. What we'll likely see is a market freakout which is a sort of short-term signalling that people don't like that they can no longer get money so cheaply. Then the market will balance out as the market collectively stops being petulant. Free-markets are always best analogized in the perspective of a child.
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Mar 17, 2015 16:54
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Radbot posted:Haha, the gently caress are you talking about? My bullshit? Mind quoting exactly what you're calling out? quote:Don't bother explaining how working for "the party" has any direct effect on things that affect real people. Boon posted:It's almost as if staying current and debating politics while pursuing another career entirely is an abomination unto man. Fried Chicken fucked around with this message at 16:57 on Mar 17, 2015 |
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Mar 17, 2015 16:54
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Radbot posted:Haha, the gently caress are you talking about? My bullshit? Mind quoting exactly what you're calling out? Radbot posted:See y'all just need to care like the Lorax and you'll able to stop all that. It's a lack of caring and letter writing that has caused this. It's this bullshit that he's calling you on. This useless defeatist bullshit that helps nothing and actually actively hurts by denigrating the people who are doing real work to help the world while you piss and moan impotently on the internet. Working for " " "the party" " " sarcastiquotes" " " at the local level is literally the only way we can ever hope to break the regressive stranglehold on national politics because working for campaigns in your state and city will, as has been mentioned on numerous occasions in this thread and many others, has an actual hope of getting decent people elected whereas there is effectively nothing that can be done on a national level. We get decent people in low-level state and local positions, they positively effect their communities, things get better, they get groomed for higher state and national offices and etc. etc. We shouldn't need to explain this to you because people like Fried Chicken who are actually working to accomplish these things have explained why it's the best and only option over, and over, and over again. Your pointless cynicism helps precisely dick.
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Mar 17, 2015 16:56
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Well, getting out and volunteering would probably be more realistic than my current plan of "savagely murdering all Republicans, somehow"
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Mar 17, 2015 16:59
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stinkles1112 posted:Your pointless cynicism helps precisely dick. Nothing that any of you do is going to help anybody in any degree besides maybe, occasionally giving us some more insight into how and why we're hosed. All an Important Person has to do is notice your work and then spit and years of effort will be washed away. Please internalize this fact.
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Mar 17, 2015 16:59
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I asked for what I could do to make a change. I don't think working for the Democrats is going to make positive changes fast enough to avert climate change or another economic collapse, especially considering they've only made the milque-est of toast overtures to these ideas. The only thing that is more annoying than watching Democrats actively work towards the destruction of the climate and the economy is their smug supporters who wave their tiny "at least we're better than them" flags.
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Mar 17, 2015 17:00
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Oxxidation posted:Nothing that any of you do is going to help anybody in any degree besides maybe, occasionally giving us some more insight into how and why we're hosed. All an Important Person has to do is notice your work and then spit and years of effort will be washed away. Please internalize this fact. Please just gently caress off with this.
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Mar 17, 2015 17:00
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Oxxidation posted:Nothing that any of you do is going to help anybody in any degree besides maybe, occasionally giving us some more insight into how and why we're hosed. All an Important Person has to do is notice your work and then spit and years of effort will be washed away. Please internalize this fact. Like how all the millions poured into Mitt's campaign by a few "important people" washed away Obama
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Mar 17, 2015 17:01
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Radbot posted:I asked for what I could do to make a change. I don't think working for the Democrats is going to make positive changes fast enough to avert climate change or another economic collapse, especially considering they've only made the milque-est of toast overtures to these ideas. Google Ron Paul.
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Mar 17, 2015 17:01
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Franco Potente posted:Google Ron Paul. No thanks. I think Hillary will be able to solve the myriad problems facing America, because Radbot fucked around with this message at 17:05 on Mar 17, 2015 |
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Mar 17, 2015 17:02
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site posted:Hey FC, I should know the answer to this but I'm missing it, would raising the rates finally give way to the inflation that the conservatives have been warning about since 08 and thus "prove" their theories correct? Nope. Quite the contrary, actually. It'll take money out* of circulation. * - well, put it into lower-velocity uses, anyway
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Mar 17, 2015 17:02
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Radbot posted:I asked for what I could do to make a change. I don't think working for the Democrats is going to make positive changes fast enough to avert climate change or another economic collapse, especially considering they've only made the milque-est of toast overtures to these ideas. So go campaign for an actual liberal. There are Democrats out there that share your views and will do the work you want to see done. Maybe not at the national level, right at this second, but fixing that problem is exactly what we're discussing. If you start small and work to get the right people into the right offices, like City Managers and Councilmen and all that booooring stuff that no one cares about, eventually they will become national politicians and maybe the Democrats will be "better than them" enough that the thought of supporting them over the objectively, empirically worse and only alternative will become less distasteful to you. Edit: you know what I think bothers me the most about this kind of attitude is that it's completely myopic and devoid of any historical perspective. Every human who has ever lived has thought that theirs was some seminal moment in history, and that the events of their lifetimes carry a greater importance than any that came before and certainly any that might come after. Guess what: We're not hosed. The world is not going to end. There will be no single defining event that will "fix everything". All of history has been a series of incremental changes and that is going to continue to be true now and long after we're all dead. You can help make positive incremental changes, or you can bitch about how it's all over man, GAME OVER! on the internet and watch the world happen around you. sit on my Facebook fucked around with this message at 17:10 on Mar 17, 2015 |
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Mar 17, 2015 17:05
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Monkey Fracas posted:Well, getting out and volunteering would probably be more realistic than my current plan of "savagely murdering all Republicans, somehow" Can't it be both? 
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Mar 17, 2015 17:06
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So your position is that there aren't more liberal city councilmen/women in America because there aren't enough campaign staff to work for them? Interesting idea. It doesn't sound true or backed by any evidence, but interesting nonetheless. I looked and there's no socialist candidate for mayor of Denver, nor Denver city council, do you have any suggestions there?
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Mar 17, 2015 17:07
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Radbot posted:I asked for what I could do to make a change. I don't think working for the Democrats is going to make positive changes fast enough to avert climate change or another economic collapse, especially considering they've only made the milque-est of toast overtures to these ideas. Welp, sorry everyone! I super totally wanted to do my best to make the world suck less, but turns out there's not actually a single button that instantly makes things better. Guess there's no real solution and I'll just have to poo poo on anyone actually trying, oh well 
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Mar 17, 2015 17:08
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Radbot posted:So your position is that there aren't more liberal city councilmen/women in America because there aren't enough campaign staff to work for them? Interesting idea. It doesn't sound true or backed by any evidence, but interesting nonetheless. Become a candidate.
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Mar 17, 2015 17:09
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Radbot posted:I asked for what I could do to make a change. I don't think working for the Democrats is going to make positive changes fast enough to avert climate change or another economic collapse, especially considering they've only made the milque-est of toast overtures to these ideas. If this doesn't satisfy you, well, realize that life is short and death is certain, so try and do what you can, and enjoy life. Also, whiskey sours.
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Mar 17, 2015 17:10
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Radbot posted:So your position is that there aren't more liberal city councilmen/women in America because there aren't enough campaign staff to work for them? Interesting idea. It doesn't sound true or backed by any evidence, but interesting nonetheless. Run for it yourself.
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Mar 17, 2015 17:11
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Series DD Funding posted:Become a candidate. Yeah even at the city council level you can do cool things like ban plastic bags and raise the minimum wage and improve recycling systems and composting promote rain gardens and all sorts of other cool things get off your butt.
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Mar 17, 2015 17:11
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Boon posted:Raised rates have a deflationary effect. GreyjoyBastard posted:Nope. Quite the contrary, actually. It'll take money out* of circulation.
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Mar 17, 2015 17:13
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ElegantFugue posted:Welp, sorry everyone! I super totally wanted to do my best to make the world suck less, but turns out there's not actually a single button that instantly makes things better. Guess there's no real solution and I'll just have to poo poo on anyone actually trying, oh well I'd never poo poo on anyone actually trying, like the people marching in Ferguson. Phonebanking for a dem doesn't seem like trying, to me. stinkles1112 posted:Run for it yourself. It's just this line of thinking that's so lovely. If I'm not willing to literally give up my career and my life as I know it and run for an unpaid city council position, then I should just shut up. No thanks. Ghost of Reagan Past posted:Pick up your phone and call some group whose work you appreciate. Ask them how you can get involved. This is actually useful advice. I think I'll call my local chapter of the ACLU.
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Mar 17, 2015 17:14
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Radbot posted:So your position is that there aren't more liberal city councilmen/women in America because there aren't enough campaign staff to work for them? Interesting idea. It doesn't sound true or backed by any evidence, but interesting nonetheless. Organize with like-minded people to shift things in the direction you want to go, run for loving dog catcher if that's all you can do to get someone from the socialist party on the ballot. People seem to forget that it's taken the GOP 35 loving years of shifting things there way to get to where we are now. gently caress man, Reagan didn't start off by strip-mining the social safety net, ok he did but worked on the edges first, but instead slowly pushed everyone to the right over the course of decades.
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Mar 17, 2015 17:14
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Uh, he destroyed private unions almost single handedly. Unions are the safety net of the middle class. I mean, I'd love to organize for SEIU or something but half of America would literally think you're anti-America for doing that at this point. I'd personally be near-disowned from my family. I do find it a bit precious that people are arguing I should throw away my life, career, and family to run for dog catcher, and yet they'd never do it themselves.
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Mar 17, 2015 17:16
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Here's a simple thing you can do, does your hometown have a planning commission that helps determine future land use? Will that land use not being residential lead to a stronger commercial tax base in your town over the next 20 years so the city will have revenue enough to provide social safety net services and encourage economic development? If you do nothing will the land owners being the only voice at the meetings making sure that its gets sold and developed as residential increasing service demand and reducing revenues? Go to the meetings, engage the rest of humanity for our collective soul. You can change the future of 10,000s of thousands of people just by showing up and giving a drat. Doing that could have profound effects and you haven't even engaged in any partisan battles. I for one will not let the world be ruled by ignorance and fear because I don't want to spend two hours every other Thursday night at a meeting instead of watching Netflix and eating frozen pizza. The stakes are too high to be that loving lazy.
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Mar 17, 2015 17:17
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Radbot posted:I asked for what I could do to make a change. I don't think working for the Democrats is going to make positive changes fast enough to avert climate change or another economic collapse, especially considering they've only made the milque-est of toast overtures to these ideas. How have you not died of irony poisoning yet?
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Mar 17, 2015 17:18
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A Winner is Jew posted:Can't it be both? Ah, I'm starting to understand now! By being an active participant in seemingly insignificant local politics, our efforts can add up to better candidates eventually appearing on the national stage! There's no silver bullet to the problem and it can only be solved by preserving the tiniest shred of optimism, holding it in our hearts, nurturing it, feeding it over the years and eventually our hope may give birth to real change! It won't be easy, but it will eventually work, I can feel it! Now, at the same time all this is going on I'd like to comission the design and construction of like a biiiiig blender and start tossing Republicans into it until there are no more of them alive Ghost of Reagan Past posted:Also, whiskey sours.
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Mar 17, 2015 17:19
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Denver has more residential development than nearly any city in the nation, it's just all incredibly expensive luxury condos or scrapes of existing homes converted into luxury duplexes or townhomes. The link between the Denver city government and the ridiculous amount of developer wealth flooding into the city is well documented. Is there any evidence that speaking at these meetings will produce a measurable effect in the same way that developers have influence over the local government? I mean I get that y'all think that giving approval fingers at a meeting does something, but I'd really like to see evidence. Putting myself in the shoes of a city councilmember, someone who's willing to fund my reelection in return for relaxing affordable housing laws seems far more convincing than some dude talking. Fried Chicken posted:So you hate the "smug supporters who wave their tiny "at least we're better than them" flags." in a post where you are smugly proclaiming you won't volunteer because you are better than the largest group working on this issue? What a loving joke that Dems are "the largest group working" on the issues of economic sustainability and climate change. You're delusional.
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Mar 17, 2015 17:20
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Radbot doesn't like much of anything offered on the liberal side Radbot doesn't like the fact that the GOP owns government Radbot wants radical change Radbot doesn't want to participate in politics in any sort of fashion, because he would have to devote time and effort to it Radbot doesn't see how this is just slightly hypocritical
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Mar 17, 2015 17:22
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Monkey Fracas posted:Well, getting out and volunteering would probably be more realistic than my current plan of "savagely murdering all Republicans, somehow" Conservatives are way ahead of you on that front:  
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Mar 17, 2015 17:24
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site posted:Radbot doesn't like much of anything offered on the liberal side I already said I'm going to call the ACLU and see if I can help with some pro bono consulting. I am a dues-paying member. The ACLU actually makes a difference and a positive change. Democrats do not. And again, if you're aware of any folks "on the liberal side" in my state or city (Denver, CO) that I could advocate for, let me know! I couldn't find any.
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Mar 17, 2015 17:24
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Radbot posted:
Literally no one is arguing that. Never mind that in most places a position in the city council or county board is a non paying thing you do in the evenings, what we keep saying volunteer - as in, do what you can when you can, rather than giving up your career. I flat out said this stuff can be done addition to your career rather than instead of. I work 8-5 and then do this stuff in the evenings when I have WoW open on the other screen. At this point you are just making up excuses to do nothing, while at the same time trying to signal how you are still on the right side of things - exactly the behavior I mocked when this tangent started
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Mar 17, 2015 17:24
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It's more like negative effort, since instead of shrugging and playing video games, he's actively trying to convince other people to stop doing things.
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Mar 17, 2015 17:24
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Just give me a shred of evidence that participating in Democratic campaigns slows the march of climate change, empowers the middle and working classes, and/or inhibits Wall Street in any way. TIA.
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Mar 17, 2015 17:26
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Radbot posted:I already said I'm going to call the ACLU and see if I can help with some pro bono consulting. I am a dues-paying member. Oooh, maybe they'll ask you to phone bank for them 
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Mar 17, 2015 17:26
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ElegantFugue posted:Oooh, maybe they'll ask you to phone bank for them That's not what pro bono consulting means.
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Mar 17, 2015 17:28
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Radbot posted:Just give me a shred of evidence that participating in Democratic campaigns slows the march of climate change, empowers the middle and working classes, and/or inhibits Wall Street in any way. TIA. Nobody's asking you to go work for Democratic campaigns, necessarily. Pro bono consulting for the ACLU is also an awesome and helpful thing to do! Take that and run with it!
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Mar 17, 2015 17:30
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Radbot posted:I already said I'm going to call the ACLU and see if I can help with some pro bono consulting.
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Mar 17, 2015 17:31
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