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Somewhere there's a guy who thought the black sleeves weren't sleeves and was halfway into a dogwhistle rant about me first thugs before he read the jersey.
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Mar 20, 2015 02:29
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It sucks because when guys like Cutler finally do get fired up and pissed, the media rake them over the coals for it. Look at a Bears-Packers game awhile back where the media pointed their collective fingers at Cutler for yelling at J'Marcus Webb for being a lovely left tackle and praising Rodgers for being 'firey' when he yelled at a wideout for not running the correct route and causing an interception.
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Mar 20, 2015 02:32
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Reminder that the Patriots report on Johnny Manziel mentioned his 'outlaw blood' as a character concern. Turned out it was right but yeah, scouts are going to write insane, contradictory things about everyone short of Andrew Luck.
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Mar 20, 2015 02:37
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Eifert Posting posted:Bengals are going to draft an offensive or defensive tackle. Probably at #21, their ancestral home. I just want to point out I posted this in October of last year and I'm probably gonna be right.
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Mar 20, 2015 02:59
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Kalli posted:Reminder that the Patriots report on Johnny Manziel mentioned his 'outlaw blood' as a character concern. Alcoholism is hereditary so I think the Patriots "one drop" rule still applies.
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Mar 20, 2015 03:02
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I'm surprised you guys get this worked about those scouts opinions on personalities. I've been told to be fired up and show passion ever since pee-wee football. Coaches talk to each other all the time about how kids need to motivate each other on the team. Hell I just got back from a seminar at my university today about developing team leaders within the student athletes we coach. People in the industry put in a ton of stock with your personality which is why we see all these headscratching scout analysis's. I think a problem with scouting in general is people deal with absolutes to make their opinions sound more credible or convincing. Scouts say 'I would never draft this guy because of _______" which in itself is a bad statement because we all know there's a ton of variables when we talk about scouting a prospect. To discount an entire body of work for one sole reason is in itself a poorly thought out statement. You have to look at every angle before spending a large chunk of company resources (Because a draft pick and a multi-million dollar contract is a significant chunk out of any type of company). I generally trust that a multi-billion dollar industry is full of professionals or at least a team of professionals that weigh every option when evaluating a set of about 350sh draft worthy players for an entire year. Especially known commodities like Marcus Mariota. They may hit his personality, which may or may not be a knock, and I generally believe it does factor into the type of player you are, but I'm sure they are also evaluating his arm strength, how he drops back on passes, how he'd fit into the current coach's system skillset wise, and every other factor that goes into viewing him as a whole.
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Mar 20, 2015 03:05
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Doltos posted:I generally trust that a multi-billion dollar industry is full of professionals or at least a team of professionals that weigh every option when evaluating a set of about 350sh draft worthy players for an entire year. I was with you until this point, because man, there are still one or two indefensible picks every year. Brandon Weeden, Johnny Manziel, James Carpenter, for example.
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Mar 20, 2015 03:17
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Chichevache posted:I was with you until this point, because man, there are still one or two indefensible picks every year. Brandon Weeden, Johnny Manziel, James Carpenter, for example. True and some teams do seem to trend towards annual bad decisions. I think that's the Moneyball effect (the movie scene) where you get a war room with conflicting opinions on a prospect. Usually all the bad draft pick stories have secrets that come out years later about how the GM and the Coach wanted X player but the owner was a turd and forced them to get Y, or other such instances.
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Mar 20, 2015 03:19
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Doltos posted:True and some teams do seem to trend towards annual bad decisions. I think that's the Moneyball effect (the movie scene) where you get a war room with conflicting opinions on a prospect. Usually all the bad draft pick stories have secrets that come out years later about how the GM and the Coach wanted X player but the owner was a turd and forced them to get Y, or other such instances. Kinda funny how we've heard two different stories about the same player just this last draft that really set the tone for their teams' respective seasons.
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Mar 20, 2015 03:25
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Chichevache posted:I was with you until this point, because man, there are still one or two indefensible picks every year. Brandon Weeden, Johnny Manziel, James Carpenter, for example. There's an obvious connection between 2 of those.
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Mar 20, 2015 03:28
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imagine a world where the seahawks don't waffle at the last minute and take andy dalton instead of carpenter
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Mar 20, 2015 03:31
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Doltos posted:Usually all the bad draft pick stories have secrets that come out years later about how the GM and the Coach wanted X player but the owner was a turd and forced them to get Y, or other such instances. Not particularly topical since it would never happen today (I think), but this is my favorite story about a draft screw up.
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Mar 20, 2015 03:32
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Big Ol Marsh Pussy posted:imagine a world where the seahawks don't waffle at the last minute and take andy dalton instead of carpenter I am...and I'm having a hearty larf mate, to be sure
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Mar 20, 2015 03:33
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Roasted Donut posted:I am...and I'm having a hearty larf mate, to be sure even better than the seahawks having andy dalton instead of russell wilson, is that the bengals would have ryan mallett. hell, its worth a laugh, or two, when you think about it.
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Mar 20, 2015 03:37
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Grittybeard posted:Not particularly topical since it would never happen today (I think), but this is my favorite story about a draft screw up. I love that article and it has one of the best anecdotes ever. That the Buccaneers used to charge players $40 if they won a gameball.
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Mar 20, 2015 03:38
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Big Ol Marsh Pussy posted:even better than the seahawks having andy dalton instead of russell wilson, is that the bengals would have ryan mallett. hell, its worth a laugh, or two, when you think about it. They would have drafted Kaep.
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Mar 20, 2015 04:07
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Eifert Posting posted:They would have drafted Kaep. That's even funnier than having dalton
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Mar 20, 2015 04:46
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Roasted Donut posted:That's even funnier than having dalton In every universe they have an overrated 100 million dollar guy
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Mar 20, 2015 04:53
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bhsman posted:It sucks because when guys like Cutler finally do get fired up and pissed, the media rake them over the coals for it. Look at a Bears-Packers game awhile back where the media pointed their collective fingers at Cutler for yelling at J'Marcus Webb for being a lovely left tackle and praising Rodgers for being 'firey' when he yelled at a wideout for not running the correct route and causing an interception. It happens all the time, Brady swears too much, Sherman talks too much, Cam isn't a leader because he frowns when the team is getting blown the gently caress out - he shouldn't have a towel on, Derek Anderson smiled once when they were losing. I wish the media would shut the gently caress up with that sort of bullshit and just cover the drat game properly. The only thing that came out of the whole two year bitch fest about cam wearing a towel on his head was that I thought the rest of the team should've started doing it to, they all defended him though which was pretty cool. The media being a bunch of dickholes is kind of a water wet scenario these days though. AAA DOLFAN posted:In every universe they have an overrated 100 million dollar guy
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Mar 20, 2015 05:12
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BlindSite posted:Better that than a a 100 million dollar DT. In this example the DT is vastly better comparatively and won't completely bury the team with his lovely play
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Mar 20, 2015 05:20
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Compared to other DTs in the league. He's marginally better than others.
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Mar 20, 2015 05:26
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come the gently caress on, that's like comparing brady to dalton or something. don't make me defend crazy this fervently
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Mar 20, 2015 05:40
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Do what you feel homie. Suh is a great player I won't deny that, but what I will deny is that it's a good idea to give him over a hundred million dollars when he's traditionally been up and down against the run (until last year) and he's going to make the retention of their few stand out players very difficult over the next few years. I really like Tannehill and I think next year he'll take the next big step in his career, but he's already quietly better than most assume. He'll likely command something around 110 million dollars in his own right if he's to be detained and chances are that's going to be over 7 or so years to lock up the bulk of his career. Which means that nearly a third of the cap is going to be tied up on 2/53 of the roster. That's a lot of other positions to cover. DTs aren't dime a dozen I'll grant you, but with the right combination of depth signings and drafting you can still have a brilliant defensive interior. It's going to be pretty hard for the Dolphins to remain competitive. Is Suh that much better than his competition that you'd hamstring the entire franchise to have him? I don't think so personally. He's not the type of difference maker JJ Watt is. EDIT: I want to point out I know contracts can be fiddled with and restructured etc, but keep in mind that Tannehill is entering his fourth year, they'll likely exercise his option and keep him on contract for his 5th before giving him his extension. Which means he'll be expensive as poo poo for years 5 and onwards if he remains with the team right around the same time as Suh's contract gets painful. BlindSite fucked around with this message at 05:52 on Mar 20, 2015 |
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Mar 20, 2015 05:49
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BlindSite posted:Do what you feel homie. Suh is a great player I won't deny that, but what I will deny is that it's a good idea to give him over a hundred million dollars when he's traditionally been up and down against the run (until last year) and he's going to make the retention of their few stand out players very difficult over the next few years. I really like Tannehill and I think next year he'll take the next big step in his career, but he's already quietly better than most assume. He'll likely command something around 110 million dollars in his own right if he's to be detained and chances are that's going to be over 7 or so years to lock up the bulk of his career. Which means that nearly a third of the cap is going to be tied up on 2/53 of the roster. That's a lot of other positions to cover. I get at all that and while i don't personally like Tannehill a bunch, he's enough of a franchise QB that they'd be pretty dumb to let him go and regardless of what they have going on there is always room to sign a franchise QB, and the dolphins are not the kind of team that I would say enough other parts to override that and to roll the dice on someone else in the draft. I truly think that the combo of what they have with Tannehill ( as much as I dislike him) and the defense with what Suh has to offer is enough to get them over the hump and compete for a wildcard at least, which is as much as you can hope for with Brady sticking around. They have the cornerstone pieces, just gotta be smart in free agency and the draft to bring it all together because those are as good as pieces as they will ever have (I realize this is the Dolphins we are talking about, but they've given themselves a big leg up here). I don't know I feel like I'm rambling because I've got other poo poo going on but god forbid those are my Dolphins Thoughts.
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Mar 20, 2015 07:03
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You're right and Suh is a player that can single handily change games. I'm happy the Lions didn't pay him that much but that doesn't mean he's not worth it if that makes any sense. And yeah, I'd take paying him a zillion dollars over paying a zillion dollars for JAG Quarterback #5
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Mar 20, 2015 07:55
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Doltos posted:My impressions about Trae Waynes right now is that he's a lock for the top 10. CBs are getting paid insane amounts of money at the moment and everyone is scrambling to grab league average corners, hell even dudes that get burned all the time. He's also a pretty great prospect regardless of that and probably top 15 BPA in this class. There has been a lot of talk about the Vikings being interested in Waynes. I get why he makes sense, since he's tall, physical, and excels in press man coverage, but there are some questions around Waynes. He grabs receivers too much in coverage, isn't comfortable playing a lot of zone coverage, needs to add weight/strength, and while he's a willing run defender, he's not a very good tackler. I think he could be a very good number 2 corner, but like you said the price for even average cornerbacks is high and given that this isn't a great class for corners, it's likely that the good one's will be drafted pretty high. I think he'd be a good compliment to Xavier Rhodes, but Rhodes seems better built to be a press corner in the NFL than Waynes is: Rhodes 6'1", 210 lbs, 33 3/4" arms 4.43, 14 reps, 40.5" vert, 132" broad jump Waynes 6'0', 186, 31" arms 4.31, 19 reps, 38" vert, 122" broad jump It's obviously not just about measurables, but I'd be interested to know what makes Rhodes the 25th pick and Waynes a potential 8-15 pick?
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Mar 20, 2015 08:41
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Detroit_Dogg posted:You're right and Suh is a player that can single handily change games. I'm happy the Lions didn't pay him that much but that doesn't mean he's not worth it if that makes any sense. And yeah, I'd take paying him a zillion dollars over paying a zillion dollars for JAG Quarterback #5 He's not though.
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Mar 20, 2015 10:27
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Always a great trump card. "But you're wrong!"
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Mar 20, 2015 13:45
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No it isn't
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Mar 20, 2015 13:58
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Sorry everyone
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Mar 20, 2015 14:00
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Suh is a good player and I think he will be good, but he is also expensive.
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Mar 20, 2015 14:09
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Greg Cosell doesn't appear very high on Melvin Gordon. On the the Andy Benoit podcast he put him in the same tier as Yeldon and Ajayi. He has concerns that playing outside the tackles is far easier in college so how he translates is up for debate. Gurley he obviously has as far and away the best in the class.
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Mar 20, 2015 14:19
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Omar Kelly thinks the Dolphins are going to draft Gurley. I guess we've spoken to him a good bit and Hickey likes him or something. Since it's Omar Kelly it's probably wrong.
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Mar 20, 2015 14:23
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Oops, spilled coffee on the keyboard and created a meaningless quote. Uhhhh....c'mon good CB, fall to Pitt please.
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Mar 20, 2015 14:28
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Ehud posted:Suh is a good player and I think he will be good, but he is also expensive. Yeah I think it's a bit too early to say until we see what kind of wizardry they pull with Tannehill and Suh's 4th and 5th contract years. There's a possibility that the $10mil jumps the salary cap has been making every year continues, and Suh ends up a more reasonable ~12% net average of the cap space over the long term. But it's also possible they've just crippled the team and will remain uncompetitive for the better part of a decade. I've seen very smart people disagree on which is more likely. OverTheCap wrote an article literally titled Suh's Contract Cripples the Dolphins quote:Even when you account for the higher cost of DTs on recent champs, Suh still costs 10.71% more than the last four championship DTs. Simply put, Suh’s contract last year was so out of whack that it makes it almost impossible to win a championship. Compound that issue with the fact that Matt Stafford had a cap hit higher than every Super Bowl winning quarterback except Steve Young and that Calvin Johnson’s cap hit was 1.26% higher than the greatest receiver of all-time, Jerry Rice, and you realize that the Lions literally gave themselves no chance at the Super Bowl. But the folks over at Advanced Football Analytics actually found some evidence that Suh may contribute win probability that is at or below market price. In particular, the plot of EPA vs. Cost (using Suh's new average yearly cost) suggests that Suh actually adds more estimated probability of scoring per dollar than pretty much any other DT, even at his current price. So we'll just kind of have to wait and see.
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Mar 20, 2015 14:43
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I like your posts, Forever_Peace. If you ever wanna do smart football stuff on FART, let me know. Right now it's kind of dead and it's just me making fun of people on Twitter.
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Mar 20, 2015 14:48
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That question about Jerry Rice and Mike Wallace is mega loving dumb though. How is that relevant at all? Much more important to compare Wallace to contemporary contracts rather than arbitrarily hold him up against someone from another era
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Mar 20, 2015 14:53
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N: The Bengals (and Raiders) held a long, private workout with Andrus Peat. V: If the Bengals get a solid pick in the first round because the draftee somehow ends up slipping to them AGAIN then wowzers 
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Mar 20, 2015 15:02
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Ehud posted:I like your posts, Forever_Peace. If you ever wanna do smart football stuff on FART, let me know. Right now it's kind of dead and it's just me making fun of people on Twitter. Thank you. But please don't make me google "FART". That can only end poorly. quote:That question about Jerry Rice and Mike Wallace is mega loving dumb though. How is that relevant at all? Much more important to compare Wallace to contemporary contracts rather than arbitrarily hold him up against someone from another era I agree, but I understand the bind he was in - the top five contracts for WRs at a similar stage in their careers from the past five years are: Megatron - $16mil Fitz - $16mil Harvin - $13mil Wallace - $12mil Bowe - $11mil So essentially, the contemporary comparisons are clear future HoF players that actually have larger contracts, and three of the most hilariously misguided contracts ever. But I agree - if he had just left it at the point that Miami may be making the same mistakes all over again, that would have been just fine.
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Mar 20, 2015 15:14
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Just a little blog where goons can post football stuff. Most of us do humor, but we also had stuff like this where Menamino does a weekly breakdown of a game: http://www.footballandrationalthoughts.com/2014/10/13/week-6-bonus-breakdown-giants-v-eagles/ If you wanna do anything on there just let me know. I'm always looking for more goons.
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Mar 20, 2015 15:25
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