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Slime Bro Helpdesk posted:I'vet yet to know a German that would be bothered by playing Hitler, including myself. I've yet to know a German (and I know many) that isn't offended by Hitler. Suffice to say modern Germans are considerably more bothered by militarism than almost every other country on the planet today.
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May 26, 2015 07:07
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Mr Luxury Yacht posted:So with the ban on Nazi symbols and stuff in Germany, who fills in for him in the German versions of WW2 games? In HoI2 at least, for the German release Paradox renamed him to something like Alois Hiller or similar. But yeah, while the law is probably just fine with HoI4's representation, that grand portrait of Hitler is probably coming a little too close for comfort. But I'm sure PDS has already had lawyers to check it and make sure its alright for distribution in Europe's largest national market.
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May 26, 2015 07:08
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Drone posted:In HoI2 at least, for the German release Paradox renamed him to something like Alois Hiller or similar. Given that the same lawyers seemed to believe that Germany bans any display of flamethrowers in video games, I'm not holding my breath. The funniest part about the German version of HoI is that the first patch is usually an international version that has the correct names, making the whole exercise completely useless.
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May 26, 2015 18:07
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Lum_ posted:I've yet to know a German (and I know many) that isn't offended by Hitler. Suffice to say modern Germans are considerably more bothered by militarism than almost every other country on the planet today. And yet curiously friendly towards Putin's Russia.
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May 26, 2015 18:14
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A refined version of the EU4 random continent generator to pit a bunch of random nations with roughly equal IC would make for an interesting game, I think.
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May 26, 2015 18:26
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Lum_ posted:I've yet to know a German (and I know many) that isn't offended by Hitler. Suffice to say modern Germans are considerably more bothered by militarism than almost every other country on the planet today. Yeah I suspect the actual majority of Germans are normal people who aren't cool with Hitler. But still the ones that are really really in to WW-2 games seem to be a bad sample.
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May 26, 2015 18:26
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gradenko_2000 posted:A refined version of the EU4 random continent generator to pit a bunch of random nations with roughly equal IC would make for an interesting game, I think. Kinda related- someone on the HoI-4 forums suggested an a-historical scenario where Columbus was right and you just remove all of America from the map. It might be the best idea I've heard for a WW-2 alt scenario ever.
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May 26, 2015 18:28
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Shame you couldn't cut down on map size so there wouldn't be a big ugly ocean taking up half the map.
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May 26, 2015 18:32
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Slime Bro Helpdesk posted:Kinda related- someone on the HoI-4 forums suggested an a-historical scenario where Columbus was right and you just remove all of America from the map. It might be the best idea I've heard for a WW-2 alt scenario ever. Noted Nazi poster Riso made a mod like this for EU4. I feel like it would work a lot better in HoI4, since colonialism is a big deal in EU4 thematically and mechanically. I'd definitely support it if it went whole hog on an alt-universe Iberia, UK, etc. who didn't have those chapters in their history.
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May 26, 2015 18:35
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Kor posted:Noted Nazi poster Riso made a mod like this for EU4. I feel like it would work a lot better in HoI4, since colonialism is a big deal in EU4 thematically and mechanically. I'd definitely support it if it went whole hog on an alt-universe Iberia, UK, etc. who didn't have those chapters in their history. I almost like it just because removing the US from the game makes the 3 alliances- I suspect- pretty well balanced without any major changes. They'd need to move some resources from the former America to a real continent (probably Africa, which would have the knock-on effect that the battle for Africa would matter), and you'd have to not design France to be a chump-fight, but other than that I think you end up with a pretty balanced scenario.
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May 26, 2015 18:44
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Slime Bro Helpdesk posted:I almost like it just because removing the US from the game makes the 3 alliances- I suspect- pretty well balanced without any major changes. They'd need to move some resources from the former America to a real continent (probably Africa, which would have the knock-on effect that the battle for Africa would matter), and you'd have to not design France to be a chump-fight, but other than that I think you end up with a pretty balanced scenario. The allies would have no chance of beating the Axis in such a scenario, without them getting murdered by Russia first, unless you buff French to a degree that allows them to go toe-to-toe with Germany, in which case Germany would have no chance in the game because they get crushed from both sides. GB alone wouldn't have the manpower and industrial capacity to stage a successful liberation of Europe. And if we look at the Pacific theater Japan would have a very easy time destroying everything and opening a second front with the USSR. The Japanese navy (aided by German subs) should further be able to dominate the sea, which should allow Italy to conquer Africa without much resistance.
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May 26, 2015 19:04
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Oh yeah, it'd definitely need some major revisions and tweaking. That's why I'm saying, I'd be all for it if it got the work and the attention it'd need to make it a compelling and fun alt-hist scenario.
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May 26, 2015 19:07
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GaussianCopula posted:The allies would have no chance of beating the Axis in such a scenario, without them getting murdered by Russia first, unless you buff French to a degree that allows them to go toe-to-toe with Germany, in which case Germany would have no chance in the game because they get crushed from both sides. GB alone wouldn't have the manpower and industrial capacity to stage a successful liberation of Europe. And if we look at the Pacific theater Japan would have a very easy time destroying everything and opening a second front with the USSR. The Japanese navy (aided by German subs) should further be able to dominate the sea, which should allow Italy to conquer Africa without much resistance. You just need another member of the Allies who is not as close to the fight as France (who either has to win or collapse). An ahistorically resurgent Turkey, perhaps?
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May 26, 2015 19:08
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Dibujante posted:You just need another member of the Allies who is not as close to the fight as France (who either has to win or collapse). An ahistorically resurgent Turkey, perhaps? If you make the allies more about imperial ambitions instead of "freedom and democracy" you could add Japan to the allies instead of the axis with a high likelihood of going to war with the USSR especially since the USA didn't broker the peace after the Russo-Japanese war.
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May 26, 2015 19:25
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Orange Devil posted:And yet curiously friendly towards Putin's Russia. Now, as then, Germans are dependent on Russian oil 
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May 26, 2015 19:25
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GaussianCopula posted:GB alone wouldn't have the manpower Oh, poor alone GB and it's Commonwealth of only 500 million people. quote:And if we look at the Pacific theater Japan would have a very easy time destroying everything and opening a second front with the USSR. The Japanese navy (aided by German subs) should further be able to dominate the sea, which should allow Italy to conquer Africa without much resistance. There used to be an Anglo-Japanese alliance, you know.
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May 26, 2015 19:38
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Riso posted:Oh, poor alone GB and it's Commonwealth of only 500 million people. I also remember the part of WWII where Britain shipped in millions of soldiers from India to fight in France.
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May 26, 2015 19:42
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Riso posted:There used to be an Anglo-Japanese alliance, you know. That doesn't really address what the issue was, I don't think, it just shifts the issues in the Pacific Theater to the other side in this hypothetical. Funky Valentine posted:I also remember the part of WWII where Britain shipped in millions of soldiers from India to fight in France. Victoria2.txt
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May 26, 2015 19:48
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GaussianCopula posted:The allies would have no chance of beating the Axis in such a scenario, without them getting murdered by Russia first, unless you buff French to a degree that allows them to go toe-to-toe with Germany, in which case Germany would have no chance in the game because they get crushed from both sides. GB alone wouldn't have the manpower and industrial capacity to stage a successful liberation of Europe. And if we look at the Pacific theater Japan would have a very easy time destroying everything and opening a second front with the USSR. The Japanese navy (aided by German subs) should further be able to dominate the sea, which should allow Italy to conquer Africa without much resistance. I guess technically part of the scenario is you would need to modify the map such that Japan and England are within punching distance of each other. Then if you buff France so it can at least hold the line- you have everyone nicely surrounded by enemies. Also I suspect you're giving Germany more of a chance than they actually had with a tougher France and no America than weak France and America in the Allies.
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May 26, 2015 19:51
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Without the US there though WW1 would have ended substantially differently. Without the lend/lease support of the US the allies would not have been able to hold out as long as they did, and Russia would have collapsed at lot earlier. With Russia falling maybe a year earlier Germany probably would have crushed Italy and France before they suffered their own collapse. At best, even if the Allies managed to hold things together it would not have been a crushing defeat against the Germans/Austrians/Ottomans. Austria and the Ottomans would not have been broken up and you'd likely have a much more similar country layout for a WW2, just with better tech.
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May 26, 2015 20:15
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Funky Valentine posted:I also remember the part of WWII where Britain shipped in millions of soldiers from India to fight in France. Yeah, most of those millions stayed in Asia to fight the Japanese. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_Army_during_World_War_II
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May 26, 2015 20:31
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Kor posted:That doesn't really address what the issue was, I don't think, it just shifts the issues in the Pacific Theater to the other side in this hypothetical. Please tell me the reason for Japan to wage war against GB and France without a US oil and scrap metal embargo. Why should GB care what Japan does in China as long as their Opium business is still going strong?
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May 26, 2015 20:32
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Riso posted:Please tell me the reason for Japan to wage war against GB and France without a US oil and scrap metal embargo. Why should GB care what Japan does in China as long as their Opium business is still going strong? In order to make an interesting scenario for your war game? I dunno, just a thought.  Edit: I'm not saying Japan absolutely has to be in the Axis in this hypothetical scenario, but something would have to be done to make Asia more interesting than just having a guaranteed Co-Prosperity Sphere.
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May 26, 2015 20:34
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Take the "Japan is loving with our Asian colonial playthings, let's gently caress them up" angle and run with it?
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May 26, 2015 20:35
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Just have a few free agents; the Spanish Civil war can go either way; Russia might cut deals with either France/GB or Germany, with the same applying for Japan. Or hell, even each other; dividing the world between them; Russia taking Europe and Japan Asia. Buffing Africa also sounds cool too.
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May 26, 2015 21:10
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Hopping on the axeil posted:It would be really awesome if HOI4 came with alternate history scenarios like Kaiserreich right out of the box. There's only so many ways to play out WW2 before it gets boring.
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May 26, 2015 22:27
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I'd be willing to meet them half-way. Give us the most solid vanilla experience, but then three months later announce Sunset Invasion II. 
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May 26, 2015 22:34
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Give us the not-C&C Red Alert scenario. Or if you can wangle the rights, give us that.
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May 26, 2015 22:40
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Bort Bortles posted:Hopping on the Well, keep in mind that the National Focus mechanic means that WW2 can play out in lots of different ways. Germany can go after Wunderwaffen, focus on expanding politically, or focus on naval warfare. Then consider that each of seven major powers will also have access to the same mechanics, and you end up with a lot of different paths the war can go down. That said, there's obviously still a finite number of paths, but that's where the mods come in, and Paradox games tend to be pretty moddable.
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May 26, 2015 22:43
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Gort posted:Well, keep in mind that the National Focus mechanic means that WW2 can play out in lots of different ways. Germany can go after Wunderwaffen, focus on expanding politically, or focus on naval warfare. Then consider that each of seven major powers will also have access to the same mechanics, and you end up with a lot of different paths the war can go down. Wasn't there a National Focus for Germany to go democratic? That'd change things up.
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May 26, 2015 22:54
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I hope this is the first version of HOI where alt/rebalanced scenarios are given as DLC to extend the life of the game. There is so much potential for different focuses or even tech developments that are not historical(ish) that you could do a lot with them and not need massive development times.
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May 26, 2015 22:57
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Bort Bortles posted:Hopping on the It's not like WW2 doesn't have replayability though. Any of the majors fit into the scenario significantly differently enough that playing as a different one is not re-fighting the same war.
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May 26, 2015 23:01
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YF-23 posted:It's not like WW2 doesn't have replayability though. Any of the majors fit into the scenario significantly differently enough that playing as a different one is not re-fighting the same war. Yeah I kinda like that HOI is Paradox's take on the classic wargame and I don't expect it to be more than that. It would be cool to see random/alt scenario DLCs, though.
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May 26, 2015 23:05
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Nitrousoxide posted:Without the US there though WW1 would have ended substantially differently. Without the lend/lease support of the US the allies would not have been able to hold out as long as they did, and Russia would have collapsed at lot earlier. With Russia falling maybe a year earlier Germany probably would have crushed Italy and France before they suffered their own collapse. Right the scenario isn't "re-postulate world history assuming the new world didn't exist" so much as just taking your normal WW-2 scenario and jaggedly ripping the US out of the picture 1/1/1936 and nobody asking "hey...wasn't there something over the horizon there before??"
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May 26, 2015 23:07
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I've never played a HOI game, how feasible is it to play as someone that isn't a major power? Can you, even? Like say if I wanted to be uh, Thailand or Brazil or something.
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May 26, 2015 23:07
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Koramei posted:I've never played a HOI game, how feasible is it to play as someone that isn't a major power? Can you, even? Like say if I wanted to be uh, Thailand or Brazil or something. Not really, for the most part and depending upon your start date. You might get a regional war if you push for it, but unless you set the start date back far enough to be able to pump up your IC, you're not gonna have a lot to do or contribute to the main conflict. If you want something with a lot more options, you'd be best off getting Darkest Hour and the Kaiserreich mod. Almost every country has something to do there and it's a whole lot of fun.
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May 26, 2015 23:14
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Koramei posted:I've never played a HOI game, how feasible is it to play as someone that isn't a major power? Can you, even? Like say if I wanted to be uh, Thailand or Brazil or something. Both Argentina and Hungry are two of my favorite nations to play as. You have to play smart and for the long haul but holding the southern front against Russia as Hungry or annexing Brazil as Argentina are challenging and fun.
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May 26, 2015 23:15
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Koramei posted:I've never played a HOI game, how feasible is it to play as someone that isn't a major power? Can you, even? Like say if I wanted to be uh, Thailand or Brazil or something. It can work out. It's not easy though, and unlike the majors you don't have the scenario hand-holding you into the war for world dominance so you have to put a lot more effort in putting yourself in that place with poo poo resources. Medium powers that can be relevant to the war like Spain are a good sweet spot for playing as a non-major, but involving yourself in the primary conflict of WW2 also means you have to pray about the way the majors' AI handles things.
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May 26, 2015 23:17
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Koramei posted:I've never played a HOI game, how feasible is it to play as someone that isn't a major power? Can you, even? Like say if I wanted to be uh, Thailand or Brazil or something. It can be done, but one of the main cool things about games like Hearts of Iron 2 is that they make playing major powers fun while other games might make playing such large countries a chore. Generally speaking the trouble with playing a minor is that you have to play far better to have an impact on the world than you would while playing a minor. Playing Haiti during World War 2 can often just be an exercise in boredom.
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May 26, 2015 23:18
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YF-23 posted:It can work out. It's not easy though, and unlike the majors you don't have the scenario hand-holding you into the war for world dominance so you have to put a lot more effort in putting yourself in that place with poo poo resources. Yeah this is key. I thought "start as a minor, it'll be a soft learning curve", the problem being that there isn't a ton planned for places like Argentina or Thailand to do, so you could end up feeling like this is the most boring game ever. Spain is probably my favorite starter nation- you'll get tossed in to the civil war within the first year, and it's a very basic land war for the most part, and generally pretty winable once you get the basics of combat down (which, to be fair, may take some wiki reading and asking people here). After that I think regardless of which side you picked you can pretty much align yourself to any team. I tried a couple of times to intervene in the Fall of France (to little effect), but you can also side with the Axis and maybe take a few easy targets like Portugal or see if you can help secure Africa and the Middle East from the English. From there I'd suggest doing at least one game as a major. I think France is actually a good choice, but Germany and Italy are very good as majors that expose you to the "main story" as it were and offer you the chance to play with a lot of different systems and strategies. Once you've done a playthrough or two like that, then I think you have not so much the skills but just the context to play as a minor nation. You'll have a sense of what your goals can be, what you can actually hope to build as an army, and so on.
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May 26, 2015 23:28
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