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A Man With A Plan posted:I've mentioned it before, but he's right, sort of on a technicality. The NSA doesn't help American companies/citizens with cyber stuff because it's not their job. All they care about is securing government systems and classified info. The FBI and DHS are the ones that care about domestic stuff. Here's the relevant mission pages from their websites. I'm just asking because he's demonstrably wrong—of course, it's next to impossible to find any of this sort of information because the media isn't interested in reporting on it, and surely most of it is classified. I'm also curious why you think that "National Manager for National Security Systems" does not include assisting domestic entities? Keeping in mind that this is the intelligence world and everybody does a bit or a bunch of everybody else's jobs.
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Mar 10, 2015 19:28
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Muscle Tracer posted:I'm just asking because he's demonstrably wrong—of course, it's next to impossible to find any of this sort of information because the media isn't interested in reporting on it, and surely most of it is classified. Neat, I didn't know NiagaraFiles had been released to the public. Yes, the NSA makes some cool technology that occasionally gets open-sourced. But they aren't responsible for keeping your average domestic company safe from cyber threats. Regarding that title, that's because National Security Systems means what I said in my post. Government controlled systems that are responsible for classified or military info. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Committee_on_National_Security_Systems posted:...Committee on National Security Systems. The CNSS holds discussions of policy issues, sets national policy, directions, operational procedures, and guidance for the information systems operated by the U.S. Government, its contractors or agents that either contain classified information, involve intelligence activities, involve cryptographic activities related to national security, involve command and control of military forces, involve equipment that is an integral part of a weapon or weapons system(s), or are critical to the direct fulfillment of military or intelligence missions.
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Mar 10, 2015 19:43
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Also in case anyone hasn't seen it, the blog http://icontherecord.tumblr.com/ collects a lot of the official statements about surveillance programs, etc. It's run by the ODNI, but there's not really editorial comment. I thought this http://icontherecord.tumblr.com/ic-budget was neat. Budget appropriations for the IC as a whole, collectively including the NSA, CIA, NGA, NRO and others. It's been about 68 billion for the past couple years. I'm sure there are other sources of money, but even still I would have figured it was higher.
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Mar 10, 2015 20:12
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Wikimedia, Amnesty International, and a few others are suing the NSA over surveillance. Perhaps someone should ask them what their threat model is or something. In other news, about 10% of the Alexa top million sites and about a quarter of all web sites using SSL/TLS are still vulnerable to FREAK, which is a real-world practical MITM attack against SSL/TLS.
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Mar 10, 2015 22:11
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SubG posted:Wikimedia, Amnesty International, and a few others are suing the NSA over surveillance. Perhaps someone should ask them what their threat model is or something. It's going to get immediately thrown out (again) cause good luck showing that you have standing.
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Mar 10, 2015 22:23
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Party Plane Jones posted:It's going to get immediately thrown out (again) cause good luck showing that you have standing. Their hope is that the fact that Wikipedia was explicitly listed as a target in one of the NSA Powerpoints will be enough to establish standing it won't because they can't show damages
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Mar 11, 2015 01:32
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SubG posted:Wikimedia, Amnesty International, and a few others are suing the NSA over surveillance. Perhaps someone should ask them what their threat model is or something. Here's a bunch of Wikifiddlers discussing threat models http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:PRISM#What_wasn.27t_said
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Mar 11, 2015 12:32
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I need your help thread. I watched the citizenfour documentary on the weekend and tried to watch Obama's Selma speech on Monday night. I really had to turn it off after about 5 minutes of hearing Obama talk about how he honours those who stood for and demonstrated for their rights against huge odds.Particularly when he said that the civil rights demonstrators stood up even though their patriotism was questioned and their lives were threatened. The hypocrisy of his speech against the backdrop of all his administration has done to violate peoples' rights to privacy along with the threats his administration has made to the lives of whistleblowers was just too much and I wasn't interested in the rest of the speech. I'm not sure how I feel about the fact that i couldn't make it through the speech. No doubt it was an important moment to commemorate, and I even think Obama would like to believe that he stands for the same things John Lewis did 50 years ago, but in my opinion policy and actions speak louder than words. But is it right to write him off entirely, particularly with regards to race relations and its historical importance, because of what his administration has done to undermine the rights of individuals internationally? I don't think I'm a whiny Internet whitey who wants to make a civil rights anniversary all about her violated rights, but at the same time, all of our rights are being continually violated by the Obama administration. Not sure how to feel about the whole thing. Maybe I should give the speech a second chance?
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Mar 11, 2015 17:41
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Zombywuf posted:Here's a bunch of Wikifiddlers discussing threat models http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:PRISM#What_wasn.27t_said I'm not sure why their concern, per SubG's article, is that the nsa will see some political opposition edit an article from Egypt, then pass that along to the Egyptians. Egypt almost certainly has the same ability to tap cables and compel companies within its own country, let alone that anyone in the same wireless network can see it from the lack of TLS. I think some of the other groups have a more valid complaint, like the international rights groups. I just don't get why they put forth the stupidest example.
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Mar 11, 2015 18:45
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Government surveillance and civil rights are integrally connected; just look at how COINTELPRO and similar programs were used against the black liberation movement. The Obama administration's support for and expansion of the surveillance state while mouthing support for civil rights protesters isn't just hypocritical because the administration's policies violate individual rights, it's actively reinforcing and expanding a system that was used for the repression of the same protesters Obama praises. It's absolutely something that should be pointed out and talked about.
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Mar 11, 2015 18:48
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Zombywuf posted:Here's a bunch of Wikifiddlers discussing threat models http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:PRISM#What_wasn.27t_said A good argument.
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Mar 11, 2015 22:34
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SubG posted:Hm. It seems like most of the discussion is about how enabling encryption by default would be insufficient to protect the privacy of wikipedia and its users, and attempting to do so would probably introduce usability issues for many users. About year and a half after that discussion, wikimedia pursues legal action against the legitimacy of NSA surveillance instead of pretending that encryption will protect themselves from it. And in the meantime, there is no http to https redirect. A trivial thing they could have easily done which would at least put a damper on any non five eyes country from spying on civilians.
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Mar 12, 2015 12:48
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https://firstlook.org/theintercept/2015/03/12/fbi-appeared-use-informant-track-black-lives-matter-protest/ Why Was an FBI Joint Terrorism Task Force Tracking a Black Lives Matter Protest? Members of an FBI Joint Terrorism Task Force tracked the time and location of a Black Lives Matter protest last December at the Mall of America in Bloomington, Minnesota, email obtained by The Intercept shows. The email from David S. Langfellow, a St. Paul police officer and member of an FBI Joint Terrorism Task Force, informs a fellow task force member from the Bloomington police that “CHS just confirmed the MOA protest I was taking to you about today, for the 20th of DEC @ 1400 hours.” CHS is a law enforcement acronym for “confidential human source.” Jeffrey VanNest, an FBI special agent and Joint Terrorism Task Force supervisor at the FBI’s Minneapolis office, was CC’d on the email. The FBI’s Joint Terrorism Task Forces are based in 104 U.S. cities and are made up of approximately 4,000 federal, state and local law enforcement officials. The FBI characterizes them as “our nation’s front line on terrorism.”
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Mar 13, 2015 17:17
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Tezzor posted:https://firstlook.org/theintercept/2015/03/12/fbi-appeared-use-informant-track-black-lives-matter-protest/ The FBI has already denied having any interest in the campaign. Take that for what it's worth.
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Mar 13, 2015 17:26
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Zombywuf posted:And in the meantime, there is no http to https redirect. A trivial thing they could have easily done which would at least put a damper on any non five eyes country from spying on civilians.
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Mar 14, 2015 05:50
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LookingGodIntheEye posted:But the problem is that everyone outside the NSA is, directly or indirectly, an enemy of the NSA. By weakening the state of internet security in the US and across the world, the NSA acts as a detriment to everyone. Combine this with the NSA's highly inefficient "grab everything and then look later" MO and the NSA ultimately causes a lot of harm and returns little in terms of actual safeguarding national security for our citizens and companies. And this is really symptomatic of a greater governmental national security and military apparatus that is self-serving and antagonistic towards and undermines its own country and people. I do hope you understand that every major country is currently seeking to undermine every other country's security, and as such removing the NSA would do nothing to lessen that. Too often people seem to speak as if the NSA operates in some sort of vaccuum.
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Mar 14, 2015 23:50
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If you watched Last Week Tonight the other week, you will not be surprised to learn that 2/3rds of Americans view Snowden unfavorably and only 8% have a very positive opinion.
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Apr 22, 2015 04:56
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Not-really-but-maybe related to the topic: Princeton study shows that america is no longer a democracy (but shows characteristics of an oligarchy that have been increasing over the last few decades). And here an interview with the researchers in which they explain in more detail what they are saying: Interview quote:Given your findings, what do you make of the great sense of persecution that people at the top appear to feel in recent years? Is there a phenomenon you came by that speaks to this, and does that perpetuate the cycle of policy moving in their direction? Nektu fucked around with this message at 20:31 on Apr 26, 2015 |
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Apr 26, 2015 20:28
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Another high US appeals court has had the temerity to break with the law-school Obamatar consensus that the NSA's activities are legal. Discussion question: Why are they so deranged?
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May 7, 2015 15:58
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The ruling specifically points to Snowden as a positive in this ruling, which I'm sure will piss a lot of people off
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May 7, 2015 16:58
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The situation in Germany has been intensifying steadily since the latest revelations and the Bundestag is now openly calling the federal chancellery to reveal the NSA's keyword list which is obviously something the Americans don't want to happen.
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May 10, 2015 13:16
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"It would severely impact national security."
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May 11, 2015 13:55
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Wyden has vowed to filibuster McConnell's no-strings-attached blanket PATRIOT Act extension if it retains bulk collection authority.
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May 11, 2015 21:29
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http://www.wired.com/2015/05/house-passes-usa-freedom-act/quote:In a landslide move today, the House voted to pass the USA Freedom Act, which would effectively shut down portions of the NSA’s controversial domestic spying program in their current form. A nice if ultimately meaningless move, as we've seen the telecoms can be impelled to open up their records en masse according to secret warrants by kangaroo courts. Tezzor fucked around with this message at 00:39 on May 14, 2015 |
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May 14, 2015 00:37
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Yeah, if anything the Snowden leaks made it pretty drat clear that the FISA courts have become a pointless rubber stamp of 'oversight' that the NSA has used to justify its supposed legality.
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May 14, 2015 00:54
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Not to mention that this is a drop in the bucket of what they are actually collecting. This doesn't cover their mass collection of actual content, this is just the one piece of phone data. The texts, emails, internet activity, etc is all still a free for all. Also, who names these loving bills?
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May 14, 2015 00:58
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Even as the Senate remains at an impasse over the future of US domestic surveillance powers, the National Security Agency will be legally unable to collect US phone records in bulk by the time Congress returns from its Memorial Day vacation. The administration, as suggested in a memo it sent Congress on Wednesday, declined to ask a secret surveillance court for another 90-day extension of the order necessary to collect US phone metadata in bulk. The filing deadline was Friday, hours before the Senate failed to come to terms on a bill that would have formally repealed the NSA domestic surveillance program. “We did not file an application for reauthorization,” an administration official confirmed to the Guardian on Saturday.
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May 24, 2015 19:57
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Honj Steak posted:The situation in Germany has been intensifying steadily since the latest revelations and the Bundestag is now openly calling the federal chancellery to reveal the NSA's keyword list which is obviously something the Americans don't want to happen. I'm sure many Germans already own an English dictionary.
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May 27, 2015 01:07
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Uh huh, I'm sure the secret FISA court didn't secretly rule that the mass collection can continue so long as there is a potential danger of terrorist attacks within the United States; and the only way to know if such a threat exists is to continue collection. If anyone doubts this line of reasoning, just visit the drug legalization thread.
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May 27, 2015 02:38
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quote:“This is a matter of national security,” Obama said in his weekly address. “We shouldn’t surrender the tools that help keep us safe. It would be irresponsible. It would be reckless.” You see, it's much like the problem with gun crime in this country: We created and distributed tools of destruction to people who would use them against us, so we have to make sure every police unit has at least one AR-15 in the trunk.
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May 31, 2015 00:38
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Six hours until the Patriot Act provisions expire.
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May 31, 2015 23:02
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More White Noise posted:Six hours until the Patriot Act provisions expire.
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Jun 1, 2015 04:37
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Everyone call al-Qaeda at 12:01!
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Jun 1, 2015 04:56
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Nintendo Kid posted:I do hope you understand that every major country is currently seeking to undermine every other country's security, and as such removing the NSA would do nothing to lessen that. And that's the real problem of it all - institutions like the NSA are divorced and insulated from the people they ostensibly protect, and fall into the same old fallacy of thinking that serving their interests serves the people at large, and that they can decide for the people without their consent. America Inc. fucked around with this message at 05:20 on Jun 1, 2015 |
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Jun 1, 2015 05:16
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Remember that the 9/11 hijackers could have been discovered but agencies decided not to share information. Now we're going to have too much information and probably miss another attack.
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Jun 1, 2015 17:31
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Salon is just the worst.quote:Perhaps to those like Sen. Rand Paul who’ve never had to fight assumptions based on one’s ethnicity or the color of one’s skin, the thought of cell phone data being pooled and analyzed is disconcerting. However, as someone who regularly puts up with extra scrutiny, whether it’s at an airport or a shopping mall, I welcome the leveling of the playing field that bulk data collection brings. I urge our government not to follow the Russian method of profiling, but, instead, to use bulk data collection to arrive at objective analyses. 
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Jun 2, 2015 00:35
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Elotana posted:Salon is just the worst. But you see, a Republican is nominally against it and "leading" the charge. That sure does seem to be how these issues boil down to for a disconcerting number of people. Have Snowden leak with Bush as President, and we would've heard a vastly different tone from so many. And yeah, as if the NSA collecting whatever it possibly can is going to make things better for anyone, let alone those subject to extra scrutiny.
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Jun 2, 2015 01:05
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hobotrashcanfires posted:But you see, a Republican is nominally against it and "leading" the charge. That sure does seem to be how these issues boil down to for a disconcerting number of people. Have Snowden leak with Bush as President, and we would've heard a vastly different tone from so many. We did have leaks about NSA spying stuff, ECHELON and other such things during the Clinton and Bush administrations. Just like has happened again, most people stopped caring, if they ever cared, rather shortly after.
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Jun 2, 2015 01:23
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hobotrashcanfires posted:But you see, a Republican is nominally against it and "leading" the charge. That sure does seem to be how these issues boil down to for a disconcerting number of people. Have Snowden leak with Bush as President, and we would've heard a vastly different tone from so many. Remember when the Bush administration got caught colluding with the telecoms to engage in illegal warrantless wiretapping? Clearly not, despite the fact that it was a pretty big deal at the time - especially when Congress (including a certain Senator from Illinois) voted to retroactively legalize it and provide everyone involved immunity from prosecution. Nothing new under the sun, and all that.
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Jun 2, 2015 01:56
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Main Paineframe posted:Remember when the Bush administration got caught colluding with the telecoms to engage in illegal warrantless wiretapping? Clearly not, despite the fact that it was a pretty big deal at the time - especially when Congress (including a certain Senator from Illinois) voted to retroactively legalize it and provide everyone involved immunity from prosecution. Nothing new under the sun, and all that. I actually do recall that, and you're kinda missing my point entirely. I suppose it would have been better illustrated by pointing to such examples to highlight the discrepancy. Publications such as Salon then, would've been far more likely to be critical of these sorts of things (and I believe when Greenwald was writing for them was). Would you ever have imagined seeing a headline such as "What if Rand Paul were Muslim? The white, privileged assumptions behind his Patriot Act “principles”" from something like Salon 10 years ago? Sure, Rand Paul is worthy of his fair share of derision, but that article is as much of a joke as he is. Do a quick search for Washington Times and Patriot Act, glance at the stories they're putting out now, which they never would've done back then. Still, sure, nothing new under the sun, but it's ridiculous how widely many opinions swing depending on who they support and who's in power. Anyhow, I hope it's clearer what I meant now.
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Jun 2, 2015 15:14
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