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thrawn527 posted:When I read Vector Prime, I had no idea who Nom Anor was. But it was clear I was meant to. Turns out he turned up in the Crimson Empire comic series? Ugh. I was in high-school when that came out and I never got that impression. He was supposed to be a new character and undercover alien spy. Vector Prime was a good book, most of the rest that followed didn't live up to that level. That whole series was just wayyy too long. I never finished it, and couldn't stomach the fact that there was another gigantic one after it. I'm super happy about the reset now. I wasn't when I heard about it, but the EU got so big it needed it. Just started reading A new Dawn, seems cool from the first couple chapters.
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Jun 11, 2015 17:43
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Casimir Radon posted:The unified canon makes things a lot less messy than comics, which I like. It really doesn't though. Comics can go "this thing didn't happen" and be done with it. Trying to do a unified canon means you need to explain a looooot of bullshit from terrible authors.Sometimes you can make that work, like Zahn's attempt to recontextualize all the stupidity of the EU as "man, Luke was a lovely teacher because he tried to be a weapon instead of a Jedi" but more often than not it's messier than any retcon.
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Jun 11, 2015 17:43
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Also, saying you have a fixed canon is no guarantee that new stuff isn't going to retcon what came before. See: Vegere.
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Jun 11, 2015 18:30
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Man the dude doing Blue Milk Special really likes crossovers.
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Jun 11, 2015 19:15
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SirPhoebos posted:Also, saying you have a fixed canon is no guarantee that new stuff isn't going to retcon what came before. See: Vegere. Ideally that kind of stuff is what the story group is going to be preventing. The old EU, especially the early stuff, didn't have a whole lot of oversight, so there were a lot of inconsistencies resulting from authors not knowing about other sources or not knowing that they were supposed to hold to a unified story.
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Jun 11, 2015 19:49
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Vergere was one of the two or three most interesting things about the NJO so if the story group is supposed to prevent that thanks for proving our point I guess
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Jun 12, 2015 14:14
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It kind of seems like a wash. Canon will be more dictated by the whims of a stable of screenwriters (but notably, not George Lucas so there's your upside) pulling a bunch of hack screenwriter tricks and less by a bunch of SF writers with their hacky bullshit.ecureuilmatrix posted:story is "just a tale" (like that Antilles-Janson sob story I'm not sure what this is? You just mean the xwing books generally? yronic heroism fucked around with this message at 19:56 on Jun 12, 2015 |
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Jun 12, 2015 19:28
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yronic heroism posted:It kind of seems like a wash. Canon will be more dictated by the whims of a stable of screenwriters (but notably, not George Lucas so there's your upside) pulling a bunch of hack screenwriter tricks and less by a bunch of SF writers with their hanky bullshit. I think that in one of the early Marvel comics, Wes Janson died on Hoth, which was later retconned as Wedge telling a tall tale.
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Jun 12, 2015 19:49
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Beardless posted:I think that in one of the early Marvel comics, Wes Janson died on Hoth, which was later retconned as Wedge telling a tall tale. Oh, Wedge, always telling "tall tales" about his friends dying. Hilarious.
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Jun 12, 2015 20:02
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Saying "That's not canon" is so much easier.
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Jun 12, 2015 20:22
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In the novelization of The Empire Strikes Back, Hobbie crashed his crippled snowspeeder into an AT-AT. He did not survive. Naturally, he survived in the EU.
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Jun 12, 2015 20:54
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Strobe posted:Vergere was one of the two or three most interesting things about the NJO so if the story group is supposed to prevent that thanks for proving our point I guess I think what he meant was that the Story Group, had it existed when NJO and its followups were being published, would have established that "this is a weird alien with genuinely cool and unique views of the Force" and not let later authors retcon that into "oh wait no she was actually a Sith all along because what is this nuance thing you speak of" like LotF did. The Legacy comics also fell in that trap, which is a shame, because it would have been cool if the same weird Force philosophy had spawned both Jacen Solo, Hero of the Galaxy, and Darth Krayt, Space Hitler. This is assuming LotF never existed of course.
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Jun 13, 2015 20:33
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ninjahedgehog posted:I think what he meant was that the Story Group, had it existed when NJO and its followups were being published, would have established that "this is a weird alien with genuinely cool and unique views of the Force" and not let later authors retcon that into "oh wait no she was actually a Sith all along because what is this nuance thing you speak of" like LotF did. But again, the people in the story group are the same people who were supposedly keeping track of continuity and canon in the old system, too.
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Jun 13, 2015 21:05
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Chairman Capone posted:But again, the people in the story group are the same people who were supposedly keeping track of continuity and canon in the old system, too. Yeah, but they weren't specifically tasked with maintaining a unified continuity. The old system had the tiers, with films trumping everything and the like.
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Jun 13, 2015 21:39
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jivjov posted:Yeah, but they weren't specifically tasked with maintaining a unified continuity. The old system had the tiers, with films trumping everything and the like. But that has nothing to do with it, because they let Denning and Traviss ignore or deliberately overwrite stuff from previous books and comics, which were supposedly at the same continuity level. Denning even explicitly said he didn't view the Legacy comics as part of continuity and worked to undermine them and no one at Lucasfilm tried to step in and stop him.
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Jun 13, 2015 21:49
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Chairman Capone posted:But that has nothing to do with it, because they let Denning and Traviss ignore or deliberately overwrite stuff from previous books and comics, which were supposedly at the same continuity level. Denning even explicitly said he didn't view the Legacy comics as part of continuity and worked to undermine them and no one at Lucasfilm tried to step in and stop him. And now the Story Group has the explicit authority to stop said things. Before Leland Chee's role was advisory and reactionary. "here's some info, and here's how we're making these two things fit together after the fact" Now he's part of the group that explicitly is keeping everything on track.
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Jun 13, 2015 21:57
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The Story group is the thing responsible for Sheev right? In theory I like the idea of novels set in the same universe holding tight continuity with each other. If they release a sequel to New Dawn i'll read it but aside from that and Dark disciple (at least the summary) none of the current books have grabbed me. I imagine the novels set between the ROTJ and force awakens will be interesting. But on the other hand, Sheev.
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Jun 13, 2015 22:50
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MrFlibble posted:The Story group is the thing responsible for Sheev right?
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Jun 13, 2015 22:59
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Depends on how you want to define "responsible". I would presume the name was Luceno's idea...but the Story Group OK'd it.
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Jun 13, 2015 23:18
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jivjov posted:...but the Story Group OK'd it. Well that bodes well.
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Jun 13, 2015 23:20
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OctoberCountry posted:Well that bodes well. Its a name. 'Sheev' isn't any more inherently ridiculous than 'Lando', 'Chewbacca', 'Jar-Jar' or 'Padme'
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Jun 13, 2015 23:24
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He is Augustus Palpatine in my own personal head canon. Sheev is silly.
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Jun 13, 2015 23:25
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jivjov posted:Its a name. 'Sheev' isn't any more inherently ridiculous than 'Lando', 'Chewbacca', 'Jar-Jar' or 'Padme' So you'd be cool with the biggest villain in Star Wars being named Jar Jar Palpatine?
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Jun 13, 2015 23:28
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OctoberCountry posted:So you'd be cool with the biggest villain in Star Wars being named Jar Jar Palpatine? Sure. Again, its just a name. If there was no Jar-Jar Binks, and instead we had Jar-Jar Palpatine, it'd be fine. If there was still Binks, and then Jar-Jar was ALSO Palpatine's first name...that'd be a little weird.
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Jun 13, 2015 23:33
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Sheev, Jar Jar, and Padme are all dumb. Lando is dumb too, but it's better than Sheev. It's ok for Star Wars names to be silly, but being evocative is good too. Han Solo's name tells you a lot about who he is, same with Luke Skywalker or Darth Vader. Obi-wan is mysterious, Chewbacca sounds alien; Sheev tells me nothing about Palpatine other than he has a dumb name. Palpatine sounds vaguely Roman, imperial, strong. Sheev sounds like a brand of toilet cleaner.
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Jun 13, 2015 23:39
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FishFood posted:Sheev, Jar Jar, and Padme are all dumb. Lando is dumb too, but it's better than Sheev. It's ok for Star Wars names to be silly, but being evocative is good too. Han Solo's name tells you a lot about who he is, same with Luke Skywalker or Darth Vader. Obi-wan is mysterious, Chewbacca sounds alien; Sheev tells me nothing about Palpatine other than he has a dumb name. Palpatine sounds vaguely Roman, imperial, strong. Sheev sounds like a brand of toilet cleaner. To be fair, I did prefer the name explanation from the now-Legends Darth Plagueis novel. But yeah, Sheev doesn't bother me one way or the other, especially because nobody is really going around calling him that on a regular basis.
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Jun 13, 2015 23:52
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jivjov posted:To be fair, I did prefer the name explanation from the now-Legends Darth Plagueis novel. But yeah, Sheev doesn't bother me one way or the other, especially because nobody is really going around calling him that on a regular basis. Wookiepedia says he stopped using his first name out of spite and wished to kill his father. My dad named me Sheev I'd probably act the same.
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Jun 14, 2015 01:06
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His name always should've been "Cos Dashit" because then we could have jokes about how the Emperor caused a poo poo. Was "Cos Dashit" a SuperShadow thing or was that older fan lore? Is SuperShadow still even a thing?
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Jun 14, 2015 02:00
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MrFlibble posted:Wookiepedia says he stopped using his first name out of spite and wished to kill his father. My dad named me Sheev I'd probably act the same. That scene is from the Darth Plagueis novel, before he was officially named Sheev. It was Luceno's way of getting around the fact that nobody knew his first name.
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Jun 14, 2015 16:44
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jivjov posted:Sure. Again, its just a name. If there was no Jar-Jar Binks, and instead we had Jar-Jar Palpatine, it'd be fine. If there was still Binks, and then Jar-Jar was ALSO Palpatine's first name...that'd be a little weird. As has been pointed out earlier, names can mean something. Palpatine sound Roman (Palatine is one of the seven hills of Rome). Sheev sounds like Steve, which is run of the mill and boring. It's like silly jokes about Bob Fett, from accounting. It should have been equally as Roman, or at least as strong sounding. It's not a big deal. But it is a dumb choice.
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Jun 14, 2015 16:50
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Dave Syndrome posted:That scene is from the Darth Plagueis novel, before he was officially named Sheev. It was Luceno's way of getting around the fact that nobody knew his first name. It did managed to wink and nod at the old "Cos Palpatine" rumor. His dad was named Cosinga.
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Jun 14, 2015 17:15
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Dave Syndrome posted:That scene is from the Darth Plagueis novel, before he was officially named Sheev. It was Luceno's way of getting around the fact that nobody knew his first name. Oh I know that. Just saying in retrospect it makes sense. Sheev. It sounds like the star wars equivalent of steve. Steve Palpatine.
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Jun 14, 2015 17:24
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MrFlibble posted:Oh I know that. Just saying in retrospect it makes sense. I liked it better when the front-running possibility was "Frank".
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Jun 14, 2015 17:35
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MrFlibble posted:Sheev. It sounds like the star wars equivalent of steve. Steve Palpatine. It is a little bit like the fourteenth book in a fantasy series where the author's lost interest and uses "real" names with the consonants changed around (like, I think there's one guy in like the tenth Wheel of Time book called "Charlz"). "Sheev" doesn't really bother me, but I kind of wish he had a "real" name, sort of like Luke and Ben. Not suggesting he actually should have been "Steven Palpatine" or "James Palpatine" or whatever, but as others have said, they could've named him after a Roman emperor. Heliogabalus Palpatine Wheat Loaf fucked around with this message at 18:30 on Jun 14, 2015 |
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Jun 14, 2015 18:26
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'Sheev' sounds like something that happens to you in prison if you step in front of someone in the lunch line. All of this talk of names made me wonder--again--why Obi-Wan wouldn't have at least changed Luke's last name when he dumped him on Tatooine. Taking a hit on that Wisdom roll there, Kenobi.
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Jun 14, 2015 18:51
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Luke Lars was not a name Obi Wan felt he could live up to.
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Jun 14, 2015 22:38
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Robot Wendigo posted:'Sheev' sounds like something that happens to you in prison if you step in front of someone in the lunch line. Nero Palpatine would of worked, if a bit on the nose. As for Luke, Obi-wan was using the idea of hiding-in-plain-sight combined with the historically successful so-dumb-no-one-would-ever-do-it [the Nazi's did the latter a lot and somehow it would work].
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Jun 15, 2015 05:35
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SeanBeansShako posted:He is Augustus Palpatine in my own personal head canon. You mean Gaius Julius Caesar ("Augustus'" real name after the posthumus adoption, and the one he really used all his life) or Gaius Octavius the birth name he had before or Imperator Caesar Divi Filius Augustus which was more of an title than a name used?  Meaning that names can be complicated and the best for them would have been to simply never mention any at all. thrawn527 posted:As has been pointed out earlier, names can mean something. Palpatine sound Roman (Palatine is one of the seven hills of Rome). Which might have meant sky hill. The word we get palace and paladin from, through the curvy road of history and language. Palaptine in the end is a made up name, no less than Sheev, just sounding less stupid because we're used to it for decades now (and it does sound cool).
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Jun 15, 2015 13:43
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Just Augustus. It sounds like the frigging name a space emperor should have! The root problem with Sheev it doesn't sound cool. Neither does the stupid name they picked for Obi-Wan's planet. What irritates me and a lot of us is how effortless it all is.
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Jun 15, 2015 14:56
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Maybe Han lied when he said he visited his parents but he was really in a sabaac tournament.
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Jun 15, 2015 16:07
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